https://southfront.org/russian-liberal-medias-foreign-sponsors/
The hysteria concerning the alleged Russian “interference” in the US presidential election appears to be a mirror projection of techniques that have been used against Russia, with little or no success, with the aim of interfering in its political processes.
While the propaganda campaign aimed at Russia has sought to foster the impression that the country’s media is strictly controlled, in actuality the “liberal opposition” newspapers and radio stations have in the past run articles and stories that, due to their nature, would be unthinkable in the “free” West. Controversial stories over the last few years have included:
- Allegations Russian Ground Forces units are operating on the Donbass and suffering hundreds of fatalities which were being covered up by the Russian government. By comparison, it is unheard of for any Western media outlet to run stories asserting the US or NATO military is in combat in contradiction of official government statements.
- Endorsing the Maidan coup in Ukraine that not only brought down a democratically elected president but also de-facto destroyed the country’s political system and economy. By contrast, US media are unanimous in their criticism of any government in Latin America which is not subservient to Washington, even when its policies serve the people of that country, as in the case of Cuba.
- Repeatedly and consistently referring to the civil war in Ukraine as a “Russian invasion” or “Russian aggression”. Again, no NATO military operation, no matter how unlawful, will ever be described in a “free” Western press as an act of aggression.
- Articles and opinion pieces asserting the Russian government is directly responsible for the shoot-down of Flight MH17 over Novorossia, and that such action is a crime against humanity which warrants prosecution at the Hague. It is as if Western media were consistently running stories arguing Fight MH370, which went missing over the Indian Ocean, was shot down by the US Navy which then covered up the incident.
- Claims that Russian operations in support and at the behest of the legitimate government in Syria likewise represent crimes against humanity, while supporting the jihadists.
- An “investigation” of the 1999 terrorist attacks that cost the lives of several hundred Russian citizens in three cities that concluded the apartment houses were blown up by the FSB. It is as if New York Times’ investigation of 9/11 terrorist attacks concluded it was a CIA plot.
These media outlets’ main audience is not the Russian public but rather Western funders and supporters. Novaya Gazeta funding sources include the Netherlands and the Soros Foundation. The Dozhd TV Channel financing is opaque–its owners claim they are financing the project using own funds, which must be bottomless considering the channel has not turned a profit since it began operating. Ekho Moskvy is receiving financial support from the Voice of America Broadcasting Board of Governors, which is also supporting other “liberal” news outlets. These and other Russian media outlets figure prominently in the Fiscal Year 2017 proposed federal budget appropriation for the US State Department. Moreover, journalists working for these outlets have received a broad array of awards for journalism issued by a number of Western governments and West-controlled so-called non-governmental organizations.
Another example of a Internet media outlet created in order to push the “pro-liberal” agenda is Meduza. It was financed by opposition oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovskiy and so-called “anonymous investors.” In spite of Meduza being registered and based in Latvia, it focuses on the Russian audience and is promoting globalist agenda in Russia.
In addition to resources which are openly promoting anti-Russian propaganda, there is an array of major media outlets whose informational policy demonstrates they are pursuing political goals quite divorced from Russia’s interests as a sovereign state.
In the meantime, genuinely accomplished investigative journalists such as Julian Assange are facing politically motivated prosecutions, and there are efforts to exclude English-language Russia-based media such as RT and Sputnik from Western markets for allegedly “spreading propaganda.”
This state of affairs also raises the question why is the Russian government tolerant of media beholden to foreign sponsors. Part of the answer lies with the guarantees of the freedom of speech and press contained in the Russian Constitution, though the support of these outlets by important factions of the economic and political elite also plays a role–the Ekho Moskvy radio station is part of the Gazprom Media Holding, for example. Ultimately, however, the relatively unfettered existence of these media is a reflection of the Russian government’s confidence in its policies and its popular support, in sharp contrast to the panicked “fake news” reaction to the loss of Hillary Clinton that resulted in widespread calls to limit the freedom of speech in Western countries, lest the “wrong” candidates win elections.
Still, this is an intolerable state of affairs, a leftover from the 1990s era of Russia’s political and economic weakness, when it seemed it might become nothing more than a politically impotent supplier of raw materials to the West. Any genuine “reset” of Russia-West relations will require the West to respect the inviolability of Russia’s political institutions and processes in the same way that the West demands respect for theirs.
It is shocking and disgusting that Russia permits those organizations to receive foreign “enemy” state and private funding. And if part of the elite inside Russia are aiding that foreign subversion. They need to be “removed” (i.e. Gazprom). Russia doesn’t have time for 5th column traitors to be allowed to undermine the government. Their elite needs the same treatment given to overarching Chinese billionaires that challenge the government. Hopefully the current government in Russia can “finally” at some point soon, furnish up the “will” to do something about that “before” it becomes too late. We’ve seen countless cases of how “small spots” untreated end up becoming full blown cancer.
Uncle Bob 1,
Your view is largely shared by the Russian public, but only at an emotional level. Once the discussion goes a bit deeper, many people start to agree with Vladimir Putin who has challenged this view in many interviews and suggested that any prohibition only makes a point of view seem more attractive. He is right. We have been fooled with this trick of “forbidden fruit” in the Soviet Union, when all the foreign radio stations were suppressed, and it seemed that they must have been telling the truth. But when you allow these people to express their view in the open, everyone begins to see them for what they are. And this is exactly what has happened lately. Once you start listening to these “opposition” morons, who are given a lot of time on TV, they become so hard to stomach, that their support fall to single percentage points. They are their own worst enemies.
@ Russian Heart
I can see your point of view; and also Uncle Bob’s, whom you believe to speak from his heart, not from his head.
Your understanding is that propaganda by the western media and governments against Russia is self-defeating because people are sophisticated enough to see the lies. Are they though?
Mind manipulation or manufacturing perception are very sophisticated techniques used in propaganda as well as advertising because, contrary to your beliefs, they work. Just look at the US example where cultural conditioning shapes people’s perception of reality; or Western Europe, supposedly more cosmopolitan, cultured and progressive, were constant feeding of propaganda is changing people’s opinion against Russia.
Maybe the Russian people are inured to that kind of propaganda because they have a point of reference in their recent Soviet past against which they can evaluate the lies of Western sponsored outlets. But the Western people did not have that benefit, all they know is the same diet of blatant lies and hidden truths.
In my opinion, people in W Europe have a lower opinion of Russia now than they had of the Soviet Union when the propaganda of the cold war was in full swing.
I suspect that these moronic opinions are countered with truths. The Russian public might not be that sophisticated, but I doubt that they don’t realize that the anti-Russian shrieks of the ‘opposition’ toilet papers is foreign propaganda, pushing themes that do not really resonate with what Russians really think and feel. I think that they are not really prepared to accept it at face value (helped by the cynicism acquired during Soviet times).
The Western audience is more anti-Russian today because they are unconsciously prepared for centuries to accept the stereotypes. The American audience doesn’t matter, it doesn’t lack only sophistication but common sense altogether. The American mass has been brought to a dangerous level of ignorance.
That laissez-faire approach didn’t work out so well in the Ukraine, did it? For that matter, the idea that many argue is that Ukrainians will wake up and move away from their Russophobia. Will they? My bet is they will just feel that Poroshenko was a Russian tool.
Western PR and mind-control technologies are far superior to what the USSR used. For that matter, a lot of the engineers in the USSR train were obviously trying to crash the train to steal the gold.
In addition, there is the issue of NGOs and other pro-Western influences. If you think Moscow should show a humane attitude by allowing Mormon missionaries, you are very optimistic.
Porky is on his last legs and clearly the average non-psycho Ukie sees through the Western propaganda.
But are they willing to die to prove it? No, of course not – most of them aren’t.
Because this utter human garbage (5th column) is so deeply integrated – it is like an ingrown parasite. If you cut it out to quickly, it might take some vital organs with them. These creatures should be slowly starved, neutralized and then buried in some ritualistic matter far, far away from real humanity.
That was a response to Uncle Bob1
“let a thousand flowers bloom together” was a tactic that Mao used in the 50’s, I believe.
So What?
Well, the idea is that the State encourages a period a free speech and liberalisation, within limits – but the limits are, more or less, secret…. The State notes down the radicals, very quietly – notes the people who form or would form, a 5th column…also examines the chatter for good ideas, but that’s simple economy.
Are y’all startin’ the get it?
I would not fret – Comrade President has got the simple stuff down cold…there’ll be a time when those people find themselves unable to do harm. Let us hope that’s pleasant and pacific, but it must happen, so there must be lists.
Southfront or any(!)body should start to translate some of the many german Anti-GEZ Videos. I mentioned it a number of times over the years but nobody cares.
In Germany (and other countries like Austria) folks even have to pay for this absurd Soros/NATO/Russia-bashing warmongering propaganda, even if you don’t even own a TV set.
Refusers were already sent into jail, while many of the real criminals are being set on free foot.
The german police behaves more and more like SS troups to make innocent non-payers pay.
More than about 4 million (!) household in Germany are currently believed to refuse payment. It is a totally illegal network of fake laws that were invented to claim that people have to pay. I cannot explain it in 5 sentences. Entire books have been written about it.
If you understand german, listen to alternative bloggers to get a glimpse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxBESMD_sBE
I say it again: Germany is not a souvereign nation by any means.
It is a USA led continuation of the 3.Reich (even though pretending to be a democratic wonderland). Everything – including the courts, parliament, administrations, cities, Germany itself(!) has secretly been privatized since 1990.
For more evidence see https://staatenlos.info/ and in the upper left corner choose English or your language of choice.
In the past nobody was ever interested in the subject.
It is a hot topic.
Germany has no peace treaty with 54 nations and WW2 never ended, it is a frozen (and here and there hot) conflict. Moscow has the full right to move its troops back here. It would be a relief and long overdue. But under international right Russia could legally just do that today.
Entire months later we can start discussing the poisonous trash media that pollute Russia. But there are simply more urgent topics.
Read the UN charter. You’ll be surprised as to Germany ‘s legal status
@ Kfeto
What I understand from your comment is that Germany is not a sovereign state because its de jure personality derives from an international treaty. So, you confirm Kirov’s contention that Germany is not a sovereign state. There are some states the existence of which is subordinated to an outside power (say Cyprus) and there are many more whose sovereignty is debatable (say Japan, Australia, Canada and other former British colonies) because their independence as a sovereign nation did not arise from the people as an act of self-determination; rather, their statehood was imposed by an outside power.
Germany is still subject to treaties and conventions by outside powers (e.g. NATO de facto occupation) therefore it is not a sovereign state.
Worse than that: It entirely lost most parts of what defines statehood, be it sovereign or not.
It becomes more clear by the year that the Federal Republic of Germany has been turned into a network of privatized businesses(!), having lost its character as a “statehoodly nation state”.
If you don’t trust international trade registers (where exactly each and every “government agency” (including tax offices, courts, police) are liasted as businesses/companies, just monitor all the changes that happened to the imprints and laws since 1990.
How can it be, that each and every part of the pretended state apparatus behaves like a private biz?
How then can it be, that the so called government of the so called Federal Republic of Germany officially states, that the German Empire did not cease to exist in 1945, but that it continues to exist and is identical to the Federal Republic of Germany?
https://deutsch.rt.com/inland/25272-bundesregierung-deutsches-reich-existiert-weiter/
Read here in the Bundestag’s (german parliament’s) own homepage:
https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/2015_06/-/380964
The entire subject is just crazy.
Comrade brother Doctor Dugin has taken the trouble to address the matter of German Souveränität .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQWCFYYR55s
Alexander Dugin: Ohne Rebellion keine Souveränität
More generally, In a genuine “democracy” – that is, as country wherein the vast open class of ordinary people experience eleutheria (better look that up -it’s complicated, but worth the effort!). Voting does not define this state…but it happens there… In a genuine democracy you simply can’t get enough differential social displacement or distortion in the social fabric to get a rebellion started. That is the people are already sovereign,,,so nothing much happens. They go to work, build stuff, have babies…normal stuff – and maybe keep their small arms handy…handy but unused – like Switzerland, sorta – for an example.
Similarly, in Germany, there is not eleutheria, no genuine democracy – and there the people shall, in the fullness of time follow the arc of their history, and kick out the occupying forces.
Dugin’s dictum is addressed to the Germans, but he’s also addressed the Americans…
Some may imagine that there can be no sovereignty without rebellion in Amerika… mightn’t they?
Comrade Genosse,
interesting interview with Prof. Dugin, do you have a link to the original in Russian?
The voice of the speaker is that of Reconquisita Germania.
He brought good things during the 2015 hot phases in Donbass, but he hates Communism and sees Bolsheviki in every cloud on the sky (a bit like certain others here).
But this speaker (of the german summary) now showed a bit too much understanding for german rightwing ideas on his channel during end of 2016 (major disappointment from my pov).
As for Prof. Dugin: All true what he says. But the Americans breached and broke each and every promise they gave Gorbachev. It was all signed under false assumptions and trickery and is hence INvalid.
Therefore the Soviets should take back East-Germany and re-free it.
As far as I know the USSR never perished in a 100% clean way while the RF was created on the basis of laws entirely written by the USA and if it is correct what
I heard the RF still continues to issue the citizenship of the USSR, as there doesn’t appear to be a citizenship of the RF. If somebody knows they details and links to related laws, please post them below.
Answer to myself:
Not what I was looking for, but certainly not too bad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_Russia
For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_of_Russia#Case_of_Fatullaeva_.282007.29
Until 2001-2002, former Soviet citizens could register their permanent residence on the territory of Russia in the same way as Russian citizens.
The federal act regarding Russian citizenship (2002) was amended several times to allow former Soviet citizens who had had their permanent residence registered on July 1, 2002 to apply for Russian citizenship.
…
The Act on the Legal Status of Foreigners in the USSR (1981) was in force until 2002. According to this act, permanent residents of the USSR were persons who received permanent residence permits. Other foreigners were those with temporary residences in the USSR. However, former Soviet citizens did not apply for residence permits; they registered their permanent residence in the same manner as Russian citizens, in accordance with the Decree of Government N 290 of March 12, 1997. Therefore, registration of permanent residence was equivalent to obtaining residence permits in Russia[citation needed].
Also interesting, the RSFSR existed until …. 1991??
Nope, 1993!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Soviet_Federative_Socialist_Republic
The whole thing is a mess.
Somebody should clean it up!
In 1993 people wanted the USSR back and Yeltsin shot them.
After these killings he undemocratically and illegally declared the Soviet System as abolished.
But what about the contradicting dates and events? March 1991 Referendum (majority wanted to maintain the Soviet Union), illegal and unconstitutional outlawing of the KPSS, summer 1991 events, illegal dissolution in December 1991 but then the walking dead Soviet Union somehow still prevailed until 1993.
In 1996 KPRF was leading all polls and was expected to win.
But the USA clearly interfered and “invested” as always (compare this to the Russia versus Trump saga).
Do you now figure why so many self-proclaimed (paid agents?) “russian patriots” are ranting against the Soviet Union?
By restoring it ALL Russian problems would be solved at once.
To prevent this all sorts of conspiracy theories are being spread by the 5.column. And I agree with vot taks hints in that direction
.
The 5th column media mentioned* are marginalized, they don’t have much influence. Letting them rattle on actually provides a pressure relief valve for the zionized dupes and right wing parasites inclined to believe their govno. These people are known to be foreign propaganda assets.
It’s the ones who are not generally known who cause the most damage. The real serious problem in Russian media is much the same in the west, zionazis beholden to israeli interests corrupting media. This infiltration does a lot more damage to Russia, and everyone else, than the obvious shill media do.
*And many not, such as cat motya.
It is not the Zionist it is england which controls most of liar media in the world.
Indeed, as Voltaire said:
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”
Everywhere all the crimes against the world of england are washed up or minimised or off loaded onto other people be it Jews or other Europeans. You never hear the criticism of English barbarity as you hear of Nazi Germany.
Taking pleasure at others misfortune is characteristic of English race and angosaxon who sadly have occupied a high tract of land in the world like 5 evil eyes states and half of middle east.
Re: “To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”
‘To Learn Who Rules Over You’: Viral Voltaire Quote Probably Originated with White Supremacist
“The quote is unanimously attributed to the French polymath Voltaire — who, in fairness, was an aphorism-spouting machine. The problem: there’s no record of Voltaire ever having said it. A Google search of the quote turns up absolutely nothing before 2012. (Smarter minds note the misattribution.) Twitter seems to have discovered it in May of that year.
The closest source to have been located is a 1993 text by white supremacist Kevin Alfred Strom entitled All America Must Know the Terror That is Upon Us. Strom was a co-founder of the West Virginia-based white supremacist organization National Vanguard; he later pled guilty to charges of possession of child pornography and served two years in prison.
Here’s the likely culprit from Strom’s book:
To determine the true rulers of any society, all you must do is ask yourself this question: Who is it that I am not permitted to criticize? We all know who it is that we are not permitted to criticize. We all know who it is that it is a sin to criticize.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/to-learn-who-rules-over-you-viral-voltaire-quote-probably-originated-with-white-supremacist/
According to official US sources there are over 65000 organisations in Russia that are trained and funded by the US empire. That is one for every 2100 citizens. The main goal of this is “to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere … access to vital raw materials”.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/08/world/excerpts-from-pentagon-s-plan-prevent-the-re-emergence-of-a-new-rival.html
“(3)(A) Since 1992, United States Government democratic reform programs and public diplomacy programs, including training, and small grants have provided access to and training in the use of the Internet, brought nearly 40,000 Russian citizens to the United States, and have led to the establishment of more than 65,000 nongovernmental organizations, thousands of independent local media outlets, despite governmental opposition, and numerous political parties.”
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-116/pdf/STATUTE-116-Pg1511.pdf
“As stated in the Russian Democracy Act, “United States Government democratic reform programs… have led to the establishment of more than 65,000 non-governmental organizations… and numerous political parties” (Sec.2(a)(3)(A)). In other words, the U.S. law-makers openly admit that the U.S. Government and American money are behind every fifth out of 300,000 registered NGOs in Russia. The figures are even more impressive than those in Belarus. For every 2,100 citizens of Russia, we’ve got one “public” association “established” and at least partly, if not fully, funded by Washington.”
https://archive.is/1payS
“Russian Opposition Caught Filing into US Embassy in Moscow.”
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.de/2012/05/unbelievable-russian-oppositions-confab.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o95yN1Kw2rU
“why is the Russian government tolerant of media beholden to foreign sponsors”
Key question. It is not that there are no dissenting media in the US, but that they are dwarfed by the corporate media, and state funding of propaganda outlets, and must often exist as independent blogs dependent on readers’ contributions and with no foreign support. They also come under attack by the corporate state, such as the recent ‘fake news’ list at WaPo. How the US corporate state seizes control though money is a major factor here, as with other US policies, such as funding terrorists and coups.
The US has fully weaponized finance.
State funded or corporation funded doesn’t make any difference any more. The only way to get money is through banks beholden to the ZionistWorldOrder. And there are no other banks.
Don’t adhere to their ZWO rules by refusing to disseminate ZWO Fake News only, and your credit line runs out instantly.
These unwritten, never discussed, and therefore not understood ‘laws’ apply not only to media, but to all forms of entrepreneurship.
This not only explains why we not only suffer from fake news, but also from fake food, fake medicine, fake education, fake democracy, fake history, and so on, but also why we struggle so hard to gain a foothold, solid ground to stand upon, from where we can fight back and, in time, turn the tide.
The Jewish Banks are a part, if not the heart, of full-spectrum warfare by the talmudo-satanist Empire.
It seems like Hillary is starting her own “fabulous TV” …Probably another pedophile cover.
With everything that is happening in the US, I believe all this rain of finances that’s been sprayed upon Russian “independent” media might trickle down to a drop in a not so distant future. Russia is stronger now than it ever was since czar Alexander I, and the time when it will be capable to liberate the world from the Talmudic shackles will be witnessed within our generation. There is a big fight ahead and my bet is not on this identity stripped, rotted, child abusing camp known as liberal West.
@southfront @ Uncle Bob 1 @ Anonymous on February 25, 2017 · at 1:35 pm
In my view it is a mistake to brand Dozhd/Echo Mosckvy as 5th column, Whatever is there funding, they have editorial independence and for the most part express their own views shared by their rather small but stable audience in Russia (whether or not they are correct is another issue).
Most of what they do is tame politically, and milder than Nemtsov/Navalnyi/Kasparov. Substantial portion of their output is general interest stuff , national public radio style, like interviews with different sort of people, arts/culture, and other normal ‘intelligentsia’ stuff.
Occasionally they misbehave but for a reason. Publishing losses in peace time was legal when it occurred; it was banned and after that it stopped. But at the same time, we do want Ukraine to give accurate account of their losses as it may help to stop the war. Also, when military deaths are not acknowledged, it may affect families (compensation, and just knowing what happened and why).
As for MH17 and other such incidents, these journos have degrees in humanities and arts, and are illiterate in technical or military issues. They repeat what they hear and consider trustworthy, and simply do not have brainpower for independent analysis.
For the large part, they are an asset. It shows to the world that Russia is not North Korea or China and had media independent from the goverment. At the same time, they do not leave and operate in Russia, which simplifies managing them; and as a result they are much tamer and more for dialog with the goverment, compared to foreign based sources. (And yes, it takes attraction of forbidden fruit out).
And they are recognizes as an asset. E.g. in 2012 Putin asked Venediktov (Ech Mosk chief editor) to be his confidant in reelection campaign (after some sharp criticism) . Also Strelkov assistant commander Prapor in one of his interviews thanked God for creating Dozhd and Echo Mosckvy, because in comparison people can clearly see who is who and what’s their worth
Additionally having opposition sources helps to keep some checks on corruption and abuse of power, and doing so is ultimately good for the state.
There is also a long cultural tradition, e.g. Russian Emperor bankrolled awful dissident and 5 columnist Alexander Pushkin; Stalin allowed Shostakovich and Pasternak; and in the long run, that proved to be of great benefit.
Nothing new. We see it everyday in India where most of news channels, leading intellectuals and all those who want division and separation are being sponsored in some way or other by Foreign Money.
The previous Govt (UPA-II) even put some of these “Intellectuals” in National Advisory Council (NAC) which used to dictate Parliament and used to report to Sonia Gandhi….. the super PM without any accountability.
What is the effect of this Foreign Influence ? Quite effective. Even the most guys here in this forum do believe in those sponsored news when it comes to India. They see “Modi and Hindutva Brigade” doing unthinkable things, “All minorities are getting oppressed under Modi Govt”, “Saffron Terror is a real danger” .
Same with Indian guys. They would believe what NYT / CNN has to say about Russia or North Korea.
The basic problem is – Foreign sponsored Media and intellectuals are threat to everyone as they try to do “Opinion Moulding” is a very gradual manner. And somehow, they are effective. And they do it on behalf of big powers only.
One solution is : Do not believe whatever appears in News. Cross-check whenever possible.
I recently saw some research — forget where — that the best way to counter propaganda is to let it be published, but with followup information correcting the lies.
for instance..
Assertion: ‘Putin the dictator …’
Response: ‘Putin was elected and is supported by a large majority of the Russian people, as shown by independent international polls, and the Kremlin arrives at decisions through consulting with other government decisions or by votes of the Duma, is limited in what he can do by the Russian constitution, and there are many news outlets and other sources who frequently criticize him and his actions. [add links or citations of sources if appropriate]
Such an authoritative refutation will serve to discredit those making the assertion, casting doubt on all else they say. A difficulty may be having a platform where the lies do not pass unchallenged and those who would refute the lies are not cut off. It is also possible to use another platform, preferably reaching the same or wider audience, to quote the assertion and then make the refutation, but this should be immediately available so as to be within the same ‘conversation’, so there isno delay which allows the listener to ‘digest’ the false propaganda.
I cannot, of course, speak to the official charter, but RT often does precisely that – and does it pretty well.
However, sadly, they cannot always speak the whole truth, as the western audience would fall into cogitative dissonance, decouple, and turn away, then be lost.
Example? The obvious lies around “911”. They are in error about this, I suspect. Most ordinary people do not buy the lies, often veterans discuss the lies about the operation called 911 – and though ordinary American veterans do not know “Machtergreifung” or “Gleichshaltung” they get the idea… They’re illiterate, not stupid. Many have been trained at and used for, military demolations – they know what they see, and gossip. They voted. Wanna bet who for?