We all know that the western corporate media lies, that western politicians lie, that a big segment of the population in the West has been zombified into terminal stupidity. But there is another West which is very rarely mentioned, whose voice is systematically ignored, which is categorically opposed to what is being done in its name by the ruling plutocracy and which refuses to shut up and obey. All of us who have lived in the West know this and, I believe, most people outside the West do realize that too. The truth is that the enemy of Russia today is also the enemy of the 99% of people in Europe and in the USA. Of course, the 1%ers try to divide us all into small groups and oppose us to each other, and when that does not work, they try to scare us. And still, some, many, see straight through this.
Today, thanks to a good German friend (thanks “FR”!!) who agreed to translate this letter especially for this blog now I have the translation into English of an “open letter to Putin” signed by large and diverse group of Germans who were touched by Putin’s words about Germany and its reunification and who decided to reply to him in an open letter. You can find the original of the letter here. What follows is the full translation into English:
[I have been informed that another translation is available here.]
——-
About the anti-Russian statements of our mass media and politicians
Open letter to Putin
By Volker Braeutigam
President Putin has turned in his speech to the reintegration of Crimea from March 18, 2014, directly to the German people. This appeal deserves positive resonance that corresponds to the real feelings of the Germans, so how they got these days in ad hoc surveys to the expression. The unilaterally anti-Russian statements of many our mass media and politicians as well as the escalating actions of Berlin do not represent the German population and her increasing distance to the bellicose policy of the EU and NATO. Therefore, here is now an open letter to president Putin which will be handed over on Thursday to the Russian embassy in Berlin:
–—–
Dear Mister President!
In your speech in front of the state Duma you asked he German people for some understanding. We are German citizens, who experienced the post-war period by the majority in the west half of Germany. When the cold war 1990 was ended and our country was reunited, a sigh of relief went through the world, because the always threatening danger of a nuclear military conflict seemed avoided, which would have pulled the entire globe in. Germany would have been extinguished.
The Soviet Union has played the decisive role for the liberation of Europe from Nazism under incomparable victims. Nevertheless, it was in 1990 ready to support the German reunification in 1991 to dissolve the Warsaw Pact and community to accept NATO membership total of Germany. This was not honored by the West.The former Ambassador of the United States in Moscow (1987-1991), Jack Matlock, a few days ago in the Washington Post confirmed that President Bush promised not to exploit the generosity of President Gorbachev.
The expansion of NATO up to the former Soviet republics, the establishment of military bases in former Warsaw signatories and the construction of an anti-ballistic missile defense screen in East Europe with concurrent withdrawal from the ABM treaty on the part of the USA are all striking breaches of promise.
These measures are understood by us only as a claim to power by the western leadership power which are directed against the state and economic consolidation pursued by you of your land after your assumption of office in 2000.
Moreover, Keir A. Lieber and Daryl G. Press stated beyond that 2006 in „Foreign Affairs “with her article „to The Rise OF U.S. Nuclear Primacy” convincingly that the anti-missile defense screen is to make a nuclear first strike possible for the nuclear neutralization of Russia.
This background in condensed form is the background before which we assess the events in the Ukraine since November 2013. Meanwhile, it is widely documented that the United States has exploited the legitimate protests of the Ukrainian people for their own purposes. The pattern is familiar from other countries: Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine 2004, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Venezuela …
The “interference” of the European Union and OSCE was swiftly taken care within twelve hours after the deal negotiated by the foreign ministers for a peaceful transition was overturned with the help of fascist forces.The website of the Open Ukraine Foundation of the incumbent Prime Minister shows who is behind the current coup government in Kiev.
Internal and international law questions about the secession of Crimea are differently answered. We want to evaluate them here not legally, but only from a political point of view.
Against the background of developments in Europe since 1990, the deployment of some 1,000 U.S. military bases around the world, the control of the Straits by the U.S. and the outgoing of the perpetrators of the Maidan threat to the Russian Black Sea fleet, we see the secession of the Crimea as a defensive measure with a simultaneous message: up to here and no further!The crucial difference with Kosovo’s independence declaration is that the latter was made possible by the illegal bombing by NATO, unfortunately with the participation of Germany , which created the conditions for independence.
Dear Mr. President, you have called for an economic community from Lisbon to Vladivostok for almost four years. It would be the economic basis for the “common European home”.The Ukraine could take up an ideal bridge function for the future cooperation between the Eurasian Union lead by you and the European Union, not least in cultural respect. We are persuaded that the massive influencing control of the USA has as its purpose prevent the Ukraine from becoming such a bridge.
The forces which have prevailed in the European Commission are supporting the policy of the United States against Russia. The speech of the Executive Secretary-General of the European external action service, Pierre Vimont, on March 14, this year is so unique (EurActiv: “EU shunned from US-Russia meeting on Ukraine”).Dear Mr. President, we trust that your historic speech in year 2001, will continue to form the basis for your actions against the EU and Germany in the German Bundestag. The latest polls show that the majority of Germans does not want any confrontation with the Russian Federation and are expressing understanding for Russian actions towards the Ukraine.
We do not underestimate the difficulties faced Federal Republic of Germany as a member of the EU and NATO concerning Russia, these are also known to you. However, at least we expect the Federal Government operate in the old Roman legal principle audiatur et altera pars (“hear the other side too”). This was omitted in connection with the neighborhood policy of the EU in the case of Ukraine.
Even during the Cold War Russia has not made use of the argument that 27 millions of its citizens died during WWII for political gain against Germany. This figure alone gives a special quality in the relations between our countries.
The people of Germany have a keen sense of to this: when “The Group of Soviet forces in Germany” in year 1994 takes leave of Germany with a performance of its music corps on the square before the Bundeskunsthalle in Bonn , there were moving scenes between the numerous spectators and musicians.In this context, when we see the news reporting and commentaries in the German media we can only say that we find them disgusting.
Dear Mr. President, with our modest means as a simple citizen, we will help to ensure that the intended division of Europe does not succeed, but the ideas of Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz be brought back to new life.
We are convinced: only if the states and peoples of the Eurasian double continent regulate their affairs peacefully with one another, respectfully, cooperatively, on the basis of the right and without outside interference, this will radiate also into the remaining world. We see you in this sense as our ally. For Your current, and hopefully also the next office period we wish you strength, power of endurance, intelligence and skillfulness.
With utmost respect,
Signed by 300+ people (for full list see here)
——-
One could say that 300 people is not that much for a country of 80 million people, but that would be mistaken. These are not “just” 300 people. These are 300 people willing to commit social and political seppuku and who dare to openly swim against what is arguable the worst hate and propaganda campaign since the end of WWII (I for sure do not recall such anti-Soviet hysteria during the Cold War). Furthermore, these people are showing the rest of the terminally passive Europeans that it is possible to speak up and not only refuse to participate in this hate campaign, but even to openly challenge it. In fact, these Germans go even further: they are calling Putin (the “New Hitler” and WorstAndMostEvilEnemyOfMankindEver) an ‘ally’ while rejecting their own national leadership. That, my friends, takes a lot of guts. It also proves that there is no such thing as historical inevitability. If the country which attacked Russia not once, but twice in the 20th century can produce this can of awareness then no situation is hopeless. I sure hope that this letter will be translated into Russia and circulated by the Russian media not just to show “support for Russia”, but to show that the people of Europe are not all the enemies of the Russian people.
I don’t know if that will actually happen, but I am sure there such letters are also possible outside Germany. I am getting a lot of emails from readers in Europe who are disgusted and outraged by what is being done, supposedly in their name. And the same goes for the USA and even central Europe.
I want to conclude this with a short except from the Book of Genesis:
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty’s sake. And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty’s sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake. And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place. (Genesis 18:17-33).
We all know how it ends: God sends two angels to remove Lot from the city and then He destroys Sodom and Gomorrah. Thus it is said that “just one man can save a city“.
I think that the honor and dignity of 80 million Germans can be saved by the 300+ who followed the words of Stéphane Hessel and were outraged and followed the words of Yehuda Bower and refused to be bystanders.
Should any of them ever read these words – I respectfully salute them!
The Saker
Only 300…
You have to start somewhere!
300 Spartans under king Leonidas started a process that eventually stopped the advance of Persia.
Maybe these 300 Germans have lit a similar spark.
And from an unexpected political sector – Jean-Marie Le Pen – has likewise expressed her open support to Putin. Not sure though, whether this will inspire or scare the majority of the French.
And from an unexpected political sector – Jean-Marie Le Pen – has likewise expressed her open support to Putin. Not sure though, whether this will inspire or scare the majority of the French.
Jean-Marie is her father, her name is Marine Le Pen and her supporters have no problem on understanding Putin’s position as she aspires to take a comparable role for France. A truly independent France in a multi-polar world.
Your qualification unexpected political sector shows the problem. Le Front National has been painted in all these years as a right wing extremist party, but in reality it is not, not by a long shot.
Davidius
“If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.”
You will not find “fifty righteous” in the upper echelons of US or the EU. Yesterday I heard the Swedish foreign minister say something like this about the situation in Ukraine. “As a democratic nation they have the right to whatever they want”. He’s not only looks like a Nazi, he is one.
Dear Saker,
first of all, thank you for this blog, i’m here for 2 month now.
I’m from germany and i knew about this letter, read it a few days before, and I can tell you in my opinion 30 million people in germany knows that they’re lied to by the media. the big news portals are closing comment sections very often very fast because they are scared of the public opinion – one of the big tv news channels N24 has told on their website “we don’t publish any pro-russian or anti-american comments”.
a big newspaper, the FAZ i think made an online survey 2 weeks ago about russia and ukraine and it was shut down 2 or 3 hours after the result was not like they expected.
i follow the discussion forums in the media and you can see there is an information war going on between the people who knows things and the ones who want to believe things.
in german media it’s hard to get trustworthy informations. i can read russian and even understand a few words, but most people don’t – english the same. there are a few alternative blogs, but most germans have been scared by the media, that everything alternative is “conspiracy theory” and that’s the biggest advantage to the believers. an interesting fact is that there are more supporters for russian politics in eastern germany – well,you know about their history..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HnPTzMbNMGA
almost 75000 people watched this video and it gave me some kind of hope.
the biggest problem in my opinion in europe is, all countries are isolated in their public opinion.
all the media pretent to be pro european – why they don’t publish their lies in spanish, french, italian? because they couldn’t stand the public opinion from these countries.
I could say say a lot more about this topic.
sorry for my english, but i think it’s understandable what i tried to say.
Again, Thank you for your work
R.
Dear Saker,
first of all, thank you for this blog, i’m here for 2 month now.
I’m from germany and i knew about this letter, read it a few days before, and I can tell you in my opinion 30 million people in germany knows that they’re lied to by the media. the big news portals are closing comment sections very often very fast because they are scared of the public opinion – one of the big tv news channels N24 has told on their website “we don’t publish any pro-russian or anti-american comments”.
a big newspaper, the FAZ i think made an online survey 2 weeks ago about russia and ukraine and it was shut down 2 or 3 hours after the result was not like they expected.
i follow the discussion forums in the media and you can see there is an information war going on between the people who knows things and the ones who want to believe things.
in german media it’s hard to get trustworthy informations. i can read russian and even understand a few words, but most people don’t – english the same. there are a few alternative blogs, but most germans have been scared by the media, that everything alternative is “conspiracy theory” and that’s the biggest advantage to the believers. an interesting fact is that there are more supporters for russian politics in eastern germany – well,you know about their history..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HnPTzMbNMGA
almost 75000 people watched this video and it gave me some kind of hope.
the biggest problem in my opinion in europe is, all countries are isolated in their public opinion.
all the media pretent to be pro european – why they don’t publish their lies in spanish, french, italian? because they couldn’t stand the public opinion from these countries.
I could say say a lot more about this topic.
sorry for my english, but i think it’s understandable what i tried to say.
Again, Thank you for your work
R.
Same as the Basic Finns party in Finland who are vying soon for 2nd spot in polls. There is a lot of demonisation against those parties who hold their nation ahead of the grand EU project.
I always say, trade with neighbors from a position of strength and respect. As in individual countries should look after themselves and come to the trading table only when they have their own houses in order and people well catered for.
As for the EU, some ideas are great but like Ukraine, it needs to be working under a loose federation of national states. Also there is the problem of the EURO and supply of it being in Private Banking hands. This has to stop and the currency as with any has to be in the Public Banking Hands. Money like any core social service, needs to be non for profit and seen as a service benefit to society for society. Not this current For Profit Private commodity for the debt enslavement of society.
I do hope that this is also the case with the money supply in Russia, that it is in Public Hands and controlled in a manner that is beneficial for Russians, not for a Private Banking Cartel or we are just swapping one set of Banking Oligarchs for another whilst the chains of Debt Servitude stay firmly around Societies Neck.
Italy’s Beppe Grillo has a lot of wise words with regards to the situation with the EURO. In the USA there is the Public Banking Institute which is trying at state levels to take back control of Central Banks for the good of the people.
Justin.
Dear Saker,
I like a lot the blog and I find your work here wonderful.
However, let me do a quick comment about this specific post. Usually you discuss religion or cite religious contents in specific posts reserved to these themes. I like it, since we can keep the subjects well bound in its place, what benefits the discussion a lot.
Today You did cite Genesis in a political context, trying to conclude something. Sorry, but I could not get the message at all… I am not religious person.
Saker can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the message is along the lines of, “just one grain of rice can change the balance in a scale.”
@gallier2
>Le Front National has been painted in all these years as a right wing extremist party, but in reality it is not, not by a long shot.
nearly all political parties in europe labelled “populist right” or right wing promote economic policies that were once advocated by social democratic parties. see f. ex. the example of hungary, where a “socialist” opposition is accually hardcore neoliberal.
there has been a discussion in some german forums if there is now the possibility of a “quer-front” – with “right wing” and “left wing” parties (like f. ex. die linke in germany, of syriza in greece) taking a similar position on this issue. they are often also quite close on economic policies.
the austrian FPÖ (probably the strongest party in austria by now) also pretty much took a “pro russian” stance on this. some political figures from the conservative-catholic spectrum too.
the bavarian CSU seems to be quite critical of the official german policy as well (but not openly)- one of their members voted f. ex. against the resolution in the PACE- thats quite unusual.
My respect to the 300+ people as well from Finland. This will grow (as per the possibilities afforded by the increasing state/corporate repression), there is certainly a lot of potential.
As for a previous comment, unfortunately the True Finns party seems to be controlled opposition as it nowadays (after much dragging of feet) openly supports the euro and EU. There are principled people who are leaving the party (the local 300+) for something real.
I liked the Sodom and Gomorrah analogy (which I did not know). For those less religiously inclined, the current situation in my mind is heavily reminiscent of the end of Numenor (told in Akallabeth) in Tolkien’s book Silmarillion.
The Saker, thank you again for your ongoing and quality information and analysis.
That being said, as a non religuous person, i do not browse the web for ‘Lord praising’ articles. I try to avoid this, to me, alien world, which i do not belong to and don’t _want_ to belong to.
Really, it creates instant nausea when i am reading your articles and suddenly i’m getting a ‘And the LORD said ..’ shoved down my throat.
Now, i don’t mean to change that because of my little feelings, but maybe think how this seemingly uncorrelated (and to non believers it is incorellated because they won’t even try to get a hidden message by reading it) bible talk annoys them, and make them leave your blog (maybe). I won’t though, because i know your factual stuff is very good.
You belittle no-believers the way you praise your lord constantly. If you intend to or not does not even matter here.
-yt
-yt, just a simple question, and it’s not directed only at you so I hope you will not take offense but I really am curious.
Why exactly do you take offense at someone stating their personal views? I’m not offended or upset by yours — I just figure they’re yours and you’re as entitled to them as I am to mine. I dislike it thoroughly when someone tries to *convert* me, to anything, or impose their views on me, because that’s true disrespect. But Saker’s just stating what he believes, to which he’s entitled both a) in general and b) because it’s his blog. I don’t feel belittled at all: why do you? (And again, I don’t mean just you; it seems to be something a lot of people who’ve come to the conclusion that faith is irrelevant or harmful, seem to do whenever a person to whom it matters very much makes any reference to it at all.
To -yt [13 April, 2014 10:11]
The quality over quantity argument of the Saker isn’t just religious but social, philosophical and political too. It’s meant as a reflection, not a dogma and therefore a (strong) enhancement of the dialog about the act of the 300+
The Front National, in France, has a very specific role to play: adopting the ideas that the powers-that-be find untasteful.
It is a way of putting some stink many relevant analysis. The FN is a racist party and everything it touches gets that stink.
The Front National, in France, has a very specific role to play: adopting the ideas that the powers-that-be find untasteful.
It is a way of putting some stink many relevant analysis. The FN is a racist party and everything it touches gets that stink.
Quant au Front National en France, sa popularité — contrairement à celle de Russie Unie et Poutine — est due premièrement à l’incompetence et l’indifference totale de la Haute Bourgeoisie mondialiste et son appendage gauchiste à l’égard des intérêts des classes moyennes et laborieuses. Or, les adhérents de Marine Le Pen sont pour la plupart beaucoup trop vaniteux en se croyant indispensables / irremplaçables pour le système capitaliste — ordre social qu’ils ne cessent jamais d’exalter. À cet égard, le FN fait partie des mouvements de masse fascistes occidentaux, dont la vision centrale est de répartir plus égalitairement le butin des impérialistes au bénéfice de leurs “Rassenfreunde”.
FI and reference, I’ve also put an English translation of the letter on Wikipooks here
@Nora:
No offense taken from your comment.
First, by commenting on The Saker’s article i show my sincere respect for him. He’s only one of two blog authors i involve myself commenting. That’s because i value him and what he does so much, for what and how he writes shows real passion: He really does care about what’s going on and does his best to make the world a little bit better.
I hope that with my comment i can give a feedback (example) from a different world view. I can’t even really describe why i take offense with certain writings/talks, it’s a feeling. Describing a feeling can be futile. Maybe it’s that (sometimes?) religious people seem to think that only because of their religion they live by the ‘right’ values, morality and ethics. Meaning: non religious people _can’t_ (and thus do not) live by the ‘right’ ones. Usually, if someone thinks that way and i learn about it, i remove myself from that person.
I do not take offense at someone for stating personal views. And the same as you, i dislike it when someone would try to convert me.
Now, intended or not (i’m sure not intended in the case of The Saker), whenever there is a lot of reference to religion in otherwise unrelated topics, i can’t help but _feel_ being subjected by something i don’t want to: A preaching of a religion, which i don’t want. As i said, i normally would avoid reading/hearing it. One goal was to give a heads up that this style of _mixing_ topics with religion might alienate new readers who do not yet know about the blog and the good info (and good comments) which can be found here.
Partly unrelated: To me it’s one of the greatest mysteries, how with all of our knowledge and intelligence, there can be so many different religions and sub-religions where, still, each member of these religions seems to be sure that all the others are (at least partly) _wrong_. He certainly ‘believes’ so because he ‘believes’ his religion is right. Why do only non religious people seem to be scratching their heads over this obvious discrepancy?
“.. it seems to be something a lot of people who’ve come to the conclusion that faith is irrelevant or harmful, seem to do whenever a person to whom it matters very much makes any reference to it at all.”
Maybe it’s that non religious people do not accept that faith and religion are needed to explain how the world works. Yes, for me personally faith is irrelevant. Not being religious does not make me an unethical person and i am happy the way i am. Also, religions have really proven and continue to do so, to be potentially very harmful tools. You can see how it’s sole existence drives wedges between people.
@anonymous “..social, philosophical and political ..” I’m all open for these :)
-yt
Dear Saker,
You’ll find a RUSSIAN TRANSLATION of the German letter here:
http://www.russkoepole.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1702:grazhdanin-germanii-napisal-otkrytoe-pismo-v-putinu&catid=133&Itemid=202&lang=ru
Немецкий подполковник написал открытое письмо В.Путину
Cheerio,
Kassandra
Lol. I have occasionally complained about the religious content here myself, but in this particular post it didn’t bother me. It seemed to be serving at least in part to provide the back story to the expression: “just one man can save a city”. I don’t feel preached to in this case. I suppose my own (now rejected) Christian background plays out in different ways in different contexts. In the case of the Sodom and Gomorrah story, there is something unforgettable about the progressive pleading with God to spare the people of Sodom. I cannot read Genesis without being struck by the way it is packed with insights of various sorts, accumulated over time as folklore (in my view), and having literary value.
I do appreciate the analysis on this blog, and since religion, whatever else one might think of it, is at least a social reality, there’s something to be said for hearing from a Russian Orthodox insider who is able to really flesh out that cultural context (granted, from his own particular viewpoint).
I am not a conservative and do not wish to insist on keeping this shared language intact, but I can’t deny that something is lost with the loss of that common language. Even now, as someone who can be pretty hostile toward Christianity and religion in general, if, say, I am giving directions to someone from a foreign country, it will probably cross my mind: “For you were strangers in the land of Egypt.”
yt and Nora,
I am also a non-believer/non-religious person; however I don’t feel belittled reading Saker’s references to religion in his blog.
Belittle: to put down or make another person feel less important
I don’t think he is doing that at all, even indirectly.
However I did feel belittled and discriminated against, growing up in a Canadian community that was 95% German Catholics. (It could have been 95% any religion and being the minority probably would have had the same result.)
yt, but I do understand and relate to your general distaste for “And the Lord said…”, when you are happily reading along an article anywhere and it turns in this direction. That’s what I would call it, distaste, or an annoyance like you said, because the religious content isn’t anything we believe in so it becomes an immediate turn off.
However myself I am not offended by someone else’s religious views, because they are not about me, why would I take offense? I agree with Nora in that what does offend me is when someone tries to convert, preach or push their views on me. That is different than someone just expressing themselves.
Saker is sharing his ideas, opinions, beliefs, experiences and analysis with us. And I value it. Like any blog, it is a take it or leave it for the reader. The writer does not need to appease anyone and actually shouldn’t.
What is ironic for me is that I don’t mind the religious content in this blog, because usually it is used in the context of the political discussion and adds to the human and philosophical analysis. When talking about geopolitics, you have to discuss history, and you cannot discuss history without acknowledging the major influence religion has had.
Also I thoroughly enjoyed this posting: http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/03/sheikh-imran-n-hosein-islam-russia-and.html. I watched the entire 1.5 hours. Does that seem crazy for an atheist? I think it’s not, when you enjoy learning about other viewpoints.
T.
@ -yt, 15:58
I’m glad I didn’t offend you. While reflecting on what you’ve said, though, something just hit me, and so I’ve got yet another question. And that is, the people I know who are non-believers gave the process a lot of thought and examination (which I will grant you is something a lot of believers have not done — especially the more obnoxious ones who simply swallowed things whole and are trying to make everyone else do likewise). But now you’re talking about your deep feelings and I’m wondering if it’s really *religion* or *faith* per se that upsets you, or the smug, close-minded certainty of those who wear it on their sleeves. Or maybe even just remembering truly obnoxious people spewing forth and expecting anyone of any faith at all to be just like them. Does that make sense?
As for the rest of what you said, I totally agree. I’ve known too many deeply ethical and caring non-believers, and too many truly nasty, if not outright evil, supposedly deeply religious people, to think a claim of belief in the God of one’s choice guarantees much of anything at all — what matters, always, is what we do. How we get there — well, there sure is a lot of human diversity, isn’t there! But I do think — maybe quite naively — that most moral people have an awful lot of the same morals, regardless of how they got there.
@Feng Chsang:
When i addressed @anonymous in my first comment, i meant to address you, sorry.
Also, i neglected the real message by The Saker “Thus it is said that “just one man can save a city”
-> just as you mentioned it as well @anonymous:
“It seemed to be serving at least in part to provide the back story to the expression: “just one man can save a city””,
because i was put off already by that long Book of Genesis quote. I guess i could be a bit more relaxed and don’t see preaching behind every citation of a religious script.
“.. there’s something to be said for hearing from a Russian Orthodox insider who is able to really flesh out that cultural context ..”
True as well.
@T.
“Belittle: to put down or make another person feel less important
I don’t think he is doing that at all, even indirectly.”
There are two sides of that coin, one who acts and one who feels belittled. The second part one can not control directly, it’s not in the power of the one talking/acting.
That’s the same with inulting someone. Even though it might be close to impossible to insult me, the same words could easily insult another person.
I’ve seen the whole interview as well. It was very interesting and the Sheikh is a really intelligent man. Also, he’s got most of the facts right (as far as i can tell). But it is also a very good example of how his religion, his dogmas and his beliefs influence his judgement. Even to the point where he semmingly really believes that he can foretell the future based on ‘what’s written’. Now, put besides him another very intelligent and knowledgeable person of a different faith with his own (of course different) book of truth. Let’s see how this one foretells the future based on his script. Now, what would we learn i wonder.
-yt
@Nora:
“.. and I’m wondering if it’s really *religion* or *faith* per se that upsets you, or ..”
Religion and faith per se do not upset me, no way. Everyone is free to believe what he/she wants. Although i wager it’d be good for everyone to question (as in the opposite of believing) many things taken as facts in non-religious topics (politics, medicine, physics, astronomy and so on). Doing so, many people would be surprised how much of the facts they take as truth are just lies and myths.
“.. or the smug, close-minded certainty of those who wear it on their sleeves. Or maybe even just remembering truly obnoxious people spewing forth and expecting anyone of any faith at all to be just like them. Does that make sense?”
This. And yes, it makes sense. In fact, reflecting on myself, i guess i am a bit over-sensitive ;)
Everything else you’ve said in your comment, i agree fully.
-yt
Remember that german reunification was opposed by one and one country only_englad which wa also the country which syarted cold war and is running anothet vold wat agianst russia. Englad also spies on german industry to do sabotage.
Ruszia must nuke englad which had statred both world wars to make rus figjt germans and deztroy both
so please nuke englad to save russia and germany both
While I understand all the trouble England had caused, I’m sorry to say that, no, we do not fight fire with fire.
Quoth Nietzsche: “He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee.”