In the context of my previous SITREP, you can see that I am totally opposed to a lot of German policies in general and to the German policies regarding the refugees and the migration crisis in particular.
When I say that the German people have an obligation to help, I mean that the German people as a community of individuals have an obligation to help those in need, because all the individuals that constitute the German people have this obligation as a person. Just because they are a person, not because they are German.
Our European neighbours all have exactly the same obligation, as has everybody else. That does not mean that we have to take in refugees from all over the world no matter how many might come. But it means that we need to help within our means. And just giving shelter is not enough.
These people are not victims of natural disasters, but victims of political decisions. For over a decade now “the West” lead by the USA have unleashed a campaign of terror on the Middle Eastern world.
Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria have been torn to pieces. People robbed of their security, livelihoods and futures flee and naturally wealthy EU nations are a magnet for them.
I think that we should first and foremost help them win back their homes and stop further destruction. And while Germany has not played much of an active combat role in these wars, Germany has done very little to stop its allies. And actually done a lot to assist the war efforts.
Rammstein is one of the most important US military installations outside the USA. On German soil.
(1) Acts tending to and undertaken with intent to disturb the peaceful relations between nations, especially to prepare for a war of aggression, shall be unconstitutional. They shall be made a criminal offence.
The military campaign in Iraq in 2003 without any doubt qualifies as a war of aggression and has deeply disturbed “the peaceful relations between nations”. So by the standards of German constitutional law even taking part in the preparations for such a campaign is a criminal offence.
One might think that allowing and subsidizing a huge military base in Germany that is used for such a war of aggression could be a problem for those responsible. But apparently it is not.
This is not even discussed.
If the Germans took their laws more seriously and demanded respect for them, there might be less chaos and suffering in the Middle East and fewer refugees to deal with.
My point is that the Germans have to work towards solving the problem at it’s root, in so far as that it concerns them, and in so far as they have influence. Most of the migrants are not on the move because they want to plunder EU social security systems and assault white women.They are running from the consequences of crimes our supposed “friends” committed. And we did not even try to stop them.
We have, in a way, become the wiedergänger of the character that we have been conditioned to loathe. The spineless object that is too afraid to stand up to the intimidating Nazi bully, too afraid even to acknowledge the existence of the Nazi bully.
Instead of just taking in the victims of the Empire we need to stand up to the Empire and stop being a part of it. The first step would be removing foreign military bases from our soil and leaving NATO. Followed by war crime tribunals. That would be my Alternative for Germany.
But that is not on the ballot.
This however was:
Results for state parliament elections in Baden-Württemberg, Rheinland-Pfalz and Sachsen-Anhalt:
Rheinland-Pfalz and Sachsen-Anhalt:
The good news is that the governing coalition of SPD and CDU (on a federal level) has lost across the board. Even better news is that SPD lost to AfD in two of the three elections.
The SPD still thinks of itself as the other big “Volkspartei”, but under Merkel they have been reduced to utter insignificance.
I can in no way endorse the AfD for its (largely non-existent) political program in general, but much like Trump in the USA the AfD looks like the only possible protest vote.
People vote for the AfD because they despise the other parties and the political establishment in general, not because they endorse the AfD’s political program.
The AfD is the new “dirty child“ not even the former “dirty child” (LINKE) wants to play with.
But in Sachsen-Anhalt we already have “Greek” results in Germany. AfD and LINKE on the “far right and left” of the political spectrum have 40,5% of the total vote. CDU and SPD have 40,4%.
But the “non-voters” (“Nichtwähler”) still won all the elections:
BW:
RP:
SA:
ECB / monetary policy:
The ECB’s negative interest policies makes holding physical cash more and more appealing for commercial banks. [source] [source]
The key quote: “Well, the Bavarian Banking Association has had enough of this financial dictatorship.
Their new recommendation is for all member banks to ditch the ECB and instead start keeping their excess reserves in physical cash, stored in their own bank vaults.
This is officially an all-out revolution of the financial system where banks are now actively rebelling against the central bank.”
Handelsblatt took a pretty clear stance: [source] [source] [source]
One of the top reinsurers worldwide, German based MunichRe, turns to Cash and Gold: [source] [source] [source]
But please do not worry. Draghi has everything under control. Germans are generally very happy to know that a Goldman Sachs lackey from Italy is in charge of their savings… What could possibly go wrong?
Human Rights / Saudi Arabia:
For some obscure reason Dutch lawmakers have banned weapon sales to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia: [source]
This is outrageous.
How dare the Dutch lecture the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA), the current head of the UN human rights council, about human rights?
Just because in the KSA peoples’ extremities and or heads are chopped off, if their opinion happens to conflict with the authority’s dictate, suddenly there are human rights concerns?
Come on. The Dutch need to relax.
The Germans happily sell weapons to the KSA: [source]
So it must be OK.
The problem in Europe these days is that the EU finds itself in a situation in which it’s rules do not work anymore.
Not that they ever worked to begin with, but it felt good to pretend these rules would be applied, should they ever need to be applied. That they would ever have to be factually applied was never part of the deal it seems.
Rather than protect the European borders from being crossed by people that are not allowed to cross the Schengen borders, the EU would keep on strangling Greece to death.
Apparently the EU can agree to pledge about 3 billion EUR as a bribe for Turkey to stop sending even more migrants over the Turkey/Greece border, but cannot agree to give Greece about 3 billion EUR to keep the very same migrants from crossing this border, as is Greece’s duty according to their contractual obligations within the Schengen framework.
Turkey shot down a Russian aircraft, that posed no serious threat to Turkey, for an alleged violation of Turkish airspace for a matter of only seconds. The kind of violation of its airspace by Turkish planes that Greece has had to deal with for a long time, without downing planes and killing pilots.
Turkey sends migrants and overwhelms Greece? – Turkey gets 3 billion EUR from Greece’s “friends” to protect borders.
Greece is in deep trouble and overwhelmed by migrants sent from Archenemy Turkey? – Turkey gets 3 billion EUR from Greece’s “friends” to protect borders.
Meanwhile Turkey is busy hushing up the Armenian genocide, and furthering the age old Kurdish genocide attempts with the “blackmail-proceeds” of sending victims of the genocide to Europe.
The West’s stance on Turkey and Russia is pure hypocrisy. Erdogan reveals himself more and more to be the irresponsible, crony dictator that Putin is often portrayed as in Western mainstream media. He attacks the press, the legislature, the judiciary, is involved in illegal oil and weapons trade and wages war against an oppressed ethnical minority. He meddles in his neighbours affairs, shoots planes out of the skies and uses defenceless victims of his crimes and their suffering as bargaining chips for obvious blackmail tactics in “negotiations”.
And the EU lets him get away with it.
What kind of idiot could promise anything to Turkey in return for the promise of Turkey to take back illegal migrants on the basis that the EU accepts the same number of other refugees from Turkey?
This way Turkey still has the same incentive to allow the flow of migrants. Every refugee that makes it to Greece means they can get rid of one mouth to feed and increase pressure on the EU. Plus Turkey gets promised money, ostensibly as compensation for something that costs them absolutely nothing.
That does not make any sense. And for Syrian refugees it means that they have to buy each others’ tickets. How unnecessarily cruel.
From a more general point of view, I think that borders can only be defended in an ethically acceptable manner from one side. It is acceptable to deny someone entry to your domain but unethical to confine them within it.
The European Union is very unpopular in Europe.
I wonder why?
Just the Federal Administrative Court ruled that the monthly fee to be paid by every household and firm for the public broadcasting institutions is not to be considered as a illegal tax, but may be legally imposed regardless of someone has a TV set or radio at all. The ruling might be challenged at the Constitutional Court, but it may well rule that it is needed for the function of the public media to maintain their independence an a basis for a functioning democracy.
However, since 1995 at latest, the public broadcasting institutions in Germany became an outlet for NATO propaganda, in the last years increasingly pushing for war and demonizing Russia and Syria, impersonated by Putin and Assad.
During the illegal Yugoslavian war – the start of the new war world order with the R2P for justifying armed aggression and war crimes (such as the bombing of civil infrastructure, poisoning entire regions for centuries by depleted uranium ammunition, and bombing embassies and media broadcasting buildings), cynically legitimized as preventing an Auschwitz happening again – during this war of aggression fulfilling the Nuremberg Trial verdict as crime against peace became the normality for the German political elite. However, not for the German population, they still clearly object military inventions.
Thus, the public broadcasting institutions rapidly degenerated to propaganda outlets promoting war. The former excellent, balanced and informative Deutschlandfunk (the only public broadcasting radio on the federal level) which had a very high standard for its journalistic professionalism, was turned into a pure propaganda outlet occasionally worse than a local private radio in its journalistic quality. During the brief war on South Ossetia, this process was completed. For the reporting on the war against Syria and against the Russian speaking population in the Donbass, this was implemented full throttle ahead. Numerous complaints had been filed for gross lies in the reporting, and against the uniform line in most German mass media parroting NATO propaganda and undermining peace in Europe – however, ignored.
German population today enjoys the questionable privilege to pay a obligatory and quite substantial monthly fee for being target of massive propaganda for foreign interests.
Fortunately, until now it does not really work – people are not dumb enough.
“but it may well rule that it is needed for the function of the public media to maintain their independence an a basis for a functioning democracy.”
You do not think it strange that the EU Competition Commissioner has no objection to State subsidised Media ? Post Office, Railways are broken up but not Politician-controlled Media….funny that.
Maybe it is really a State Secular “Church” called ARD or ZDF which replaces the old Catholic and Evangelische Kirche as a State Transmission Belt to The Masses ?
No, the public media are not subsidized by the state. They raise their own funds via an obligatory monthly fee which is like a flat rate tax, but collected and administered completely outside of the state administration. Core reason for the Federal Administratoive Court to rule that this fee is no illegal tax (the Laender level on which the public broadcasting institutions are organized are not entitled to raise such tax) was that there is a service directly proveded in return to the user.
So, formally the public broadcasting institutions in Germany are really independent – even the amount of the fee is fixed by an independent institution outside of the state executive.
The influence is realized mainly on three levels: 1) The composition of the public broadcasting committees on the Laender level which direct the institutions’ policies – here the established policital parties ursupated a majority enabling them to exert control to a large degree. 2) The transatlantic old boys networks and fifth column organisations which ensure that during formation of journalists, they become socialized in the Anglosaxon world view, providing the basis for executing a propaganda agenda without cognitive dissonance. Being in line in this respect is a precondition for a career in a large part of the media, both public and private ones.
3) The control of the large news agencies feeding the media with bits provided by spin think tanks and NATO outlets, and the precarious situation of freelance journalists who often use these stories provided for free and have to avoid unorthodox reporting questioning the mainstream spin in order to get their next contract.
These structures succeeded to void the initially good provisions for safeguarding an independent media completely and compromised journalisitic quality to a very large extent.
Kassandra
Quoting, “No, the public media are not subsidized by the state. They raise their own funds via an obligatory monthly fee which is like a flat rate tax, but collected and administered completely outside of the state administration.”
So this is not a tax enabled by government but a private tax collected independently of government?
Yeah. Right.
How can it be that this media outfit is able to collect an involuntary coercive expropriation from people without the state’s threats and coercions to back it up? And, if the state is the force that enables the expropriation, how can the activities of enablement and enforcement be anything other than subsidy? After all, it is not as if there is a separate media police force and separate media courts with special media jails for enforcing payment is there?
Siotu
Your comment was a lot more interesting than either Paul Greenwood’s that you replied to or Siotu’s rejoinder, which focus very strongly on the US-Libertarian hobbyhorse tree (OMG it’s a tax!) while ignoring the forest you provided.
Saker, I salute you! Great and to the point, don’t read this quality in the papers….
Mind you, in today’s Spiegel I was amazed to see a previously unthinkable amount of scorn against Merkel, ah, and according to epochtimes the closest Merkel refugee advisor is a Soros plant!
Marc
Please do not post this
When EU (first EC) was created by K. Adenauer and Ch.de Gaulle it was to unite and protect Europe from the outside influence. Nowadays EU is controlled by Washington in the interest of Wall Street and City of London against the interest and will of ordinary Europeans. What I want to say is that I believe that the idea to unite Europe was a good one. It was just hijacked by financial evil.
“the idea to unite Europe was a good one”
As a spiritual brotherhood and a conflict-solving platform, yes, as a top-down federalized union, no.
The AfD has a program but is not yet finished.Why ? largely because the party had and has a very small room of play.The party is under severe scrutiny since her birth,every step done by her political leaders are attacked without scruple,the gatherings of the party are perturbated in various ways,the left-wing youth organisations have been in numerous ocasions attacked them.They are being labelled as nazis or fremdenhasser (foreign-haters).The MSM media is constantly holding the pressure on them,including their leader,provoking them to obtain some points against what are they saying.In those circumstances it is very hard to go along with your new party program.But this is just the beginning and if there is more time,more and more people will open their eyes – god willing.
There is a history of protests against the Ramstein Base that predates its use for launching the drone war. It hink such protests go back to controversies on the deployment of missilles or whatever on German Boden.
In fact, I recall reading accounts of such protests and realizing for the first time within this context how little actual sovereignty Germany had. Perhaps at that time it was still even Westdeutschland. The German government does not seem to have the power, per its constitution, to declare the Americans and their bases persona non grata, and please leave.
Even though many Germans had long recognized that having these bases and weapons deployed on their territory made them the frontline for any hot war between teh USA and Russia, or others. I recall reading some paragraphs from I think the West German constitution or agreement with the Allied Powers or some such that basically gave the occupiers ongoing power to determine what is allowed to occur in Germany. So, it would appear the Germany does not have the legal right or power to demand that the Americans leave, nor that they cease and desist with using Germany territory for launching drone strikes. In fact, the US bases are probably legally constituted as American territory, like embassies etc., as little sovereign outposts within Germany where German law does not hold sway. Like the Vatican within the Italian state.
This SITREP does not seem to take into account these circumstances.
I am hazy on this and would love to get more solid info from experts.
Katherine
Katherine,
Look (e.g. in WIkipedia) for “Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA)” to learn more about the treaties between Germany and the US.
Not so much there on Germany, but here is some info (in English):
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Aussenpolitik/InternatRecht/Truppenstationierungsrecht_node.html
Various laws are cited there, and some of them probably set the boundaries of what the Germans can do about it if they don’t want the Americans on their territory (not much).
Katherine
Statesmen have often intoned “Treaties are meant to be broken”, sometimes before the ink was dry on the one they just signed. It is sheer stupidity for a people to adhere to Treaties that are clearly damaging them and may even drag them into a war that will, once again, destroy their nation. The fault, as usual, lies not wholly with the body of people but with the feckless leadership.
This goes back to the so called “Pershing crisis” ,the Pershing being a nuclear tipped rocket to be deployed on German soil as a threat to the Soviet Union. It was obvious to many Germans that this was a scheme by Reagan to create a regionalized nuclear war on German soil and solving the pestering “German Problem” once and for all. Protesters were sent to prisons by the hundreds – until a group of JUDGES declared that they would no longer hear those cases brought by the government or sentence anyone. The stationing of the Pershings and the land based cruise missiles were cancelled shortly thereafter. Two names in this context: Gerd Bastian and Petra Kelly.
Germany is controlled through 6 ways that I know of:
1. There are many US troops still on German territory.
2. At German reunification, US threatened to prevent it unless Germany signed a letter/treaty of submission agreeing that US controls its media till 2099.
This treaty has been confirmed by Major-General Gerd-Helmut Komossa, former head of German Military Intelligence in his book “Die Deutsche Karte” (The German Card). (Banned in Germany)
3. Germany is still under the UN’s “enemy state” clause, which limits its sovereignty.
http://www.rense.com/general69/germany.htm
4. In taking all important decisions Germany must “consult” w Supreme Allied Command (US/UK).
Russia rescinded this power at reunification; the others didn’t.
http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/11/germany-expels-u-s-spy-chief-opens-geopolitical-can-of-worms/
5. Germany has no peace treaty, so no constitution. The current govt not really the govt of the whole of Germany, etc, etc.
6. The German people have been kept in ignorance of this. Traffic violations are dismissed whenever the person presents a Third Reich drivers lic because the current govt not really the legal sequel.
Anyway w secrecy a perceived necessity on top of all the other problems German officials seem unable to resist submission. Altho some may share in US ambitions to dismember & loot Russia, share in NWO goals.
—-
still is under de-facto administration of the Supreme Headquarters Allied Command. Major decisions in Germany cannot be made without the approval of Washington and London, regardless how much Washington, London and Berlin attempt to sugarcoat the fact behind statements of freedom and democracy.
The German, state-owned TV Channel ARD reports that 49 percent of Germans, polled in a recent DeutschlandTrend poll, would like to see Germany as a bridge between the East and the West, maintaining a policy of equal distance to both the western alliance and Russia. Only 45 percent view Germany as a country that is a solidly anchored part of the West. Not surprisingly, there is a significant variance in opinions, depending on whether one asks people in the western or in the eastern Federal States.
Only 31 percent in the eastern Federal States, the former German Democratic Republic, perceive Germany as “solidly anchored in the western alliance” while 60 percent would like to see Germany assuming a “position in-between”, reports ARD, citing the DeutschlandTrend poll.
Even though the poll in March revealed that Germans’ are suspicious about Putin and Russia, the NATO decision to increase its military presence in the eastern NATO member states is rejected by the majority of Germans. Only 40 percent approve of NATO’s increased presence in NATO’s eastern air-space, while 53 percent disapprove. It is worth noting that these opinions have been strongly biased by a borderline hysteric anti-Russian propaganda in German and western media since December 2013.
Both the United States and the UK are doing their part to maintain the status quo, to the extend that analysts warn, that any development of close political, economic and energy-related ties between Europe and Russia, and particularly between Germany and Russia, that would challenge the dominance of the US – UK axis over European geopolitics, will be opposed by the USA and the UK. In fact, a high-ranking European NATO admiral confessed during the early 1980s, that the USA and UK, together, would engineer a crisis, if necessary, a war, to oppose that trend.
—-http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDcQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.veteranstoday.com%2F2011%2F06%2F05%2Fgermany-still-under-the-control-of-foreign-powers%2F&ei=wZGXU9zNMIyGyASEtoGADw&usg=AFQjCNFpfGgkZ0AdQP0B4i-nQnXSTSycMA
(i) Two days prior to the enactment of the German constitution on 23 May 1949, a Secret Treaty (Geheimer Staatsvertrag) was signed, which gave complete Allied control over electronic and print media, film, culture and education until the year 2099.
As a result thereof, there are still 100,000 occupation troops in Germany; after 66 years there still has been no peace treaty concluded between Germany and the Victorious Allied Powers; and all of Germany’s gold reserves are held in the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank of New York, in which the Rothschilds have a 57% shareholding.
This treaty has been confirmed by Major-General Gerd-Helmut Komossa, former head of German Military Intelligence in his book “Die Deutsche Karte” (The German Card).
(ii) There appear to be two constitutions. According to a resolution of the Constitutional Court (Verfassungsgericht) of 17 August 1956, “It is upheld that the German Reich has outlasted the collapse of 1945 and has never gone under or fallen, either through capitulation or through the exertion of foreign state authority in Germany by the Allies, or in the later course of time; it is still an entity with legal capacity, even though it is not fully operable as a government due to a lack of organization. The Federal Republic of Germany is NOT the successor of the German Reich”.
It needs to be noted that the Constitution of the Third Reich dates back to the North German Constitution of 1866. The principal reason why it still exists is because only the German High Command surrendered on 8-9 May 1945, and not the German Government.
Furthermore, the 1949 Constitution is termed the Basic Law, because it is a provisional constitution, pending unification of the lost territories. So far, only central Germany has been reunified – 3 October 1990. The eastern territories, as defined by the 1937 borders, still remain under Polish and Russian control.
(iii) Freedom of expression is guaranteed by Section 5 of the Basic Law (Grundgesetz), but it is clearly contradicted by Section 130 of the Criminal Code (Strafsgesetzbuch) under the heading ‘Agitation of the People’. Any alternative view of the Establishment’s version of history is punishable by up to 5 years in prison (12 years in the case of Horst Mahler), and thousands of innocent people have been jailed or fined.
Germar Rudolf – Thought Criminal ?
I will give two brief examples. Dr Wilhelm Staeglich from Hamburg was forced to resign as a judge and lost 20% of his pension for five years for publishing a book about World War II, “Der Auschwitz
Mythos”. In a letter to me dated 21 October 1990, he wrote:.”…In Germany the book has been banned forever.”
My second example concerns Germar Rudolf, who graduated in Chemistry at Bonn University and was a researcher at the Max Planck Institute. In 1992 he wrote a scientific report about the so-called concentration camps in the east, which was peer-reviewed by over 300 professors of Inorganic Chemistry. Not one of them could find a single mistake. He was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison for writing this Report.
Finally, I wish to quote a sentence from Professor Dr Ernst Nolte, who was a witness at the recent Kevin Kaether trial in Berlin: “Such questioning must be allowed, or else scientific truth in this area of
history is ruled out – this is simply not a possibility.”
The Result
Halfway through the third question, the moderator of the symposium requested a “termination”, in other words, he wished to stop the questioning. Professor Schneider only replied to this, the third question, saying flatly that freedom of speech is protected by the Constitution and that the Criminal Code is there to protect it from “hate” speech.
After the symposium ended for the public, I expanded on the rest of my question to him as well as mentioning that the famous German historian, Professor Helmut Diwald, had had his book, “Geschichte der Deutsche” pulped in the late 1970’s, after he had written (p.165) that whatever happened to the Jews who were evacuated to the east after 1940 is “still unexplained with regard to the central questions, in spite of all that has been written.” Professor Schneider seemed to agree that such questions needed to be treated more seriously.
Regarding the secret Treaty discussed in point (i) above, Schneider said that he was unable to say whether it was true or false. There has been much debate about its authenticity, but the fact is that the provisions contained in it have all been applied.
—http://www.rense.com/general69/germany.htm More understandable one
Title: GERMANY STILL IN JURIDICIAL LIMBO
—
—CHRISTOF LEHMANN:
Forget for a moment that NATO membership and EU membership has legal bearing on sovereignty questions which concern both the Netherlands, Germany et al.
Germany, Japan, Italy are still covered by the UN Charter’s Enemy State Clause, Germany still has no peace treaty, the 2+4 “instead of a peace treaty” is just that “instead of”. As long as we don’t have a peace treaty we can’t vote for a new constitution. The current “basic law” was largely dictated by the victors of WWII; Not to forget that the basic law has not even any territory that it covers, and there is a lot more. A lot. Among others, that German policy still can be dictated by the supreme headquarters, allied command. Russia (USSR) rescinded that right at the time of the German reunification, others did not. Thank you for the interest in the very complex subject. You probably understand that this is too complex to deal with it in “comments”. A reasonable starting point would be:
Germany Expels U.S. Spy Chief; Opens Geopolitical Can of Worms .. http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/11/germany-expels-u-s-spy-chief-opens-geopolitical-can-of-worms/
NB.: When you study the issue, you will not be able to avoid a lot of mis- disinformation, some Neo-Nazi material that plays into the hands of MI6, CIA etc.. A good starting point would be the German Philosopher and Military Historian Peter Feist. If you understand German, go eventually to Youtube, type “Peter Feist, Feindstaatenklausel”, that will get you started too.
—
Enemy State Clause. One of the most serious worms in the can is the fact that the UN Charter still designates Germany as an enemy state, thus giving any UN member state the right to wage preemptive war against Germany on the basis of a perceived threat.
It’s nonsense if someone claims, like the author, that the AfD does hardly have any program. Just look at the thick election programs produced its branches during the run-up to the recent state elections Baden-Württemberg, Rheinland-Pfalz and Sachsen-Anhalt. Dozens and dozens of pages containing detailed proposals of how to begin to rectify the mess created by parties of old over the course of several decades of (krypto-)socialist mismanagement. An election-independent program for the entire party is still in the works, be assured that it will be substantial and very well thought out.
The AfD is a party of accomplished professionals, many of them with high academic degrees or running ther own businesses. Don’t kid yourself by thinking that this party could not come up with a program – That’s just lame stream propaganda. It’s rather the other parties that sorely lack expertise on almost everything, especially the overt left. None other than vice-chancelor Siegmar Gabriel, chairman of the social democrats, is a striking example of that. He is an elementary school teacher by trade who was never given any permanent contract in his profession. He held a precarious position at a center offering all kinds of courses mainly for adults before he started to make his way into politics. Many more German politicians have similar backgrounds, which is one reason for the widely held contempt against them. This forum might be particulary interested to hear about von der Leyen, the current minister of defense hailing from the crypto-left Christian Democrats. She married into extremely wealthy nobility whereupon she proceeded to raising a large number of kids before she went into politics. Not that being a mother is a bad thing, but such a person is now in charge of the German armed forces? She holds a doctoral degree in some field but it was discovered that she had partially plagiarized her way to obtaining it.Other politicians lost their titles and positions due to such discoveries, but not von der Leyen.
It’s a disgrace, a total disgrace.
@ AfD:
“It’s nonsense if someone claims, like the author, that the AfD does hardly have any program [..]”
Pay no attention to it. They do the same with UKIP, who are constantly accused of being a one-issue party with nothing else to offer. All lies and fabrications, of course.
I’m confident the AfD posted all the issues they’re concerned about, just like UKIP posted its manifesto detailing where they stand on a collection of matters, but the MSM likes to pretend such manifesto doesn’t even exist.
Look! Even if it was true that they were a one-issue party, who the hell cares? Mass immigration is the number one issue in places like; Germany and UK anyways. So, what are we splitting hairs for?
Deport all illegals immediately, review all the dodgy asylum-seeking applications that were more or less stamped through and fast tracked in the past, close the borders indefinitely until further notice. That will directly solve, like, 80% of the problems affecting the working class [who are always the majority of people in any country].
If any party, even a single issue one, could solve north of 50% of the majority of their people’s problems with one simple approach… what the hell are we arguing for, again? Remind me…
Let me put it like this: if tomorrow there was a new party with a single issue too… “let’s get rid of the rich 1%” …I don’t know about you, but I’ll support them.
-TL2Q
“Deport all illegals immediately, review all the dodgy asylum-seeking applications that were more or less stamped through and fast tracked in the past, close the borders indefinitely until further notice. That will directly solve, like, 80% of the problems affecting the working class [who are always the majority of people in any country].”
This right here is why certain ideologies are sometimes referred to as “The socialism of fools”. Of course such measures will do no such thing. The working class has a lot of problems. Now, who is more likely to be causing most of them? A bunch of people with no money and no power, or that rich 1% you mention (0.01% more like) who control the economy and the media and the government? At most, immigrants are being used by the 1% to dump everyone’s wages by making them fight each other for jobs like crabs in a bucket. But they got plenty other tools–austerity, offshoring, “free trade”, compound interest, the list goes on. And while it’s probably not really in their interests for something like the AfD to actually stop all immigration, it’s a minor issue for them and realistically will likely never happen even if the AfD took power. In the mean time, it’s totally in their interests for something like the AfD to fight the immigrants–they love watching the working class fight each other instead of them.
Many people are under the impression that what the establishment fear most is these hard-right parties, or anti-immigrant populists like Trump. This is nonsense. They gain this impression because there is a lot of negative press coverage of such people. And because they don’t understand how the media and politics work. Let me try that sentence again, with one tweak: “They gain this impression because there is a lot of press coverage of such people.” Well that wouldn’t make any sense, would it? But that is what is happening. The hard right get lots of press coverage, lots of name recognition, and the old saying is true: “No publicity is bad publicity”. You can tell who the mainstream really fears and hates because they strenuously avoid talking about them. So for instance, Trump always got much more media coverage than Sanders even though their significance was roughly equal. I don’t know about other places, but the Canadian media mentions UKIP, even though it’s a smallish party that’s never formed a government, rather more often than they mention Jeremy Corbyn, the head of one of the two main parties. Oh, sure, they’re nasty about him when they feel they have little choice but to talk about him, but they try to simply not give him publicity. Anything that smacks even vaguely of halfway genuine leftism typically gets smeared only when it cannot be studiously ignored.
I notice that lately, Putin has achieved that status to some extent. They have to mention him, he’s a world leader with a major impact on world politics. But it seems like lately there’s been a mainstream realization that Putin isn’t staying in his box, they can’t contain him. Ever since his interventions in Syria started being undeniably successful and clearly both blocking US plans and making things better in Syria, instead of having fun demonizing him as the official enemy they’re trying to pretend he’s just not important, and talk about Putin and Syria has eased towards the back pages of the paper.
What we need in the West is a socialist democracy. These Democratic socialists think that according to principle capitalists should be given equal time on the podium. I say screw that. For the dictatorship of the proletariat. Everyone gets an equal kick in the butt if they don’t pull their weight! No free riders or coupon clippers allowed.
RR
I’m in.
” For the dictatorship of the proletariat. ”
No thanks. A country should be run by know-how (= some kind of meritocracy). Just like a hospital or an engineering office is. Unless we have a proletariat which is fully educated in geopolitics, monetary policy and such..
@ Purple Library Guy:
“This right here is why certain ideologies are sometimes referred to as “The socialism of fools”. Of course such measures will do no such thing. The working class has a lot of problems [etc…]”
Oh, FFS, shoosh!
Exhibit A:
How The Bubonic Plague Made Europe Great
“[..] In 1353, just after the Black Death and its population catastrophe, little would seem to have changed. Europe was still at war every few years and wages did not move despite the loss of labor but, over a few decades and with one-third of the population remaining gone, real wages for ordinary farm workers, who had been forced into serfdom previously, shot up by 50%. More bullion among a smaller population meant more wealth across all classes and because the same land was in use and it was now plentiful, it resulted in technological advances as well.”
“[..] Forced by population loss into greater knowledge and more flexibility, they maintained that attitude when the population curve started to go up again, so they became much richer than other cultures.
With more wealth came greater literacy. This makes sense. Flexibility and technological improvements do not happen in illiterate societies, they happen in societies where education brings the realization that some answers are better than others”
“The Black Death and resulting wealth across the population allowed for new opportunities for many workers who would have been just Serfs previously. It created what we now call a Middle Class [..]”
http://www.science20.com/science_20/how_bubonic_plague_made_europe_great-29378
–
Exhibit B:
.
Head of the IN [In, as in: staying in the EU] campaign says wages will go up if we [UK] leave the EU
“Appearing before the Treasury Select Committee, Rose was asked by the Labour MP Wes Streeting ‘‘if free movement were to end following Brexit, is it not reasonable to suppose that we could see increases in wages for low-skilled workers in the UK? To which Rose replied, ‘If you’re short of labour, the price of labour would go up. So Yes. But that’s not necessarily a good thing.’”
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/head-of-the-in-campaign-says-wages-will-go-up-if-we-leave-the-eu/
–
Brexit would boost pay… and that’s from the former M&S boss who wants us to STAY in Europe!
“The wages of low-paid workers would rise if Britain left the EU, the chairman of the campaign to remain in Europe admitted yesterday.
Lord Rose, the former boss of Marks & Spencer, told MPs that ending free movement would mean less competition for Labour, so pay would go up [..]”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473925/Brexit-boost-pay-s-former-M-S-boss-wants-STAY-Europe.html
—
Oh, and BTW, if those examples weren’t clear enough, they mean… the less people there are, the better the working class will do financially.
Ergo this also means; the less immigrants, the better the local working class will do…
Jeez! It’s not rocket science, is it!!!!!
This is just about one of the most basic capitalist sacred tenets of supply and demand price discovery. It’s not some ultra super-duper far-right secret agenda going on here… *eye-roll*
If anything, Purple Library Guy, you’re trying to make a political point here, and I agree for the most part of your message, but when it boils down to the practicalities of it: wages, jobs, food on the table, roof over peoples heads…
Nah! That’s where we part ways, I’m afraid :/
-TL2Q
As a fellow German I think you summed it up very well.
I want to mention that there is now a lawsuit against the German government about the usage of Ramstein airbase (written with one m, the second one was added by the known music act for energetic effect ;o)) in the Empire’s wars. It will be heard at the Bundesverwaltungsgericht in Leipzig on April 5. Here’s a recent video (German language, sorry) explaining the process and the (slim) chances of success:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v92lh7-agfA
Activist page: http://www.ramstein-kampagne.eu
“Instead of just taking in the victims of the Empire we need to stand up to the Empire and stop being a part of it. The first step would be removing foreign military bases from our soil and leaving NATO. Followed by war crime tribunals. That would be my Alternative for Germany”.
That will never happen in a million years while America remains in its present form. The NSA has spent billions spying on world leaders and collecting data on everyone they can, they have spent years listening in on calls on Merkels private mobile, they weren’t doing this just for the hell of it. America has Merkel right where they want her, and probably a lot of other German and European politicians as well.
President Putin even made a direct reference to this in one of his speeches which nobody seemed to pick up on at the time, I forget if it was the Valdai speech or the one before that, but he alluded to certain politicians being blackmailed and said “its not for nothing that the NSA spends billions collecting information on everyone”. America has European politicians by the short and curlies and they will sell their own countries and people down the river before any “standing up” to the empire happens. Sadly its going to be the extreme far right knuckle draggers who ultimately end up benefitting from their insanity.
“What kind of idiot could promise anything to Turkey in return for the promise of Turkey to take back illegal migrants on the basis that the EU accepts the same number of other refugees from Turkey?”
I never could see the point of this so called “agreement” myself. So the EU sends X numbers of refugees back to Turkey and Turkey then sends the EU an equal number of refugees back in turn, for which the EU then has the privilege of paying sultan Erdogan $6.6 billion. Pure kabuki. They really must be brain dead, either that or they think their citizens are brain dead. Come to think of it they probably have a point.
“One might think that allowing and subsidizing a huge military base in Germany that is used for such a war of aggression could be a problem for those responsible. But apparently it is not.
This is not even discussed.”
No, and that’s the very hallmark of the Euro-trash — firmly committed to ‘European values’ — in its entirety: Imperialism is OK; immigrants and refugees are not. First World peoples as a whole align against Third World peoples as a whole. Global Apartheid simply breeds reactionary siege paranoia among the better off.
It’s highly instructive here to look at Greece which currently is being mis-managed by the most grossly incompetent, cowardly, and despicable Zionazi lackey government in the entire European Union. Still, for all the deliberate suffering imposed by Western imperialism, just as in Germany, the vast majority of the Greek population sees no reason to oust the puppets — let alone EU or NATO. Remaining a solid, dependable, First World entity is what really counts to the Euro-chauvinist citizenry. This being so, I think they get what they deserve 100% from their proverbial 1%.
Nussiminen, I agree 100%
The Hungarians,Poles and many more including myself disagree 100%
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EbINrdyAXlE
Orban’s speech proves my point exactly: European values = Imperialism is OK; immigrants and refugees are not. He is angry at Brussels, sure, but that’s because he feels stabbed in the back — and rightly so! Point is that the less prosperous peoples of southern and eastern Europe are too stupid and/or too deluded to recognize the Eurocrats’ monumental contempt and indifference when listening to silly fairy-tales of shining European virtue by a bunch of utter nobodies. Orban becomes particularly funny as he hails the Psheks for their alleged resolve and steadfastness. In case you haven’t noticed: Psheks, just like the Ukro-trash (the latter still waiting to become blessed by an EU membership), are highly consenting victims of Western imperial rape; at home and abroad. But really, the most hopeless political prostitute and plain idiot in all of Europe has got to be Tsipras in Greece. He cannot stand up to Turkish gangster Erdogan, neither NATO, nor Brussels. If at least he had chosen the path of Orban, he could have become the Supreme Martyr of Europe’s anti-immigrant swamp.
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Hungary invaded ( raped ) by the soviets or is that one of those western lies I’ve been taught ?
Dear subject Hayek,
We are pleased to hear you complaining about the Warsaw Pact taking action 60 years ago. Deeply regret to inform you, however, that we’re not impressed (or even moved) by any sanctimonious pity-parties. We expect you to do as you’re being told and to meekly pay your annual fees for the Greater Good of Europe; agreed?
Thanks in advance,
/The EU Commission.
Hayek
Yes, you are correct.
The Soviet occupation of Hungary was characterised by crimes against the people. The criminality against person and property continued for decades.
You mention the rape of Hungary. Consider first the literal meaning of the word rape. In only the first weeks of the Red Army tearing into the country the number of rape victims numbered in the thousands. Mass pack rapes of incredible savagery was what occurred. That was a harbinger of things to come. It was the entree to the systematic terror and depravity that was visited upon the Hungarians by the “liberators”. Their country was plundered for decades. The people were impoverished, many tortured, terrorised and murdered. Eventually they rose up against their tormentors in 1956. The Hungarian Revolution started out as a student protest and was immediately joined by the workers. They’d certainly had enough of the socialist wonders that had been visited upon them.
Now what is very most interesting about this spontaneous uprising was not so much that the Hungarian Revolution was doomed (the US told the Soviets that they had a free hand in Hungary and so in rolled the tanks), but the reaction of socialists and communists all over the world. Some were horrified and protested mightily about what was being done to the Hungarian people. Others were privately shocked but did not speak of it. Some (a minority) departed socialist and communist organisation, having realised the true nature of the political system they had striven to bring to their own locales. Many, though, didn’t care much about the suffering of real people, after all they had far too much intellectual and emotional investment in socialist and communist theory to abandon it.
People do remember what was done to them. There are many Hungarians who lived through these times presently still around and there are the sons and daughters of these survivors who have learned all about what occurred. There is a diaspora of Hungarians around the world who are well aware of the history as well.
Right now it is no surprise that Hungarians are generally wary of Russia. They have good reason to be. The distrust is going to take a lot of time to heal. My understanding is that President Putin’s goals in respect of other countries (such as small ones like Hungary) is towards building trade and cultural exchange. This requires the building of relationships at the level of individual persons and over time……. trust.
There is a saying that when the elephants dance ants get squashed. In Europe Hungary is an ant. It has been invaded over its history time and time again. There has been a history of suffering due to this. Mongols, Turks, Austrians, Germans, Russians and now them darn Germans again!
Hungary’s economy is fragile, with vulnerable finance and trading links. Orban walks a tight-rope even more perilous than is President Putin’s. He must be most careful in what he says and does. Nevertheless, in his objections to welfargees and the cultural wrecking their depravity brings to Hungary, he is correct. They ought to go.
Siotu
That is another case of “half-truths” used in the history of Eastern Europe. The pre-World War II Hungary was a police state dictatorship. Workers and peasants activists (and anyone that opposed the regime) was imprisoned,or killed. Their jails were notorious for there torture. The country was ruled by,and for the nobles,upper classes,and upper middle-classes. And it was one of the poorest states in Europe. Only the fading grandeur of pre-WWI Budapest masked that from outsiders. When they sided with Hitler during the war, a pure nazi regime came to power and established an even more hideous and bloody state. Of course when the Soviets fought their way mile by bloody mile through all Hungary there were monstrous things done on all sides.
The government installed there by the Soviets after the war, in the security services and top ranks was made up mostly of Communist Jews (Hungary pre-War had a huge Jewish population). Many of which had been tortured in pre-War Hungarian prisons. They had little sympathy for non-Communist Hungarians. And operated a police state similar to the old one.Though it didn’t benefit the upper class elements like the old one. The Hungarian revolt of 1956 wasn’t a “democratic revolt” as people are told. Its leaders,many of them, were from the old pre-war regime.And they massacred pro-Communist military,police,and government officials that they came across.They also were “encouraged” in the revolt by the CIA. In an early version of a color revolution. The Communist government replaced their leadership with moderate more liberal “ethnic Hungarians” hoping that would calm the revolt. But when the Soviets saw the violence of it. And knew of the Western involvement, The order came to put the revolt down. After the revolt,the new Communist government they put in power made many reforms. And Hungary by the 1980’s was a much richer society than pre-war Hungary was. And was (with East Germany economically) the best off for living conditions and openness of all the Communist countries.For most middle,working,rural Hungarians the post 1989 years have seen their living standards drop. From being one of the richest states in the Soviet bloc. They are now one of the poorest in the EU. But just as before World War II,the modern glitter of Budapest helps mask the real Hungary outside the capital.
Uncle Bob
Your contribution is an attempt to sidestep the horrors of what was done to Hungarian people. It is an effort to mislead, to dodge and to deceive.
Consider, “pre-World War II Hungary was a police state dictatorship. Workers and peasants activists (and anyone that opposed the regime) was imprisoned,or killed. Their jails were notorious for there (sic) torture.”
How many millions of people were in the jails and being tortured in Hungary? How many peasants were being imprisoned and killed? Oh, not millions you’ll be forced to admit. OK, was it some hundreds of thousands then? Oh no, not that many. A hundred thousand? No? So it was less. Tens of thousands. Oh, not that much. Ten thousand then? Remember, no gulags. No death camps. So let’s get this straight. It wasn’t actually anything like the totalitarian horror-show that the “liberators” so generously introduced. Hmmmm.
There was a saying in post-war Hungary. It went along the lines that there were three classes of Hungarian, those who were in jail, those who had been and were lucky enough to have been released (even if only temporarily), and those who were due to be taken to jail. What the Soviets introduced to Hungary was of an order of magnitude that had not been experienced there pre-war. One would have to go as far back as the occupation by the Turks to find a regime that was comparable.
As an aside, it is important to remember that the Soviets were consistently evil in what they imposed upon people everywhere. They were savage on Russian people and even worse when it came to what they did in Ukraine. They were totalitarian monsters of a scale unmatched except by Mao in China and perhaps Pol Pot. Ever notice that all these guys were collectivists of a particular flavour……?
Quoting, “The government installed there by the Soviets after the war, in the security services and top ranks was made up mostly of Communist Jews (Hungary pre-War had a huge Jewish population). Many of which had been tortured in pre-War Hungarian prisons. They had little sympathy for non-Communist Hungarians. And operated a police state similar to the old one.”
You are correct in your contention that the government set in place in Hungary after WW2 was installed there by the Soviets. It was controlled by the Soviets directly under the auspices of Moscow. Hungary was a colony which was raped, as Hayek stated. It is the behaviour of the Soviets, beginning with the barbarities of the Red Army against the civilian population and continuing with the policies and actions of their minions, that has generated the mistrust and suspicion of Russian political and regional intentions.
Prior to the outbreak of WW2 Hungarians had previously experienced the charms of the communists. The atrocities of Bela Kun and the vörösterror comes to mind. Don’t ever forget about this. It was most influential. What occurred was that the communists ran a coup and declared the establishment of a Hungarian Soviet Republic in 1919. They committed numerous atrocities. Interestingly Bela Kun was Jewish as were several of his companions. After the defeat and collapse of his government he fled to……… the USSR. Fancy that! One can be certain that from 1919 on communists were feared and with good reason. Incarceration and torture of communists is understood as a reaction to the vörösterror and the intention by the government to avoid a repeat.
You are incorrect is in claiming the post-war system was operated in similar ways to the pre-war one. They were totally different in composition, decision making, objectives, operation, means and activity. They were very different in terms of depravity, cruelty and totalitarian destructiveness. The post-war regime was anti-ethical to civilisation itself. It was crude and criminal in every aspect. In any case, it pays to remember that the evils of one governmental regime do not justify the evils of another governmental regime.
It is correct that the government set in place by the Soviets in Hungary consisted in its top ranks mostly Communist Jews. It is also the case that the entire apparatus of state suppression at all levels was populated by many Communist Jews right down to Commissars and AVO operatives- thugs all. The depraved cruelty exhibited by these people was extreme. They set out to destroy the Hungarian culture and customs. They set out to destroy the extant society at all levels, peasants and workers included. They set out to destroy people and enslave those they spared. The system was entirely inhumane.
There was a saying that the country was run by criminals, for criminals and as a criminal enterprise.
The admission that the members of the Hungarian government had little sympathy for non-communist Hungarians is revealing. The fact is that these individuals persecuted an entire nation- millions of people. They sure demonstrated their lack of sympathy for what was the vast majority of Hungarians of any and all persuasions. By the way, it did not bother them if a Hungarian was indeed a communist of good standing, they’d still arrest and torture such an individual if it suited. Purges, show trials and the like… Not uncommon in the communist way. Ah, such is the “liberation” of the working class.
Quoting, ” The Hungarian revolt of 1956 wasn’t a “democratic revolt” as people are told. Its leaders,many of them, were from the old pre-war regime.And they massacred pro-Communist military,police,and government officials that they came across.They also were “encouraged” in the revolt by the CIA. In an early version of a color revolution.”
Well, this is misleading. It was not a colour revolution. That is a far more recent phenomena. The Hungarian Revolution started at the foot of the statue of Bem Josef situated on the Buda side of the Danube. It began with a gathering of students reading poetry and making speeches about the suffering of the people. They had a list of grievances. These grievances were factual and not the invention of the CIA or the USA. The students, in the innocence and naivety and the optimism of youth (young people seem not to have changed through the generations), thought the communist government would actually listen to what they had to say and then that it would work with the people to rectify their suffering. They decided to take their list to the parliament building and deliver it to the government. By then many people had heard the speeches and seen what was going on. Word spread quickly through the city and workers, even those as far away as Csepel downed tools and raced to join the crowd. Many of them were well aware of the fate that awaited the students if they walked to parliament alone. But the people had had enough. They joined. They marched across the bridge and on down to the parliament square. There were more speeches and the list was delivered right to the front of the parliament building. No violence yet. The violence began when the AVO opened fire on unarmed, non-violent civilians (workers and students) in front of the radio station near the statue of Stalin in downtown Budapest nearby. Then the Revolution began in earnest. It was therewith confirmed to the people that the government had not any legitimacy other than the fear and violence and destruction it employed. The falsehood of socialism was made visible, naked even to the most ignorant, and eventually even to people outside Hungary.
The people fought against the Soviet occupation. They fought against the government that had been imposed upon them. They had few weapons. Men pulled up tram rails and used those as battering rams to fight against tanks. School children defended Fishermen’s Bastion and the Castle Hill against a column of Soviet tanks. It was hopeless, yet they fought. They fought for themselves as people. THAT is the primary point to note. It was a desperate doomed struggle fought by individuals who had nothing to lose and they knew it.
The CIA “influence”, such that it was, came primarily through Radio Free Europe propaganda broadcasts and leaflets to Hungary. It was well known in the West that conditions throughout the Soviet block were shocking. Tensions were rising, at that time this was particularly the case in Hungary. They broadcast messages of support to Hungarians. The gist of it was a campaign of moral support for them to seek their freedom from the oppression they were suffering under. That was reasonable in so far as it went. The trouble was that they also spread the notion that there was a US led army that was ready to come to their aid should they desire freedom from the soviet oppression. Of course there was no such army. Nor was there the intention to do anything to assist. There was no plan to do a thing. Instead they informed the Soviets that Hungary was firmly in the USSR sphere of influence. There is your American involvement. It was a free pass. The tanks rolled. Andropov and Serov acted swiftly then!
The main point to understand is that despite the duplicitous behaviour of the US government of the time, the US government was not the primary causal element in the outbreak of the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. The people had had enough. They had nothing more to lose. They were desperate. They did not fight for the CIA, or Europe, or democracy, or for the USA, or any of that. They fought to be rid of vile tyranny.
Now I notice you use the term “democratic revolution”, whatever that is supposed to mean. Understand this well. If there had been a free and clean democratic election in 1956 and the Hungarian people had been allowed to determine whether or not they wished for Soviet occupation and retention of the communist government, they would overwhelmingly have voted to reject it outright with immediate effect. Gero and all the rest would have been gone. Gone as well would have been the Soviet Army of occupation.
The “massacres” to which you refer were nothing of the sort. What occurred was that communist officials who had been active in committing the crimes of theft, torture, rape, pillage, murder etc were sought out, recognised in the street and dealt with summarily. These were not mere innocents here by any means. Each of them was criminal, complicit in the terrors that had been committed. They were the equivalent in function and behaviour to the Nazi Gestapo and worse.
A not atypical occurrence was the street justice dealt to an AVO man. He had been responsible for the arrest and torture of a school teacher. The teacher was bludgeoned until he died (it is thought he suffocated on his own broken teeth). The widow, a beautiful young woman, was visited by the AVO man who explained exactly what had been done with her husband. He explained that in order to avoid the same fate she needed someone to “protect” her. His “recommendation” was that someone be him. Of course he would in turn require to be paid for his generous “protection” services. Since she had no money and no property he might want he decided to demonstrate the in-kind payments he had in mind. He raped her. After he raped her, he demanded a meal be cooked for him. As he ate he explained he would be back routinely for further “payments”. He returned like this for many months until a verbal exchange between the two of them resulted in her receiving a beating that put her in hospital. It was a mere 2 years after this that the Revolution occurred. She saw the AVO man on the street He was in civilian attire (not his official uniform). She shouted at him and confronted the man openly. It was the first time she could speak openly about this. A crowd soon gathered. He was pinioned and eventually he was hanged from a lamp post. He was lucky he did not receive anything like the tortures he’d personally meted out to many people.
As stated this was not an atypical situation. Communist officials had been actively committing terrible crimes against people all over the country. They were feared and hated. The hatred was strong. It grew until it was released. The people literally had nothing more to lose other than their fear. Once that fear was lost, then came the time of the expression of the hatred. Communists reaped the harvest they had sown. There was not a communist official caught and dispatched who was innocent of partaking in terrible crimes against the people. That is why they were dealt with so harshly. It would be safe to conclude that had these men been tried in an honest court of justice none of them would have escaped conviction and, given the legal norms of the mid 20th century, execution.
Quoting, “The Communist government replaced their leadership with moderate more liberal “ethnic Hungarians” hoping that would calm the revolt. But when the Soviets saw the violence of it. And knew of the Western involvement, The order came to put the revolt down.”
What duplicitous rewriting of history is this? Imre Nagy, a communist, former member of the government executive and by no means innocent of many of its crimes, dithered and dallied after his superiors fled. He eventually decided he would indeed assume the leadership. After further delays he declared Hungary neutral and independent and went further still, stating the Soviet Army must depart (he was supported unanimously by Hungarians in doing this but it was for this very action he would be executed by his Soviet “brothers”, comrades indeed). The Hungarian Revolution was futile though, for President Eisenhower (the German-American) had already communicated to Premier Khrushchev (the Ukrainian) that the US considered Hungary to be Soviet territory and would not intervene. That was the key “American involvement” right there. So, the tanks rolled. Ambassador Andropov saw to that. He was so peacefully inclined. Soviets, they just were so peaceful. Yeah right mate. Sure.
Re “when the Soviets saw the violence of it”.
They WERE the violence. They were the source of it all. Had they merely withdrawn, saying Hungary is for Hungarians to deal with, there would not have been the huge violence, suffering and death that in fact occurred. The Soviets had no business being in occupation of other people’s place. They had no business importing and applying their foreign (and hopeless) ideology. They were not wanted there.
“And Hungary by the 1980’s was a much richer society than pre-war Hungary was. And was (with East Germany economically) the best off for living conditions and openness of all the Communist countries.”
Which isn’t saying much really. Conditions were terrible compared to what was prevalent in the rest of Western Europe. I visited the country and things were not good. East Germany was worse in many ways. Had Hungary been an independent nation in the late ’50s, then by the 1980s it would have been far superior to what it was or is presently.
“For most middle,working,rural Hungarians the post 1989 years have seen their living standards drop. From being one of the richest states in the Soviet bloc. They are now one of the poorest in the EU.”
Have you lived there? Thought not.
Most middle working rural Hungarians? From personal experience I can state that you do not know what you are on about. Anyway, why didn’t you state “most Hungarians”? Interesting that you are being so terribly specific with your concerns for Hungarian people or, rather, a very particular minority of them. Might it be you are able to employ their situation in favour of something quite gross, like communism perhaps? It is correct that things are difficult in farming. They are especially so when the methods and systems in use are unable to compete with more modern and capital intensive approaches. Wonder why the capital to invest was never there? Thank you communism! Still, there is the deleterious effect of the policies of Brussels and the German bankers. Had you mentioned these you’d have been on firm ground. These have been harmful and they are an immoral pack. Even so they are far from the level of criminality and barbarity of the system imposed on Hungary by the Soviets.
By the way, being at the higher end of the scale of wealth in the Soviet block is well inferior to being at the poorer end of the scale of wealth prevalent in the West. Anyway, much of the wealth Hungary in the ’80s was derived from Western tourists and a modest trade with the West. That is, they had access to hard currency.
Concluding, the Soviets never belonged in Hungary. The system of government they bought was imposed and then maintained by threat, coercion and force. The workers never wanted it. Indeed the Hungarian people never wanted it. The correct result would have been for the Soviets to withdraw their military and allow the Hungarian people to determine their own future path.
Siotu
P.S. the immediate after effects of the resumption of Soviet rule in Hungary included the imprisonment of 13,000 Hungarians and the known execution of some 350 Hungarians.
Jesus Christ — is “Siotu” the private secretary of the world’s most evil Hungarian (GS), perchance? If so, it seems the employment contract stipulates salary based on sheer, dull quantity. Synopsizing clearly not an issue.
“As an aside, it is important to remember that the Soviets were consistently evil in what they imposed upon people everywhere. They were savage on Russian people and even worse when it came to what they did in Ukraine. They were totalitarian monsters of a scale unmatched except by Mao in China and perhaps Pol Pot.”
Again: Your adorable Western overlords have exctly zero love and compassion for Eastern Europe, no matter how ardent the bootlicking. The thread was about Germany, and Hungary, like most of Eastern Europe, was a happy little fascist vassal state of the Reich and got exactly what it deserved after the fascist defeat against the USSR: Soviet military occupation.
It’s quite amusing watching how the flow of immigrants and refugees (deliberately brought about by Soros and associates) is taking its toll on the peace of mind of Western supremacists — Orban be damned.
Hungry was a belligerent, massacring, raping, pillaging and killing soviets to exterminate them.. Revenge rape is the only punishment they got? Genghis khan would cut off their heads and build monuments of such people. And hungry still exists.. Unlike most of the people who had contact with khan even if they never attacked him let alone try to exterminate his people.
Yes, Germany should leave NATO and close all US bases there. Any Syrians who genuinely need help could then be housed in these facilities. Germany should also confiscate US military property on German soil as partial payment for the costs of feeding and housing said refugees.
There is a myth doing the rounds on this and other articles that the Germans, or any other Western peoples for that matter, are an organized collective that can muster and march on a government to effect change. The real West has populations that are atomized after many years of social engineering and is pacified by bread and circuses. And everybody, refugees, Western populations, are motivated primarily out of self-interest, so any rising up, which is an extremely rare phenomenon, will only happen when a population can no longer meet its needs. Don’t ask of people the highly unlikely, if not the impossible.
Bullseye Joe !
No, IMHO not bullseye, but rather BS Joe and Hayek. Unless there is followup treatment to this accurate diagnosis, there is no moral purpose to even bothering with the diagnosis.
What you are saying is “Consciousness is very low. People are atomized entities that cannot think, or act in any higher sense, but only react as mechanically as an amoeba to immediate external stimuli, that are perceived by their 5 senses to either enhance or degrade their immediate material comfort and well-being in terms of food, light, warmth and other external environmental factors as simple, soulless organisms do.”
This is a descriptive, passive approach equivalent to the indicative case in grammar. Such as Walter Cronkite used to communicate at the end of every one of his news broadcasts decades ago: “And that’s the way it IS, November 21, 1963.” (and there’s not a goddamned thing YOU, little man or woman, can DO about it…so don’t even try………..). This is indicative case mind control through fear that you have described, and apparently recommended, in critiquing “a myth doing the rounds” of people here wrestling with the challenges of changing this low bacterial level of consciousness, raising it to a higher level than that of amoebae and effecting change through operating in the creative, moral subjunctive case of true care and love (could, would, should, rather the indicative case IS) of actual human beings made in the image of their Creator.
“Don’t ask of people the highly unlikely, if not the impossible.” Au contraire, Joe. Only descent to the level of reactive bacteria is possible? People cannot possibly rise in consciousness and become more human and less bestial or bacteriological? Really???
That is to say we are all wasting our time, then. Therefore I reject your premise, unless it is a beginning description of the lay of the land, followed up by the moral intent to CHANGE that lay of the land. I do not yet detect such a positive intent in your words so far, but I am open to a re-evaluation in the future, if it is warranted.
Brother Anon
Apart from provision of a sanctimonious lecture, tell us, what exactly are you doing? How are you any different to the people that Joe is describing? Sure, you talk, you moralise, but what are you actually doing that demonstrates any measurable difference?
Talk is cheap.
Siotu
Sahra Wagenknecht from die linke has her latest speech lamblasting Merkel and co posted on fortruss yesterday……
Great speech. 17 February 2016 in German Reichstag. The video is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Yb5P6OdHs (“Sahra Wagenknecht and the Dictatress”), and the English language transcript is at http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/03/german-government-shares-responsibility.html
Oh, again a propaganda piece..
C, you know that Germany has been occupied by USA for 70 years? Do you? You seem to be missing that information completely. Maybe someone should tell you that.
All what Germany does must be seen through the lenses of what GB, Israel and USA want.
Still wondering why ignorant (or maybe uninformed?) people like C are getting opportunity to write German sitereps..
I quote from the 2014 article “Germany Expels U.S. Spy Chief; Opens Geopolitical Can of Worms” by nsnbc founder and editor, Dr. Christof Lehmann:
Whether Lehmann’s interpretation of the referenced foundational documents is sound I cannot say. Others probably can.