The recent double bombing in Volgograd (ex-Stalingrad) represent a definitive escalation in the low-level but constant war which has opposed Wahabi insurgents to not only the Kremlin, but also to all the traditional Muslim authorities in Russia. Before looking into what these latest attacks could mean for Russia in general and for the upcoming Sochi Olympic games, it would be helpful here to go over some basic fact.
Chechnia:
First, it would be a mistake to assume that any “Islamic” terrorist act committed in Russia would have to involve Chechens. The reality is that Chechnia has not only been pacified, it is actually peaceful. The Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov literally pulled-off a miracle when he turned the war-ravaged Chechen “black hole” into a prosperous and *truly* peaceful republic. The fact that this miracle was either not reported or ridiculed by the Anglo-Zionist pundits, who had all gone on record saying that the Chechen insurgency would never be defeated, makes sense: recognizing it would simply be politically unthinkable. Still, the fact that the young man who had all the external appearance of an average Chechen thug turned out to be an extremely capable and wise political leader is undeniable and even though no “war on terror” is ever truly “won”, it would be fair to say that, at least for the time being, the Chechen terrorist phenomenon has been brought down to almost zero. Unfortunately, if the future looks really bright for Chechnia, things are infinitely worse in neighboring Dagestan.
Dagestan:
Chechnia and Dagestan are neighbors, but they could hardly be more different. For one thing, Chechnia is mostly inhabited by Chechens, whereas there is really no such thing as a “Dagestani”: more than a dozen different ethnic groups live side by side in Dagestan. In fact, Dagestan is the most diverse of all the Russian republics where no single group can form a majority. This aspect is absolutely crucial because the fact that there is no one dominating ethnic group means that there cannot be a “Dagestani Kadyrov”. Second, the Dagestani economy is run by very corrupt elites who fight against each other and each other’s clans. In practical terms this means that the “recipe” used in Chechnia (to give a local Chechen leader a maximal level of autonomy and authority) would be a disaster for Dagestan. The “solution” for Dagestan does probably involve a very forceful intervention from the Federal Center and a destruction of the current ethnicity-based clan system – not something anybody in the Kremlin would look forward to.
For the time being, however, Dagestan is the hotbed for Wahabi terrorism. You could say that the Wahabi cancer that first took hold in Chechnia, spread to Dagestan while it was being destroyed in Chechnia. The extreme poverty of Dagestan, combined with the millions of dollars provided by the Saudis to their allies and agents made it very easy for them to very successfully market their brand of Wahabism in Dagestan and to recruit local agents of influence and terrorists.
The Dagestani terrorists have learned the lessons of Chechnia well, and they are never trying to hold on to any territory or to create some kind of Wahabi statelet in Dagestan: quite to the contrary, day after day after day, the security forces engage the Dagestani terrorists who each time end up either captured or dead (mostly the latter). The reason for that is obvious: the Dagestani terrorists are weak and they cannot take on even the local cops. But they are just strong enough to strap explosives on some young man or woman and send them to blow themselves up on a bus or train station.
Wahabis in the rest of Russia:
It also would be wrong to assume that all Wahabi terrorism in Russia has to come from Dagestan or even the Caucasus. The Saudi-backed Wahabis are recruiting literally everywhere – from the south of Russia to Saint Petersburg and from Tatarstan to Moscow. As a result, there are cases of ethnic Russians who are involved in Wahabi terrorist acts. The bottom line is this: Wahabi terrorism in Russia is not a regional problem or an ethnic problem – it is an ideological problem. So we should not jump to conclusions here and assume anything about who might be behind the latest attacks. It literally could be anybody
From Volgograd to Sochi?
Volgograd has been the scene of several terrorist attacks in the recent past and the last two are only the latest in a series of events. Why Volgograd?
Well, Volgograd is – along with Rostov-on-the-Don and Krasnodar – one of the major cities of southern Russia and it is close enough to Dagestan to make it fairly easy for the Dagestani Wahabis (assuming that they are involved) to organize a terrorist attack in that city. In fact, Volgograd is pretty much at the same distance from Dagestan as Sochi. Not a pleasant thought.
Another factor which might have played a role in the terrorist’s decision to strike at Volgograd is that most Russian counter-terrorist efforts are currently concentrated in, and around, Sochi. One of the basic rules of counter terrorism says there are always more targets to protect than resources to protect them. Even if Volgograd had been put on total lockdown, the terrorist could have chose Astrakhan, Elista, Stavropol or any other city. My guess is that the local and Federal security are primarily focused on keeping the Olympic infrastructure safe and that, as a result, Volgograd was unusually exposed.
What do we know so far?
Several of you have written to me (by email or the comments section) asking me if I thought that these latest attacks were a result of the recent Saudi threats. Honestly – I don’t know, this is way too early to tell. The Russians are working fast and Russian media sources report that the suicide-bomber which blew up the railway station yesterday has been identified as Pavel Pechenkin.
Pavel Pechenkin |
D. Sokolov and N. Asiialova |
As far as I know, this has not been officially confirmed and DNA analyses are still being conducted. If true, however, this would point to a group of ethnic Russians which would include Dimitri Sokolov, who was recently killed by the security forces, was an ethnic Russian who lived in Dagestan and who joined a terrorist group in the city of Makhachkala. However, it is interesting to note that his contact with the Wahabi underground did not begin in Dagestan, but in a mosque in Moscow were he had signed up to take lessons of the Arabic language. Sokolov was the common law husband of Naida Asiialova, a suicide-bomber who blew herself up in a crowded bus in Volgograd in October of this year. Pechenkin, Sokolov and Asiialova apparently all were part of the same terror cell which, while based in Dagestan, included ethnic Russians.
This group was very well known to the Russian security services and the parents of Sokolov and Pechenkin both made desperate statements to the Russian media begging their sons not to commit any violent acts and to give up a life of terrorism. While these people definitely had accomplices, Sokolov and Pechenkin were clearly the public image of this group and, as far as I know, there are no more senior figures of this cell on the run from the security services. As of now, and that is a very preliminary assessment, there are no “Saudi fingerprints” on these attacks. They appear to be what the Americans call a case of “home grown terror” and, if there is a Saudi link, it is through the massive funding of Wahabi mosques in Russia (and worldwide).
Russian internal options
As H. L. Mencken wrote, “for every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong“. In this case this simple solution is to shut down all the Wahabi linked mosques in Russia and some simple minded individuals in Russia have already expressed their desire to see that happening. There are many problems with such a “solution”.
1) That would be simply illegal. Russia has (finally!) more or less become a country where the rule of law matters or, at least, Russia is on its way to become such a country. What is certain is that the vast majority of Russians want their country to become a normal, civilized, country where the rule of law is central to the political life. To shut down mosques would be simply illegal. On what grounds should they be shut down to begin with? On “suspicion of Wahabism?”. There is no such crime in Russian law. For receiving foreign money? That is not illegal either. For being linked to terrorist networks? Yes, that would be illegal, but that is also very hard to prove and there is no way that the FSB or the Investigative Committee could make such charges stick in a court of law against most such mosques. The bottom line is this: Putin is not a dictator and he cannot act outside the Russian law, nor would he want to.
2) That would be immoral. I lived for many years literally right next to a big mosque fully financed by the Saudis and, to my knowledge, not only did that mosque never ever have anything to do with terrorism, the people attending that mosque were not even involved in a single case of petty crime. God knows that I hate the Wahabi ideology with all my mind and heart, but I cannot say that most Wahabis are bad people at all, or that they are linked to terrorism. They are not and they should not be the scapegoats for the actions of others. I am fully in favor of the physical destruction of every single Wahabi terrorist on the planet, but as long as they don’t take up arms and start murdering and maiming their fellow human beings, the followers of Ibn Taymiyyah and Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab should not be made to pay for the actions of others.
3) It would be counter-productive. The one good thing about leaving such Wahabi-linked mosques free to operate is that that gives the security forces a perfect target to penetrate and keep an eye on. Shut down these mosques and you will push them into an underground where they might be much harder to infiltrate. In fact, such Wahabi-linked mosques can even be used as honeypots to attract, identify and arrest homegrown terrorists.
No, the best way to deal with the Saudi financed propaganda and terror is to support anti-Wahabi, traditional, Islamic organizations and religious leaders. There are plenty of smart and well educated Muslims in Russia, including quite a few well-known imams, who can take the ideological and spiritual fight to the Wahabis and denounce them for what they are. What the Russian state should do is a) physically protect these people b) listen to them and their assessment of the situation c) explain to the non-Muslim population that these are vital allies in the struggle against Wahabi terrorism.
What if a Saudi trace is found?
That is a big “if”! But let us assume, for argument’s sake, that the Russians do find some kind of Saudi “fingerprints” in these attacks, or in upcoming attacks during the Sochi Olympics, and look at various Russian responses:
1) An overt retaliatory strike on Saudi Arabia:
In purely military terms, this is a no-brainer. The Russians could strike with bombers, submarine based cruise missiles, ballistic missiles – you name it. And while the US would express all sorts of outrage, CENTCOM would do nothing about it because the original purpose of CENTCOM was to prevent a Soviet invasion of Iran, not to defend the Saudis against a Russian retaliatory strike. The problem with this option is that it would be illegal under international law and that is something Russia does not want. If Russia decided to publicly and officially accuse Saudi Arabia of terrorist attacks against Russia, it would have to go to the UNSC or the International Court of Justice and make the case legally.
2) File an official complaint at the ICJ and try get a UNSC vote to condemn the KSA:
Actually this is a very neat option because it would put the Saudis in a very embarrassing political position. Depending on the wording of the resolution, the US would either abstain or veto it since, no matter how much problems there have been between the two sides recently, the US and the KSA are still strategic allies. Still, such an official complaint by Russia against the Saudi regime would put even more egg on the faces of the medieval monkeys in power in Riyadh. I would personally like that a lot, but this would not be in Putin’s style – he prefer a much more low key kind of diplomacy.
3) A covert retaliatory strike on Saudi Arabia:
Also well within the means of the Kremlin not only because it could use Russian capabilities to hit some Saudi prince or two, but because it could easily subcontract that job to an allied force. The problem with that is even if this would be a retaliatory strike it would still be an act of terrorism. So far, the only case that I am aware of the Russians assassinating somebody is when they killed the notorious terrorist Ibn al-Khattab: the Russian special services intercepted a letter for Khattab, and laced it with a special poison which would be harmless for anybody except Khattab (a far more effective and sophisticated method than the idiotic accusation that they would use polonium to kill somebody). In this case, however, the Russians admitted their role and even made more or less official declarations giving the details of the operation. While this assassination was conducted using covert methods, this was not a true covert operation because the Russians voluntarily admitted that they were behind it. Khattab was such a piece of scum that nobody sane expressed any problems with it: this was one of those very rare, black and white, slam dunk, case where pretty much everybody agrees that the killed person truly had it coming and that justice was served. But that is the exception. All too many so-called “covert operations” are simply a pious euphemism for terrorist (counter-)attacks i.e., something a civilized country should not do.
4) What then? Aiming at the long term:
In a struggle against terrorism keeping the moral high ground is absolutely vital: you have to do your utmost to deny your enemy the status of “freedom fighter”. To do that, you absolutely must keep your hands as clean as possible and you have to only engage in those actions which, if discovered, would make you look honorable. Dick Cheney’s notion that “now the gloves are off” is just a reflection of his lack of sophistication. The same thing can be said of the CIA’s “plausible deniability”. The result of such self-delusion is that the USA is hated and despised worldwide and there literally isn’t a vile, dishonorable or stupid action which anybody would put past the US covert operations community. Does Russia really want to become the “next villain” (again!)?!
I personally think that it is crucial for a civilized country to have its official, declaratory, public policy in harmony with what it does behind the scenes. There is nothing inherently wrong with covert operations as long as they are conduced in such a manner as to make those who ordered them look reasonable and honorable if the operation is discovered. Russia cannot constantly speak of the absolutely crucial role which should be played by international law in international relations and then happily go on violating the basic rules of international law. For this reason, any use of force (military or covert) by Russia has to be predicated on the following principles:
1) All other non-violent options have either been already attempted or are impossible to implement.
2) The use of force is proportional to the attack which triggered it.
3) Every effort is made to avoid innocent victims.
Sounds Pollyannaish? Well, it shouldn’t!
Decades of absolutely irresponsible and reckless use of force by the USA, the Israelis, the Europeans and the Soviets have thoroughly desensitized us to the fundamental immorality of violence. Raised as most of us have been on John Wayne movies and Ronald Reagan presidencies, we have lost the disgust of the civilized man for the ugliness and immorality of violence. Worse, we are so conditioned by decades of watching CNN special reports from the Pentagon showing the latest “briefing” about some US military intervention that we forget that “shooting from the hip” is a most ineffective way of dealing with a problem.
When dealing with an issue like terrorism, it is always better to plan for the long term. From that point of view, I would argue that the Saudi regime is a big enough problem to deserve to be considered a inherent national security threat to Russia and that, in turn, means that it should be a Russian national security strategy to achieve regime change in the KSA. This goal, however, should be pursued only or, at least, mainly, through legal means such as, for example, arming the Iranians and the Syrians who, in turn, will arm Hezbollah. This goal can also be achieved by isolating Saudi Arabia on the international scene by means of “consultations” with allies and friendly nations. Furthermore, Russia should seek to expand its role and influence in the Muslim and Arab world in order to counteract the current influence of the Saudis and the other Gulf monarchies.
In the short term, the Russian public needs to be openly told that terrorism cannot be eradicated, that this is a pipe dream cooked up by dishonest politicians. But if no nation or government can really eradicate terrorism, one can learn how to live with it. After all, the actual amount of victims of terrorism is extremely small, far less than, say, road accidents. The real power of terrorism resides in the psychological effect it has not on its direct victims, but on those who witness it. As soon as the general public accepts the notion that even if terrorists attack can be brought down to a minimum, some will always remain possible, terrorism will lose its real force. Terrorism can either be accepted as a fact of life, or a nation can be drawn in an endless spiral of futile counter-terrorist measures which are far more damaging than the terrorism which triggered them.
Does Russia really want to become a terrified and paranoid Fascist state like the USA? Or does it prefer to accept the fact that terrorism will never be “defeated” and keep on living as best as can be in an always dangerous world?
Russian politicians are already hotly debating whether to cancel the current moratorium on the death penalty: Nikolay Pligin, United Russia MP and head of the Duma’s Constitutional Law committee, declared that “no social groups will be discriminated against, no special activities will be carried out against any specific group – all activities will be conducted solely within the constitutional norms and in accordance with existing laws” while Ramzan Kadyrov urged the parliament to “infinitely increase the penalty for those, who not only commits terrorist acts, but share the ideas of the terrorists, spread their ideology and train them. I’m absolutely sure that we won’t cope with this evil by playing democracy and humanity”.
Well, at least both agree that the correct place to discuss this issue and decide on what policies to adopt is the Parliament. I expect that Duma to speak in one voice and give the Kremlin pretty much any law the latter would want, so the real decision will be in Putin’s hands. I am personally confident that his choice will be to abide very strictly to the letter and spirit of Russian national law and international law and that there shall be no Russian over-reaction.
The Saker
PS: Sorry about all the typos, weird sentences and poor grammar – I am writing that under a lot of time pressure (-: yes, I do have a life :-) and I simply don’t have the time right now to sit down and proofread this text. My apologies for that! The Saker
PPS: most (all?) of the numerous typos and other horrors of the text above have been kindly corrected by S. to whom I owe a big debt of gratitude for all his kind help!
Thank you, once again your insights are very much appreciated.
I think this is the definitive take on the situation, net-wide, and as usual a very, very fine piece of work. I could feel myself getting calmer as I read it, and I have to admit I felt a little foolish, too, as I was so outraged this morning that I would almost have supported a SPETSNAZ suicide mission to give Bandar bin Sultan a 9mm shower right in his chamber at Chateau BigBux. You are absolutely correct; there is at present no reason to believe the Kingdom is even involved beyond its background funding – which, though bad enough, has been going on for years and would be impossible to stop, since the delivering of physical bags of cash has gone the way of the dodo.
Once again, my compliments on a skillful and broad-ranging analysis of the situation. I hope it gets wide readership and distribution, and would strongly recommend it to the Russian government. This is thinking, not reacting.
Good article, with a commendable balance between facts and hypotheses, while never losing sight of the moral imperative.
You are perfectly right, Saker: it’s not because the Israelis, the Brits and the USA, and their mass medias, have relentlessly advocated a hyper-violent approach to international politics that Russia should debase itself and participate in this nasty game.
Cautious intelligence and dynamic balance are keys to long-term success. It’s because they lacked both that the Nazis and the Japanese lost — utter nastiness will give you only a short-term advantage.
@marknesop: thank you for your very kind, if undeserved, words. I can assure you that I also felt the same rage you did this morning. But, believe me, the Russian Spetsnaz GRU and FSB have caught and killed literally *thousands* of that scum, and only a few actually made it to a lifelong sentence in a labor camp like this reptile here:
http://rg.ru/i/gallery/6bba05b2/74cdfb42.jpg
But it would be an illusion to think that just killing terrorists will solve anything. Heck – they gladly kill themselves already! And killing Bandar is one fine idea, but there is a full menagerie of wannabe princes behind him, so then what?
Wahabism needs to be defeated as an ideology and that is something only Muslims can do. What the rest of the world should do is help those Muslims who realize (and a lot of them do!) that Wahabism is their moral enemy first and foremost (Wahabis consider non-Wahabis Muslims as apostates or even pagans, if you can believe that) while fighting against those who would conflate all types of Islam into one group (thereby making the Zionists blissful with joy).
I personally dream of the day when each ethnic group in the Caucasus would generate its own “Kadyrov” and enjoy the same peace and prosperity as the Chechens do today.
Cheers and all the best of 2014 to you and your loved ones!
The Saker
Whatever Russia does, it would be done discretely; no bombast and within international law and possibly through a 3rd party. I think Russia is far too smart to engage in a tit for tat exchange when the game is rigged.
If an extreme response is called for, the Anglo empire’s economy is a house of cards and a few well placed kicks by China brings it tumbling down – no laws broken, the Anglo empire is defanged (although still full of venom) and its population wondering what the hell happened and looking for answers (just to be clear, Russia is way too smart to be fooled into attacking the Islamic world, the root cause is firmly placed in the Angle Empire).
The wounded Anglo beast would be dangerous and unpredictable. China would expect Russia to cover its back in the event of a threatened military retaliation over some contrived pretext. Among other things Russia takes the nuclear option off the table and can partially mitigate the effects of an oil embargo against China.
There may be less drastic steps Russia and China can take in the event of all-out state sponsored terrorist attacks but the China/Russia economic and military combo severely limits the scope of rational Anglo actions.
– Patient Observer
Hi Saker,
My condolences to the great Russian people.
On Muslims defeating wahabism, i whole heartedly agree with you – although i am significantly discouraged by the latest news vis a vis Saudi grant of $3Bn to lebanon army for example… this coupled with Lebanon’s president Suleiman (a non-muslim) appearing prematurely to thank the saudis for this grant as if there is any good in it for lebanon..he should know better.. non-muslim leaders too should denounce efforts to buy their countries and loyalties by the wahabi thugs..but money does wonders in the end..
Also, how do you think the resistance / Iran would react to this “generous” saudi offer? is there much they can do?
thanks, Tarek
@Tarek:Also, how do you think the resistance / Iran would react to this “generous” saudi offer? is there much they can do?
Yes, I saw that. Well, for one thing the Resistance is also inside the Lebanese Army. So as long as that money goes to the official Lebanese Army and not just to the pro-Israeli militias I say “no big deal!”. Besides, the CIA also sent money to the Lebanese Army – did that help them to ever make use of it against Hezbollah? No, of course. The Saudis think that money wins wars, it does not – courage and will power does.
So don’t worry for Hezbollah – they are quite literally undefeatable :-)
Kind regards and many thanks,
The Saker
@terrorism cannot be eradicated…
The Russians are a resilient people. Not many relish a bath in icy cold water! I always gave that example when arguing with people who explained the abandonement of baptism by immersion by the coldness of the climate in Northern Europe. But the Russians…?
Anyhow they proved that they can take many hard knocks and jump back on their feet. Terrorism indeed is directed at the public. If the public fail to be scared terrorism is defeated. Remember the Moscow Theater attack, Beslan?
As of how to deal with KSA? I think that a way would be to expose as widley as possible the d/alliance of KSA with Israel.
Cheers,
WizOz
@WizOz: If the public fail to be scared terrorism is defeated.
*EXACTLY*
(not to mention that courage is far more rational than engaging in an unwinnable “war on terror”)
Remember the Moscow Theater attack, Beslan?
Oh yes I do. And I also know that every single individual how participated in these abomination is now where he belongs: in hell (-: trip organized and paid for by the Kremlin :-)
As of how to deal with KSA? I think that a way would be to expose as widley as possible the d/alliance of KSA with Israel.
Yes, but only “indirectly” (чтоб уши не торчали) as Russia is officially such a big friend of Israel ;-)
Cheers and all the best,
The Saker
Thanks for providing the maps with the excellent article!
Looking at the maps I wonder about why states, republics or regions in the N Caucasus are muslim, while Georgia and Armenia south of the Caucasus are christian. In this sense both areas seem to be enclaves.
Saudi Arabia is just one state to support Chechen terrorists groups that focusing exclusively on Saudi Arabia and the Wahabbi factor negates the reality were the senior support with operations and sanctuary are Chechen groups based in Turkey were they have a lot of ethnic support.
All the gulf states have provided support to Chechen terrorist groups most prominent supporters being Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Jordan as well as Pakistan and to a lesser extent in support networks in Europe Britain, Scandanavian countries and Finland were Kavak Center operates freely to traffic fighters and fundraise for the Caucasus Emirate.
Russia and China are up against the same enemy. They need to unite even further than they already have.
The history of the Wahhabi sect of Islam goes back to the Ottoman Empire, which had to use force against the practitioners when the founder and his followers massacred Muslims in the 1800s. Sadly, the Wahhabis have learned nothing and are still the scourge they were then. Another problem is the closeness of Saudi Arabia to NATO and its willing following of the US/Anglo Empire goals to rule the world. Israel will find it has also been used for this purpose. In the meantime, the best that we Muslims can do is to speak out against the vile practice and remember the Qur’an’s admonition to use reason and not emotion when evaluating events. I, too, have had second thoughts and realize that suicide bombing is not a valid answer in my understanding of what the Qur’an says. It says to do GOOD deeds, not kill innocent people. In fact, to kill innocent people is to kill all of humanity. Meanwhile, may the Russian people also struggle against hate and learn that we are with them in their struggle to survive in a mean and hostile world.
apart from wahhabis are other islamists opportunists seeking to create a caliphate
Hizb ut-Tahrir in Syria: The Regime Will Cede to the Islamic Caliphate
http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/6922
more subtle and smarmy and so ore dangerous
Hizb ut-Tahrir recruits for jihad in europe and elsewhere:
‘For the U.S. and Western countries, the returning jihadists pose the biggest long-term concern of the Syrian civil war, the official said. Governments are rushing to counter the new terror threat.
“We monitor very closely people seeking to travel [to Syria]—and also people traveling back—because of the potential risk they may pose upon their return to the U.K.,” said Britain’s security minister James Brokenshire.’
‘Recruited through a network of mosques across Europe, these jihadists then make the pilgrimage to safe houses in southern Turkey, where they prepare to cross the border into Syria’s battlefields.
The recruiting efforts in Europe’s mosques aim for Muslim youth with clean records who aren’t on the radar of intelligence services. This makes it easier for them to return home later, the European diplomat said.
An international Islamic group, Hizb al Tahrir, is at the center of this recruitment in Europe, Western officials say. The group is particularly strong in the U.K. and Denmark, the European diplomat said.
“They create small groups and form a strong sense of group cohesion with a leader in the middle…surrounded by young, aspiring jihadists,” the European diplomat said.
They also show videos and photos of the war’s human toll for emotional appeal.
etc
http://www.womenagainstshariah.com/2013/12/jihadists-returning-home-to-europe-from.html
@ne torchati
Kanechno! Bien sur!
But I am sure that VVP read Vladimir Volkoff (although I think that he does not need it, he is the Black Belt).
I remember that after the “fall of communism” I was talking to friends (in Romania) telling them not to dismiss Russia. They were splitting their sides laughing. I told them: “can’t you see that they have their hands on the gas tap”? Now they laughed their heads off. I had to give up then. I had the laugh later. They had to admit grudgingly that there was some reason in my reasonments.
So all the best for the New Year,
Za vashe zdorovie,
WizOz
@Saker: they killed the notorious terrorist Ibn al-Khattab: the Russian special services intercepted a letter for Khattab, and laced it with a special poison which would be harmless for anybody except Khattab
Sounds pretty incredible – I couldn’t find any source that corroborates that detail. Do you have a link?
Honk
I’d have to disagree with some things from this otherwise great article.
Although the funding of mosques from the outside should not be stopped, it could be tightly controlled. E.g.: monitor to what purpose(s) it’s being dedicated / used so that every penny is accounted for.
It’s good that Russia recently adapted the law against terrorism which is now including an amendment forcing the relatives of the known terrorist(s) to pay for the damages resulting from the terrorist acts. It’s primarily a psychological pressure on the terrorist scum. This law has to be extended on their friends & all the groups (nothing happens in a vacuum) which even vaguely support the idea of justifying terrorism, especially the liberal (mainly zionist) filth sponsored from the outside: they are all pursuing the same goal – to destroy Russia.
Terrorism could be eradicated: how come nothing of the kind could be even thought of during Stalin’s rule? These kinds of acts are beyond the law, & so is the remedy for them.
I strongly disagree that all the organizers of the Moscow theater siege & the Beslan school massacre are taken care of. In fact, the very person because of whom the Beslan attack was carried out, Khodorkovsky was released last week to the joy of those who initiated the whole thing. Yes, the scum at the bottom of the pyramid was taken care of, but what about the rest?
Finally, why is Russia so soft on all the countries which provide logistics & protection for the terrorist scum? Stop dealing with them, charge them tax for “terrorist support”, etc. Again, these would be psychological rather than economic measures. Let’s call spade a spade!
I am so full of anger; forgive me good folks if this is over the edge! Condolences to the families in grief.
We Serbs know the best what you are going through.
Dear Saker,
I want to second what some others have said about this article. It is far and away the best article on this tragic question anyone has written. Quite simply the definitive article and the best. Moreover like you I expect what you propose is precisely the line the Russian government will follow.
There are just two further points I want to make:
1. Not only is this the best article about the overall terrorist problem in Russia but it is also (finally) an article that gives Kadyrov his proper due. The endless abuse levelled at someone who has (with the help of the central government) brought peace to a troubled land is little short of appalling. To my mind it exposes the true agenda of those who level this abuse. They care nothing for Chechnya and its people, their interest being solely in injuring Russia.
2. Two countries over the last 20 years have faced an Islamic terrorist threat – the US and Russia. By any measure the threat Russia has faced has been far the more murderous and sustained. They have responded in diametrically opposite ways: the one by strengthening the rule of law, the other by throwing it out of the window descending into a bacchanalia of torture, “black ops”, foreign invasions, “extraordinary renditions”, indiscriminate drone attacks etc. Who would have predicted 30 years ago that the second would be the US and that the first would be Russia?
@Sokenekos:Terrorism could be eradicated: how come nothing of the kind could be even thought of during Stalin’s rule?
Well, there was terrorism in the western Ukraine and in Central Asia. But the main terrorism was, of course, the state’s terrorism, so this is hardly an example of successful counter-terrorism.
In fact, the very person because of whom the Beslan attack was carried out, Khodorkovsky
What is your evidence for that?
why is Russia so soft on all the countries which provide logistics & protection for the terrorist scum?
Because Putin (and the Chinese) understand that they have to take that slow long process.
I am so full of anger; forgive me good folks if this is over the edge!
Grief and outrage is normal. But anger is a very bad advisor which fosters miscalculations
Cheers!
The Saker
@Alexander: Who would have predicted 30 years ago that the second would be the US and that the first would be Russia?
I know. That never ceases to amaze me. 30 years ago I would have laughed at the very notion of an “ex-KGB defender of freedom” sitting in the Kremlin while an “Black Fascist pseudo-monarch” would be sitting in the White House…
Amazing, amazing times for sure…
Happy new year and all the best for you and your loved ones in 2014!
Cheers,
The Saker
Slow long process or not, blowing Prince Bandar bin chimp´s private jet out of the sky in Jordan wont leave any trace but will effectively bring the lobbing-process of Wahhabi Orc´s to a stand-still for a short period of time. A window of opportunity for Russia to cease. Just a thought….
Mikhas.
Dear Saker,
And a very Happy and Prosperous New Year to you and to your family. Also another year in 2014 as successful for your blogging as 2013 has been!
Best Wishes,
Alexander Mercouris
PS: Viz the comment about Stalin – of course there was terrorism in Stalin’s time and on an immeasurably greater scale than now. The point is it was the state that organised it.
Saker,
Can you elaborate on the politics/aims/motives/purposes of the ethnic Russian convert terrorist groups?
Your boy is on bbc, they seem to be playing him down
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25563233
And Putin disagrees with you, but I think he is saying this more for effect
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25558070
Regards
Mindfriedo
@Saker
What’s going on in Volgograd is state terrorism by definition. Which state(s), however, is to be defined. And it’s not Russia.
If they knew of this Russian convert’s connections to Dagestan cells, why did the Russian anti-terrorist agencies wait for him to strike first? If they continue to avoid preemptive actions (arrest & quarantine, for instance), the ratio of killed terrorists vs. innocent civilians is always going to be in favor of the former. He, & alike, didn’t go there to learn how to bake cookies, but how to kill on a massive scale.
Yes, I agree, Stalin was not the best example to consider, but what’s then the proper response to state-sponsored terrorism like this if the current methods do not work?
My evidence for Zionist-western revenge on Putin for Khodorkovsky’s arrest in the form of Beslan school massacre is hard to find, you know, they know what they are doing. Cui bono? But read this excerpt, for example, from “Khodorkovsky society” blog:
“Mr. Putin hasn’t even bothered to explain how consolidating power into an administration incapable of preventing Beslan in the first place is going to make the country any safer from terrorism.
A man of Mr. Khodorkovsky’s wealth and connections probably could arrange a relatively comfortable plea bargain.”
http://mikhail_khodorkovsky_society.blogspot.com/2004_10_01_archive.html
If you cannot read between the lines here, then I’d be greatly disappointed – given your brilliance in analysis. We would probably not know for a long time what went on between the Kremlin & the scum from the West at that time. All I know that Politkovskaya had a direct phone access to the terrorists at the school – she admitted it later. Whose player was she? And do you thing that heinous crime would had happened if Khodorkovsky weren’t arrested? Just remember what M. Albright said about Russia’s riches. Wasn’t Khodorkovsky (amongst other jews) their man?
Oh, yes, I understand: no quick solution here, but Russia (& China) has to show it means business.
Anger is an enemy – I know – precisely what the enemies are asking for.
Best!
Kudos. Very thorough analysis and extremely measured response… might one say “Lavrov-esque”. The only thing to add is sincere and heartfelt condolences to the good citizens of Volgograd — and particularly to the families of those killed or injured. Evil does not prevail over good. On that one must rely. But to quote HL Mencken “every normal man must at times be tempted to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin to slit throats”. One imagines this sums-up Putin’s sentiments. Mine too.
Happy New Year to one of the best sites in Christendom. Or anywhere for that matter.
AGS
@Honk:Sounds pretty incredible – I couldn’t find any source that corroborates that detail. Do you have a link?
In Russian, I could find you interviews on YouTube with FSB officers who were part of the team who Khattab. I am sure that I can also find written sources. Or you can try google “khattab letter poison FSB”. I immediately found this: http://articles.latimes.com/2002/may/01/world/fg-poison1
Keep in mind that many people touched the letter, but only Khattab died.
Cheers!
The Saker
@AGS: Thanks a lot for your kind, if undeserved, words! Happy New Year to you too!
The Saker
@Anonynmous1250:Can you elaborate on the politics/aims/motives/purposes of the ethnic Russian convert terrorist groups?
They are simply your garden variety alienated youth who end up being brainwashed by the Wahabis. Your average scientologists would be very similar.
Cheers,
The Saker
@Sokenekos:My evidence for Zionist-western revenge on Putin for Khodorkovsky’s arrest in the form of Beslan school massacre is hard to find, you know, they know what they are doing. Cui bono?
Berezovky seems a better candidate imho.
Cheers!
The Saker
@Saker http://articles.latimes.com/2002/may/01/world/fg-poison1
I had read that one, however it just says he has probably been poisoned through a letter, nothing about a poison that would selectively only work on a single person.
> Keep in mind that many people touched the letter, but only Khattab died.
Well, he’s the only one – after the poison was added by the informant – to have opened the letter and touched the poison that was inside.
Still I’d wonder how you think such a “targeted poison” would work. Genetically selective?
Honk
Alexander & Saker:
“Who would have predicted 30 years ago that the second would be the US and that the first would be Russia? “
Me, because I have always seen that the roots of the US drive for global dominance were grown in the 1880s, when the US, after achieving ‘Manifest Destiny’ and under the influence of Mahan, began a sustained program of fleet-building with the eventual aim of global naval dominance. This program was directed against Russia from the beginning. Mahan himself identified Russia as a country to be opposed and diminished at every opportunity.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01495939608403085#preview
Abstract
Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan’s writings on geopolitics, although often overlooked, have proved prescient, sobering, and enlightening. Russia’s secure position at the heart of the Eurasian land mass, according to Mahan’s principles, gives it a preeminent power projection capability. Mahan advocated that the U.S. role toward Russia should be one of containment, because of Russia’s incomparable land position.
@Honk: Still I’d wonder how you think such a “targeted poison” would work. Genetically selective?
All I can tell you for sure is that the Russians were very proud that their poison was absolutely selective. They explained that they first had tried to infiltrate the group of people around Khattab, but that their agents were discovered and killed. They also could not use technical means to kill Khattab who had learned the lesson of Dudaev (who was killed by a special missile which locked on the signal of his satellite phone). So the Russians found out about a letter sent to Khattab which they managed to intercept, lace with that special poison, and return back to its original delivery channel. They say that because Khattab was so careful, he always had other people open all his letters for him and have them examined for signs of tampering. They say that they used an advanced technique which made the poison harmless to everybody and deadly for Khattab. In my opinion this can only mean that it is genetically selective, as you put it.
Keep in mind that the Russian security services inherited all the work of the now defunct KGB who had a lot of very fancy things developed by Soviet scientists. Remember also how the world was stunned when the Russian special services succeeded in putting an entire theater to sleep during the The Moscow theater hostage crisis (aka “Nord-Ost” siege), at the Dubrovka Theater. This was an amazing achievement and if people later died it was because the Russian medical services lacked the means to resuscitate such a large amount of people from a gas they knew nothing about. But not a single person died inside the theater. Think of these figures:
50 terrorists (all killed) take
900 hostages (all freed)
then, alas,
130-200 ex-hostages died due to the lack of adequate medical care as the doctors did not know what gas was used so they did not know what “reversal agent” to use. Besides, no city in the world has the means to simultaneously revive hundereds of people at the same time. The medics were expecting bullet wounds, not fancy chemicals.
The western media accused the Russians security services of “yet another bloodbath” failing to realize that the alternative was 1000 dead people (a huge bomb was located in the middle of the theatre and the terrorists were all wearing suicide vests!).
Now clearly, when this gas was developed nobody in the ex-KGB ever thought that it would be used on thousands of people and I am quite sure that the security services did have enough “reversal agents” for 10-15 maybe 20 people. But not 800-1000.
Anyway, I just wanted to illustrate that the Russian security services have a lot of very fancy unconventional weapons which they normally only use in extraordinary circumstances. Getting rid of that scumbag Khattab was one of them. And yes, I am quite confident that they have poisons targeted at specific DNA sequences, proteins, or antigens.
BTW – the Apartheid-era South Africans has a biowarfare program aimed at only killing or sterilizing Blacks. I don’t think it ever got anywhere, but the basic idea to target specific inividuals based on their genes has been out there for a while.
Cheers and all the best for 2014!
The Saker
@Honk: and just to clarify,
all the 50 or so terrorists were executed while already asleep by the Spetsnaz FSB forces (mainly the Vympel unit) which gave the assault following the release of the gas. None of them was awake, and none of them had the time to detonate their device(s).
The Spetsnaz operators were clearly given the order to immediately shoot to kill because of the risk of even one terrorist detonating his/her bomb(s)/suicide wests but also to send a very clear message from Putin to anybody watching that Russia will show no mercy whatsoever towards terrorists and that any and all terrorists shall be literally eliminated.
By the way, Putin reiterated that message yesterday during his New Year wishes and he means it. We often fail to realize that but Russian Spetsnaz forces have, over the years, killed many THOUSANDS of terrorists, not only during the wars in Chechnia, but also ever since. The media rarely reports about that, but I would say that rarely does a week go by without some kind of terrorist cell being discovered and attacked by Russian Spetsnaz forces (mostly FSB and MVD, but in the south even Spetsnaz GRU forces have been seen in the mountains and forces hunting down various terrorist groups).
So IT IS possible to combat terrorism legally, without renditions, Guantanamos, paranoia, or a curbing of civil rights. One can even be “legally ruthless” when needed and Putin is beating the crap out of various terrorist groups without turning Russia into a Stalinist dictatorship and without breaking national or international law.
Still, I will have a knot in my stomach until the Olympics are over…
May God have mercy on the innocent and protect them!
The Saker
See: http://redecastorphoto.blogspot.com.br/2014/01/dupla-explosao-em-volgogrado-1-avaliacao.html
@Castor Filho: eu nao falo portugues, pero te agradezco mucho tu trabajo y la publicación de mi articulo! Me encanta ver mis textos traducidos en otro idiomas. Feliz 2014,
Salud2
El (halcon) Sacre
@Saker
Your article is well-rounded and your moral compass points in the right direction, a good reading guide in the ideal world of moral imperatives. But as old and infamous Niccolo well guessed, “Politics has no relation to morals,” and the Russians are not an exception to that naughty rule.
Russian security forces response to terrorist attacks are notorious for the use of a sledge-hammer, stilettos not their weapon of choice (remember the Moscow theater, Beslan, even Chechnya’s second war), showing a lack in sophistication at intelligence and operative levels. Besides, their security forces are a bureaucratic maze difficult to navigate, with competing agendas and political and economic interests, not different from their Western counterparts.
A bit more flabbergasting is your depiction of Putin as almost a “role-model” for democracy, and of Russia as a law-bound state. No doubt Russia has moved significantly from the czar model and from drunken dictators like Yeltsin, but still is a long-shot away from developing social/political checks and balances that would create an even ground for all Russians. Your comparison, in one of your answers to a comment, of “an ‘ex-KGB defender of freedom’ sitting in the Kremlin while an (sic) ‘Black Fascist pseudo-monarch’ would be sitting in the White House a ‘democratic Putin’ against a ‘Black Fascist Obama,’ is almost laughable and a bit bigoted, to say the least.
True, Obama as the puppet-head of the Empire, has only worsened world-wide conditions for human rights, civil rights, freedom and democracy in general, and the first four years of his administration were only a continuation of Bush II policies, i.e. drone massacres, illegal wars, open or by proxy, illegal imprisonment of thousands, illegal assassinations, subversion of the US Constitution and its Amendments, limitations of press freedom, persecution of whistleblowers, etc. In a nutshell, Obama continued upon the foundation left by Bush II, in the creation of a new framework for world-wide domination, for which the suppression of internal dissent and criticism is required.
Despite all the abuses of the Bush II and the Obama-Bush light era, Americans can still appeal to the rule of law, sue local, state and federal institutions, and in some cases, win, an impossibility for the common Russian. The US social and political fabric is a lot more sophisticated and complex than Russia’s, where imposing a government like Putin’s, moving at will from President to PM and vice versa, would be absolutely unthinkable. It is easy to judge the US from its atrocious and criminal foreign policy, and extrapolate it to its domestic policy, but it is not so simple. Putin’s exploitations of the US illegal overreach on an international level, has provided him with a façade of legitimacy he badly needed, but it doesn’t make him a “father” of Russian democracy.
I agree with you on a crucial point: Muslims have to be ones on the frontline against the terrorist plague of Wahhabism. Also, I agree in general terms with your thought-provoking article, minus my above comments.
Happy New Year, and keep on trucking.
Best regards,
Nemo
@ Saker
“…130-200 ex-hostages died due to the lack of adequate medical care as the doctors did not know what gas was used so they did not know what “reversal agent” to use…”
————————–
Conveniently, you forgot to add that Russian security services refused to reveal the identity of the toxic gas, adding to the frustration of the doctors fighting to save the victims.
Best regards,
Nemo
I agree: You wrote a very thorough analysis and extremely thoughtful response to these awful attacks.
BUT:
At least now all Western politicians will have to come to the Olympics in Sochi. Otherwise it might be rumoured that they know more about planned terrorist activities than they should…
The attackers might indeed be home grown terrorists – in fact, they probably are. But the manure on which Muslim home grown terrorists grow all over the world is still “Neo-Wahhabi ideology” (in the sense of neo-fundamentalism as defined by Olivier Roy – by the way: One of the best analysts of political Islam, albeit rather unknown in Anglo-American circles).
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112990/boston-marathon-bombing-2013-olivier-roy-modern-terrorism
http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2007-05-03-roy-en.html
@Nemo:
You:Conveniently, you forgot to add that Russian security services refused to reveal the identity of the toxic gas
Me:because the Russian medical services lacked the means to resuscitate such a large amount of people from a gas they knew nothing about.
a) If you cannot make a logical inference I cannot help you
b) You are assuming that knowing the name or even composition of the gas would be sufficient to change outcome (it would not – having more respirators would have)
c) “conveniently” – ugly innuendo.
Still, to clarify: no, the Russian security services did not reveal the nature of the gas as that would have been useless in the circumstances and wrong from the point of view of state security. Every other government out there would have done the same. Again, the only way to save more people would have been to have more reversal agent at hand and more respirators.
As for your best regards, after your “conveniently”, you can return them where they came from: your ass.
The Saker
@20000 leagues under the sea…
It is clear that some people “don’t get it”. They regret that the Russians did not flinch under the terror, as they clearly were expected to do. Putin was at fault because he refused to negociate. How uncivilized! He “exploits” US illegal overreach (as he shouldn’t). The animus against Putin is coming from the realization that he will keep his word that he would fight back and that is not posturing.
Have a rest in the octopuses garden,Captain.
WizOz
@Saker
Thanks for interesting details. And no matter how exactly it was done, it’s definitely a great example for Putin trying to to the utmost to limit the operation to a single target. Obama would just obliterate the guy and whoever happens to be in the vicinity using a drone, and if the first try doesn’t hit the actual target, then try again, and again, and again…
@Nemo Russian security forces response to terrorist attacks are notorious for the use of a sledge-hammer, stilettos not their weapon of choice (remember the Moscow theater, Beslan, even Chechnya’s second war)
Your examples are perfect for arguing the opposite, when compared to US actions. In the case of the theater and the school, Russian collateral damage is limited to a subset of the people actually at the scene at the time, and thus threatened by the terrorists in that very situation. But look at e.g. the reaction to 9/11 – even assuming the official USG story to be true. The US attacked Afghanistan, although the Taliban offered to extradite USB if given evidence, which the USG just flatly denied. (Besides, later USG just murdered the unarmed USB, rather than putting him in front of a US judge, who surely would have given him the death penalty for his earlier bombings before 9/11. Problem is: USB didn’t seem to have had a clue about 9/11, so an open trial would have become rather embarrassing for all US admins since Bush). USG then proceeded to Iraq, with 9/11 being one explanation: “Saddam supports terrorism”. And let’s not forget the totalitarian (NSA), partly fascist (companies collaborating with USG against citizens without judicial rulings) state the US has turned into.
The Chechnya war, albeit in no way as surgical as this Khattab operation – is at least a war fought in the place where the terrorists were hiding. Not some unrelated random other country.
What are your suggestions what Putin should have done? Tell the separatists to take over Chechnya? Apart from the fact that some of those guys intend to turn the whole Caucasus region into a caliphate, so giving them Chechnya would not only give away a part of Russia to them, but provide the separatists with a base for trying to take over the whole region.
Honk
Christmas/New Year Greetings from Rogozin on twitter:
https://twitter.com/Rogozin/status/416913238807560192/photo/1
I just love it!
@ Saker
Why, we cross?
Ironically, you are reacting in so much a way you’re counseling the Russians not to do: you’re shooting from the hip.
1)”Conveniently” in that context is not an innuendo, is a fact. You’re trying to make a point without providing all the facts available on the issue, so the reader can make an independent judgment. An integral aspect of being logical, is being objective.
2)I am not assuming anything. I know for a fact that for a majority of poisons there is an antidote, and when timely applied, lives can be saved. The assault to the Moscow Theater had to be planned meticulously, logistically and otherwise. As part of the planning they could have notified medical emergency services the proper antidote to use on the gas victims, period, without disclosing the gas composition. But the Russians knew their use of that kind of gas was borderline illegal, and in violation of Geneva conventions. Faced with a moral choice, they knowingly chose to risk the hostages lives.
3)I thought I was having a dialogue with a rational person, to my disappointment, you’re as vulgar as Joe-Six-Pack, running on an ego inflated by groupies who can’t see the holes in your pro-Putin tirades. Waste of time.
4)I believe you owe me an apology, but I don’t think you can reason that far into self-reflection.
Nemo
@Nemo: Why, we cross?
Yes, and I will explain. Earlier this evening I had to leave and I could not post more than a very short reply. Now I will explain why assholes like you offend me so much. You wrote this:
Russian security forces response to terrorist attacks are notorious for the use of a sledge-hammer, stilettos not their weapon of choice (remember the Moscow theater, Beslan, even Chechnya’s second war), showing a lack in sophistication at intelligence and operative levels
This is the typical garden variety Western propagandists/journalists which while knowing nothing about the reality they speak of, always blame the Russian security forces and underline their “lack of sophistication” and “notorious sledge-hammer” tactics.
In fact, if you look at the history of Soviet and, later, Russian anti-terrorists forces, created for the Moscow Olympics and later developed by the KGB you will find that their record of saving hostages is superior to any of their western counterparts – both in sheer numbers of operations and in the results of the execution. But being ignorant of that is not what disgusts me in you. After all – were would you get your info? No, what *really* bothers me is that you idiotically repeat a particularly nasty slander against the folks from Alpha and Vympel about Beslan. Now, again, I realize that your sources are what they are, but just for the record, let me explain something crucial to you: the sequence of events which actually took place.
The Russians never stormed the school. What happened is this: for some unknown reason, one of the bombs detonated. At this point, LOCAL CIVILIANS including parents (who were armed, which is normal in that region) SPONTANEOUSLY ran towards the school to try to free the kids. This is when the Alpha and Vympel operators decided to JOIN IN the attack to help. Many of them actually jumped in through windows and doors KNOWING FULL WELL that armed terrorists were expecting them behind and but they decided that they had to take the bullets to protect the storming distressed parents and civilians and take down as many terrorists as possible AT THE DELIBERATE COSTS OF THEIR LIVES. That day over 100 storming civilians died and as for the Spetsnaz units they took the worst toll in their entire history: 10 of their officers died, many more were severely wounded and a lot for life. From over 1000 hostages about 200 also died. But 800 walked away.
Now let me ask you:
1) When is the last time Western anti-terrorist forces had to deal with terrorists holding ONE THOUSAND HOSTAGES?
2) In Beslan and Moscow, the Russian anti-terrorists freed 80% of these hostages. Which country has ever done better?
3) When is the last time when SAS, Delta, GIGN or GSG9 officers had to literally used their bodies for shields and had to jump inside a building KNOWING FULL WELL THAT A HAIL OF BULLETS WOULD MEET THEM?
4) Or this – what does Delta have to show? No Desert One. Not Grenada or Panama either (LOL!). Not Waco, TX (Where they had no right to be anyway). When is the last time Delta operators ever had to fight some real, determined and sophisticated terrorist force (as opposed to clueless African gunmen). And that is the “best of the best” of a superpower’s military establishment?
to be continued…
… continuation and end:
So I understand that you did not know. But you know what? I happen to have met Vympel officers myself, some became my friends. And where I hear any ignorant asshole parroting the usual BBC crap (even using the same expressions) I see the faces of my friends and the images of their widows and I get mad, really mad, because I realize that folks like you don’t have 1% of the courage, integrity and humanity that these guys have. I usually don’t mind an ignoramus too much, but don’t go spitting on the tombs of heroes!
And then this: the Russians knew their use of that kind of gas was borderline illegal, and in violation of Geneva conventions. Faced with a moral choice, they knowingly chose to risk the hostages lives.
Wow! You are such an arrogant moron you don’t even know that the Geneva conventions apply to situations of WAR, not police operations. You actually accuse the Russians of chemical warfare, it would be hilarious if it came in a joke, but coming from a pompous ass like its only sickening.
Dude, I don’t know what you are doing for a living, but if you are not a journalist there is a career out there waiting for you. You got all the typical combination of arrogance and ignorance, all glued together with a toxic condescending hostility western Kulturtrager who just never doubts his superiority and right to an opinion based on nothing but his own limitations.
The good news is that your Empire is dying, hated and despised by an entire planet sick of arrogant assholes like you. In the meantime – keep watching TV, that is the only world you can relate to.
My apology to you will be this: I am truly sorry that I have no words to convey to you how utterly repulsive, stupid and ignorant you and your likes are to the rest of mankind: your arrogance, stupidity and ignorance will forever shield you from the awareness of how you appear to others.
I will be done done with you as soon as I post this, flush my mental toilet, and turn on the more interesting matters. You are welcome to continue to post here, but don’t expect any more replies from me.
The Saker
@WizOz: yes, you are right and I should have ignored that creep too, but every time I think of Beslan or Nord-Ost I think of my Vympel friends and their families and I just feel that I cannot shut up. I know, its not like the dead care, and this ain’t gonna help their widows, but somewhere somebody has to speak up especially if, like I, he knows the truth and the depth of the lie which is repeated about it.
Also, keep in mind that it’s not that he “don’t get it”. I know the type well, and “he don’t need to get it” “kuz he knows he is better” (-: more sophisticated :-). And the more you prove to him that he is wrong, the more superior he feels. So really, my reply to him was not as much an attempt to prove anything to that guy, but a way to set the record straight for the other readers here who might never have come across the truth about what really happened and who are also exposed to the same systematic Anglo propaganda.
Аnyway, this is a case of “Не трогай говно, оно вонять не будет” so I am done with this.
Cheers,
The Saker
@ Old auntie: yes, Rogozin is fantastic. I think that the is the Prez Russia needs after Putin retires. As an ambassador to NATO he did a stellar job and now he is seriously kicking some ass in the defense and aerospace industries, and God knows the latter were in big need of many such hard kicks…
Rogozin also has a priceless quality in common with Putin: he is an excellent speaker and debater and he will run circles around the always hyper-liberal Russian press.
Cheers,
The Saker
[…] The US social and political fabric is a lot more sophisticated and complex than Russia’s, where imposing a government like Putin’s, moving at will from President to PM and vice versa, would be absolutely unthinkable. […]
Nemo, a country where first Papa Bush and 8 years later his ignoramus son is declared president, or first Clinton and years later possibly his wife run the show, doesn’t indicate a more complex or sophisticated political fabric. If anything it is a dead give away that the citizenry would be just as happy to live in a monarchy.
@Nemo me impune lacessit…
It is good to slap this kind of know-it-all for their own benefit. They perhaps do not realize that they are living a dangerous delusion, not that of their superiority (this is the hardest to heal), but that their opponents are weaklings, wimps, unsophisticated, boorish, stupid and therefore incapable of reaction. You still hear “analysts” (from the part of the body they think and reason with) pontificating “No matter what Russia does, she cannot project power”, therefore encouraging hotheads to tease the bear (like the stupid kids who tease the bear in zoos believing that is the nice Teddy Bear of cartoons, only to be mauled).
I remember the 2008 moment. The TV was still showing “the ragtag Russian army” and the “rusty tanks panting and wreaking on a winding road to Georgia”, when all the circus was already terminated. Days after the total collapse of the tie-eater the “analysts” were still talking about the “shortcommings”, the “unpreparedness” of the Ruskis (who had no night-vision goggles)!
Or like the idiots who think that they would bring down Putin if they put scatterbrained Pussies and Femens to throw their legs in the air or expose their tits.
LOL
WizOz
Wow, what a temper tantrum!!!
A true show of irrationality for everyone to see. Thanks for revealing your true self, you have not much depth after all, yet another inflated ego whose words don’t match his deeds.
Clearly, you are a by-product of the post-modern Russian “nomenklatura” a former third-class agent of sorts, resentful of the West and of Russia’s overall backwardness, an arrogant know-it-all who following his mentor, Putin, likes to impose his opinion on others by hook or by crook, unless they are your Oh, whataboy! crowd.
Your insults only show the level you can stoop to when your clay feet are shown, as no one can insult me without my consent. You’re only showing the low class of the Russian spirit, not the Onegin kind, but that of Rasputin and Stalin’s bastard children, layered with a thin veneer of schooling, probably in the West you so much hate, but clearly lacking education, let alone culture.
In summary, another fake and phony russky with intellectual pretensions, no more no less. A waste of time.
From now on, you and your blog are being relegated to the end of the internet, if there is any, where peabrains like you belong.
Nemo
As to Nemo’s point about the domestic situation in the USSA not being so bad, well, that’s quite debatable. The attitude of almost all government agencies has become quite imperious, and it’s not exactly a mystery as to why the police now look like they are from Star Wars.
In fact, I’d argue that the USSA is one of the less free countries on Earth. It’s foolish to think that the nastiness shown in foreign policy won’t come home. What goes around, comes around.
By the way, you should write some fairly definitive articles about the terror events that are blamed on Russia. Many well-intentioned folks believe that the KGB crowd was behind a lot of things. This is especially true on the right/libertarian side in the US political framework. In my opinion, some of these alternative right speakers and writers are way too friendly to FBI and CIA sources.
Paul
Nemo, could you please, get your explicitly polite, troll like, pseudoliberal, “let me tell you how to mange your internal affairs” kind of annoying discourse, follow the advise of the host at stack it inside your asshole. Aah.. and do it in the most rational way you can manage. And when you are done, turn on your tv-set, switch to Fox or some of the other Nazy propaganda shitholes and get your share of well presented, objective and corresponding to reality news. Ones you are done, you will never again consider going back to read the irrational, manipulative posts here..
@Nemo?
He’s a real Nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Doesn’t have a point of view,
Knows not where he’s going to,
Isn’t he a bit like you and me?
Nowhere Man please listen,
You don’t know what you’re missing,
Nowhere Man,the world is at your command!
(The Beatles)
> > As for your best regards, after your “conveniently”, you can return them where they came from: your ass.
> 4)I believe you owe me an apology,
I concur.
> but I don’t think you can reason that far into self-reflection.
I still hope Nemo is wrong here.
Dissenting views should be regarded as an opportunity to respond with actual arguments, without slinging mud.
Honk
Nemo,
Actually, you sound like a member of the nomenklatura, and that’s being kind. It’s like you wrote from a BBC script.
This blog has had plenty of criticisms of modern Russia.
Paul
As I said, I don’t know much about Russian politics but even I noticed Rogozin’s talents when he was at Brussels. He not only ran circles around his NATO counterparts, he also made fun of the EU bureaucrats every now and than.
Concerning “a country where first Papa Bush and 8 years later his ignoramus son is declared president”: One could say it’s a hereditary democracy (as distinguished from a hereditary monarchy). Bush dynasty and all (even a “Georgian” dynasty, isn’t it?).
What’s more: Is there a role allocation between a president and a prime minister (PM) in the USA? That would be news to me. As far as I know, the US president is both head of state and head of government at the same time. So on this point, the “US social and political fabric” would be a lot less “sophisticated and complex” than Russia’s, if I am right.
Back to the subject in question: What do you think of this analysis of Saudi Arabia:
“in the last 30 years, the KSA’s population has increased four-fold – from 5 to 20 million people …. The country’s internal consumption of petroleum products has increased accordingly. It now constitutes 28% of the total volume of oil production …. If no decisive measures are undertaken, then by 2030 the country will be consuming nearly all of its oil. This means the KSA’s death since the country does not have any other significant sources of revenue, apart from oil. And they are unlikely to appear considering the complete closure by 2016 of the majority of the agricultural projects (…) generating exports because of the depletion of water sources.” (Pogos Anastasov: Saudi Oil Who Needs It?)
http://journal-neo.org/2013/12/26/rus-saudovskaya-neft-komu-ona-nuzhna/
I don’t know anything about either the analyst or the journal, but if the numbers are correct, to me the conclusion sounds compelling.
As to the preventive steps named in this article from “the voice of reason”: I have the impression the KSA seeks another way out of the fix, namely exporting the younger sons for the purpose of killing and getting killed. And sowing chaos on the way in other countries and the opportunity for a little blackmail every once in a while.
@Old auntie: If no decisive measures are undertaken, then by 2030 the country will be consuming nearly all of its oil. This means the KSA’s death since the country does not have any other significant sources of revenue, apart from oil.
Actually, this is a problem for all/most oil producing countries – sooner or later the oil stops. So they all are trying to prepare for that moment by developing a local non-oil economy, by investing their revenues in long-term projects and by developing civilian nuclear and oil refining capabilities to use less and make more money from what they produce. Still, there is a very real problem and at least the Iranians and Russians are aware of it and have plenty of other resources. The KSA has nothing at all, at least as far as I know. Now some countries with no energy (Japan) or very little natural resources (Switzerland) did very well, by offering services or manufacturing capabilities, but the Gulf monarchies would be trying to enter the market in a bad time and with no particular advantage to offer.
So yup, this is definitely one more stress factor on the KSA.
Cheers,
The Saker
@Paul:you should write some fairly definitive articles about the terror events that are blamed on Russia. Many well-intentioned folks believe that the KGB crowd was behind a lot of things
Which ones did you have in mind? If it is the famous apartment building bombings in 1999 then that would be hard to do for me as I have not reached a personal conclusion on this one myself. I personally doubt that a Russian security service did it, but I cannot exclude that either because of the utter chaos Russia was in in 1999. I also cannot put it beyond the Russians to do their own false flag operation and the cui bono argument clearly points at those forces who wanted to get the Russian public opinion really outraged at Chechen terrorism. Again, I am not saying that the Russians did it, only that I have no basis to affirm that they did not.
If you have other cases of suspected KGB terror in mind, please let me know, ok?
Cheers,
The Saker
Very nice reply Saker. I’m definitely a groupie now! Happy new year.
People posting on your blog, excluding a few, are brilliant. Will restrict myself to reading.
Mindfriedo
Indeed, what to do when the raw materials run out? That’s a problem of all exporters of commodities. Dubai tries to become a financial hub. They have a long history of piracy and trade just as Dhofar has a long history of trade and smuggling (coming into fashion again: gold to India). Qatar tries to become a news hub. Others hope for tourism.
So what could KAS do? Export camels? Not enough water left for agriculture. And according to the cited analysis, long before the oil wells will be drying up the problem of KAS will be too many inhabitants using up all the still flowing oil. The hypothesis is that they might rather export superfluous younger sons for takfiri activities.
Would there be a blowback for Saudi Arabia from doing?
Most analyst seem to think so:
Yazid Sayegh of the Carnegie Middle East Centre highlights succinctly the risks involved in the venture: “Saudi Arabia could find itself replicating its experience in Afghanistan, where it built up disparate mujahedin groups that lacked a unifying political framework. The forces were left unable to govern Kabul once they took it, paving the way for the Taliban to take over. Al-Qa’ida followed, and the blowback subsequently reached Saudi Arabia.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/mass-murder-in-the-middle-east-is-funded-by-our-friends-the-saudis-8990736.html
Patrick Cockburn writes: “There is now a fast-expanding pool of jihadis willing to fight and die anywhere. The Saudis and the Gulf monarchies may find, as happened in Afghanistan 30 years ago, that, by funding or tolerating the dissemination of Sunni-Shia hate, they have created a sectarian Frankenstein’s monster of religious fanatics beyond their control.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/sunni-monarchs-back-youtube-hate-preachers-antishia-propaganda-threatens-a-sectarian-civil-war-which-will-engulf-the-entire-muslim-world-9028538.html
Gary Brecher on the contrary opines that there will be no blowback at all. And what’s more:
“If you come from a world like that, you would naturally want to do your violence, like your drinking and whoring, across the border. And that’s why the Saudi authorities have every reason to let those dangerous young men fly out of Riyadh to make jihad in Syria.”
http://pando.com/2013/12/19/the-war-nerd-saudis-syria-and-blowback/
By the way, on the bombing of the Khobar towers there is additional information here:
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2011/11/05/its-worth-reading-this-again-and-considering-what-it-implies/
Hi Saker,
so true about nemo’s BBC script: to the T! Some “people’s rights”! Hahahaha! In the US with all the secret prisons around the world, shameless airport searching of everybody, the NSA’s all-seeing eye, mentioned dynasties (what about the unelected banking ones who actually rule behind the scene for a century?), the quasi-electoral system, etc. Too funny to call it freedom!
BTW, Duma, after the Beslan tragedy, voted a law which limits the access of media to such places in the future. Is there any solid reason why?
As for Berezovsky & Khodorkovsky, ladder was the trigger, & former was the operator—with a little help from his British friends—me thinks. You might be right regarding the Khodorkovsky not being the direct cause though–for, what was then the real cause for the theater takeover in Moscow in 2002?
No doubt, however, that the Russian special forces did awesome jobs given the awful situations they were facing. BTW, it was precisely the Beslan school massacre which triggered my interest into the bestiality behind such acts never seen before. Satan himself was visible in the air! I learned so much through that info digging, & many things became self-explanatory. Oh, how little I was aware of such evil forces existing in this world & of their identity!
Lastly, how true is that Berezovsky was even bragging about starting the first Chechen war? I am also sure that he had at least some involvement in the Moscow buildings bombings; remember, he was running the security service. The West was getting ready for Russia’s burial (or so they thought), & that was one of the nails in its coffin. I think they imagined for some time being in total control of Russia even after Putin’s appearance on the scene. Hence the later retaliations once they realized it was not so.
Best!
@Sokenekos: well, if there was something which the Russian security forces did wrong in Beslan then it was not to completely cordon off the area and push all the families and civilians back. Also, they failed to disarm these civilians. But none of that was the doing of the specialized anti-terrorist forces (Spetsnaz Alpha and, to a lesser degree, Spetsnaz Vympel) who do not do crowd control. Look, by any objective evaluation the situation in Beslan was terrible and very poorly managed, I will never argue the contrary, but what I will say is that even though the Spetsnaz forces had ZERO responsibility for the mess they spontaneously, repeat *SPONTANEOUSLY* (as is “*not* under orders”!!) rushed in to save and protect as many people they could even though they understood that the only way to do that was to literally use their bodies as shields. Now, it is true that these guys do were body armor and special helmets, but make no mistake, at close range a full-auto burst of bullets from an AKM-74 is going to maim/kill you regardless, and no body armor will save you from hand grenades or IEDs. What these guys did that day in Belsan was an act of absolute heroism of which I know of no parallel and 10 of their best operators died that day eating the bullets for the civilians. I honestly don’t think that western anti-terrorist forces would have shown such amazing and, frankly, suicidal courage without one second of hesitation and with no orders to do so. This tells you something about the mindset of these people.
So yes, when I see some mental cockroach parrot the disgusting BBC lies about that it does make me mad. I think that getting mad is the right thing to do in specific circumstances and I did “smell out” this guy correctly a seen in the dense amount russophobic cliches in his subsequent reaction. So far from apologizing for anything, I think that I hit it ‘bullseye’ with my first short comment :-)
And if there had been at least one example of any anti-terrorist force in history dealing with 1000 hostages taken by highly skille terrorists and then feeing 800-900 of them, then I would be willing to see as an “argument” a critical review of the performance of the Russians. But since nothing like that ever happened elsewhere, I fail to see any “argument” in simply parroting condescending lies about those who died that day.
But hey, to each his own, if some see that as an “argument” no problem as long as I am free to express my feelings the way I set fit :-)
As for Berezovksy, I don’t know that he bragged about starting the first Chechen war, but that he was hugely implicated and playing a double game against the Russian side is beyond any doubt. Why/how Eltsin and his clique let a Zionist be a secretary of the Russian Security Council is anyone’s guess…
Trust a Zionist and you deserve what you get imho.
Cheers!
The Saker
@VINEYARDSAKER
Has anyone actually tried to look over the court cases over the years of those tried and convicted of the apartment bombings and the evidence liking Khattab?
As far as I know there have been 3 in total I think that was a normal civil court not a special military tribuneral like with the US.
Like 9/11 the proof of burden it to actually prove it was a false flag attack that there is no credible evidence as far as I’m aware with the apartment bombings.
@Jack: I have to tell you that I am replying to you with lots of reservations, since you took the outrageous stance that it was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that 911 was an inside job, specifically that WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 were brought down by controlled demolition. It is obvious to me that anybody with a highschool level of physics can convince himself/herself of that in less than 30 minutes of Internet use. Why you would deny it I don’t know (and, frankly, I don’t care), but it does tell me that facts+logic is not your cup of tea (for whatever reason).
Still, I will answer you by saying that I am unaware of any lawsuit still pursued in Russia, but please keep in mind that the court system is such a pathetically corrupt thing in Russia that this proves nothing: you could not prove that the earth is round in a Russian court if the flat earth society was better connected or had more money than you…
Cheers,
The Saker
PS: don’t bother trying to drag me into a 911 discussion. That is not a topic I will discuss with you, sorry.
@Saker
it’s hard to say if the police was able to put cordon between the school & the relatives outside. IMHO, even if it were, it would have been broken sooner than later. They were the kids’ closest relatives after all, not caring an iota for their own lives, & ready to do everything w/out realizing they did more damage than anything else. Worst of all, special forces needed time & space to react properly.
There was no question about their heroism!
The attack was carefully planned to the last bit (in Qatar, mossad / cia / mi6), including the element of total surprise – everyone in Russia was caught off guard. And who, after all, in their darkest calculations from the Russian intelligence sources, could predict such a possibility? It was a morbid design beyond the realm of the sickest mind amongst Russia’s enemies. In fact, it tops the list of morbidity of all terrorist attacks ever committed! I was literally sick from it, couldn’t’ walk straight during those awful days.
Apropos Berezovsky, the whole Yeltsin god was ran by the Zionist scum; Khodorkovsky was giving oil for free to Israhell for ten straight years. Was that louse, Koziryev, one of them as well? He did us so much harm during 90s. Speaking of that, notice the pattern: zionazis were trying to buy muslim love with our blood, Serbian & Russian, hence the wars in Bosnia & Chechnia which shouldn’t have happend, & their Gerbil’s-like media exploitation, for which they were solely started. Even that sick ghoul, Bibi, hosted a muslim family from Bosnia during 90s while hoping for an eternal peace with the Palestinians from the Oslo peace process which was going on at the time. When it failed, they returned to their good old apartheid, while trying to cement the “achievement’s” made during the 90s – just in case. E.g., the so-called tribunal in the Hague has been run by the mossad personell from the beginning – including the latest one, Theodor Meron.
And thanks for the answer(s), so much good stuff on this blog . . . must read it.
Best!
I just happened on this blog following links about Syria
I thought this was an interesting article at first, then I saw the language. Then the comments. How can I recommend this article about the Caucasus terrorists from someone who seems very knowledgeable when it is laden with pure western and jew hate ? Who believes in an ‘inside job’ for 9/11 ?
I know that Russians and the ‘west’ (who is that ?) seem to be locked in some new cold war. I am very scared for my children, why does there have to be bloc against bloc ? Hasn’t there been enough conflict and hundreds of millions of dead in a century ? Surely there’s no need for this visceral hatred ?
As a European, French, but also Brit, I’ve seen the efforts to overcome those centuries of wars. I don’t feel there is anything like the same hatred towards Russians. There isn’t a huge ‘plot’ against Russia. Why be so paranoid ? Why join those ultras who give such a bad reputation, why not be more neutral and work towards undoing the old ingrained hatreds and bitterness ?
Surely the best way is to recognize the things in common, recognize the problems but not be continually on the warpath against ‘the west’ ‘the zionists’, its ludicrous.
It’s almost certain that most people tend to defend their country, they learn this, more or less so depending on the country. Some might be ashamed and wish to leave. Some work to improve it, or totally change it. Humans are imperfect creatures that have emotions and are very easily influenced and as children suffer all sorts of brainwashing, especially from religions but also ideologies.
I suffered it as a child, but managed to realize how it works. The brain is ‘wired’ and the neuronal pathways created subsist into adulthood. You are religious it seems.
I think intellectuals should try to rise above the fray and imagine they can see things with an eternal eye, from the stars so to speak, then they can leave important things when they die, that can benefit mankind.
You quote famous people in your column on the left, but from the bible, nobody knows who wrote what, nor what is true. But today, you can write what is true at least in a form that explains at least that truth is relative.
In essence, countries are all artificial, and are simply humans fighting each other for turf or ideas, or worse, beliefs.
Today it’s all of that, with ressources being the big thing, as we are so numerous that we can’t feed everyone. We should follow the Chinese example with less brutality.
The one thing that I agre with you is the wahabi threat, but its not the only one. Muslim extremism is everywhere. And islam is the most primitive and useless religion, if one can call any religion useful.
You promote Iran, Syrian regime and Hezbollah as a bulwark against KSA and sunni extremism.
I ask you, what would you feel if you had spent ten years in Syrias prisons just for promoting democracy say, in 2005 ? Or as a young activist in a protest in 2011 with weeks or months of torture ? Do you really think that Iran is a model, that they don’t torture and imprison people even without trial ? Do you really think that torture or serious abuse doesn’t happen in Russian prisons ? Why do young women dancing in a church get sent to a gulag ?! A gulag, where out of sight out of mind, and sadist overseers ! At most these women would have got a couple of months prison for some sort of misdemeanor in the west, or nothing.
Yet you love Dieudonné, who turned from left to extreme right and insults jews, yet these girls can’t insult the christian church ?
There are things that one can disagree with or even hate about Israeli policies, or jewish beliefs, (many are atheists BTW) but the way you portray them are like the nazis did. Are you a nazi fan ?
Why bring up continually these old sectarian hatreds and create new ones ?
Why don’t you use your obvious extensive knowledge to better purposes ?
yours
Hi Saker!
And a happy new year too.
“As a result, there are cases of ethnic Russians who are involved in Wahabi terrorist acts. The bottom line is this: Wahabi terrorism in Russia is not a regional problem or an ethnic problem – it is an ideological problem”
An angle well worth noting
The ethnic Russians indoctrinated by an insane ideology
I almost wonder if western intelligence is exploiting the ethnic Russian population for the very reason that it would be more difficult to track them.
Blending seamlessly into the society
There have been a few cases in US and Canada that we were supposed to believe were these anglo terrorists and they were so absurd
It appears they were created to keep the fear going, the societal fear of terrorism
But in Russia, a nation targeted by the NATO nutters, these people would serve an entirely different agenda
I had a piece up at my place and it almost seemed that the so called officials were bragging about this perceived weakness in Russia intelligence…
Exploit a weakness?
from the article-
” There’s also agreement that the Russian security forces have focused on stopping attacks like Beslan, and that the lack of centralized control gives terrorists an advantage. “The security services are trained to prevent and repel that kind of attack,” said Trenin. “Dealing with smaller attacks and smaller groups, which is now the preferred tactic of the terrorists, that is something the services still have to learn.”
“The job of stopping terror attacks is made still harder by the recent turn toward “Russian Muslims” as suicide bombers — meaning ethnic Slavs who have converted (or so the story goes…) to Islam and can blend into Russian society until they’re ready to strike”
However, I can’t imagine that this change in terror candidates is lost on Russian intel as they had the airport bomber in Moscow who was an ethnic Russian
As for Dagestan
Home of the boston bombers….
Sigh..
the curse of living in interesting times eh saker?!
@Anonymous:How can I recommend this article about the Caucasus terrorists from someone who seems very knowledgeable when it is laden with pure western and jew hate ? Who believes in an ‘inside job’ for 9/11 ?
I dunno and that is your problem, not mine. I happen to sincerely believe that 911 was an inside job. Not only that, but I do believe that anybody with a high-school level of understanding of Newtonian physics can convince himself/herself of that in 30 minutes of Internet browsing. As for “jew hate” – where in the world did you see that in what I write?!
I won’t bother going into the rest of what you wrote, here is why: there a decision which YOU have to make and which nobody can take for you. Can you or can you not set aside your ideological certitudes and pursue the fact wherever they lead you? What is more precious to you – comforting certitudes or the truth, however scary and disturbing it might be?
Do you remember the movie Matrix? When Morpheus tells Neo:
You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and you believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. Remember that all I am offering is the truth. Nothing more.
This is exactly my message to you. You must make a choice between comfortable illusions and a painful reality. This blog is all about the latter. But the choice is yours.
Kind regards,
The Saker
@Penny: greetings my friend!
As for Dagestan. Home of the boston bombers.
Well, assuming the two Tsarnaev brothers did it – which I doubt – they were Chechens, not Dagestani. In fact, their relatives were well-known in Chechnia for being very close to the Kadyrov regime, so I have HUGE doubts about their guilt. And the fact that the FBI had to murder Ibragim Todashev (http://rt.com/usa/todashev-father-letter-obama-998/) in cold blood and in the most vicious manner makes me very much doubt the official line on this story.
What do you think?
Cheers,
The Saker
@ VINEYARDSAKER:
You sound like a priest.
I don’t take pills.
As for 9/11 stop taking people for idiots ‘a high school physics etc’
I was there in front of my screen when it happened.
And I saw all the weirdo websites pop up immediately, claiming things from quick photos, then all the ‘aliens in the sky’ stuff, then the ‘experts on engineering’ types,.
Since then it’s become a stupid political crazy war.
There were warnings that some didn’t listen to. There were a few other things but, you, who hate the Ksa, I can’t see why you refuse to admit that these were majority Saudis, from the UK london ‘hub’, … but as you say, you don’t want to talk about it, so my advice would be to take the pill of ‘painfull reality’ that you so arrogantly tell me. Get real man. Paranoia is a disease, I only wanted to say you have talent but are wasting it. IMHO
otherwise not point in discussing this further.
@Anonymous:
You sound like a priest.
Thank you, that is high praise indeed. I wish I deserved such a compliment…
I don’t take pills.
We all do, whether we are aware of it or not.
I was there in front of my screen when it happened.
Yes, that is part of the problem, indeed.
then all the ‘aliens in the sky’ stuff
On the same TV screen, no doubt…
Get real man. Paranoia is a disease
In our world, the former requires the latter, alas.
otherwise not point in discussing this further.
Indeed. This is the best I can do for you:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-am-i-not-hearing-endless-rumble-of.html
You have to take it from here and pursue the truth on your own. It took me eight years. I hope that you will be faster.
Good luck and kind regards,
The Saker
Hi Saker
Do I think the Tsarnev brothers were the real boston bombers
Not likely.
Patsies? More likely
It seems to me, from circumstances surrounding that incident, that the bombers were the private security.
The heavy involvement of Israel in the boston situation is very suspicious. Very, very suspicious.
The chechen / dagestan confusion?
It seems at some point in time the Tsarnevs moved to Dagestan
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/26/world/europe/tsarnaevs-news-conference-a-transcript.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&smid=tw-share&
this would explain why they brother (older one) visited for a lengthy time frame.
It also would have made him a perfect fall guy
While he was there did he go to any of the training camps?
Has anyone really made this case?
I don’t think so.
The uncle in the US was interesting?
He fed the appropriate narrative right away- had many interesting ties
The Uncle reeked of spook so he could have set the boys up?
Ibragim Todashev
definitely a murder
definitely to silence him
and right before he was to leave the country
all to convenient
once outside of the US he could have talked…
I think like myself, you have every reason to believe boston was not as we are told
but then, what ever is?