If Russia wants to win the Syrian peace they must draw the Kurds of Syria (& Iraq) away from the American embrace.
It should be as simple as pointing out the double dealing by the Americans supporting the Kurds & Turks at the same time – especially while the Turks bomb their supposed allies – the Kurds!
Surely the Kurds realise the Americans will always always pick the Turks over the Kurds?
Draw the Kurds away and chair real peace negotiations in Syria that properly marginalise the Saudi s & Qataris
I think you are right there.The Kurds are the “fly in the ointment”.As long as the US controls them in Iraq (less so in Syria so far).They have an important asset.Russia (and Syria) need to supplant that US influence in Syria.And its important for the Iranians and Iraqis to supplant that influence in Iraq.I’m not sure the best way to do it.But it must be done.
I’m sure you remember who Seymour Hersh is. He wrote the article “The Redirection” which was the first indicator that the US was going to use jihadis as proxies.
Well, I don’t have a Twitter account, but he has posted something there. Could you let us know what the message says. It’s linked to this:
Apparently Hersh is saying something about Obama slowly losing control of the military.
I somehow screwed up applying for the Twitter account & I can’t access it. Could you please let us know what it says. Thanks a lot.
I couldn’t see anything certain on it.But I think that site was talking about statements he made at a conference in Geneva.He was accusing Obama of being dominated by the military.And that the military (and Obama) were tolerating “battlefield” executions in Afghanistan (i.e. murdering prisoners after they are captured on the battlefield).That report isn’t new though, its from 5 years ago.Thing’s probably aren’t any different with Obama’s relationship with the military today.
Thanks for the response, Uncle Bob. Actually I shouldn’t wonder if they’re worse. Virtually everyone is pushing for one, or even two no-fly/buffer zones. Only he & now Gen Austin are saying “no”.
Yes,most governments,(not just the US) have a tension between the military and civilian control of it.Russia and China, I think, for historical reasons (in Russia the military is the “people”.And in China the same,as well as, the PRC was founded by the military victory.) have been better at handling that lately.In the US its papered over,not even really thought of by people.But behind the scenes, away from peoples vision.I think its much bitterer than imagined by most.The US during the 1930’s and 1960’s had several occasions when coups were thought of by the military.And it wouldn’t surprise me if it had been considered during the Bush and Obama regimes as well.If the economy collapses and/or a defeat in the war coming happens,its very likely there could be a coup.Too much polarization in US society I believe to avoid it when the “system” sustains a to massive a shock.
Russia cannot fully do that, they want a good relationship with Turkey, and Turkey hates the kurds. And Turkey is more useful for Russia then the kurds. Also, Turkey might simply realitate if Russia aids or arms the kurds, but arming nazi battalions in Ukraine or sending a few PMcs to Ukraine to fight for the oligarchy.
Russia might actually be clever in leaving USA to aid the kurds, that will really antagonize the relationship between USA and Turkey. Still USA feels it needs to else it looses all control over Syria.
Except,its doubtful Russia,no matter what they do,can get those good relations with Turkey (unless they throw Assad and back the jihadis).Turkey is a lost cause for Russia,whether they are ready to admit it or not.The US right now is controlling the Kurds in Iraq.And the Turks ,while not liking that ,accept it. It allows the US to hold a sword over Baghdad’s head.And a position on Iran’s border,to meddle with the Iranian Kurds as a threat to Iran.While in Syria,the Kurdish position is much weaker.The US,if they can control them can use them against Assad and Russia.And while there is a big problem with Turkey over that ( the Syrian Kurds are anti-Turkish).The US,regardless of Turkish whining holds all the cards in Turkey.If need be, they can ,with a bit of work “color revolution” Erdogan. And I’m sure he knows that.The EU can harm Turkey’s economy badly,if they “really want to”.The real bottom-line for Turkey is,she is another stooge of the empire.They are allowed a “longer leash,but that’s all.At present there are no important forces in Turkey that I’ve heard of, that are pro-Russian enough to revolt against the empire’s control.So Russia would be better to worry about their mission in Syria.To defeat ISIS and save the Syrian state,and with it,Russia’s position in the ME.And to do that ,it would be very helpful to have the Kurds on their side.In case no one has noticed Turkey already “is not on their side”.So getting the Kurds on their side would work as the mirror image of the US having the Iraqi Kurds supporting them.And be a sword over “Ankara’s head”.We are in a pre-war period in the World, as I have said before,”no matter if anyone wants to admit it,or not”.Its important to firm up as many friends,allies,and neutrals,as possible,worldwide.
Excellent analysis again. Turkey is a lost cause for Russia, erdogan is a closet Islamist with delusions of grandeur as the neo-caliph (I believe I heard either Putin or Lavrov make a comment that Erdogan sees himself as a Caliph). Erdogan is monomaniacal about getting of a secular Syria and deposing Assad. Gassan Khedi’s article “The predictable Erdogan” gives great insight on this man’s pan-Islamist motivations: Erdogan’s objectives are wholly contrary to Russia’s security interests in the Caucuses and Central Asia, he can’t be trusted.
Exactly right. I do worry Russia will at some stage throw Assad “under the bus” in the name of a peaceful transition down the road 2 or 3 years.
I understand Putin will be in power until 2024, Russia should guarantee to Assad that he can be guaranteed to stay in power until 2024 as part of any deal. He has Russia’s word.
If they force Assad to transition out too soon they will not only be doing themselves great harm in dealing with any future Syrian Government (that they might think will be friendly but will invariably stab them in the back at Western urging), but they will demonstrate to any prospective allies around the world what a weak and undetermined ally they are.
This already happened somewhat in Ukraine with Yanukovych. If it happens again it won’t do their reputation as steadfast allies any good either.
China too could learn this lesson. Apart from North Korea, Russia & Iran, who are their allies? I mean, real allies that they’d commit ground troops to defend?
“China too could learn this lesson. Apart from North Korea, Russia & Iran, who are their allies? I mean, real allies that they’d commit ground troops to defend?”
Exactly,they have none (that I can think of).And really,I’m not 100% sure they would with those either.China,as much as I think they can play a great role in the World,seems to have a “have our cake and eat it too” attitude.They have a lot of ties with the US economically.And seem to be getting more and more daily.The more they invest in the West is the more they have to lose when the West turns on them (as they are starting to do).I really don’t know what it will take for them to realize that with the US you are either “enemy or vassal” there are no “equal pardners” in their playbook.The Chinese need to be working 24-7 on cutting those ties,slowly but surely,dumping the dollar.And diversifying their entire economy to internal ,and Eurasian based.Instead of investing more and more into North America.That is purely money up for seizure in the future.Look at what happened with Iran.Billions in overseas assets frozen for years.The same ,except on a more massive scale,would happen to China.They shouldn’t put even one dollar in a country the US could grab it from.The more they invest in safe areas,Russia,Iran,Central Asian “stan’s”,Belarus,North Korea,Mongolia,some countries in Southeast Asia,and even Syria and Iraq,and the other BRIC’s and Latin American and African states (the ones not US puppets).The safer their money will be.And along with their money being safe.The trade relations they build will increase the economies in China and those states.Certainly “right now” they might make bigger profits with investing and trading with the US and their stooges.But that won’t help them if they lose it all in one swoop when the US orders it to be seized or frozen over a dispute with China in the future.
wow this is a great panel of guests..I really like them all…especially the dark, middle guy..he’s fantastic….
The reference to the Deep State by the great guy in Washington, was the most reasonable descriptiion of the Deep State that I’ve heard…its the Intelligence communities…military included.
I’m glad Peter is doing this more as a talk show now, and not a crosstalk…because the events now as so important that to even hear the lies coming out of the corrupt west … and even the corrupt east sometimes, are unbearable.
Thank you Peter Lavelle, and Saker Iceland…
I find the nice woman, who works for the Guardian is the most ‘not-on-board’ of all the guests…too bad…she seems to indicate that Syria may have to live with a Caliphate beside it, on the land which used to be in Syria…
There’s as little chance that Syria will tolerate ISIL as a neighbor — in its own country — as there is Donbass tolerating Nazis on their border…actually IN their country.
Mary has not yet fully come to terms with the evil of the US deep state, nor with Obama’s character. There is indeed a power struggle going on within the establishment.
The fanatical psychopath faction wants “no-fly” and “safe” zones. They are willing to risk war with Russia, possibly even nuclear war, to achieve their aim of destabilizing every state in the Middle East. They don’t even care about Turkey. A civil war in Turkey would be just another opportunity to sell weapons to both Turkey and Kurdistan. Amazing that Erdogan doesn’t see the peril he has created for himself.
The realist faction, who are mainly not in power but in opposition, want the US to cooperate with Russia and put an end to ISIS. Several retired military are speaking out: http://mebriefing.com/?p=1978. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard is being very vocal. Call or email her to thank her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Q8X60KQ9Q. Also, Laurence Wilkerson has spoken out many times about our insane foreign policy.
I used to think Obama was committed to the interventionist regime change foreign policy, but now I’m not sure. I think he vacillates. Philosophically, I still think he believes in regime change, but he’s now seeing some rather extreme results and is having second thoughts and occasionally listening to the realists.
I think the fanatic group is a section of both parties.Those in and out of power.They have a “horse in every race”.Which is why you see Clinton (the Democrat) and McCain (the Republican) both anti-Russian and anti-Assad.And I also think there are realists in both parties.Its just since they have less to lose when out of power you see most of that group that are Republicans talking right now.
All of that scheming, money spent and lives wasted to bring about the 9/11 False Flag so the USA would have an excuse to invade the ME, destroying nations Israel doesn’t like, is now in danger of going up in Russian smoke.
No wonder John ‘Canary’ McCain is so PO these days.
Is Obama a dum empty suit who has painted himself into a corner, or
Is Obama always fighting the deep state.
I’ve heard alot of defenses of Obama suddenly, in the last days…its started here with Penelope defending him and saying what a great guy he really was….
Can this be true ?
I don’t think so..but I don’t think he’s really stupid either…although I don’t know him personally.
I’ve read articles by people who knew him in university who said he was a clear thinker..????
Ann, Never did I say that Obama was great guy, as you very well know. Apparently you did not understand my post, so perhaps you oughtn’t to comment on it.
@An.”The reference to the Deep State by the great guy in Washington, was the most reasonable descriptiion of the Deep State that I’ve heard…its the Intelligence communities…military included”
That is a very common description of the Deep State. Not the only one. Some people say teh CIA plus only certain elements of the military. Because the CIA has its own agenda that they don’t ask or tell the military about. Nothing new there, but good to have the Deep State out there for discussion on Crosstalk. It might make a good topic for a Crosstalk.
IMO, the discussion was driven by Chandan in London in terms of putting the current Syria and ME sitiation in a longer historical perspective, connecting dots between the Brits’ activities in Ireland and the USA’s in Central America. His comments were well constructed. I think he was prepared for this show!
I don’t think the issue is “defenses of Obama” but rather trying to understand his game, if he has one. This is also an question with a long history. Obama has always been a cypher to many (especially, I think, the people who placed the most hope in him and then were totally disillusioned, as opposed to those who still “believe”), and he continues to be one. Just one example (one of the most nuanced that I have read) , DAvid Bromwich wrote a long piece in the LRB in which he parsed the Obama personality and tried to get behind what really drives the man. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n20/david-bromwich/obamas-delusion
Some on this list have surmised that Obama is actually working in concert with Putin. That implies that he is not in control in Washington, and is in effect trying to get “saved” again by Putin, as in the bomb scenario two years ago. It is possible. To me he seems like a lamb lost in the woods, who was pushed forward by a cabal of some kind in Illinois/Chicago and perhaps doesn’t himself quite understand the deal he made with the devil. Or, he does (example of JFK: talk about the Deep State!!) and doesn’t know what to do about it. The man is a heavy smoker!!
@Penelope “Ann, Never did I say that Obama was great guy, as you very well know. Apparently you did not understand my post, so perhaps you oughtn’t to comment on it.”
I am afraid you might have to start getting used to this kind of thing, Penelope. As Sasha stated a few days ago:
“I must say, Ann, your belligerence is the reason I stopped visiting this place after being a very frequent reader. Never a pleasure to come across your “attack dog” posts. Please dis-appoint yourself from this role.”
“I must say, Ann, your belligerence is the reason I stopped visiting this place after being a very frequent reader. Never a pleasure to come across your “attack dog” posts. Please dis-appoint yourself from this role.”
I believe Chandan is Indian (or of Indian descent) and so has personal knowledge of how “Empire’s” have treated the Global South (I think that is the new PC term for what we used to call the Third World).He was very good at “calling a spade a spade”.
I recall after Obama won re-election he turned to his wife and said:
“I — did it!”
This tells me he is at least as good as a deluded egomaniac and it is conceivable such a person might see themselves as the only person capable of combatting the deep state.
And his deep state controllers might find it useful to diminish the office of the President beyond all recognition — so it’s a perfect fit.
nice video of Syrian ambassador talking to “In The Now”..cute the way he keeps criticizing the host for drumming on the same old drum…..and how she takes it…very well…
Why is John Kerry so eager to convene an emergency summit on Syria now when the war has been dragging on for four and a half years?
Is he worried that Russia’s air campaign is wiping out too many US-backed jihadis and sabotaging Washington’s plan to topple Syrian President Bashar al Assad?
You bet, he is. No one who’s been following events in Syria for the last three weeks should have any doubt about what’s really going on. Russia has been methodically wiping out Washington’s mercenaries on the ground while recapturing large swathes of land that had been lost to the terrorists. That, in turn, has strengthened Assad’s position in Damascus and left the administration’s policy in tatters. And that’s why Kerry wants another meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov pronto even though the two diplomats met less than a week ago.
And that might explain why the US decided to bomb Aleppo’s main power plant last week plunging the entire city into darkness; because Obama wants to “rubblize” everything on his way out. Keep in mind, that the local water treatment plants require electrical power, so by blowing up the plant, Obama has condemned tens of thousands of civilians to cholera and other water-born diseases. Apparently, our hospital-nuking president isn’t bothered by such trivial matters as killing women and children. Now check this out from the Daily Star: Read more here : http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/29/putin-makes-obama-an-offer-he-cant-refuse/
30-40K terrorists.. That’s the number… Less than 10K have left so still a way to go, I agree with the author, Russia can not let these terrorists escape. Air America is already actives ending those who ran off to Turkey move to Yemen. They will destroy Yemen and then move them to China or Russia like they did before. I think the WAR has not yet started.. Russia is building the supply lines for the real war. This is just a police action to open logistics and communications, already destroy the partisans so they cant sabotage your supply lines..
Unfortunately, the problem Obama is going to encounter is that Putin can’t simply turn off the war machine with the flip of a switch. It took Moscow a long time to decide to intervene in Syria, just like it took a long time to marshal the forces that would be deployed, build the coalition and draft the battleplan. The Russians don’t take war lightly, so now that they’ve put the ball into motion they’re not going to stop until the job is done and the bulk of the terrorists have been exterminated. That means there’s not going to be a ceasefire in the immediate future. Putin needs to demonstrate that once Moscow commits its forces, it will persevere until it achieves victory. That victory could come in the form of “liberating Aleppo” and a subsequent sealing off of the Turkish-Syria border or he might have some other goal in mind. But it’s a matter of credibility as much as anything. If Putin pulls back, hesitates or shows even the slightest lack of resolve, Washington will see it as a sign of weakness and try to exploit it. So Putin has no choice but to see this thing through to the bitter end. At the very least, he needs to prove to Washington that when Russia gets involved, Russia wins.
————–
Talking about the reconstruction of Syria’s war-torn regions, President Assad said companies from different countries have already offered their services in rebuilding Syria. While French and Swiss firms are among those ready to participate, the Syrian government will do its best to give Russian companies the best contracts, Assad added.
Speaking of the French companies.I read Sarkozy was in Russia.He made a speech saying the EU and Russia should be friends.And he met with Putin who praised him afterwards.Now I wouldn’t trust him at all personally.But still,he is a politician,and see’s that the EU is being screwed by the US.He also wants to be President again.And he knows that he needs to beat Le Pen to get that.So if he can play both sides,he might do it.Which could be good for Russia to have him at least being “somewhat” friendly.
Please, Mr. Putin, drop a few bombs in the green-and-lilac-striped area!!
I see that “rebels” are colored differently on this map from “Daesh.”
Not sure how to activate Google translate when one is already at a page whose text is in Russian. Is there a button somewhere?
I think the Green areas are “non-ISIS terrorists”,the Black are ISIS,the Yellow are Kurds.And the Red is the government.While the stripped just means mixed groups in control of that area.So the Black and Green would mean both groups of terrorists are in control there.And yes,I’d like to see all the non-Red areas inside mostly Red areas liberated before pushing on to the other areas.That would seem to me to make more sense, to secure your rear areas before worrying about front areas.
Both yandex and google give you a box to cut and paste the text you want translated as the web link does not work in places which have like age limitations and logins. Its harder but unless sites are designed to do auto translations, they have trouble doing a good job. You could paste the link into the box and check..
Liz I think you need to get a better translator: the col cassad article you’ve linked is stating that the Syrian Government army is succeeding (the exact opposite of what you conveyed):
From col cassad Oct 29, 2015
Para 1:
Isis attack on as-safir is crushed, ISIS deaths in the range of 50 vermin dead and 120 severely wounded; SAA KIA are 25. ISIS badly defeated and routed.
Para 3:
ISIS attack to the North kuweoris afb defeated/repulsed, ISIS defeated badly from the South-East with Syrian Government forces taking the following villages one after another:
Dzhabul, then Nasiriyah and finally Sheikh Ahmad putting them only within 2-Km of the Kuyweiris AFB.
Anybody who thinks that drugged up Islamist fighters who rape little girls and behead little boys are the best fighters in the world needs to have their head examined or their sympathies scrutinized: The syrian army is beating the cr-p out of these ISIS degenerates; any normal standing army can do this, Western MSM myth making notwithstanding.
Seems to be a lot of activity. Mostly seems to be establishing supply lines and reinforcements.
Syrian Army, Hezbollah recapture Jisr al-Shughour, near Syria-Turkey border
Damascus, 28-29/10/2015 ~ The Russian Air Force carried out 70 sorties in the past 24 hours targeting 120 terrorist targets in Idleb, Homs, Aleppo, Damascus Countryside, and Lattakia’s northern countryside, a military source told SANA on Wednesday.
Quneitra
Army units, in cooperation with the popular defense groups, repelled Jabhat al-Nusra terrorists who infiltrated into the surroundings of al-Baath city, Khan Arnaba town, Dahret al-Kassara and Tal Ahmar in the southern Quneitra province.
Daraa
An army unit targeted Wednesday night a gathering of terrorists to the south of Khirbet Ghazala town, 20 km to the north of Daraa City.
Sweida
An army unit, aided by the popular defense groups, targeted Wednesday night an ISIS position including vehicles equipped with machine guns in Khirbet Saad in the northeastern countryside of the southern Sweida province.
Hama/Idleb
At least 37 terrorists were killed during the army units’ continued operations in the countryside extending between Hama and Idleb with a cover from the Air Force.
Deir Ezzor
Army units defending Deir Ezzor military airport destroyed a car bomb for ISIS and killed many of its members.
Aleppo
Groups of ISIS terrorists, most of them of foreign nationalities, infiltrated in the past few hours Um al-Janayen village and the farms surrounding al-Sfeira city in southeastern Aleppo province in an attempt to control it.
Damascus countryside
More than 23 terrorists from Jabhat al-Nusra and Jaish al-Islam were killed in the army’s operations against their dens in eastern al-Ghouta in Damascus countryside.
Homs
An Army unit killed 10 terrorists and destroyed a vehicle equipped with a heavy machinegun in al-Masharee’ area towards Jawalek village in Homs northern countryside.
Daraa
A Syrian Arab Army unit destroyed a vehicle belonging to Jabhat al-Nusra terrorist organization and killed all the terrorists inside it on the road between the Meteorology Department building and al-Sad in Daraa al-Balad neighborhood in Daraa city.
Lieutenant Hussein Al-Ahmad, undercover agent at the service of his Homeland and Syrian Military Intelligence.
A former Syrian Army officer that defected to the Free Syrian Army (FSA) in Dara’a province in 2012 has returned to Damascus after completing his three-year-long spying mission for the Syrian Military Intelligence.
As you can see, the charity isnt really helping Syrians, but killing those who dont support the so-called “revolution” in Syria. Another charity doing the same is called “Every Syrian.”
Its members are also terrorists from the “Free Syrian Army”. It isnt free, nor does it have plans to bring “freedom” or “democracy” to Syria. Its a United States and United Kingdom supported group of Muslim Brotherhood supported terrorists and highly paid mercenaries trying to overthrow the legitimate government of Syria. Charitable looking bunch of chaps, eh?
The biggest scam of all is ON the people around the world that really want to help the innocent Syrians who are in a proxy war raged against them for the last 4.5 years so they donate to these scam charities.
So next time you want to actually help a Syrian, do your research to find out where your money really goes.
Otherwise, you arent just aiding terrorism in Syria, but your helping the members of the Muslim Brotherhood buy really nice homes, vacation homes, cars, bikes, etc. and take very lavish vacations around the world.
So empire of Qater decided to not invade Syria.. “What we are seeing and what we are fearing is an Arab-Persian conflict which we want to avoid,” Attiyah said, urging Iran to “calm down (its) language… to help facilitate” dialogue.
Gen. Joseph Dunford, says legally supported rebels have not been bombed by the Russians..
McCain says that is not true.. His pals are getting clobbered and some cant find their hands and legs and are running around without heads…. Not a pretty sight.. McCain ie..
BOING!!!!! Seems officially the US is not supporting terrorists but then what do you call a member of the US government meeting with them and supporting them mean? Either he hangs at the Hague or he hangs at home..
During questioning of Secretary of Defence Ashton Carter., Carter admitted that neither Russia, nor the Syrian Army has targeted any of the US-trained terrorists.
ISIS video shows 3 Christians executed in Hasaka
Kurdish Yezidi appears before UN Security Council, demands action against ISIS-They did not promise anything but would make sure McCaine knows where the other Yezidi are hiding so as to provide some humanitarian aides..
“The Saudi regime has committed war crimes and its presence in the multilateral Vienna talks on Syria is dubious and illegitimate,” Major General Hassan Firouzabadi, head of Iran’s armed forces, was quoted as saying by state news agency IRNA.
The Syrian opposition has objected to Iran’s participation in the talks – the first time it has attended such a meeting on Syria – because of its military support for President Bashar al-Assad.
Syria’s main political opposition body and representatives of the armed opposition have not been invited to international talks on the country’s war, an opposition politician and a rebel leader said.
Bashar al-Zoubi of the Yarmouk Army, a group affiliated to the Free Syrian Army, told Reuters that representatives of the armed opposition had not been invited to the Vienna meeting.
In fact, more and more Muslims around the world are stopping to view the civil war in Syria as a «glorious revolution» or even a fight between the Sunni majority and an amalgam of Syrian minorities (Alawite, Shia Moslem, Christians, etc.). The Muslims start to view it rather as a senseless, foreign-provoked fight between previously friendly (or neutral) communities. The desire to see Assad toppled is replaced by the desire to see the civil war ending and to avoid a similar fate for their own countries.
«Turkey will continue seeking a regime change in Syria, but it will not undertake any serious measures against Russia’s support for the Syrian regime». – said Ekrem Guzeldere, Istanbul-based political analyst with the European Stability Initiative, – «First, Turkey is economically dependent on Russian gas. Second, [president] Erdogan feels a kind of admiration for Putin, because of Putin’s independent stance. So, there will be a lot of sarcasm, but not too many non-cautious actions from Turkey».
Amply documented but rarely mentioned in news reports, the ISIS is a creation of US intelligence, recruited, trained and financed by the US and its allies including Britain, France, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Israel and Jordan.
Until recently, the ISIS was known as Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI). In 2014, it was renamed the Islamic State (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant).
“The U.S. spy agency has been arming and training rebels in Syria since 2013 to fight the Assad regime (WSJ, September 30, 2015 emphasis added, author’s note: covert support to the terrorists was provided from the outset of the war in March 2011)
Affiliated to Al Qaeda, Al Nusra is a US sponsored ”jihadist” terrorist organization which has been responsible for countless atrocities. Since 2012, AQI and Al Nusra — both supported by US intelligence– have been working hand in glove in various terrorist undertakings within Syria.
In recent developments, the Syrian government has identified its own priority areas for the Russian counter-terrorism air campaign, which consists essentially in targeting Al Nusra. Al Nusra is described as the terrorist arm of the Free Syrian Army (FSA).
While the Pentagon now candidly acknowledges that the CIA is supporting Al Qaeda affiliated groups inside Syria, including Al Nusra, it nonetheless deplores the fact that Russia is allegedly targeting the “good guy terrorists”, who are supported by Washington:
The forbidden truth is that by providing military aid to both Syria and Iraq, Russia is (indirectly) confronting America.
Moscow will be supporting both countries in their proxy war against the ISIL which is supported by the US and its allies.
Erdogan is still bombing the Kurds inside Syria. One of the reasons is that they want to occupy the last 165 mi stretch of Turkish border over which Turkey supplies ISIS. US has always informed the Kurds that they will get no aircover in this area. This stretch begins at the Western side of the river and extends West. Turkey delivers arms & ISIS recruits there. However, ISIS can be supplied over the Iraqi border instead.
I think the battle is very heavy right now because ISIS is shifting its forces in Iraq into Syria.
as a tinypartof theglobal south, i´m vigilant day and night and waiting for one outcome: end of chaos policy , definite end of the western led violence.
thank you, Putin. Adelante Lavrov!
Yes, Obama’s actions are extremely interesting– as the expression of a faction which is in opposition to the Bush/neocon/CIA “war on the world” which has been discredited even among those who wish to continue the progression towards a global oligarchy. Of course the opposition faction only wants more covert means, rather than a different end.
Upon election I thought Obama was completely captured by the neocons, per Webster Tarpley’s book showing that both his parents and one grandparent had been CIA. Also he worked for a CIA cover company in his youth. Then when he surrounded himself w the Democratic equivalent of PNAC and uttered only neocon rhetoric I was confirmed in his villainy.
It was only after I’d read about the 5th seemingly nutty apologia by Thierry Meyssan that I began to notice that Obama’s actions don’t match his repulsive rhetoric. A little research showed he was actually trying to stop the Syrian war back in 2012, but was undermined by Hillary, Petraeus & Jeffrey Feldman, etc.
Really, if you once admit that CIA is out of his control, he has otherwise done all w/in his power to slow or undermine the US attack on Syria. The story behind the ineffectual “training of moderates” shows that it was Obama’s undermining of the program– often to a ludicrous degree– that caused its failure.
Then, as Ghassian Kadi said, the air coalition against ISIS was actually intended to bomb it– but Gen Allen prevented effective bombing & even sent doctored intell to the WH indicating ISIS was being weakened!
Later (and still) Obama has been remarkably diligent about dismantling & now preventing no-fly & buffer zones. He is seemingly isolated in this position, but cannot be acting alone. As nearly as I can figure it out it is the re-emergence of the faction which always governed before the takeover by Bus Sr & his neocons & CIA. So the previous in-control faction was the Rockefeller/CFR group w the anglophiles. Naturally there are some more prudent people in the military– actual good guys.
And then there’s the “overlooking” of the Russian action in Syria. My goodness, Lavron actually announced on the day of the signing of the Iranian deal that Now the way is clear for a coalition w Iran against ISIS. US didn’t just “accidentally” overlook what was happening. I don’t believe it for a minute. T
Anyway, how else explain Obama’s undermining of neocon policy while wearing the protective cammo of neocon rhetoric?
Oh well, can’t blame everybody for preferring the more heroic story of Russian defiance. Wish I believed it.
Penelope:
I too have been reading Thierry Meyssan and he does have some persuasive arguments. I am not well enough informed to be able to formulate my own hypothesis. So, I am as puzzled an “Obama watcher” as many others. I do not rule out teh possibility that that things are are you outline.
JFK was trying to reach a modus operandi with Russia/Kruscchev/the rest of the noncapitalist world when he was rubbed out. In other words, he was isolated. I have written a few comments in this direction on this blog. My principal source on that is James Douglass’s JFK and the Unspeakable It is now establsihed beyond doubt that JFK had looked into the abyss after the missile crisis, looked at Caroline playing in the Rose Garden, and said; We gotta stop this madness! He opened back channels to both Castro and Krushchev. Krushchev, simlilarly, was isolated and these communiques had to be undertaken VERY circumspectly, in secret from own military and intelligence services (a book has just appeared on this subject, i.e., this is now established in the conventional world,although the interpretations differ).
Personally, i don’t think Obama had or has any kind of vision for this country. He was stage-managed and borrowed his oratorical style from real black preachers. To me he comes across as juvenile and cold. He has daughters. He might be really scared of the direction in which things are drifting. At the same time I am disgusted by the button-pushing drone warfare that he is personally engaging in and he must know that the wedding parties are attended by girls just like his daughters. So, I personally am not really inclined to give a lot of credence to the “Obama and Putin are secretly working tog ether for the good of the world” view. But, hey, I’m no expert. I am not betting anything on what the Essence of Obama is.
As a lame duck seems to me he could go out on a limb and take some stands and sh ow some leadership. Especially diplomatic leadership. As the head of the executive branch of government he has enormous power, but he seems to have missed that civics class and has never appeared to understand how to wield that power. Like, he could have shut down Guantanomo, just for starters. .He is also the supreme military commander. Of course, the first big mistake he made, as you point out, was to fail to create a loyal cabinet around himself and his Kitchen cabinet—Oy vey. You cannot stand alone against the various forces of the Deep State, whatever they may be (I reckon that the Deep State is a protean shape shifter, depending on what the stakes are at any one time; and the clash of the vulcans surely is also carried out at the Deep State level).
Bottom line: Obama, you are no JFK.
Rand Paul, the new Speaker of the House, has come out with a statement against greater US military involvement in Syria: “We Must Oppose Obama’s Military Escalation in Syria and Iraq!” http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43276.htm
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Ron Paul, it can only feel like good news to me that a national-level politician is openly countering the AShton Carter huffing and puffing. Even if Paul’s reasons are not completely congruent with “ours.”
An article by William Engdahl referencing the ‘deep state’ . It is essentially a mafia-enforcement operation, the mafia being the Anglo-Atlantic ‘robber barons’ who once plundered continents openly, now covertly.
What is genuinely disturbing is the depths of depravity they sink to in their pursuance of objectives:
Very interesting Sybil Edmonds mention in teh Engdahl piece.
(Engdahl is an odd quanty IMO. He is clearly very smart and can put 2 & 2 togetehr. But I don’t know what to make of his signing on to theory that oil is continually produced wtihin the earth and pushed closer to the surface where it “refills” oil seams. But that is OT.)
One of the cases that Edmonds considers pivotal is the many-layered corruption case against Dennis Hastert—which keeps going nowhere faster and faster, because it implicates a whole lot of higher-ups.
Hastert is the former speaker of the House who is from, wait for it, Illinois.
You can see the video about it here: http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2015/10/19/the-peoples-campaign-the-real-hastert-case-all-in-one-place/
Scroll down to “The Hastert Scandal: What the Media Isn’t Telling You.” There is a video there.
Two points that I find particularly curious:
1. Hastert’s connections to Turkey
2. Hastert’s Illinois base. A whole bunch of Illinois pols are implicated in repugnant and very illegal shenanigans that are a blackmailer’s wet dream. Including Barack Obama. He came up politically through this mire and I very much doubt that he is untouched by the political filth around him. In fact, Ronald Tice says as much. So, seems to me there are quite a few dots to connect here.
“Hastert rose through the Republican ranks in the House, becoming chief deputy whip and eventually Speaker in 1999.
As Speaker of the House, Hastert supported the George W. Bush administration’s foreign and domestic policies. After Democrats took control of the House in 2007 following the 2006 election, Hastert chose not to seek the position of minority leader, resigned his House seat, and became a lobbyist at the firm of Dickstein Shapiro.”
Since the end of World War II, what some call the “deep state” has taken hold of the American Republic, stripping the citizens of meaningful control over national security issues, with CIA Director Allen Dulles playing a key early role, according to David Talbot’s new biography reviewed by Lisa Pease.
David Talbot’s new book The Devil’s Chessboard is an anecdotal biography of not just Allen Dulles but of the national security establishment that he helped create. Talbot gave himself the monumental task of summing up a 25-year slice of important history.
Talbot writes about the ratlines (escape routes from Europe to Latin America for Nazis), but in the context of one particularly Machiavellian character. He writes about Lee Harvey Oswald from the point of view of one of his friends who sold him down the river to the Warren Commission, likely at the behest of the CIA, a friend who later ostensibly committed suicide just as a member of the House Select Committee on Assassinations was about to interview him. Talbot talks about the CIA’s mind-control programs in the context of Allen Dulles submitting his own son to those horrors.
Launching the Cold War
During the Nuremberg trials, again, Dulles took the side opposite of what FDR had wanted, the meting out of stern justice for such egregious crimes. Where Roosevelt and other Allied leaders saw war criminals, Dulles saw potential spies to be rescued.
Talbot devotes several chapters to Dulles’s cooperation with and protection of the Nazis. One chapter is devoted to Dulles’s bringing the “Gehlen organization” into the fold of U.S. intelligence, with dubious results.
Talbot makes a compelling argument that a lot of the abuses of the intelligence apparatus that we are dealing with now had their genesis under Allen Dulles’s version of the CIA. He traces the notion that the CIA is “above the law” and unanswerable to oversight to the McCarthy hearings, where Dulles earned the undying loyalty of the CIA by refusing to turn over Sen. Joe McCarthy’s targets for questioning.
mmiriww (mystery handle, that!):
You beat me to it! I was about to post a link to a review of this book from ICH.
Here is that review, by someone named Dr. Edward Curtin (I don’t know who he is): http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43285.htm.
The review is long, but is, itself, a must-read.
Curtin states: “The Paines are very important figures in the assassination and seeing them clearly would add to his powerful thesis.” They (and their CIA connections) are discussed in much more detail in “JFK and the Unspeakable.”
We can’t really talk about the Deep State without talking about the JFK assassination. The run-up. JFK knew what he was up against, that his life was in danger. He tried to save the republic from the Dulles cabal.
The Deep State, Secret Government—whatever you want to call it, it exists.
Katherine
I though boosh was cia director when JFK was assassinated. I know Dulles was on the commission and he was one of the biggest criminals so putting him in charge of the investigation is like the fox investigating who ate the chickens. And as we saw in 911.. No matter how impossible and improbable things are, they will say that’s how it is and the tin foil hats are not being patriotic.
I also saw that the boosh’s records were purged from everywhere by his son’s presidential order.. So we will never even know about what was behind it all. Aint it nice to have the power to wipe history from the pages..
Katherine, I don’t think Obama’s a JFK or is considering the good of the world either. I think he’s the point man of a faction which wishes to pursue the same global oligarchy, but by quieter means that don’t awaken the masses. When the previous faction was in power the primary means was the usurpation of the sovereignty of nations thru supranational institutions like IMF, WTO, World Bank and NAFTA, TTIP., etc Under the Fed/IMF system most countries cannot create their own money & credit (including Russia), and so have to borrow at interest.
Re: Guantanamo. I think there is a missing piece that we don’t know, there. But certainly he’s done many other bad things. Both factions want to destroy our liberty within the US. I only point out this business of the factions cuz it can help us to understand and to predict events. And perhaps to encourage us all to look away occasionally from the aggressive acts towards the monetary, trade & economic structures which make up the architecture of the global oligarchy.
I didn’t know about Rand Paul, thank you. There is also a Senate Armed Services Cmte member. Her name is Tulsi Garrard. There’s a video interview of her on cnn above at Wm Rood’s comment. People who show great deference towards some others feel secretly humiliated and therefore lash out w hostility. Anyway it’s certainly interesting & baffling times we live in.
Penelope
These comments do not seem to align with the “Obama and Putin are working together” meme.
“I think he’s the point man of a faction which wishes to pursue the same global oligarchy, but by quieter means that don’t awaken the masses.”
I guess that may mean by financial, not military, means.
But I don’t think he has the cojones nor leadership abilities to be a point man. Maybe more like a figurehead. Always a cypher.
And i would add, maybe in one piece himself. He likes the celebrity and the golfing and the ego rush, not the job. When it comes to the job, he really isn’t much better than the Shrub. He has zero skills at handling Congress (probably never figured out that it was part of the job; don’t you just stand there as THe President and announce your wishes??) and no one on Capitol Hill seems to give a FF what he thinks or does.
I agree with you there.I think the worst thing he has done is waste his 2nd term.As a lame-duck he could do exactly as you say.Not to defend him in any way (he was a horrible disappointment).I think the answer to why he hasn’t done anything is two-fold.One his “legacy” is controlled by his party.If he tries massive changes and fails his legacy would be classed as worse than it is now.And he is afraid to chance it.And second (somewhat tied to the first),he wants (needs) to be followed by another Democrat as President.And you can bet the Democrat leadership is begging (forcing) him to not do anything to screw that up on his end.So I don’t expect him to do much during this next year to help anything.I’m just hoping he doesn’t do anything to hurt either.
Your contention that the “Anglophiles” are part of the non-interventionist groups allied with Obama belies some publicly known facts (points 1-3)
1) French foreign minister Dumas exposed that it was the British and French, working in London, that were plotting the destruction of the Assad govt 2 years before the 1st protest in Damascus.
2) Bill & Hillary Clinton belong to Anglophile branch (Wilsonian) of the Democrat party, that is well documented. Hillary is, accord your own words, pushing for an attack on Syria
3) pig-o-phile Cameron (google it) has tried repeated to initiate an attack on Syria, including bypassing parliament by ordering a drone strike in Syria. It was fact that Russia openly confronted the US Fleet in Mediterranean that gave British MPs cold feet in authorizing an attack (despite British bombast, they fully understand just what Russia can and will do to their now impotent little island should things go out of control).
4) This point, like your post is a theory:
The American faction that against support of ISIS are known as the patriot faction of the American Power Structure (I.e. Americans that don’t have divided loyalties to non-American nations but only to their US homeland, this precludes the Anglophiles and their loyalty to the Brit elite); primarily, but not limited to, the US military (such DIA director Flynn who leaked the ISIS creation memo to the media, Reb Gabbard, and other examples provided by other posters here, like William Rood) DIA = Defense Intelligence Agency
Yes, I agree, Anonymous, there are a great many actual patriots who don’t desire a global oligarchy, by whatever strategy used as a means.
By Anglophile, I didn’t mean all Englishmen or even all English in the power structure. Hillary is a neocon thru & thru, closely linked during her Secy of State tenure w Petraeus, Gen Allen & other neocons. The rhetoric in her case is sincere. In Obama’s it’s more protective coloration, to conceal his actions in undermining important bits of the Bush/neocon/CIA foreign policy of sheer aggression. Those who preceeded Bush Sr also used military force, but not so continuously & blatantly.
Yes, I know about Francois Dumas having been told at a party in London that it was planned to take Syria down. The first that I know of the more prudent faction beginning to take real exception to the actions of the more reckless faction is that already in 2012 Obama was trying to make peace in Syria & was undermined. Although I somehow think they must have felt real consternation at 9-11.
The first public sign of factional in-fighting of which I was aware was the editorial by the bigwig of the CFR telling Obama publicly that he ought to get rid of his White House advisors & hire some of these named people instead– then he named an equal number of Republicans & Dems. He also said Obama should meet regularly w certain wise men like Kissinger, etc. Unprecedented.
I don’t think I’m explaining this very well. It is of course obvious to you that the US has pursued a more obviously murderous path since the breakup of the USSR– and even one step more so since 9-11. This is dangerous to The Plan. They are winning. They don’t need to practice brinkmanship. The difference in recommended approach is like the difference between Greece (without a single bullet they have all the assets, plus tribute for years & Years) and Syria.
I believe with Thierry Meyssan and a couple others that the policy of widespread chaos is finished and that a new mid eastern order is being engineered. Te old school that is trying to take the power back wants to concentrate on Russia & China.
But now its starting to look like that authors of the material you’re reading are trying to make the facts fit their theory, specifically:
Yes, I know about Francois Dumas having been told at a party in London that it was planned to take Syria down.
That is not correct, I speak French fluently, I listened to Dumas’ comment in the raw: he was urged to join the effort to destabilize Syria (with an implied offer of benefits), to which he declined citing his loyalty to France and its interests. He described the anti-Syrian efforts and planning, being conducted in London, as large-scale & considerable in scope. It was glaring that their was no mention of American involvement (at the time).
Regarding the term Anglophiles: with respect to discussions on the US power structure, Anglophile has a very a specific meaning like the term Atlanticist in the Russian political context. The origins of this group of unAmerican treasonous slime can be traced back to President Woodrow (Woodhead) Wilson, a fool (by his own admission in his memoirs), that due to his admiration of and cultivation by the British elite, was duped into believing in and supporting a Transatlantic Anglo-Saxon power elite. It is this group that fully brought the Federal Reserve system into the united states, they are tied in hand in glove with the Rothschild and other European banking elite.
The Clinton’s are on record thru their own public statements (and from the company they kept) of belonging to the Wilsonian branch of the Democratic party. However, given the crass, lowlife and opportunistic character of the Clinton’s even their adherence and loyalty to the Transatlantic AngloSaxon structure is nominal at best. By the same token, their support of Neocon causes is pure political opportunism and not sincere: the Clinton’s loyalty can purchase for money. If the money and political support were to stop, Hitlery & Bill would flip-flop on Neocon causes virtually overnight.
I read other posts by you, some of them are very valuable. Therefore, this is not personal critique of a fellow traveller, who, like me, and others here, are trying to get at a semblance of the truth.
Can I suggest you obtain copies “Tragedy and Hope” and “The Anglo-American Establishment: From Rhodes to Cliveden” by Carroll Quigley,
Professor at George Town University and one of Bill Clinton’s personal mentors (Bill Clinton was one of his best students).
Very encouraging that Jatras, a former advisor to US Senate Republican leadership, would have his head screwed on so straight. Now, if they would just rehire him and make him a former former advisor.
Mary’s commentary starting around 15:40 is spot on. The person of Assad is actually irrelevant, both to Russia and the US. His only importance is that he is currently the only politician who can hold Syria together. The goal is the destruction of the Syrian state, and Assad stands in the way. That’s why the US, Saudi Arabia and Turkey say he must go immediately, and that’s why Russia says he must stay at least in the interim. The former want to destroy the Syrian state; the latter wants to preserve it.
Right. She makes that point in very clear language (it has been made, but not quite so clearly).
I think Putin has also made the point—a corollary, so to speak—that he championsnot only Assad, not only the Syrian state, but he and Russia champion the concept of the state, and state sovereignty. This last is what the Empire seems to be bent on violating and ultimately destroying. Putin has rightly pointed out (I think in the UNGA speech) that the international system of law relies on the existence of sovereign states.
Katherine
William the point that “the person of Assad is irrelevant” is not something i believ to be correct.
Having lived in the region, I can tell you that Assad and his family are the ones who have skillfully held that country together: Assad, being more forward looking than his father, was building institutions where this would become part of the system and not require a single alliance of clans or personality to keep the secular multi-ethnic multi religious setup of Syria intact. The war destroyed this along with other modernization efforts on Assad’s part.
There’s another point, Putin cannot reward the criminals that want Assad gone: Putin has made it clear that he expects respect for International law, and non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries. This is an issue of principle for Putin (because it affects Russia directly), particularly after what happened to mommar Qaddafi. For just that reason alone Assad has to stay, to drive that point home. It is precisely the “regime-change” or alleged “human-rights abusing” leader removal excuse/wedge that the Anglo-Atlantic mafia uses to invade and pillage key countries. According to Putin this has to be knipped in bud: China and India agree (5 principles/Pancheel doctrine).
Remember Mary works for the Guardian and is somewhat more cunning in towing the Western narrative; a little bit over year back Saker described her in accurate but unflattering terms when she was soft-pedaling the pro-Kiev MSM lies on Ukraine:
Saker words: Listening to Mary Dejevsky spew her arrogant certitudes about the Ukraine gave me a stomach ache and I had to stop [watching]
I agreed with Sakers opinion of her at that time and don’t take too much stock in her apparent ‘reasonableness’ (She’s an adept of the “agree and slime” method).
Thanks, Espelho, for your information re the Assad family.
So much to learn.
Re “Assad, being more forward looking than his father, was building institutions where this would become part of the system and not require a single alliance of clans or personality to keep the secular multi-ethnic multi religious setup of Syria intact.”
Isn’t that also the “classical” process of nation building?
Isn’t that partly what Napoleon did for France? Bismarck for Germany?
It is most soothing (and wishful) to hear how the Russian move in Syria marks no lees than a watershed in the world politics of the last quarter century. And yes, it does look that way.
However, do consider the sobering thought put forward by Alexander Mercouris in the preceding CrossTalk ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zab-V6Gui18 , from 1:54):
(quote)…the great risk, the very big risk, is that people in Washington, who are not happy with the situation at all, are going to find or look for ways to escalate the conflict, in order to make what Russians are trying to do in Syria fail…(unquote)
The AngloZionist Empire is not about to go down without a desperate fight – and an assuredly dirty one, no-holds-barred. The outcome is anyone’s guess…
Regarding the Deep State listen to a few videos of Peter Dale Scott. Continuity of Govt is a very important theme. Secret laws. Did you know that we have been living under a legally passed State of Emergency, which has sevral important ramifications? Periodically it comes up for renewal. By law Congress must review it at that time, but each time the President simply renews it & no one mentions it.
There have been quite a few false flag events which blame a sole gunman for mass killings. These are of course to deprive the American people of weapons; why is that so important to them? In addition, there have been just recently a spate of hoaxes– where no one is killed: Sandy Hook, Boston Marathon, probably Charlie, There was one in Canada and another in Australia. Maybe that one in Britain where they “killed” a member of the military or police, then stood around waiting for the police to arrive. The Hoax Events are a rehearsal. They look at the coverage, at how people respond to it. Possibly they want to find out how to extend the limits of what people will accept if its presented more persuasively.
Although the power structure relies heavily on supranational institutions it also relies on ideology to inspire those who work for the world which they are creating and which requires the wiping out of the civilization which we know. And you are right Eimar, pedophilia is often a part of it. It serves at least a few purposes: to pervert an important seat of pleasure; to confirm one in the belief that he is exceptional and can break the rules that lesser people cannot; to willingly supply a weapon for blackmail as proof of loyalty to the group; and as part of group-bonding rituals.
Above all is the belief that one must accept no limits in pursuit of the plan– deceit, murder, torture– all are virtues if they help to gain the group’s goal. http://vigilantcitizen.com/category/sinistersites/ Look at the Denver Airport & at Rockefeller Ctr.
The go-to site on the Boston Marathon and also the workings of the Deep State is Russ Baker’s WhoWhatWhy. org. Baker is the author of Family of Secrets. He also has at his site excerpts from Talbot’s The Devil’s Chessboard, on the attempts on De Gaulle’s life orchestrated by Dulles & Co..
If Russia wants to win the Syrian peace they must draw the Kurds of Syria (& Iraq) away from the American embrace.
It should be as simple as pointing out the double dealing by the Americans supporting the Kurds & Turks at the same time – especially while the Turks bomb their supposed allies – the Kurds!
Surely the Kurds realise the Americans will always always pick the Turks over the Kurds?
Draw the Kurds away and chair real peace negotiations in Syria that properly marginalise the Saudi s & Qataris
I think you are right there.The Kurds are the “fly in the ointment”.As long as the US controls them in Iraq (less so in Syria so far).They have an important asset.Russia (and Syria) need to supplant that US influence in Syria.And its important for the Iranians and Iraqis to supplant that influence in Iraq.I’m not sure the best way to do it.But it must be done.
Uncle Bob,
I’m sure you remember who Seymour Hersh is. He wrote the article “The Redirection” which was the first indicator that the US was going to use jihadis as proxies.
Well, I don’t have a Twitter account, but he has posted something there. Could you let us know what the message says. It’s linked to this:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1060193/pg1
Apparently Hersh is saying something about Obama slowly losing control of the military.
I somehow screwed up applying for the Twitter account & I can’t access it. Could you please let us know what it says. Thanks a lot.
I couldn’t see anything certain on it.But I think that site was talking about statements he made at a conference in Geneva.He was accusing Obama of being dominated by the military.And that the military (and Obama) were tolerating “battlefield” executions in Afghanistan (i.e. murdering prisoners after they are captured on the battlefield).That report isn’t new though, its from 5 years ago.Thing’s probably aren’t any different with Obama’s relationship with the military today.
Thanks for the response, Uncle Bob. Actually I shouldn’t wonder if they’re worse. Virtually everyone is pushing for one, or even two no-fly/buffer zones. Only he & now Gen Austin are saying “no”.
Yes,most governments,(not just the US) have a tension between the military and civilian control of it.Russia and China, I think, for historical reasons (in Russia the military is the “people”.And in China the same,as well as, the PRC was founded by the military victory.) have been better at handling that lately.In the US its papered over,not even really thought of by people.But behind the scenes, away from peoples vision.I think its much bitterer than imagined by most.The US during the 1930’s and 1960’s had several occasions when coups were thought of by the military.And it wouldn’t surprise me if it had been considered during the Bush and Obama regimes as well.If the economy collapses and/or a defeat in the war coming happens,its very likely there could be a coup.Too much polarization in US society I believe to avoid it when the “system” sustains a to massive a shock.
Russia cannot fully do that, they want a good relationship with Turkey, and Turkey hates the kurds. And Turkey is more useful for Russia then the kurds. Also, Turkey might simply realitate if Russia aids or arms the kurds, but arming nazi battalions in Ukraine or sending a few PMcs to Ukraine to fight for the oligarchy.
Russia might actually be clever in leaving USA to aid the kurds, that will really antagonize the relationship between USA and Turkey. Still USA feels it needs to else it looses all control over Syria.
Except,its doubtful Russia,no matter what they do,can get those good relations with Turkey (unless they throw Assad and back the jihadis).Turkey is a lost cause for Russia,whether they are ready to admit it or not.The US right now is controlling the Kurds in Iraq.And the Turks ,while not liking that ,accept it. It allows the US to hold a sword over Baghdad’s head.And a position on Iran’s border,to meddle with the Iranian Kurds as a threat to Iran.While in Syria,the Kurdish position is much weaker.The US,if they can control them can use them against Assad and Russia.And while there is a big problem with Turkey over that ( the Syrian Kurds are anti-Turkish).The US,regardless of Turkish whining holds all the cards in Turkey.If need be, they can ,with a bit of work “color revolution” Erdogan. And I’m sure he knows that.The EU can harm Turkey’s economy badly,if they “really want to”.The real bottom-line for Turkey is,she is another stooge of the empire.They are allowed a “longer leash,but that’s all.At present there are no important forces in Turkey that I’ve heard of, that are pro-Russian enough to revolt against the empire’s control.So Russia would be better to worry about their mission in Syria.To defeat ISIS and save the Syrian state,and with it,Russia’s position in the ME.And to do that ,it would be very helpful to have the Kurds on their side.In case no one has noticed Turkey already “is not on their side”.So getting the Kurds on their side would work as the mirror image of the US having the Iraqi Kurds supporting them.And be a sword over “Ankara’s head”.We are in a pre-war period in the World, as I have said before,”no matter if anyone wants to admit it,or not”.Its important to firm up as many friends,allies,and neutrals,as possible,worldwide.
Uncle Bob1,
Excellent analysis again. Turkey is a lost cause for Russia, erdogan is a closet Islamist with delusions of grandeur as the neo-caliph (I believe I heard either Putin or Lavrov make a comment that Erdogan sees himself as a Caliph). Erdogan is monomaniacal about getting of a secular Syria and deposing Assad. Gassan Khedi’s article “The predictable Erdogan” gives great insight on this man’s pan-Islamist motivations: Erdogan’s objectives are wholly contrary to Russia’s security interests in the Caucuses and Central Asia, he can’t be trusted.
Exactly right. I do worry Russia will at some stage throw Assad “under the bus” in the name of a peaceful transition down the road 2 or 3 years.
I understand Putin will be in power until 2024, Russia should guarantee to Assad that he can be guaranteed to stay in power until 2024 as part of any deal. He has Russia’s word.
If they force Assad to transition out too soon they will not only be doing themselves great harm in dealing with any future Syrian Government (that they might think will be friendly but will invariably stab them in the back at Western urging), but they will demonstrate to any prospective allies around the world what a weak and undetermined ally they are.
This already happened somewhat in Ukraine with Yanukovych. If it happens again it won’t do their reputation as steadfast allies any good either.
China too could learn this lesson. Apart from North Korea, Russia & Iran, who are their allies? I mean, real allies that they’d commit ground troops to defend?
“China too could learn this lesson. Apart from North Korea, Russia & Iran, who are their allies? I mean, real allies that they’d commit ground troops to defend?”
Exactly,they have none (that I can think of).And really,I’m not 100% sure they would with those either.China,as much as I think they can play a great role in the World,seems to have a “have our cake and eat it too” attitude.They have a lot of ties with the US economically.And seem to be getting more and more daily.The more they invest in the West is the more they have to lose when the West turns on them (as they are starting to do).I really don’t know what it will take for them to realize that with the US you are either “enemy or vassal” there are no “equal pardners” in their playbook.The Chinese need to be working 24-7 on cutting those ties,slowly but surely,dumping the dollar.And diversifying their entire economy to internal ,and Eurasian based.Instead of investing more and more into North America.That is purely money up for seizure in the future.Look at what happened with Iran.Billions in overseas assets frozen for years.The same ,except on a more massive scale,would happen to China.They shouldn’t put even one dollar in a country the US could grab it from.The more they invest in safe areas,Russia,Iran,Central Asian “stan’s”,Belarus,North Korea,Mongolia,some countries in Southeast Asia,and even Syria and Iraq,and the other BRIC’s and Latin American and African states (the ones not US puppets).The safer their money will be.And along with their money being safe.The trade relations they build will increase the economies in China and those states.Certainly “right now” they might make bigger profits with investing and trading with the US and their stooges.But that won’t help them if they lose it all in one swoop when the US orders it to be seized or frozen over a dispute with China in the future.
Obama’s 3rd Term!! Ha, is she trying to predict the future now?
Let’s for godsake hope not.
wow this is a great panel of guests..I really like them all…especially the dark, middle guy..he’s fantastic….
The reference to the Deep State by the great guy in Washington, was the most reasonable descriptiion of the Deep State that I’ve heard…its the Intelligence communities…military included.
I’m glad Peter is doing this more as a talk show now, and not a crosstalk…because the events now as so important that to even hear the lies coming out of the corrupt west … and even the corrupt east sometimes, are unbearable.
Thank you Peter Lavelle, and Saker Iceland…
I find the nice woman, who works for the Guardian is the most ‘not-on-board’ of all the guests…too bad…she seems to indicate that Syria may have to live with a Caliphate beside it, on the land which used to be in Syria…
There’s as little chance that Syria will tolerate ISIL as a neighbor — in its own country — as there is Donbass tolerating Nazis on their border…actually IN their country.
Mary has not yet fully come to terms with the evil of the US deep state, nor with Obama’s character. There is indeed a power struggle going on within the establishment.
The fanatical psychopath faction wants “no-fly” and “safe” zones. They are willing to risk war with Russia, possibly even nuclear war, to achieve their aim of destabilizing every state in the Middle East. They don’t even care about Turkey. A civil war in Turkey would be just another opportunity to sell weapons to both Turkey and Kurdistan. Amazing that Erdogan doesn’t see the peril he has created for himself.
The realist faction, who are mainly not in power but in opposition, want the US to cooperate with Russia and put an end to ISIS. Several retired military are speaking out: http://mebriefing.com/?p=1978. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard is being very vocal. Call or email her to thank her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Q8X60KQ9Q. Also, Laurence Wilkerson has spoken out many times about our insane foreign policy.
I used to think Obama was committed to the interventionist regime change foreign policy, but now I’m not sure. I think he vacillates. Philosophically, I still think he believes in regime change, but he’s now seeing some rather extreme results and is having second thoughts and occasionally listening to the realists.
William,
You can’t vacillate between realism and fanaticism. You are either one or the other.
It’s simpler than that (Occam’s Razor). His perceived vacillation is a function of where at any given moment he senses the greatest personal threat.
Hunting with the hounds and running with the hares.
I think the fanatic group is a section of both parties.Those in and out of power.They have a “horse in every race”.Which is why you see Clinton (the Democrat) and McCain (the Republican) both anti-Russian and anti-Assad.And I also think there are realists in both parties.Its just since they have less to lose when out of power you see most of that group that are Republicans talking right now.
All of that scheming, money spent and lives wasted to bring about the 9/11 False Flag so the USA would have an excuse to invade the ME, destroying nations Israel doesn’t like, is now in danger of going up in Russian smoke.
No wonder John ‘Canary’ McCain is so PO these days.
so the big question left by this show is :
Is Obama a dum empty suit who has painted himself into a corner, or
Is Obama always fighting the deep state.
I’ve heard alot of defenses of Obama suddenly, in the last days…its started here with Penelope defending him and saying what a great guy he really was….
Can this be true ?
I don’t think so..but I don’t think he’s really stupid either…although I don’t know him personally.
I’ve read articles by people who knew him in university who said he was a clear thinker..????
So, that is a real question.
Does he read comics or journals ?
Ann, Never did I say that Obama was great guy, as you very well know. Apparently you did not understand my post, so perhaps you oughtn’t to comment on it.
@An.”The reference to the Deep State by the great guy in Washington, was the most reasonable descriptiion of the Deep State that I’ve heard…its the Intelligence communities…military included”
That is a very common description of the Deep State. Not the only one. Some people say teh CIA plus only certain elements of the military. Because the CIA has its own agenda that they don’t ask or tell the military about. Nothing new there, but good to have the Deep State out there for discussion on Crosstalk. It might make a good topic for a Crosstalk.
IMO, the discussion was driven by Chandan in London in terms of putting the current Syria and ME sitiation in a longer historical perspective, connecting dots between the Brits’ activities in Ireland and the USA’s in Central America. His comments were well constructed. I think he was prepared for this show!
I don’t think the issue is “defenses of Obama” but rather trying to understand his game, if he has one. This is also an question with a long history. Obama has always been a cypher to many (especially, I think, the people who placed the most hope in him and then were totally disillusioned, as opposed to those who still “believe”), and he continues to be one. Just one example (one of the most nuanced that I have read) , DAvid Bromwich wrote a long piece in the LRB in which he parsed the Obama personality and tried to get behind what really drives the man. http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n20/david-bromwich/obamas-delusion
Some on this list have surmised that Obama is actually working in concert with Putin. That implies that he is not in control in Washington, and is in effect trying to get “saved” again by Putin, as in the bomb scenario two years ago. It is possible. To me he seems like a lamb lost in the woods, who was pushed forward by a cabal of some kind in Illinois/Chicago and perhaps doesn’t himself quite understand the deal he made with the devil. Or, he does (example of JFK: talk about the Deep State!!) and doesn’t know what to do about it. The man is a heavy smoker!!
@Penelope “Ann, Never did I say that Obama was great guy, as you very well know. Apparently you did not understand my post, so perhaps you oughtn’t to comment on it.”
I am afraid you might have to start getting used to this kind of thing, Penelope. As Sasha stated a few days ago:
“I must say, Ann, your belligerence is the reason I stopped visiting this place after being a very frequent reader. Never a pleasure to come across your “attack dog” posts. Please dis-appoint yourself from this role.”
Katherine
Salam Sister Katherine,
“I must say, Ann, your belligerence is the reason I stopped visiting this place after being a very frequent reader. Never a pleasure to come across your “attack dog” posts. Please dis-appoint yourself from this role.”
Well Said! :)
Best regards,
Mohamed.
I believe Chandan is Indian (or of Indian descent) and so has personal knowledge of how “Empire’s” have treated the Global South (I think that is the new PC term for what we used to call the Third World).He was very good at “calling a spade a spade”.
“its started here with Penelope defending him and saying what a great guy he really was….”
-You are just trolling. Where did she say he was a great guy? Come on..
I recall after Obama won re-election he turned to his wife and said:
“I — did it!”
This tells me he is at least as good as a deluded egomaniac and it is conceivable such a person might see themselves as the only person capable of combatting the deep state.
And his deep state controllers might find it useful to diminish the office of the President beyond all recognition — so it’s a perfect fit.
nice video of Syrian ambassador talking to “In The Now”..cute the way he keeps criticizing the host for drumming on the same old drum…..and how she takes it…very well…
Now THAT was a terrific program. James Jatras even mentioned the Deep State!
Why is John Kerry so eager to convene an emergency summit on Syria now when the war has been dragging on for four and a half years?
Is he worried that Russia’s air campaign is wiping out too many US-backed jihadis and sabotaging Washington’s plan to topple Syrian President Bashar al Assad?
You bet, he is. No one who’s been following events in Syria for the last three weeks should have any doubt about what’s really going on. Russia has been methodically wiping out Washington’s mercenaries on the ground while recapturing large swathes of land that had been lost to the terrorists. That, in turn, has strengthened Assad’s position in Damascus and left the administration’s policy in tatters. And that’s why Kerry wants another meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov pronto even though the two diplomats met less than a week ago.
And that might explain why the US decided to bomb Aleppo’s main power plant last week plunging the entire city into darkness; because Obama wants to “rubblize” everything on his way out. Keep in mind, that the local water treatment plants require electrical power, so by blowing up the plant, Obama has condemned tens of thousands of civilians to cholera and other water-born diseases. Apparently, our hospital-nuking president isn’t bothered by such trivial matters as killing women and children. Now check this out from the Daily Star: Read more here :
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/29/putin-makes-obama-an-offer-he-cant-refuse/
30-40K terrorists.. That’s the number… Less than 10K have left so still a way to go, I agree with the author, Russia can not let these terrorists escape. Air America is already actives ending those who ran off to Turkey move to Yemen. They will destroy Yemen and then move them to China or Russia like they did before. I think the WAR has not yet started.. Russia is building the supply lines for the real war. This is just a police action to open logistics and communications, already destroy the partisans so they cant sabotage your supply lines..
Unfortunately, the problem Obama is going to encounter is that Putin can’t simply turn off the war machine with the flip of a switch. It took Moscow a long time to decide to intervene in Syria, just like it took a long time to marshal the forces that would be deployed, build the coalition and draft the battleplan. The Russians don’t take war lightly, so now that they’ve put the ball into motion they’re not going to stop until the job is done and the bulk of the terrorists have been exterminated. That means there’s not going to be a ceasefire in the immediate future. Putin needs to demonstrate that once Moscow commits its forces, it will persevere until it achieves victory. That victory could come in the form of “liberating Aleppo” and a subsequent sealing off of the Turkish-Syria border or he might have some other goal in mind. But it’s a matter of credibility as much as anything. If Putin pulls back, hesitates or shows even the slightest lack of resolve, Washington will see it as a sign of weakness and try to exploit it. So Putin has no choice but to see this thing through to the bitter end. At the very least, he needs to prove to Washington that when Russia gets involved, Russia wins.
————–
Talking about the reconstruction of Syria’s war-torn regions, President Assad said companies from different countries have already offered their services in rebuilding Syria. While French and Swiss firms are among those ready to participate, the Syrian government will do its best to give Russian companies the best contracts, Assad added.
https://www.rt.com/business/319974-russia-syria-contracts-construction/
Excellent post mmirww.
Speaking of the French companies.I read Sarkozy was in Russia.He made a speech saying the EU and Russia should be friends.And he met with Putin who praised him afterwards.Now I wouldn’t trust him at all personally.But still,he is a politician,and see’s that the EU is being screwed by the US.He also wants to be President again.And he knows that he needs to beat Le Pen to get that.So if he can play both sides,he might do it.Which could be good for Russia to have him at least being “somewhat” friendly.
Latest update from Cassad, ISIS is continuing their push into SAA, how can ISIS be so strong? :(
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2451547.html
Please, Mr. Putin, drop a few bombs in the green-and-lilac-striped area!!
I see that “rebels” are colored differently on this map from “Daesh.”
Not sure how to activate Google translate when one is already at a page whose text is in Russian. Is there a button somewhere?
Katherine
I think the Green areas are “non-ISIS terrorists”,the Black are ISIS,the Yellow are Kurds.And the Red is the government.While the stripped just means mixed groups in control of that area.So the Black and Green would mean both groups of terrorists are in control there.And yes,I’d like to see all the non-Red areas inside mostly Red areas liberated before pushing on to the other areas.That would seem to me to make more sense, to secure your rear areas before worrying about front areas.
Both yandex and google give you a box to cut and paste the text you want translated as the web link does not work in places which have like age limitations and logins. Its harder but unless sites are designed to do auto translations, they have trouble doing a good job. You could paste the link into the box and check..
https://translate.google.com/
https://translate.yandex.com/web?ncrnd=6569
Liz I think you need to get a better translator: the col cassad article you’ve linked is stating that the Syrian Government army is succeeding (the exact opposite of what you conveyed):
From col cassad Oct 29, 2015
Para 1:
Isis attack on as-safir is crushed, ISIS deaths in the range of 50 vermin dead and 120 severely wounded; SAA KIA are 25. ISIS badly defeated and routed.
Para 3:
ISIS attack to the North kuweoris afb defeated/repulsed, ISIS defeated badly from the South-East with Syrian Government forces taking the following villages one after another:
Dzhabul, then Nasiriyah and finally Sheikh Ahmad putting them only within 2-Km of the Kuyweiris AFB.
Anybody who thinks that drugged up Islamist fighters who rape little girls and behead little boys are the best fighters in the world needs to have their head examined or their sympathies scrutinized: The syrian army is beating the cr-p out of these ISIS degenerates; any normal standing army can do this, Western MSM myth making notwithstanding.
Re Idlib/Hama operation:
According to Zaid Fadel there is a news blackout, so nobody can be certain what’s happening in that area:
http://syrianperspective.com/2015/10/idlib-blackout-on-jisr-al-shughoor-as-battles-intensify-russians-abort-saudijordanianzionist-operation-against-damascus-syrian-army-kills-over-100-rats-in-idlib.html
Seems to be a lot of activity. Mostly seems to be establishing supply lines and reinforcements.
Syrian Army, Hezbollah recapture Jisr al-Shughour, near Syria-Turkey border
Damascus, 28-29/10/2015 ~ The Russian Air Force carried out 70 sorties in the past 24 hours targeting 120 terrorist targets in Idleb, Homs, Aleppo, Damascus Countryside, and Lattakia’s northern countryside, a military source told SANA on Wednesday.
Quneitra
Army units, in cooperation with the popular defense groups, repelled Jabhat al-Nusra terrorists who infiltrated into the surroundings of al-Baath city, Khan Arnaba town, Dahret al-Kassara and Tal Ahmar in the southern Quneitra province.
Daraa
An army unit targeted Wednesday night a gathering of terrorists to the south of Khirbet Ghazala town, 20 km to the north of Daraa City.
Sweida
An army unit, aided by the popular defense groups, targeted Wednesday night an ISIS position including vehicles equipped with machine guns in Khirbet Saad in the northeastern countryside of the southern Sweida province.
Hama/Idleb
At least 37 terrorists were killed during the army units’ continued operations in the countryside extending between Hama and Idleb with a cover from the Air Force.
Deir Ezzor
Army units defending Deir Ezzor military airport destroyed a car bomb for ISIS and killed many of its members.
Aleppo
Groups of ISIS terrorists, most of them of foreign nationalities, infiltrated in the past few hours Um al-Janayen village and the farms surrounding al-Sfeira city in southeastern Aleppo province in an attempt to control it.
Damascus countryside
More than 23 terrorists from Jabhat al-Nusra and Jaish al-Islam were killed in the army’s operations against their dens in eastern al-Ghouta in Damascus countryside.
Homs
An Army unit killed 10 terrorists and destroyed a vehicle equipped with a heavy machinegun in al-Masharee’ area towards Jawalek village in Homs northern countryside.
Daraa
A Syrian Arab Army unit destroyed a vehicle belonging to Jabhat al-Nusra terrorist organization and killed all the terrorists inside it on the road between the Meteorology Department building and al-Sad in Daraa al-Balad neighborhood in Daraa city.
Lieutenant Hussein Al-Ahmad, undercover agent at the service of his Homeland and Syrian Military Intelligence.
A former Syrian Army officer that defected to the Free Syrian Army (FSA) in Dara’a province in 2012 has returned to Damascus after completing his three-year-long spying mission for the Syrian Military Intelligence.
https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/10/29/saa-russian-army-report/
As you can see, the charity isnt really helping Syrians, but killing those who dont support the so-called “revolution” in Syria. Another charity doing the same is called “Every Syrian.”
Its members are also terrorists from the “Free Syrian Army”. It isnt free, nor does it have plans to bring “freedom” or “democracy” to Syria. Its a United States and United Kingdom supported group of Muslim Brotherhood supported terrorists and highly paid mercenaries trying to overthrow the legitimate government of Syria. Charitable looking bunch of chaps, eh?
The biggest scam of all is ON the people around the world that really want to help the innocent Syrians who are in a proxy war raged against them for the last 4.5 years so they donate to these scam charities.
So next time you want to actually help a Syrian, do your research to find out where your money really goes.
Otherwise, you arent just aiding terrorism in Syria, but your helping the members of the Muslim Brotherhood buy really nice homes, vacation homes, cars, bikes, etc. and take very lavish vacations around the world.
https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/10/18/deadly-aid/
Salam Everyone,
On the talk show there are 3 men and 1 woman. Why it is always the women who make more sense.
In the the end she says the truth about Obama and she is cut off by the breaded man and the show ends.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Nice idea. The likes of Anne Applebaum – the exception that proves the rule? And if you look beyond talk shows, Samantha Powers…?
So empire of Qater decided to not invade Syria.. “What we are seeing and what we are fearing is an Arab-Persian conflict which we want to avoid,” Attiyah said, urging Iran to “calm down (its) language… to help facilitate” dialogue.
Gen. Joseph Dunford, says legally supported rebels have not been bombed by the Russians..
McCain says that is not true.. His pals are getting clobbered and some cant find their hands and legs and are running around without heads…. Not a pretty sight.. McCain ie..
BOING!!!!! Seems officially the US is not supporting terrorists but then what do you call a member of the US government meeting with them and supporting them mean? Either he hangs at the Hague or he hangs at home..
During questioning of Secretary of Defence Ashton Carter., Carter admitted that neither Russia, nor the Syrian Army has targeted any of the US-trained terrorists.
ISIS video shows 3 Christians executed in Hasaka
Kurdish Yezidi appears before UN Security Council, demands action against ISIS-They did not promise anything but would make sure McCaine knows where the other Yezidi are hiding so as to provide some humanitarian aides..
“The Saudi regime has committed war crimes and its presence in the multilateral Vienna talks on Syria is dubious and illegitimate,” Major General Hassan Firouzabadi, head of Iran’s armed forces, was quoted as saying by state news agency IRNA.
The Syrian opposition has objected to Iran’s participation in the talks – the first time it has attended such a meeting on Syria – because of its military support for President Bashar al-Assad.
Syria’s main political opposition body and representatives of the armed opposition have not been invited to international talks on the country’s war, an opposition politician and a rebel leader said.
Bashar al-Zoubi of the Yarmouk Army, a group affiliated to the Free Syrian Army, told Reuters that representatives of the armed opposition had not been invited to the Vienna meeting.
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-opposition-rebels-not-invited-vienna-talks-093304978–business.html
In fact, more and more Muslims around the world are stopping to view the civil war in Syria as a «glorious revolution» or even a fight between the Sunni majority and an amalgam of Syrian minorities (Alawite, Shia Moslem, Christians, etc.). The Muslims start to view it rather as a senseless, foreign-provoked fight between previously friendly (or neutral) communities. The desire to see Assad toppled is replaced by the desire to see the civil war ending and to avoid a similar fate for their own countries.
«Turkey will continue seeking a regime change in Syria, but it will not undertake any serious measures against Russia’s support for the Syrian regime». – said Ekrem Guzeldere, Istanbul-based political analyst with the European Stability Initiative, – «First, Turkey is economically dependent on Russian gas. Second, [president] Erdogan feels a kind of admiration for Putin, because of Putin’s independent stance. So, there will be a lot of sarcasm, but not too many non-cautious actions from Turkey».
Amply documented but rarely mentioned in news reports, the ISIS is a creation of US intelligence, recruited, trained and financed by the US and its allies including Britain, France, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Israel and Jordan.
Until recently, the ISIS was known as Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI). In 2014, it was renamed the Islamic State (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant).
“The U.S. spy agency has been arming and training rebels in Syria since 2013 to fight the Assad regime (WSJ, September 30, 2015 emphasis added, author’s note: covert support to the terrorists was provided from the outset of the war in March 2011)
Affiliated to Al Qaeda, Al Nusra is a US sponsored ”jihadist” terrorist organization which has been responsible for countless atrocities. Since 2012, AQI and Al Nusra — both supported by US intelligence– have been working hand in glove in various terrorist undertakings within Syria.
In recent developments, the Syrian government has identified its own priority areas for the Russian counter-terrorism air campaign, which consists essentially in targeting Al Nusra. Al Nusra is described as the terrorist arm of the Free Syrian Army (FSA).
While the Pentagon now candidly acknowledges that the CIA is supporting Al Qaeda affiliated groups inside Syria, including Al Nusra, it nonetheless deplores the fact that Russia is allegedly targeting the “good guy terrorists”, who are supported by Washington:
The forbidden truth is that by providing military aid to both Syria and Iraq, Russia is (indirectly) confronting America.
Moscow will be supporting both countries in their proxy war against the ISIL which is supported by the US and its allies.
Prof Michel Chossudovsky, globalresearch.ca
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/10/04/obama-accuses-russia-of-going-after-america-good-guy-terrorists.html
mmiriww,
Erdogan is still bombing the Kurds inside Syria. One of the reasons is that they want to occupy the last 165 mi stretch of Turkish border over which Turkey supplies ISIS. US has always informed the Kurds that they will get no aircover in this area. This stretch begins at the Western side of the river and extends West. Turkey delivers arms & ISIS recruits there. However, ISIS can be supplied over the Iraqi border instead.
I think the battle is very heavy right now because ISIS is shifting its forces in Iraq into Syria.
Sorry, I think it’s only a 65 mile stretch of border that is at issue.
Peter Lavelle is still waiting for his dream “orange juice” candidate* for US president. Sorry, still Coke and Pepsi, try again later…
Ron Paul would have been orange juice. Donald Trump is Red Bull – high energy.
*from ‘Empire USA’ Crosstalk
as a tinypartof theglobal south, i´m vigilant day and night and waiting for one outcome: end of chaos policy , definite end of the western led violence.
thank you, Putin. Adelante Lavrov!
Katherine,
Yes, Obama’s actions are extremely interesting– as the expression of a faction which is in opposition to the Bush/neocon/CIA “war on the world” which has been discredited even among those who wish to continue the progression towards a global oligarchy. Of course the opposition faction only wants more covert means, rather than a different end.
Upon election I thought Obama was completely captured by the neocons, per Webster Tarpley’s book showing that both his parents and one grandparent had been CIA. Also he worked for a CIA cover company in his youth. Then when he surrounded himself w the Democratic equivalent of PNAC and uttered only neocon rhetoric I was confirmed in his villainy.
It was only after I’d read about the 5th seemingly nutty apologia by Thierry Meyssan that I began to notice that Obama’s actions don’t match his repulsive rhetoric. A little research showed he was actually trying to stop the Syrian war back in 2012, but was undermined by Hillary, Petraeus & Jeffrey Feldman, etc.
Really, if you once admit that CIA is out of his control, he has otherwise done all w/in his power to slow or undermine the US attack on Syria. The story behind the ineffectual “training of moderates” shows that it was Obama’s undermining of the program– often to a ludicrous degree– that caused its failure.
Then, as Ghassian Kadi said, the air coalition against ISIS was actually intended to bomb it– but Gen Allen prevented effective bombing & even sent doctored intell to the WH indicating ISIS was being weakened!
Later (and still) Obama has been remarkably diligent about dismantling & now preventing no-fly & buffer zones. He is seemingly isolated in this position, but cannot be acting alone. As nearly as I can figure it out it is the re-emergence of the faction which always governed before the takeover by Bus Sr & his neocons & CIA. So the previous in-control faction was the Rockefeller/CFR group w the anglophiles. Naturally there are some more prudent people in the military– actual good guys.
And then there’s the “overlooking” of the Russian action in Syria. My goodness, Lavron actually announced on the day of the signing of the Iranian deal that Now the way is clear for a coalition w Iran against ISIS. US didn’t just “accidentally” overlook what was happening. I don’t believe it for a minute. T
Anyway, how else explain Obama’s undermining of neocon policy while wearing the protective cammo of neocon rhetoric?
Oh well, can’t blame everybody for preferring the more heroic story of Russian defiance. Wish I believed it.
Penelope:
I too have been reading Thierry Meyssan and he does have some persuasive arguments. I am not well enough informed to be able to formulate my own hypothesis. So, I am as puzzled an “Obama watcher” as many others. I do not rule out teh possibility that that things are are you outline.
JFK was trying to reach a modus operandi with Russia/Kruscchev/the rest of the noncapitalist world when he was rubbed out. In other words, he was isolated. I have written a few comments in this direction on this blog. My principal source on that is James Douglass’s JFK and the Unspeakable It is now establsihed beyond doubt that JFK had looked into the abyss after the missile crisis, looked at Caroline playing in the Rose Garden, and said; We gotta stop this madness! He opened back channels to both Castro and Krushchev. Krushchev, simlilarly, was isolated and these communiques had to be undertaken VERY circumspectly, in secret from own military and intelligence services (a book has just appeared on this subject, i.e., this is now established in the conventional world,although the interpretations differ).
Personally, i don’t think Obama had or has any kind of vision for this country. He was stage-managed and borrowed his oratorical style from real black preachers. To me he comes across as juvenile and cold. He has daughters. He might be really scared of the direction in which things are drifting. At the same time I am disgusted by the button-pushing drone warfare that he is personally engaging in and he must know that the wedding parties are attended by girls just like his daughters. So, I personally am not really inclined to give a lot of credence to the “Obama and Putin are secretly working tog ether for the good of the world” view. But, hey, I’m no expert. I am not betting anything on what the Essence of Obama is.
As a lame duck seems to me he could go out on a limb and take some stands and sh ow some leadership. Especially diplomatic leadership. As the head of the executive branch of government he has enormous power, but he seems to have missed that civics class and has never appeared to understand how to wield that power. Like, he could have shut down Guantanomo, just for starters. .He is also the supreme military commander. Of course, the first big mistake he made, as you point out, was to fail to create a loyal cabinet around himself and his Kitchen cabinet—Oy vey. You cannot stand alone against the various forces of the Deep State, whatever they may be (I reckon that the Deep State is a protean shape shifter, depending on what the stakes are at any one time; and the clash of the vulcans surely is also carried out at the Deep State level).
Bottom line: Obama, you are no JFK.
Rand Paul, the new Speaker of the House, has come out with a statement against greater US military involvement in Syria: “We Must Oppose Obama’s Military Escalation in Syria and Iraq!”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43276.htm
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Ron Paul, it can only feel like good news to me that a national-level politician is openly countering the AShton Carter huffing and puffing. Even if Paul’s reasons are not completely congruent with “ours.”
Katherine
@Katherine and Penelope,
An article by William Engdahl referencing the ‘deep state’ . It is essentially a mafia-enforcement operation, the mafia being the Anglo-Atlantic ‘robber barons’ who once plundered continents openly, now covertly.
What is genuinely disturbing is the depths of depravity they sink to in their pursuance of objectives:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article178623.html
Very interesting Sybil Edmonds mention in teh Engdahl piece.
(Engdahl is an odd quanty IMO. He is clearly very smart and can put 2 & 2 togetehr. But I don’t know what to make of his signing on to theory that oil is continually produced wtihin the earth and pushed closer to the surface where it “refills” oil seams. But that is OT.)
One of the cases that Edmonds considers pivotal is the many-layered corruption case against Dennis Hastert—which keeps going nowhere faster and faster, because it implicates a whole lot of higher-ups.
Hastert is the former speaker of the House who is from, wait for it, Illinois.
You can see the video about it here:
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2015/10/19/the-peoples-campaign-the-real-hastert-case-all-in-one-place/
Scroll down to “The Hastert Scandal: What the Media Isn’t Telling You.” There is a video there.
Two points that I find particularly curious:
1. Hastert’s connections to Turkey
2. Hastert’s Illinois base. A whole bunch of Illinois pols are implicated in repugnant and very illegal shenanigans that are a blackmailer’s wet dream. Including Barack Obama. He came up politically through this mire and I very much doubt that he is untouched by the political filth around him. In fact, Ronald Tice says as much. So, seems to me there are quite a few dots to connect here.
Katherine
Katherine,
Perhaps when the curtains finally part, we will discover the plutocracy is essentially a pedocracy.
Salam Sister Katherine,
To quote Wikipedia about Dennis Hastert:
“Hastert rose through the Republican ranks in the House, becoming chief deputy whip and eventually Speaker in 1999.
As Speaker of the House, Hastert supported the George W. Bush administration’s foreign and domestic policies. After Democrats took control of the House in 2007 following the 2006 election, Hastert chose not to seek the position of minority leader, resigned his House seat, and became a lobbyist at the firm of Dickstein Shapiro.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Hastert
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Checkmate on ‘The Devil’s Chessboard’
Since the end of World War II, what some call the “deep state” has taken hold of the American Republic, stripping the citizens of meaningful control over national security issues, with CIA Director Allen Dulles playing a key early role, according to David Talbot’s new biography reviewed by Lisa Pease.
David Talbot’s new book The Devil’s Chessboard is an anecdotal biography of not just Allen Dulles but of the national security establishment that he helped create. Talbot gave himself the monumental task of summing up a 25-year slice of important history.
Talbot writes about the ratlines (escape routes from Europe to Latin America for Nazis), but in the context of one particularly Machiavellian character. He writes about Lee Harvey Oswald from the point of view of one of his friends who sold him down the river to the Warren Commission, likely at the behest of the CIA, a friend who later ostensibly committed suicide just as a member of the House Select Committee on Assassinations was about to interview him. Talbot talks about the CIA’s mind-control programs in the context of Allen Dulles submitting his own son to those horrors.
Launching the Cold War
During the Nuremberg trials, again, Dulles took the side opposite of what FDR had wanted, the meting out of stern justice for such egregious crimes. Where Roosevelt and other Allied leaders saw war criminals, Dulles saw potential spies to be rescued.
Talbot devotes several chapters to Dulles’s cooperation with and protection of the Nazis. One chapter is devoted to Dulles’s bringing the “Gehlen organization” into the fold of U.S. intelligence, with dubious results.
Talbot makes a compelling argument that a lot of the abuses of the intelligence apparatus that we are dealing with now had their genesis under Allen Dulles’s version of the CIA. He traces the notion that the CIA is “above the law” and unanswerable to oversight to the McCarthy hearings, where Dulles earned the undying loyalty of the CIA by refusing to turn over Sen. Joe McCarthy’s targets for questioning.
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/10/27/checkmate-on-the-devils-chessboard/
mmiriww (mystery handle, that!):
You beat me to it! I was about to post a link to a review of this book from ICH.
Here is that review, by someone named Dr. Edward Curtin (I don’t know who he is):
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43285.htm.
The review is long, but is, itself, a must-read.
Curtin states: “The Paines are very important figures in the assassination and seeing them clearly would add to his powerful thesis.” They (and their CIA connections) are discussed in much more detail in “JFK and the Unspeakable.”
We can’t really talk about the Deep State without talking about the JFK assassination. The run-up. JFK knew what he was up against, that his life was in danger. He tried to save the republic from the Dulles cabal.
The Deep State, Secret Government—whatever you want to call it, it exists.
Katherine
I though boosh was cia director when JFK was assassinated. I know Dulles was on the commission and he was one of the biggest criminals so putting him in charge of the investigation is like the fox investigating who ate the chickens. And as we saw in 911.. No matter how impossible and improbable things are, they will say that’s how it is and the tin foil hats are not being patriotic.
I also saw that the boosh’s records were purged from everywhere by his son’s presidential order.. So we will never even know about what was behind it all. Aint it nice to have the power to wipe history from the pages..
Katherine, I don’t think Obama’s a JFK or is considering the good of the world either. I think he’s the point man of a faction which wishes to pursue the same global oligarchy, but by quieter means that don’t awaken the masses. When the previous faction was in power the primary means was the usurpation of the sovereignty of nations thru supranational institutions like IMF, WTO, World Bank and NAFTA, TTIP., etc Under the Fed/IMF system most countries cannot create their own money & credit (including Russia), and so have to borrow at interest.
Re: Guantanamo. I think there is a missing piece that we don’t know, there. But certainly he’s done many other bad things. Both factions want to destroy our liberty within the US. I only point out this business of the factions cuz it can help us to understand and to predict events. And perhaps to encourage us all to look away occasionally from the aggressive acts towards the monetary, trade & economic structures which make up the architecture of the global oligarchy.
I didn’t know about Rand Paul, thank you. There is also a Senate Armed Services Cmte member. Her name is Tulsi Garrard. There’s a video interview of her on cnn above at Wm Rood’s comment. People who show great deference towards some others feel secretly humiliated and therefore lash out w hostility. Anyway it’s certainly interesting & baffling times we live in.
Penelope
These comments do not seem to align with the “Obama and Putin are working together” meme.
“I think he’s the point man of a faction which wishes to pursue the same global oligarchy, but by quieter means that don’t awaken the masses.”
I guess that may mean by financial, not military, means.
But I don’t think he has the cojones nor leadership abilities to be a point man. Maybe more like a figurehead. Always a cypher.
Article by Mike Whitney supports idea that Obama is treading water until he can get out there , without starting WWIII.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article43281.htm
And i would add, maybe in one piece himself. He likes the celebrity and the golfing and the ego rush, not the job. When it comes to the job, he really isn’t much better than the Shrub. He has zero skills at handling Congress (probably never figured out that it was part of the job; don’t you just stand there as THe President and announce your wishes??) and no one on Capitol Hill seems to give a FF what he thinks or does.
Katherine
I agree with you there.I think the worst thing he has done is waste his 2nd term.As a lame-duck he could do exactly as you say.Not to defend him in any way (he was a horrible disappointment).I think the answer to why he hasn’t done anything is two-fold.One his “legacy” is controlled by his party.If he tries massive changes and fails his legacy would be classed as worse than it is now.And he is afraid to chance it.And second (somewhat tied to the first),he wants (needs) to be followed by another Democrat as President.And you can bet the Democrat leadership is begging (forcing) him to not do anything to screw that up on his end.So I don’t expect him to do much during this next year to help anything.I’m just hoping he doesn’t do anything to hurt either.
Penelope,
Your contention that the “Anglophiles” are part of the non-interventionist groups allied with Obama belies some publicly known facts (points 1-3)
1) French foreign minister Dumas exposed that it was the British and French, working in London, that were plotting the destruction of the Assad govt 2 years before the 1st protest in Damascus.
2) Bill & Hillary Clinton belong to Anglophile branch (Wilsonian) of the Democrat party, that is well documented. Hillary is, accord your own words, pushing for an attack on Syria
3) pig-o-phile Cameron (google it) has tried repeated to initiate an attack on Syria, including bypassing parliament by ordering a drone strike in Syria. It was fact that Russia openly confronted the US Fleet in Mediterranean that gave British MPs cold feet in authorizing an attack (despite British bombast, they fully understand just what Russia can and will do to their now impotent little island should things go out of control).
4) This point, like your post is a theory:
The American faction that against support of ISIS are known as the patriot faction of the American Power Structure (I.e. Americans that don’t have divided loyalties to non-American nations but only to their US homeland, this precludes the Anglophiles and their loyalty to the Brit elite); primarily, but not limited to, the US military (such DIA director Flynn who leaked the ISIS creation memo to the media, Reb Gabbard, and other examples provided by other posters here, like William Rood) DIA = Defense Intelligence Agency
Yes, I agree, Anonymous, there are a great many actual patriots who don’t desire a global oligarchy, by whatever strategy used as a means.
By Anglophile, I didn’t mean all Englishmen or even all English in the power structure. Hillary is a neocon thru & thru, closely linked during her Secy of State tenure w Petraeus, Gen Allen & other neocons. The rhetoric in her case is sincere. In Obama’s it’s more protective coloration, to conceal his actions in undermining important bits of the Bush/neocon/CIA foreign policy of sheer aggression. Those who preceeded Bush Sr also used military force, but not so continuously & blatantly.
Yes, I know about Francois Dumas having been told at a party in London that it was planned to take Syria down. The first that I know of the more prudent faction beginning to take real exception to the actions of the more reckless faction is that already in 2012 Obama was trying to make peace in Syria & was undermined. Although I somehow think they must have felt real consternation at 9-11.
The first public sign of factional in-fighting of which I was aware was the editorial by the bigwig of the CFR telling Obama publicly that he ought to get rid of his White House advisors & hire some of these named people instead– then he named an equal number of Republicans & Dems. He also said Obama should meet regularly w certain wise men like Kissinger, etc. Unprecedented.
I don’t think I’m explaining this very well. It is of course obvious to you that the US has pursued a more obviously murderous path since the breakup of the USSR– and even one step more so since 9-11. This is dangerous to The Plan. They are winning. They don’t need to practice brinkmanship. The difference in recommended approach is like the difference between Greece (without a single bullet they have all the assets, plus tribute for years & Years) and Syria.
I believe with Thierry Meyssan and a couple others that the policy of widespread chaos is finished and that a new mid eastern order is being engineered. Te old school that is trying to take the power back wants to concentrate on Russia & China.
Sorry Penelope,
But now its starting to look like that authors of the material you’re reading are trying to make the facts fit their theory, specifically:
Yes, I know about Francois Dumas having been told at a party in London that it was planned to take Syria down.
That is not correct, I speak French fluently, I listened to Dumas’ comment in the raw: he was urged to join the effort to destabilize Syria (with an implied offer of benefits), to which he declined citing his loyalty to France and its interests. He described the anti-Syrian efforts and planning, being conducted in London, as large-scale & considerable in scope. It was glaring that their was no mention of American involvement (at the time).
Regarding the term Anglophiles: with respect to discussions on the US power structure, Anglophile has a very a specific meaning like the term Atlanticist in the Russian political context. The origins of this group of unAmerican treasonous slime can be traced back to President Woodrow (Woodhead) Wilson, a fool (by his own admission in his memoirs), that due to his admiration of and cultivation by the British elite, was duped into believing in and supporting a Transatlantic Anglo-Saxon power elite. It is this group that fully brought the Federal Reserve system into the united states, they are tied in hand in glove with the Rothschild and other European banking elite.
The Clinton’s are on record thru their own public statements (and from the company they kept) of belonging to the Wilsonian branch of the Democratic party. However, given the crass, lowlife and opportunistic character of the Clinton’s even their adherence and loyalty to the Transatlantic AngloSaxon structure is nominal at best. By the same token, their support of Neocon causes is pure political opportunism and not sincere: the Clinton’s loyalty can purchase for money. If the money and political support were to stop, Hitlery & Bill would flip-flop on Neocon causes virtually overnight.
I read other posts by you, some of them are very valuable. Therefore, this is not personal critique of a fellow traveller, who, like me, and others here, are trying to get at a semblance of the truth.
Can I suggest you obtain copies “Tragedy and Hope” and “The Anglo-American Establishment: From Rhodes to Cliveden” by Carroll Quigley,
Professor at George Town University and one of Bill Clinton’s personal mentors (Bill Clinton was one of his best students).
Very encouraging that Jatras, a former advisor to US Senate Republican leadership, would have his head screwed on so straight. Now, if they would just rehire him and make him a former former advisor.
Mary’s commentary starting around 15:40 is spot on. The person of Assad is actually irrelevant, both to Russia and the US. His only importance is that he is currently the only politician who can hold Syria together. The goal is the destruction of the Syrian state, and Assad stands in the way. That’s why the US, Saudi Arabia and Turkey say he must go immediately, and that’s why Russia says he must stay at least in the interim. The former want to destroy the Syrian state; the latter wants to preserve it.
Right. She makes that point in very clear language (it has been made, but not quite so clearly).
I think Putin has also made the point—a corollary, so to speak—that he championsnot only Assad, not only the Syrian state, but he and Russia champion the concept of the state, and state sovereignty. This last is what the Empire seems to be bent on violating and ultimately destroying. Putin has rightly pointed out (I think in the UNGA speech) that the international system of law relies on the existence of sovereign states.
Katherine
William the point that “the person of Assad is irrelevant” is not something i believ to be correct.
Having lived in the region, I can tell you that Assad and his family are the ones who have skillfully held that country together: Assad, being more forward looking than his father, was building institutions where this would become part of the system and not require a single alliance of clans or personality to keep the secular multi-ethnic multi religious setup of Syria intact. The war destroyed this along with other modernization efforts on Assad’s part.
There’s another point, Putin cannot reward the criminals that want Assad gone: Putin has made it clear that he expects respect for International law, and non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries. This is an issue of principle for Putin (because it affects Russia directly), particularly after what happened to mommar Qaddafi. For just that reason alone Assad has to stay, to drive that point home. It is precisely the “regime-change” or alleged “human-rights abusing” leader removal excuse/wedge that the Anglo-Atlantic mafia uses to invade and pillage key countries. According to Putin this has to be knipped in bud: China and India agree (5 principles/Pancheel doctrine).
Remember Mary works for the Guardian and is somewhat more cunning in towing the Western narrative; a little bit over year back Saker described her in accurate but unflattering terms when she was soft-pedaling the pro-Kiev MSM lies on Ukraine:
I agreed with Sakers opinion of her at that time and don’t take too much stock in her apparent ‘reasonableness’ (She’s an adept of the “agree and slime” method).
Thanks, Espelho, for your information re the Assad family.
So much to learn.
Re “Assad, being more forward looking than his father, was building institutions where this would become part of the system and not require a single alliance of clans or personality to keep the secular multi-ethnic multi religious setup of Syria intact.”
Isn’t that also the “classical” process of nation building?
Isn’t that partly what Napoleon did for France? Bismarck for Germany?
Katherine
It is most soothing (and wishful) to hear how the Russian move in Syria marks no lees than a watershed in the world politics of the last quarter century. And yes, it does look that way.
However, do consider the sobering thought put forward by Alexander Mercouris in the preceding CrossTalk ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zab-V6Gui18 , from 1:54):
(quote)…the great risk, the very big risk, is that people in Washington, who are not happy with the situation at all, are going to find or look for ways to escalate the conflict, in order to make what Russians are trying to do in Syria fail…(unquote)
The AngloZionist Empire is not about to go down without a desperate fight – and an assuredly dirty one, no-holds-barred. The outcome is anyone’s guess…
Ask yourself…
What if Russia had fought the war in Afganistan with the support of China and Iran?
And it was funded largely by sales of energy to Europe?
We might not get the result we wanted as quickly as we wanted but eventually, we will get it.
The Empire will collapse long before Russia or Syria ever does.
Katherine and Eimar,
Regarding the Deep State listen to a few videos of Peter Dale Scott. Continuity of Govt is a very important theme. Secret laws. Did you know that we have been living under a legally passed State of Emergency, which has sevral important ramifications? Periodically it comes up for renewal. By law Congress must review it at that time, but each time the President simply renews it & no one mentions it.
There have been quite a few false flag events which blame a sole gunman for mass killings. These are of course to deprive the American people of weapons; why is that so important to them? In addition, there have been just recently a spate of hoaxes– where no one is killed: Sandy Hook, Boston Marathon, probably Charlie, There was one in Canada and another in Australia. Maybe that one in Britain where they “killed” a member of the military or police, then stood around waiting for the police to arrive. The Hoax Events are a rehearsal. They look at the coverage, at how people respond to it. Possibly they want to find out how to extend the limits of what people will accept if its presented more persuasively.
Although the power structure relies heavily on supranational institutions it also relies on ideology to inspire those who work for the world which they are creating and which requires the wiping out of the civilization which we know. And you are right Eimar, pedophilia is often a part of it. It serves at least a few purposes: to pervert an important seat of pleasure; to confirm one in the belief that he is exceptional and can break the rules that lesser people cannot; to willingly supply a weapon for blackmail as proof of loyalty to the group; and as part of group-bonding rituals.
Above all is the belief that one must accept no limits in pursuit of the plan– deceit, murder, torture– all are virtues if they help to gain the group’s goal.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/category/sinistersites/ Look at the Denver Airport & at Rockefeller Ctr.
The go-to site on the Boston Marathon and also the workings of the Deep State is Russ Baker’s WhoWhatWhy. org. Baker is the author of Family of Secrets. He also has at his site excerpts from Talbot’s The Devil’s Chessboard, on the attempts on De Gaulle’s life orchestrated by Dulles & Co..
Bitte schoen!
Katherine