Check out this story by AP and compare the lame, pathetic and self-evident nonsense of these so-called “intelligence officials” offer with the hard fact based presentation of the Russian Air Force Chief of Staff.
Here is the full article with my comments in blue.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for “creating the conditions” that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.
The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.
The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in discussing intelligence related to last week’s air disaster, which killed 298 people.
The plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, the intelligence officials said, citing intercepts, satellite photos and social media postings by separatists, some of which have been authenticated by U.S. experts.
But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives were present at the missile launch. They were not certain that the missile crew was trained in Russia, although they described a stepped-up campaign in recent weeks by Russia to arm and train the rebels, which they say has continued even after the downing of the commercial jetliner.
In terms of who fired the missile, “we don’t know a name, we don’t know a rank and we’re not even 100 percent sure of a nationality,” one official said, adding at another point, “There is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here.”
White House deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes said the U.S. was still working to determine whether the missile launch had a “direct link” to Russia, including whether there were Russians on the ground during the attack and the degree to which Russians may have trained the separatists to launch such a strike.
“We do think President Putin and the Russian government bears responsibility for the support they provided to these separatists, the arms they provided to these separatists, the training they provided as well and the general unstable environment in eastern Ukraine,” Rhodes said in an interview with CNN.
He added that heavy weaponry continues to flow into Ukraine from Russia following the downing of the plane.
The intelligence officials said the most likely explanation for the downing was that the rebels made a mistake. Separatists previously had shot down 12 Ukrainian military airplanes, the officials said.
The officials made clear they were relying in part on social media postings and videos made public in recent days by the Ukrainian government, even though they have not been able to authenticate all of it. For example, they cited a video of a missile launcher said to have been crossing the Russian border after the launch, appearing to be missing a missile.
But later, under questioning, the officials acknowledged they had not yet verified that the video was exactly what it purported to be.
Despite the fuzziness of some details, however, the intelligence officials said the case that the separatists were responsible for shooting down the plane was solid. Other scenarios — such as that the Ukrainian military shot down the plane — are implausible, they said. No Ukrainian surface-to-air missile system was in range. (That is a lie as proven by the Russian satellite imagery and signal intercepts which prove that they Ukies had plenty of batteries freshly brought right next to the combat zone even though the Novorissians had just one Su-25 close air support aircraft in their entire inventory)
From satellites, sensors and other intelligence gathering, officials said, they know where the missile originated — in separatist-held territory — and what its flight path was. But if they possess satellite or other imagery of the missile being fired, they did not release it Tuesday. A graphic they made public depicts their estimation of the missile’s flight path with a green line. The jet’s flight path was available from air traffic control data.
In the weeks before the plane was shot down, Russia had stepped up its arming and training of the separatists after the Ukrainian government won a string of battlefield victories. The working theory is that the SA-11 missile came from Russia, although the U.S. doesn’t have proof of that, the officials said.
U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power said last week that “because of the technical complexity of the SA-11, it is unlikely that the separatists could effectively operate the system without assistance from knowledgeable personnel. Thus, we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems,” she said.
Asked about evidence, one of the senior U.S. intelligence officials said it was conceivable that Russian paramilitary troops are operating in eastern Ukraine, but that there was no direct link from them to the missile launch.
Asked why civilian airline companies were not warned about a possible threat, the officials said they did not know the rebels possessed SA-11 missiles until after the Malaysian airliner was shot down. (WHAT? Even I new this, just by reading the reports about the seized Buks, reports which even included photos. They are really insulting our collective intelligence again!)
Have you counted the “caveat words”? I counted fifteen (depending on what you want to include). Notice that they consider the Ukie missile as “implausible” but that they never explain why this would be implausible. And they admit relying in part on social media and Ukie government info? How absolutely utterly pathetic. I mean – I feel sorry for them. For any self-respecting intelligence official to admit such things is to commit a seppuku of your professional pride. It’s admitting that you are an amateur and a drooling moron. And here is the deal – I very much doubt that these men are amateurs or morons. So, yet again, they were back-stabbed by imbecile politicians like Obama and Power who just are not used to consulting with their own specialist before flapping their lips and nevermind if they make an entire intelligence community look like cretins.
I can barely imaging how much the US intelligence community must *hate* this administration. Can you imagine what it must be to be a highly experienced US State Department or DIA career officer and listen to how the Russians constantly berate the US government for being “un-professional” and “amateurish” only to then hear that kind of absolute utter nonsense spoken in your name.
Look, in this game I am 100% on Russia’s side, but part of me, on a (ex-) professional level if you want, feels the pain that I am sure many career intelligence officers feel today in the USA and they have my sincere sympathy. I met enough of them to know that they are not the idiots that this Administration makes them out to be.
But of course the big news here is this: the US fairy tale about Putin the terrorist is falling down in flames. Yet again the Neocons by their sheer arrogance, hubris and boundless stupidity manged to lie their way into a corner from which there is no exit. Not that the US had much street-cred anyway, not after Colin Powell’s dishwasher powder in a vial at the UNSC. But, of course, there is bad, very bad, even worse and outright terrible. But now the US has reached the “terminal” stage.
The AngloZionists sure had this one coming.
The Saker
PS: in the meantime, check the zoo that the freaks in Kiev made of their “Parliament”:
What is the US intelligence budget? and they have to rely on unverified social media to make an intelligence assessment? They have a fkn spy satellite perched above Ukraine but they don’t know what traffic is crossing the border except through FB posts? OK whatever.
The insanity here is that people are still lapping this stuff up and the major media is full of it – with NO responsible rebuttals. Moreover, they may even get away with it and the EVIL perpetrators will not see justice. AND they are still using it to push sanctions on Russia. Its killing me.
You can take just about every point made in that so called article and turn it 180 degrees and be a lot closer to being accurate than as it is written… utter rubbish.
As far as that video, at least they have some kind of fight left in them as compared to the US Congress who just act like confused robots who go along with anything.
lost the link to the original article written in 2008 but here is a new translation from Russian to English just put out. No wonder Russia was so prepared to secure Crimea.
Obama would start WWIII from Crimea – 2008 political analyst forecast
http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_03_21/Obama-to-start-WWIII-from-Crimea-2008-political-analyst-forecast-4562/
Saker, you think this was enough compromise to satisfy the Kremlin?
CDN says:
Inspection of the wreckage of MH17 should provide evidence to confirm or deny the US position.
If their allegations are correct then the SA-11 missile would have flown toward MH17. Since the missile contains a proximity fuse it is expected that it will explode approximately 60 feet from the aircraft and drive shrapnel toward the aircraft.
We can therefore expect significant damage to nose sections of the aircraft and along the wing leading edges with minimal damage to the fuselage and tail.
If the missile was fired from UAF positions then it should have engaged in a “chase mode” and exploded at or near the rear of the plane. The damage pattern should be significantly different in this case with much damage to the rear portion of the fuselage to the tail assembly and to the trailing edges of the wings. The cockpit area should not show any evidence of missile damage.
The available evidence will depend on the damage sustained on ground impact. If the aircraft fell nose first then much of the cockpit area will be totally destroyed either from the impact or from the fire that followed.
@ the pessimist
Just think what they missed during the Cuban missile crisis with out twitter and facebook. The horror of that thought will keep me up all night… jk
Update: Photographic evidence from crash site suggests crashed plane is the missing MH370. http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/
If this is true someone has some explaining to do. It is really hard to believe that both the Russian and US military intelligence have no idea where MH370 really went – they’re just not saying. This is really starting to piss me off.
Along with Obama, Kerry, Powers, US intelligence has to worry about the loose cannons running Kiev. The Empire may have given the green light on this false flag but it was run by the Ukrainians and they screwed up. And this is just the beginning.
And from everything I’ve been seeing lately, the odds are the rebels did not have a BUK at all. The *one* tweet on June 29th is claimed to be false and all the photos and videos have been located in Ukie territory. A BUK is never mentioned in any of the reports from Strelkov’s official site. I’m sure the UK will doctor the flight recorder tapes or something tho.. :
let me modify vlad’s text for clarity:
Along with Barak Sotero,, John Kohn, Samantha Sunstein, US intelligence has to worry about the loose cannons running Kiev. The Empire may have given the green light on this false flag but it was run by the Ukrainian dual natuonals and they screwed up. And this is just the beginning.
Great comment
The story of “looting separatists” also went down like the lame newspaper canard it was:
“Perverted truth: How rebel mourning MH17 victims was turned into looter with trophy”
http://rt.com/news/174332-ukraine-plane-photo-perverted/
And there is at least one Malaysian demanding his newspapers to apologize:
„MH 17 – Malaysian Mass Media Which Parroted Uncritically Zionist Controlled Global Mass Media Propaganda Against Russia Must Now Prostrate In Shame And Apologise To President Putin And The Ukrainian Resistance – By Matthias Chang (23/7/14)“
http://futurefastforward.com/component/content/article/9820.html
I guess one could call it the blowback of lying and getting caught.
“So, yet again, they were back-stabbed by imbecile politicians like Obama and Power who just are not used to consulting with their own specialist before flapping their lips and nevermind if they make an entire intelligence community look like cretins.”
Well, seeing as the ZPC/NWO carried out the war criminal shooting down of MH17, the American [cough] intelligence critters couldn’t very well show any real intelligence material since it would be self incriminating. ;)
I think the ZPC/NWO falseflag corps simply did not have time to prepare thoroughly since they probably had only a few days to get this falseflag op running. A lot about this atrocity looks like it was a hastily put together operation with a strong reliance on propaganda media to bluff their way over the gaping holes in their manufactured evidence.
I don’t feel sorry for any of the freaks, they all deserve to hang.
As the initial ZPC propaganda campaign is now running its course, they are backpedaling (back peddling) to the first fallback position. IE: the Novorussians accidentally shot down the airliner with their “magic Buk”. See:
Ukraine: New Coup-Government Offense in Donetsk
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/07/ukraine.html
“Hiding behind the false outrage* over the likely accidental destruction of flight MH17 the Ukrainian coup-government launched a severe attack on the city of Donetsk.”
Note the bolded portion. What sayan Bernie is doing there with that is preparing the way for the next ZPC propaganda scenario – Novorussians accidentally shot down MH17. Incidentally, thinking ahead, he didn’t specifically name Novorossia, so left open the possibility for ZPC propaganda fallback position 3. 3 is to be used when blaming the Novorussians loses all credibility and they can no longer get away blaming others. 3 is the banderivtsy accidentally shot down the airliner. With a Buk or by one of their aircraft. What they will never do is admit shooting down MH17 was deliberate and that the bander-log did much of the crime, but the masterminds were American, Israeli and EU scum.
вот так
If this type of information (“intercepts, satellite photos and social media postings” with „fuzziness of some details“) is the kind by which it is decided that their drones should shoot one of their hellfire missiles, one has to wonder why they don’t kill even more civilians.
Russia is uniting us Croats and Serbs
=
I have found this in internet
–
Serb Spartans came to our aid against thousands of punitive army pro-American occupiers!!!
205 Serbian volunteers came to the aid of DPR
Serbian Chetnik commander Bratislav Zivkovic said that in the evening came a large unit of Serbian volunteers.
“Half an hour ago from Serbia arrived 205 volunteers, all of them will join the division of ” Jovan Shevich” which before their arrival counted 45 people. Thus division of Chetnic Slavic group “Jovan Shevich” became the largest by number of fighters, raising the number from 45 to 250.
We don’t have losses in our unit yet, more and more volunteers from the Slavic countries are arriving, about which I am very happy, because thanks to that Serbs and Croats will unite again, we – the Serbs as no-one understand the importance and significance of Slavic brotherhood, moreover we have chance to fight side by side with the Russians. Well, how else would we do (laughs), we can’t be without Russians!”.
https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/nov…52332192384425
I am a Croat and these people are for me good people and heroes
Ja sam Hrvat i cestitke Srbima na junastvu, vi se borite za plemenitu stvar, neka vas Bog blagosovi to vam zeli od sva srca jedan Hrvat i anti-natovac.
Democracy Ukrainian stylee.
These are the people the West supports and rely upon for evidence.
Of the many Rada brawls I have watched, it always seems to be that guy with the pony tail that is at the middle of things.
I believe this is new evidence (I have not heard about it before):
MH17 Lost Speed Shortly Before Vanishing From Radars – Russian Military
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140721/191081146/MH17-Lost-Speed-Shortly-Before-Vanishing-From-Radars–Russian.html
“The plane began to steadily lose speed at 17:20 [14:20 GMT] and disappeared from radar screens at 17:23 [14:23 GMT],” said Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, the head of the General Staff’s Main Operational Directorate.
“The plane followed the established air corridor until Donetsk and then veered off its course to the north,” the official said.
He said the plane, which at some point was 14 kilometers away from the course, attempted to return to the air corridor but crashed before completing the maneuver. Everyone on board – or a total of 298 people – were killed as a result.
“The reason for flying off the course – whether the crew made a navigational error or followed Ukrainian air traffic control commands – can be learned only from flight recorders, known as ‘black boxes,’ and from recorded communications of the air traffic control,” he added.”
And now those black boxes are going to Israel’s public schoolboi colony. Any evidence on them that doesn’t fit the ZPC/NWO plan will be quietly obliterated.
вот так
Russia Calls for Investigation of Foreign Mercenaries Participation in Ukraine Hostilities
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140721/191084501/Russia-Calls-for-Investigation-of-Foreign-Mercenaries.html
““We demand the authorities of the above-mentioned countries to conduct a thorough investigation into these facts and condemn the participation of mercenaries in the hostilities in eastern Ukraine,” the ministry said in a statement.
The ministry said this while commenting on an article in Italy’s Il Giornale newspaper which was published over the weekend. The publication reported that mercenaries from ex-Soviet Baltic states, as well as Sweden, Finland and France fought in the Azov Battalion, a paramilitary group supporting the Kiev government troops and financed by Ukrainian oligarch and governor Ihor Kolomoiskyi.
“If the information in this article is true, than it is yet another confirmation of involvement of foreign fighters in the armed internal conflict in Ukraine,” the statement reads.
Last month, Russia issued arrest warrants for Kolomoyskyi, as well as Ukraine’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, on charges of organizing murders and abductions, using banned means and methods of warfare, and preventing legal journalistic activities.
Moscow also believes the Azov Battalion played a key role in the violent attack on the Russian embassy in Kiev in mid-June, causing tensions between Moscow and Kiev to boil over.”
вот так
Will mean nothing unless Russia presses the point against the aggressors like they should do and make the whole world see the truth!
It means nothing if western populations don’t hold their ZOG occupiers to account. They have to be removed from office and prosecuted for their crimes. Nothing else will do..
MH17; the gift that keeps on giving [provided you’re a Kiev Fascist]: Dutch anger over MH17 crash aftermath could swing EU sanctions.
Cui bobo?
Cui bobo indeed.
Saker, the manner of the back pedalling is less important than the fact of it.
Of course there is better Intel than social sites and fake videos but by relying upon these in public less face is lost than later saying ‘we lied’.
Let’s see what happens over the current news cycle. I was right about the timing. If we see an ongoing shift in the manner in which the narrative is being framed, as I think we will, then we can probably infer that ‘the fix is in’ that the US and RF have been in discussion and that a compromise has been reached.
Given that it is not normal for any part of security council meetings to be public I am assuming that this was a signal to several stakeholders, including the Russian public but also the US decision makers and influencers. The words Putin used were well chosen and translated and, as we can see, are capable of two quite different interpretations depending upon one’s chosen mental, frame. Thus, for US public consumption, there’s the ‘Putin climbs down’ meme and for Russian public consumption there’s the patriotic, independent, rule of law meme.
What I am looking out for is whether there are inklings of position change in respect of sanctions from the US but also the European Union given their expected announcement on Thursday.
My expectations of war have receded but for the rebellion… Well, maybe there will be another team on the field in a short while, but perhaps these guys are gonna be called off the field.
Long term, my guess, if the fix is in here is that the flight recorder info will be inconclusive, that we will continue with the meme of a G to A attack but that ‘we will never be able to know exactly what happened due to, the fog of war, but we know that it wasn’t a Russian missile or Russians firing it, their hands are clean.’ The RF and BRICS will continue and there will be more provocations and upsets.
The Russian MOD release REAL radar data and satellite photos………
State Dept. spokesdummy Marie Harf
shows her twitter post of a cat wearing a St. George’s ribbon saying
“can I haz Buk missile?”
Utterly pathetic.
From half-Russian Canadian
Some days ago I pointed out details about one of the ‘smoking gun’ videos showing a Buk launcher with 3 missiles on it being transported by low-loader. The junta apologists claim this shows the launcher heading towards Russia. However, none of them give the location of where it was taken.A blog linking to the earliest version gave an address from where the video was taken (mentioned in post but I don’t ave time to check). The vehicle was travelling further into Ukraine away from the crash site. This address / view match needs to be confirmed. If it is correct, it will refute the claims made by the USKrainians. Is Graham Phillips still in Ukraine?
There are mercenaries from a Polish PMC acting as personal close-protection for the Ukrainian military head (seen in Slavyansk) and possibly a different outfit with Poroshenko. I am away at the moment, but I will do a note on Friday showing evidence.
10 more questions Russian military pose to Ukraine, US over MH17 crash
http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-questions/
“1. Why did the MH17 plane leave the international corridor?
2. Was MH17 leaving the route a navigation mistake or was the crew following instructions by Ukrainian air traffic controllers in Dnepropetrovsk?
3. Why was a large group of air defense systems deployed to the militia-held area if the self-defense forces have no planes?
4. Why did Kiev deploy BUK missile systems on the edge of militia-controlled zones directly before the tragedy?
5. On the day of the crash Kiev intensified Kupol-M1 9S18 radar activity, key BUK system components. Why?
6. What was a military plane doing on the route intended for civilian flights?
7. Why was the military jet flying at so close to a passenger plane?
8. Where did the launcher – from the video circulated by Western media and showing a Buk system being moved allegedly from Ukraine to Russia – come from? As the video was made on the territory controlled by Kiev, where was the launcher being transported?
9. Where is it right now? Why are some of the missiles missing on the launcher? When was the last time a missile was launched from it?
10. Why haven’t US officials revealed the evidence supporting claims that the MH17 was shot down by a missile launched by the militia?”
See the link for the info accompanying the questions.
вот так
More blowback (in German):
http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=ad301f4c
http://www.broeckers.com/2014/07/21/amerika-spielt-monopoly-russland-spielt-schach/
http://hinter-der-fichte.blogspot.de/2014/07/zdf-kleber-es-gibt-keinen-genozid.html
https://www.freitag.de/autoren/lutz-herden/1983-1988-2014
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/42/42337/1.html
Austria (ORF):
http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=ad30fa66
http://apasfftp1.apa.at/oe1/news/00022F5E.MP3
Switzerland
http://alles-schallundrauch.blogspot.de/2014/07/das-lugengebilde-gegen-russland-bricht.html
http://alles-schallundrauch.blogspot.de/2014/07/was-die-gerichtsmediziner-vor-ort-sagen.html
BBC
The authorities have been investigating suggestions that some foreign exchange traders have, for years, colluded to artificially fix foreign exchange rates.
It comes just a couple of years after the sensational revelations about banks rigging the vital Libor interest rate.
And the Bank of England has been accused of knowing about it, but doing nothing – something it denies.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26526905
As we can see
In this case nobody involves British PM or British Government or The Queen.
And they are correct.
However, if something like that happens [or whatever happens ] in Russia,
British media and the Russian quislings drag through mud Putin’s name.
That is a big problem for Russia.
They don’t do it to any other country.
In Croatia we have a lot of dirty lining however
British media are writing correctly and don’t throw all dirty lining in front of the president.
Flight DH17; the gift that keeps on giving [provided you’re a Kiev Fascist]; Rebels say Ukrainian forces trying to break way into Donetsk city.
Cui bono?
What’s also funny about the AP piece is that its headline was changed at least twice. The final version as it is now is:
US: Russia ‘created the conditions’ for shoot-down
before that, it was for a short time:
US: No evidence of direct Russian link to plane
and the original headline was:
US: No link to Russian gov’t in plane downing
Was amazing to watch how all the carriers of the AP story changed the headlines accordingly. You can still see the redirections, for example look at this URL of the Boston Herald and see on which URL you’ll end up.
Ministry of Truth corrected that all-too-direct editor. ;o)
This is the most laughable US State Daily Briefing I have seen. The information was out-of-date and plain false. The crash site was secure and agreement had been reached to hand over the “Black Box” to Malaysian Airlines. Teh US State kept saying we have no confirmation of such.. even though the bodies were being placed in a refrigerated train.
Those on helping with the recovery of bodies were in fact Ukrainian Police and Emergency personal. The very people that would be called on to do the job had there not been a conflict in Ukraine.
Instead the US took this is an opportunity to spin their false narrative even going as far as claiming that “They [The US State] do not do propaganda…
http://youtu.be/yGNn5ZB0wEo
As this case goes on and Ukie/US/EU arguments crumble, there is one more thing (among many others) Putin administration should do: after MH17 investigation facts will become irrefutable, hire some top lawyers and sue each and every newspaper that was involved in this despicable propaganda campaign. Demand the following things:
1) In case of newspapers: public apologies on first pages;
2) In case of TV stations: public apologies aired in prime time several times;
3) To pay considerable amount of money (eg. $5M-$10M) to special fund that will be used to provide help to novorussian refugees and include information about amount being paid and purpose of this money in apologies from point 1 and 2 (and make sure it is clearly visible)
Even if only some of these cases will be won, it would be significant blow to western media as it would severely undermine their reputation among their viewership.
“The officials made clear they were relying in part on social media postings and videos made public in recent days by the Ukrainian government, even though they have not been able to authenticate all of it.”
So US government is preparing to throw banderites under the bus should this fiasco backfire badly enough to cause excessive damage to Obama administration. Russians should now press Obama by speeding up this investigation and provide more and more hard facts. In the end, when MH17 fiasco will be clear enough and true nature of Kiev regime will be visible, Putin should prepare a statement that he admires Ronald Reagan for jailing his own staff involved in Iran-Contra scandal and he expects Obama to do the same with Kiev/MH17 perpetrators among his own staff (Nuland and her pack of rabid dogs + Brzezinski and his bunch of ghouls). In proper circumstances this would give Obama some political capital to actually do some cleansing among his staff.
The tapes with the radio communications between MH17 and Ukraine ATC have been confiscated by Ukraine secrete services soon after the crash. The same recordings should be in one of the Black Boxes (the voice recorder). You need both to “manipulate”. Now the black boxes ere in GB….so expect something!
However, they were in the hands of Novorossya for some days, and, with some “help”, its content could have been dowloaded. Moreover, radio communications can be intercepted, and the Russian border was very colse…
Finally, why not to give a look at the recordings of the 17 July flights in the same area and time, SIA351 and AIC114, or ask to their cockpit crews?
Posted on Ever wonder where we would all be today if Bill and Steve had never met, never pleayd with computers? What would have happened if Bill had never stolen all of Steve’s great ideas and marketed them better? We’d all be using IBM’s with Unix OS’s is where we’d be lol Regardless we all still only have until The farthest time that can be represented this way is 03:14:07 UTC on Tuesday, 19 January 2038. At that moment time as we know it will end
Infowars has the video:
“In a testy exchange between AP reporter Matt Lee and U.S. State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf, Lee virtually corners Harf into admitting that the “evidence” presented by the U.S. to blame Russian-backed rebels for the shoot down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 amounts to nothing more than YouTube videos and social media posts.”
Matt Lee. How did he get in there? Demanding verifiable evidence, no less. And he works for a major news organisation. The nerve of it! I hope he doesn’t get the Helen Thomas treatment.
An exchange worth seeing between Matt Lee from AP and Marie Harf from US State Dept:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/07/22/state_depts_harf_evidence_blaming_pro-russian_separatists_for_mh17_based_on_social_media.html
And something else seen on infowars:
http://www.infowars.com/u-s-prepares-to-blame-mh17-shoot-down-on-ukrainian-army-defector/
Apparently those billion of $$ spent on ‘intelligence agencies’ are worth every penny; ff-ing FB & SN? You gotta be ff-ing kidding me.
CDN:
If the missile was fired from UAF positions then it should have engaged in a “chase mode” and exploded at or near the rear of the plane. The damage pattern should be significantly different in this case with much damage to the rear portion of the fuselage to the tail assembly and to the trailing edges of the wings. The cockpit area should not show any evidence of missile damage.
Not true.
The alleged NAF BUK position was in Torez (the still photo of the BUK on the low-boy trailer was “shot” there) or Snizhne (the video of the BUK travelling alone down the street T-05-22 was “made” there) – possibly these are outright fabrications..
The confirmed UAF BUK position was in Zaroschenske, just 5 miles southwest of Torez, with a TELAR and two TEL’s actively linked to the main UAF BUK radar site at Styla..
If downed by an SA-11 the missile was shot while the plane was over Yenakieve at 17:19 and struck at 17:20. The shot apparently disabled the planes engines as the plane lost forward thrust over 60-90 seconds and dropped to a 200 km/h glide which was maintained for about another 90+ seconds untilt he crash.
If you look at the confirmed UAF position and alleged NAF position and the apparent position of the plane, you can see the missile tracks would be close to the same, as both lie southeast of the strike point.
BOT TAK:
I believe this is new evidence (I have not heard about it before):
Compare to the Twitter feed of Carlos the ATC from Borispol and the related Eturbonews story on 7/17, which it corroborates.
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/
“Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.”
I am not so certain that the US ordered this or knew it was going to happen.
Their goal is to draw Ukraine into NATO and put missile bases on its soil to counter the Russian nuclear strike capabilities. They do not want to get into a direct shooting match with Russia, no matter how loudly the neocons squeal.
The Kiev oligarchs on the ground are losing the war in the east. Their soldiers aren’t combat effective, are demoralised and have terrible, unmaintained soviet era equipment. They are also conscripts fighting a volunteer army, and we should all know how that goes every time.
The oligarchs have been screaming for NATO intervention since this all began, getting louder the more their army broke down. They have been continuously ignored and rebuffed every time, and told to win the war themselves.
By killing 300 western innocents, they hope to cause an outrage that would instantly see NATO soldiers inside Ukraine fighting the Russians, the exact scenario neither Russia nor NATO want. I’ve already read a few claims that certain parties were very upset that didn’t happen.
Avakov gave the order. His men were directly involved.
He was under instruction from Kolomoiski.
If I can work it out, then everyone in the intelligence agencies is already well aware.
In fact, the Duma is already looking to investigate the connections to Kolomoiski…
http://lifenews.ru/news/137146
The US has provided new evidence:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fU3O3GdmJZY/U87mvLGQaMI/AAAAAAAAYMQ/2kU_5eSh1LA/s400/MH17CollinPowell.jpg
Dear The Saker,
It is so pathetic.
I think they have started the accident story so when the truth comes out (and its not the separatists) – they can say it was an accident……just a thought…..laying the groundwork….where has the – whoever did this will have the full force of the law on them gone?
Still no facts to back up their statements. Relying on social media not intelligence – buffoons!
Just the most evil bucnch.
Rgds,
Veritas
p.s. Maybe some of these intelligence officers should break ranks and get the facts out – if they want to save what little face they have left…..
Wil this be the new twist by the US in this story ?
U.S. Prepares to Blame MH17 Shoot Down on Ukrainian Army “Defector”
In an attempt to explain away the existence of evidence which shows Ukrainian troops firing the missile that brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, Washington may be preparing to fix the intelligence by pinning the blame on a “defector” in order to absolve Kiev.
More to be read : http://www.prisonplanet.com/u-s-prepares-to-blame-mh17-shoot-down-on-ukrainian-army-defector.html
Forget fiat money … this is fiat intelligence.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/USevidenceMH17.jpg
Evidently as part of Kiev’s “sanctions” against Russia, all citizens with a Russian passport, or who have supported the separatists, will have their property confiscated (also rumored they’ll have to wear a bracelet with a Russian flag on it ?!?)
It’s like they’re reading straight out of the Hitler playbook.
And all of those who have screamed “Never Again!!” for their whole lives are supporting it, along with a fresh young hipster NWO Maidan crowd.
Evil just never gets old, does it?
2 Ukrainian military fighter jets shot down.
Is this 1 of those ‘Bring it on’ moments?
I’m still trying to make sense of the latest map of the area at the time of the shoot down that the Russian Military have posted http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-questions/
They say there were 2 other civilian airliners close by. If I understand the map correctly, the Paris to Taipei 17.24 (0368) flight appears to take a sudden very sharp turn south.
Any ideas?
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.gr/2014/07/ukraine-caught-in-third-major-lie-magic.html
I have strong evidence from Ukrainian citizen Anatoly Shary that Kiev is caught in a third major lie regarding Buk deployment.
It takes a while to go over the evidence, condensed below, all having to do with the number 312 painted on a missile launcher.
On March 8, Censor.Net, a Ukrainian Nationalist cite, says “Ukraine Defends Donetsk From Russian Incursion: ‘Buk’ Air Defense Rocket Systems Are Taking Up Positions. PHOTO + VIDEO”
The sub-headline reads: “A resident of Gorlovka, driving to work in Soledar, came across an entire convoy of military equipment. …My coworkers and I counted 11 missile launchers …”
SBU Headline July 19, 2014
A translated SBU headline reads “Russia is trying to hide the evidence of his involvement in a terrorist attack in the skies over Ukraine”
SBU is the “Security Service of Ukraine”. The gist of the article is the SBU claims to show a Buk missile launcher headed back to Russia. It bears the same number…
Infowars’ spouse and his own brood can get instant Apartheid State citizenship…
Are you sure you want to root for that bull-horn wacko?
Kerry didn’t stop there either. He went on to claim that Moscow had sent “a convoy several weeks ago of about 150 vehicles with armored personnel carriers, multiple rocket launchers, tanks, artillery, all of which crossed over from Russia into the eastern part of Ukraine and was turned over to the separatists.”
Needless to say, none of the major media or respective Intel agencies (who closely follow activities on the border) have uttered a word about Kerry’s phantom convoy. Without satellite imagery or some other proof, we must assume that Kerry’s claim is about as reliable as his bogus 4-page “White Paper” that pinned the use of sarin gas on the Syrian government, a charge that was designed to escalate US involvement in the Syrian war and — as journalist Robert Parry says, “spur President Obama into a quick decision to bomb Syrian government targets.”
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Putin-Knows-What-Happened-by-Mike-Whitney-Media_Mh17-Airline-Crash_Obama_Putin-140722-11.html
Thank you, Croat brother!
Serbs and Croats must unite again.
Pozdrav iz Srbije!
The Wend.
There’s a kind of consistency to the ‘intelligence’ that the US is able to provide to support their silly claims. Not just this aircraft incident but going back over months.
They rely upon YouTube stuff and silly blog posts.
Yesterday I attributed this to a tactic that enables the US to walk back their fictitious claims on the basis of ‘well we didn’t know the video was a fake’
But I wonder.
Is there just a possibility that the emperor wears no clothes? That US satellite surveillance is, in fact, no better than Google Earth?
Like other posters, I tend to the belief that this was a Ukrainian operation pulled together at the last minute but I absolutely do not think that the US would have been entirely unaware.
But is it possible that they can not put up a convincing counter story to the Russians because the best surveillance info available is actually Russian?
ever since the sarin gas incidence why has russia not gone on offensive and said that americans and english have been directly sponsoring the terrorists in syria and why has russia not supplied syria and iran with s 400 missiles despite the anglos giving all help tot eh terrorists in syria and ISIS ?
russia is stupid -that does nto mean the enemy of russia has got to be stupid.
there is a reason that russia becomes victima gain and again because iut acts as weakling.
anglos have been diverting attention from real battle on the ground and talking of resistance tampering with evidence wheil the russians stupid and thier ally have allowed the balck box to be given tot he msot vile enemy of russia and truly the only real enemy of russia-england to have all the black box to tampoer with!
how stupid russian nation can be?
“I’m still trying to make sense of the latest map of the area at the time of the shoot down that the Russian Military have posted
They say there were 2 other civilian airliners close by. If I understand the map correctly, the Paris to Taipei 17.24 (0368) flight appears to take a sudden very sharp turn south.
Any ideas?”
Shalom, Schlomo. Why not ask Jerusalem Post or any other Zionazi rag?
“back pedalling”? Pathetic. What you actually see is that they PERFECTLY generate talking points day after day to keep fools focused on the false flag.
Yet over and over, visitors to this blog (and others) say the most powerful media factors are the pictures and videos of ordinary people in East Ukraine that have been ruthlessly murdered by the neo-Nazis from Kiev. Yet this blog uses such images as little as possible- just as the masters of the zionist mainstream media machine demand.
False flags are never designed to fool the well-informed. So ‘proving’ a false flag is a false flag is an utterly futile exercise. Just ask the victims of previously well exposed false flags.
No, one very important intention of a false flag is to create a massive area of swampy ground that the so-called ‘thinkers’ of the other side willingly trap themselves in, for as long a time as possible.
Obama ordered Kiev to shoot down the airliner for a very clear battlefield advantage- end of. Now it should be about the response, but instead of responding, Putin is crawling on his knees, begging the world to notice what a reasonable ‘gentleman’ he is.
The leaders of the West are in Hysterics. They can’t prevent (directly) Russia liberating Novorussia, and with all their vile evil ongoing genocidal invasions across the planet, they can’t preach (convincing) morality to the sheeple if Putin does go in.
So it’s a mind game. Using psychology to persuade the Russians to hold back from doing the right thing. To manipulate the supporters of Novorussian rebels to dribble on and on and on about the false flag.
The current score is:
The West 100, Russia 0
Yes, Russia can still make the killer, game-winning play, and enter Novorussia, but who here now thinks there is any chance of that happening? And all of you that talk about the false flag, as if the Americans didn’t order the missile fired, might as well be fighting on the side of Kiev.
Not that readers here need another analysis of MH17 and what’s behind it, but there’s a good article over at Club Orlov that might give us talking points with others when discussing this plane crash:
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/07/fact-free-zone.html#more
This site (linked before here in various posts – Ukraine war digest with some good material) has an article on ‘Carlos’ the Kiev ATC guy. Makes the point that the tweets he made about the crash were BEFORE the news wires first reported the story – so how could he know about the tragedy?
Now the fact that the militia has downed 2 more military craft BBC is juxtaposing that information with the quote “near the crash site” so people will associate them with shooting down planes.
Anon @13:55 – If Russia wants to operate normally in the world it cannot publicly pick a fight with the US – might as well declare war. The lies about Syria we exposed by social media and some press investigation and the US intelligence community knew they were false and wasn’t supporting a bombing. Russia could work behind the scenes to get the US to agree to support the change in policy. If Putin publicly picks a fight with the US do you think that can happen?
Forgot to paste the site link about ‘Carlos’:
http://iouco.tumblr.com/tagged/english
News: Rebels shot down 2 Su24
The Los Angeles Times article on Tuesday’s briefing seemed to address the same information this way: “U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 [anti-aircraft missile] was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems.”
What primitive game they play. We do not need to know nationalities, uniforms, or identities. Show us place on map from where rocket was fired, then calculate distance to MH17 in time of hit. If over 15km then Ukies shot the plane due they have set batteries of BUK to be able reach plane from rebels controled area. And because launcher itself has radar operational range 15km.
Во Львове в магазин запустили мышей, чтобы они погрызли товары русского производства
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueYoieefrn4&feature=youtu.be
Not that readers here need another analysis of MH17 and what’s behind it, but there’s a good article over at Club Orlov that might give us talking points with others when discussing this plane crash:
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/07/fact-free-zone.html#more
This all does not matter. What matters is the war. The Counter-Offensive has produced real results overnight. Two planes down. Towns retaken. The Lugansk area is more stable. And there are more nazis and Ukies dead or running toward momma.
The war is all that matters. The war must be won.
Why are people wasting time over a mountain of lies told by psychopathic liars whose toolbox is full of genocidal weapons?
You can never win the argument. Jesus Christ could not win the argument. But more importantly, you don’t have to win the argument.
The entire world knows it is all a lie. Does anyone in China or Brazil or India not know that the Hegemon is behind all this shit?
Back to the war. The units themselves are using video as they group and move, and you can see the morale of the fighters is sky high. Small companies of men are driving away tank and armored columns. The militia can move openly in vast sprawls of rolling terrain. This with planes dominating the sky above.
Imagine more men, and I think in reality, there are no more than 2500-3000 actually fighting the war. But they have technique and are brazen and that gives them great advantage. They own the ground. It takes fully dozens of tanks and dozens of armored vehicles to move them, and of course, they want to keep moving to force those armored columns into traps and ambushes.
The militia have only to receive another large supply of men so they can double their force, and then they can compel more surrender and obtain the vehicles and weapons systems they need.
Right now, they know that the Ukies only have a 3-4 day effort in them each Ukie offensive, due to supply, resolve and leadership. And most of these sustained battles by the Ukies are directed at unfortified villages and cities.
Once you get off the hunt for Truth about a Lie, redirect yourself to the War, my friends.
The war is a Hegemonic project to destroy Russia and Putin.
Keep your focus on the war. The next big thing will be the next round of equipment escalation. Will NATO countries and US especially try to alter the facts on the ground before the Ukies are decimated in Donbass? Or will Putin respond to his own statements yesterday that Russia will not allow NATO any advantage vis a vis Russian security?
We all have an understanding that Russia must have a cleansed Ukraine, a neutralized Ukraine for true security. No guerrilla war capacity, no adverse government next door, no will to fight or capacity to fight can be left in the Ukrainian society.
I don’t see how any Russian planner, tactician or strategist can get that condition without disemboweling Kiev and scattering into pieces the entity presently known as Ukraine. Crippling is not enough. In ten or fifteen years, the US and NATO will reconstitute it. Ukraine has to be entombed as a state.
Ukraine is Lennie Small, as John Steinbeck wrote in Of Mice and Men. And Russia must be George Milton. Only a bullet to the back of the head will suffice to end the threat of the monster that Ukraine has become.
purpose of false flag was to give relief to ukrainians int he southern cazuldron which they have got now. jsut like false flag of gaddafi killing civilains was used to kill gaddafi with russian blessing.
instead to figthing ont he ground and changing the fact russia is boggeds down to jsutify her existgence to her english anglo enemis.
Anonymous said…
Thank you, Croat brother!
Serbs and Croats must unite again.
Pozdrav iz Srbije!
The Wend.
23 July, 2014 13:10
====================
Dragi prijatelju, bio sam Hrvat, Ustasha i sva ta sranja, kasnije sam vidio da smo svi mi Hrvati popusili od Amerike i Britanije, kao posljedica toga sam se odrekao hrvatstva i danas se identificiran s Rusijom.
Slavenstvo je proslost i nemoguce to moramo priznati i prihvatiti za to su se postarali Amerika i Britanija.
Rjesenje je da se svi mi Slaveni okupimo oko Rusije.
Ako pane Rusija i mi cemo svi biti izbrisani ako Rusija prosperira bit ce i za nas svijuh srece.
Srpski dobrovoljci u Novorosiji su za mene junaci i mogu sluziti kao inspiracija svim Hrvatima i ostalim Slavenima.
Okupimo se oko Rusije !!!
CDN says:
Andrew
Thanks for the location info. I have a great deal of difficulty locating place names on the available maps as I cannot interpret the Cyrillic.
The alleged NAF BUK position was in Torez (the still photo of the BUK on the low-boy trailer was “shot” there) or Snizhne (the video of the BUK travelling alone down the street T-05-22 was “made” there) – possibly these are outright fabrications..
WRT the BUK on the lowboy with a car dealership sign in the left rear background, I believe this has been identified as being a position within UAF controlled territory. People with local knowledge have identified both the street and and the car dealership in the sign. I believe the location was near Dzerzinky (sp).
Other persons with local knowledge allege that the image of the BUK travelling independently down a dual lane roadway in Snizhene (sp) have claimed that this BUK was travelling away from Snizhene rather than toward the alleged firing location.
What is needed is a large scale map showing towns and alleged BUK positions together with course data on MH17. There seems to be some factual data available but no single map reference system which combines the available evidence.
What is strange is MH17 and its departure from its flight corridor immediately prior to the shoot down. This deviation from course should have been noted by ATC and resulted in communications with MH17.
If a UAF SU-24 was at the same FL but on a reciprocal course and was spotted by MH17 this provides a possible explanation for the course deviation.
Since any collision avoidance manoeuvre would have resulted in communications on an open frequency there is a big piece of the puzzle which is not being made public and which is not dependent on analysis of the CVR.
Cheers!
Kyiv has the motive, the means and the opportunity.
In addition to releasing the Traffic Controller tapes Kyiv must also subject their BUK missile launches to a full independent International forensic audit to determine if any Missiles have been launched or gone missing.
I am afraid that this is a False Flag Operation that is designed to give the US “the right to invade Ukraine on the pretense of securing the crash site. Even though the Crash site is secure as both the OSCE and Malaysia Airlines have stated. Those attending to the crash site are professional police and emergency service staff. They extract same people that would attend a plane crash had it happened outside of a civil war conflict.
If you think that the notion of Ukraine forces shooting down the plane is beyond belief think again.
Kyiv Feb 21, Maidan Sniper/Provocateur killed over 100 people. Including Police and Protestors. Suspect Right Sector Ultra Nationalist
Odessa May 2. organized Pogrom and attack on pro-Russian protest site at the Union House People wearing red arm bands threw Molotov cocktails and fired shots into the building. It was later discovered that those indie had been murdered strangled and shot Including a pregnant women strangled with an electric power card and then set alight.
Mariupol May 8. Armed Right Sector Militia sanctions by Kyiv’s interim Government stormed the local police station killing all inside for what is said to be a reprisal attack for the police not carrying out the order of the Kyiv junta
If they can do that then the idea of shooting down an international airliner to “burn bridges” between Russia and Ukraine in order to secure international support and provide support and pretense for US invasion is not beyond belief.
They are certainly only backpedaling under duress and having no other choice, I would really, really know what have been the Russians “bargaining chip” for this.
Tone it down or else…
Breaking from RT News:
Dutch Safety Board Takes Formal Charge of MH17 Crash Investigation
@pessimist,
There was an interview with “Carlos” in the Spanish RT.
Video:
http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/127516-amenazar-controlador-espanol-ucrania-crisis
I don’t know if there is one with English subtitles.
Flight MH17 False Flag Conspiracy FULLY EXPOSED! Complete Compilation Of ALL The Evidence! -BUSTED!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFlGLqiDogA
burack 10:24
I suspect that is the video I referred to in my earlier post. It was filmed on a low loader near a T junction on the M04 at the western side of Krasnoarmi’isk. The vehicle was heading north west away from Donbass. It is a pain that Graham Philips is out of action. He could have verified the location. If anyone has contacts with the Sleboda (sp ?) the Russia specialist interviewed on the BBC, tell him so he can spread the word.
Given the history of US accusations against the Russians, it looks to me as though the Russians are setting a trap for the US/UK. Remember that when the U2/Gary Powers incident happened, Khruschev did not what the Soviets knew and the fact that they had both the U2 pilot and the plane. As Eisenhower sought to dispell the fact that the US had been illegally flying over Soviet territory taking photos, K. would put out another bit of information, leading Eisenhower into another lie. By the time Powers was brought before the cameras, Eisenhower had told one lie after another. Plain for all the world to see.
Obama miscalculated. He knew, as someone on this blog pointed out a day or so ago, what the truth was. But perhaps he? they? whomever-did not realize that the Russians also knew through their own technology what had actually happened.
Now they are making Obama squirm just as Khruschev made Eisenhower squirm
The Pug:
It seems that Putin has made a decision to act; he has recalled the Duma and held an important meeting, and he may give the Ukies an ultimatum and send Russian peacekeepers into Ukraine:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-23/putin-recalls-state-duma-vacation-planning-something-ukraine-situation
The holes in the fuselage of MH17 seem to be caused by pin type projectiles, suggesting an air to air missile was used.
During the build up to the Iraq fiasco the middle management intelligence agents were questioning the validity of the intel but they were threatened and bullied into silence. Since the example of Assange and Snowden and others, they have more courageous and this time there is the media ( internet) to leak it far and wide. No one has any respect for those who lie us into another war or to keep comfortable silence when they are in a position to speak even at the risk of their lives and careers. Which side are you on? unfortunately, comfortable neutrality is being made impossible. Re: the kidnap of RT reporter Gorden Phillips–he was held roughly enough during his coverage of the Mariupol massacre and I saw him on rt.com. What a courageous truth teller and he had that kind of disabused outrage that many have who have lived so comfortably and sheltered in the wealthy so called 1st world countries. I’m glad RT is going to bat for him big time! They need to scream “Press Brutality” to the high heavens. If this is political theater–then let it be so. Hopefully he will emerge unscathed.
@ Carmel by the Sea
Regarding that interview with “Carlos”.
Near the end he is asked his opinion about the future of Ukraine. His reply starts at 2:42. This is what he says (remember this interview took place on May 8):
“People have too much hatred. From my perspective, it is impossible that the western and eastern parts of the country could live together again in peace. Besides that, there is a whole lost generations that has no jobs, no future and, at the moment, its entire occupation is the conflict. And they don’t want this conflict to end; they have nothing ese to do. And the hatred is so strong — at least in Kiev — so strong that I think it’s impossible for that country to live in peace and calm again.
Then the ask him if he regrets his tweets. He says not at all. He doesn’t think he has done anything wrong by expressing his opinions.
http://politikus.ru/events/25083-ssha-v-shoke.html could this be the reason?