This show had interesting topics but apart from Dmitry Babch the panel was poor.
Mark sleboda is just too loud and bombastic – very american in his views. Every thing has to be responded to with force
Edward lowansky is just an foolish Russian liberal who still believes in the west.
It was unwatchable
Mark may be as you say. But,he is the most “realist” person they have on. Peter and Dima are tied for second,and Ed (who I like as a person) is in third place. Not seeing (and speaking ) the ugly truth,is the same to me as the ostrich hiding its head in the sand. It doesn’t make the truth,untrue. It just means a person doesn’t see problems in time to do something about them.Russia pretending they didn’t see what was happening with NATO,and certainly about the situation in Ukraine. Didn’t make those problems go away.It only made the current situation worse.Some might ask “what could Russia have done about the NATO expansion”.And frankly I don’t know for certain.I think she should have at least tried to prevent it more. And seen it for what it was,”the handwriting on the wall” leading to a possible World War. As for Ukraine that is a different matter. Encouraging pro-Russian groups in Ukraine should have been a major priority for Russia. And organizing pro-Russian elements in the Southeast, another priority during the last 23 years. When the coup happened there were several months of lost time before pro-Russians in the Southeast were able to organize any resistance to the fascists. Its as if they were caught totally by surprise and had no adequate plan of action prepared (and it seems that way,because it was that way).Had they been organized before hand they night have been able to stop the coup before it even got started. Saving Crimea,is one thing (a very important thing,no doubt). But that is only a small area of a huge region. A region with millions of Russians,and Russian speakers. An area that has been associated with Russia ethnically and culturally since the beginnings of a “Russian state”. And that borders on the heartland of European Russia. With millions of cross-border family ties. Of any Republic of the ex-USSR,Ukraine was the most important for Russia to have influence with. And yet,little was done to secure that influence. And today,Russia and pro-Russian Ukrainians are suffering because of that neglect. The head needs to be pulled from the sand,never to go back in. Russia and Russians need to understand the seriousness of today’s situation. And only realism can make that understood.
Not sure I’d say “largest”. But certainly at times they fail to understand the way their enemies will behave. And think they are rational players,as they are. It is much better I believe to hope for the best,but prepare for the worst when dealing with those that hate you.
I love Dmitry, but [for the millionth time: in my opinion] he really should look into cutting down on his historical references, not everything that happened in the past informs the future/present, often it does but not every single time FFS!
Someone has to inform him about how newer generations operate, what they care about, how their psyche works, what their interests are… and I can guarantee him, 9 out 10 times, their eyes glaze over when someone starts to mention anything that happened a 100 years ago, let alone further back than that.
In the minds of Russian young audiences, is not because they don’t know their history, it’s because from their point of view, that was then, now, is well… now! Mention the ‘Cold War’ to any Russian under 30 or even worse under 25 and they will loose the will to live before you even finished your point.
This is what young Russians seem to be into, according to an RT documentary airing right now:
^ Now, I’m not saying young Russians, or young adults anywhere in general are all like that (not that there’s anything with wrong with letting your hair down once in while, btw)… but, psychologically speaking, youngsters naturally seek to detach themselves from their parents [+ their parents’ generation], and the past that came before them in general.
That’s how they grow their own identity, their own sense of self. It’s a natural mile-stone into adulthood youngsters go through most civilizations try to suppress.
So, where am I going with this? It’s ok, highly advisable even, for older people to teach newer generations what happened before they were born (that’s what history lessons in school are for, presumably (?) ) but quite another is to keep going back to them all the time, and then drawing similarities between then and now, even when these so-called similarities are so far fetched that the joining points are faint to say the least.
The intelligent short-cut to convey your message efficiently is to give young generations explanations about what’s happening NOW, with things that are either a) relatable to them [ ideally, btw] or give them b) examples/references fairly recent in time. Namely: anything that happened AFTER WWII or even closer in time, depending on the age of the listener.
As someone said; there are no bad students only bad teachers. This is the same principle.
Let me give you a few “wild” examples: Nowadays we have to deal with things like: the NSA/GCHQ spying on everybody, the Five Eyes, Nato, the so-called smart bombs, extra judiciary phone-hackings, EMP weapons, Armed Drones flying all over the place, those lovely Terminator-like robot soldiers that are supposed to be available just a few years ahead of us…
….and we’re supposed to be drawing lines between today and whatever happened in the Cold War? Seriously?!?
These people are supposed to be communicators – Dmitry, Peter (etc) – hence; they work in the media, their main job is to communicate and make their message as concise and approachable to as many folks as possible. But let’s not forget! Young adults are the ones destined to inherit the reins of this lonely blue planet. They, above all, need to understand what’s going on, in order for them to make informed decisions in the future.
This is why we need, bombastic people (as you out it) as Mark Sleboda (btw, what you call “bombastic” I call passionate – potato potahto)
He is the kind of breed who turns young people’s heads and make them sit and listen. A crusty “scholar,” old-timer mumbling barely comprehensible phrases about the USSR, Cold War, the Crimean War or whatever… just turn them-off and will have people reaching for the remote. Quite frankly.
To close; maybe because Trump delivery style is so “loud and bombastic” is that people is paying attention to him.
And I’m speaking for myself here; I want people who say things as they see it and to hell with the consequences! If they’re loud, obnoxious, bombastic or not, is not my primary concern. Mr. Lavrov is a prime example of someone who can deliver pretty harsh stingers without raising his voice, nor losing his immaculate composure. But it doesn’t make his main message any less powerful.
It is up to me [or the audience in general] to decide, if I agree/support the message or not, how that message is delivered is of no relevance whatsoever, so long it’s delivered.
“that’s what history lessons in school are for, presumably (?)”
Exactly! Which is why it is so important to control the educational system and media in a country. Our enemies are quite well aware of that. Which is why in Ukraine for 23 years the fascist nationalists worked (with Western funds aiding them) to subvert the educational system and gain control of the media there. And why today they are even “doubling down” on those efforts. Its somewhat the same throughout the World on their part. If they can control what the young are taught. And what the popular media shows to people. They can shape the thinking of the future generations of young people.We have done a horrible job of fighting that plot. So that now the young have no idea what we are talking about, when we bring up points of historical reference. And as you say are turned off by them. We need to realize that if we “lose” the young,we lose the future. And great effort needs to be made to prevent and reverse that from happening.Before its too late to stop it.
Many times I see a disdainful,elitist sneer,from people on our side about “Hollywood” movies,US music, TV “celebrity culture” ,and Madison Avenue style advertising. We are right to disdain it,its mostly trash. But we are wrong to overlook it. Its extremely effective on the young. Which is exactly why it is used. Almost everything viewed from the West by average people Worldwide ,is viewed through the prism of at least one of those things.The US learned a long time ago that people will “buy” propaganda if it comes in an exciting ,dazzling,box.As a small example,I remember the first Western Rock Concerts put on in the last years of the USSR.The crowds of young people were “enormous” and the “frenzy” of the events almost unbelievable.Its not a “coincidence” that during Obama’s visit to Cuba the Rolling Stones put on a “free” concert in Habana packed with Cuba’s young people. The enemy knows,from years of experience, how to subvert the young to their way of thinking. Usually,after the deed is done, some of the young awake from the “dream”. But by then ,in most cases its too late to do anything about it.The country is already a Western stooge,with their political and corporate elite firmly under control.
For well over a century, Carlo Collodi’s edifying story of Pinocchio (Le avventure di Pinocchio, 1883) has held a great appeal among children all across Europe and world beyond.
What you accurately describe above could equally have been taken from pages of chapters 30-33 of that book…
The deceptive “Americanised” West beckons with its glittering false values. And grown people respond exactly like those kids lured into the Land of Toys (Paese dei balocchi) … imagining to be “enjoying” themselves … until a much too rude awakening.
HELSINKI, Finland — Seeking to shine some light into the dark world of Internet trolls, a journalist with Finland’s national broadcaster asked members of her audience to share their experience of encounters with Russia’s “troll army,” a raucous and often venomous force of online agitators.
The response was overwhelming, though not in the direction that the journalist, Jessikka Aro, had hoped.
As she expected, she received some feedback from people who had clashed with aggressively pro-Russian voices online. But she was taken aback, and shaken, by a vicious retaliatory campaign of harassment and insults against her and her work by those same pro-Russian voices.
“Everything in my life went to hell thanks to the trolls,” said Ms. Aro, 35, an investigative reporter with the social media division of Finland’s state broadcaster, Yle Kioski…………
Not directly related, oh, it is! While we here are talking about Russia’s future and Russia’s youth’s western interests, MustWatch: This (no fake) is the latetst official advertisement for Berlin’s metropolitan Subway/Bus/Tram operator:
(It popped up via GoogleAds while reading ZeroHedge, the googling for exactly this of many similar images brought me to a gay propaganda site, but the Ads ere genuine) :
For years I not in my worst imaginations could have imagined, that Ukraine is braindead enough to believe into the EU like into a God. But then … 2004 and 2014 happened.
This is a warning (for its larger brother).
Nothing is impossible. The Z-ombification is unstoppable.
But sadly nobody of the EverythingIsFineInRussia fraction found it even only necessary to at least attempt to explain it let alone to promise a solution. This includes this blog’s owner and his leading scientist. And I took it personally that he/they ignore(s) such things. Well – life can be wonderful, one only needs the right pills or purple glasses. Or maybe Christianity or other drugs.
I admire Uncle Bob for his brilliant statements.
Could not agree more:
“””””Not seeing (and speaking ) the ugly truth,is the same to me as the ostrich hiding its head in the sand. It doesn’t make the truth,untrue. It just means a person doesn’t see problems in time to do something about them.Russia pretending they didn’t see what was happening with NATO,and certainly about the situation in Ukraine. Didn’t make those problems go away.It only made the current situation worse.Some might ask “what could Russia have done about the NATO expansion”.And frankly I don’t know for certain.I think she should have at least tried to prevent it more. And seen it for what it was,”the handwriting on the wall” leading to a possible World War. As for Ukraine that is a different matter. Encouraging pro-Russian groups in Ukraine should have been a major priority for Russia. And organizing pro-Russian elements in the Southeast, another priority during the last 23 years. When the coup happened there were several months of lost time before pro-Russians in the Southeast were able to organize any resistance to the fascists. Its as if they were caught totally by surprise and had no adequate plan of action prepared (and it seems that way,because it was that way).Had they been organized before hand they night have been able to stop the coup before it even got started. Saving Crimea,is one thing (a very important thing,no doubt). But that is only a small area of a huge region. A region with millions of Russians,and Russian speakers. An area that has been associated with Russia ethnically and culturally since the beginnings of a “Russian state”. And that borders on the heartland of European Russia. With millions of cross-border family ties. Of any Republic of the ex-USSR,Ukraine was the most important for Russia to have influence with. And yet,little was done to secure that influence. And today,Russia and pro-Russian Ukrainians are suffering because of that neglect. The head needs to be pulled from the sand,never to go back in. Russia and Russians need to understand the seriousness of today’s situation. And only realism can make that understood”””””
Meanwhile certain people gave me final proof repeatedly to be more and more disappointed.
Not because I’m an enemy of Russia, but probably because I’m closer to Russia with my heart than they themselves are.
This show had interesting topics but apart from Dmitry Babch the panel was poor.
Mark sleboda is just too loud and bombastic – very american in his views. Every thing has to be responded to with force
Edward lowansky is just an foolish Russian liberal who still believes in the west.
It was unwatchable
Mark sleboda is a hero! (only way too moderate and too soft and forgiving)
Mark may be as you say. But,he is the most “realist” person they have on. Peter and Dima are tied for second,and Ed (who I like as a person) is in third place. Not seeing (and speaking ) the ugly truth,is the same to me as the ostrich hiding its head in the sand. It doesn’t make the truth,untrue. It just means a person doesn’t see problems in time to do something about them.Russia pretending they didn’t see what was happening with NATO,and certainly about the situation in Ukraine. Didn’t make those problems go away.It only made the current situation worse.Some might ask “what could Russia have done about the NATO expansion”.And frankly I don’t know for certain.I think she should have at least tried to prevent it more. And seen it for what it was,”the handwriting on the wall” leading to a possible World War. As for Ukraine that is a different matter. Encouraging pro-Russian groups in Ukraine should have been a major priority for Russia. And organizing pro-Russian elements in the Southeast, another priority during the last 23 years. When the coup happened there were several months of lost time before pro-Russians in the Southeast were able to organize any resistance to the fascists. Its as if they were caught totally by surprise and had no adequate plan of action prepared (and it seems that way,because it was that way).Had they been organized before hand they night have been able to stop the coup before it even got started. Saving Crimea,is one thing (a very important thing,no doubt). But that is only a small area of a huge region. A region with millions of Russians,and Russian speakers. An area that has been associated with Russia ethnically and culturally since the beginnings of a “Russian state”. And that borders on the heartland of European Russia. With millions of cross-border family ties. Of any Republic of the ex-USSR,Ukraine was the most important for Russia to have influence with. And yet,little was done to secure that influence. And today,Russia and pro-Russian Ukrainians are suffering because of that neglect. The head needs to be pulled from the sand,never to go back in. Russia and Russians need to understand the seriousness of today’s situation. And only realism can make that understood.
> And organizing pro-Russian elements in the Southeast, another priority during the last 23 years.
Russia’s largest enemy is Russia.
Not sure I’d say “largest”. But certainly at times they fail to understand the way their enemies will behave. And think they are rational players,as they are. It is much better I believe to hope for the best,but prepare for the worst when dealing with those that hate you.
@ James:
I love Dmitry, but [for the millionth time: in my opinion] he really should look into cutting down on his historical references, not everything that happened in the past informs the future/present, often it does but not every single time FFS!
Someone has to inform him about how newer generations operate, what they care about, how their psyche works, what their interests are… and I can guarantee him, 9 out 10 times, their eyes glaze over when someone starts to mention anything that happened a 100 years ago, let alone further back than that.
In the minds of Russian young audiences, is not because they don’t know their history, it’s because from their point of view, that was then, now, is well… now! Mention the ‘Cold War’ to any Russian under 30 or even worse under 25 and they will loose the will to live before you even finished your point.
This is what young Russians seem to be into, according to an RT documentary airing right now:
My crazy Russian vlog
https://www.rt.com/shows/documentary/344365-bikini-russia-festivals-fun/
–
^ Now, I’m not saying young Russians, or young adults anywhere in general are all like that (not that there’s anything with wrong with letting your hair down once in while, btw)… but, psychologically speaking, youngsters naturally seek to detach themselves from their parents [+ their parents’ generation], and the past that came before them in general.
That’s how they grow their own identity, their own sense of self. It’s a natural mile-stone into adulthood youngsters go through most civilizations try to suppress.
So, where am I going with this? It’s ok, highly advisable even, for older people to teach newer generations what happened before they were born (that’s what history lessons in school are for, presumably (?) ) but quite another is to keep going back to them all the time, and then drawing similarities between then and now, even when these so-called similarities are so far fetched that the joining points are faint to say the least.
The intelligent short-cut to convey your message efficiently is to give young generations explanations about what’s happening NOW, with things that are either a) relatable to them [ ideally, btw] or give them b) examples/references fairly recent in time. Namely: anything that happened AFTER WWII or even closer in time, depending on the age of the listener.
As someone said; there are no bad students only bad teachers. This is the same principle.
Let me give you a few “wild” examples: Nowadays we have to deal with things like: the NSA/GCHQ spying on everybody, the Five Eyes, Nato, the so-called smart bombs, extra judiciary phone-hackings, EMP weapons, Armed Drones flying all over the place, those lovely Terminator-like robot soldiers that are supposed to be available just a few years ahead of us…
….and we’re supposed to be drawing lines between today and whatever happened in the Cold War? Seriously?!?
These people are supposed to be communicators – Dmitry, Peter (etc) – hence; they work in the media, their main job is to communicate and make their message as concise and approachable to as many folks as possible. But let’s not forget! Young adults are the ones destined to inherit the reins of this lonely blue planet. They, above all, need to understand what’s going on, in order for them to make informed decisions in the future.
This is why we need, bombastic people (as you out it) as Mark Sleboda (btw, what you call “bombastic” I call passionate – potato potahto)
He is the kind of breed who turns young people’s heads and make them sit and listen. A crusty “scholar,” old-timer mumbling barely comprehensible phrases about the USSR, Cold War, the Crimean War or whatever… just turn them-off and will have people reaching for the remote. Quite frankly.
To close; maybe because Trump delivery style is so “loud and bombastic” is that people is paying attention to him.
And I’m speaking for myself here; I want people who say things as they see it and to hell with the consequences! If they’re loud, obnoxious, bombastic or not, is not my primary concern. Mr. Lavrov is a prime example of someone who can deliver pretty harsh stingers without raising his voice, nor losing his immaculate composure. But it doesn’t make his main message any less powerful.
It is up to me [or the audience in general] to decide, if I agree/support the message or not, how that message is delivered is of no relevance whatsoever, so long it’s delivered.
-TL2Q
“that’s what history lessons in school are for, presumably (?)”
Exactly! Which is why it is so important to control the educational system and media in a country. Our enemies are quite well aware of that. Which is why in Ukraine for 23 years the fascist nationalists worked (with Western funds aiding them) to subvert the educational system and gain control of the media there. And why today they are even “doubling down” on those efforts. Its somewhat the same throughout the World on their part. If they can control what the young are taught. And what the popular media shows to people. They can shape the thinking of the future generations of young people.We have done a horrible job of fighting that plot. So that now the young have no idea what we are talking about, when we bring up points of historical reference. And as you say are turned off by them. We need to realize that if we “lose” the young,we lose the future. And great effort needs to be made to prevent and reverse that from happening.Before its too late to stop it.
Many times I see a disdainful,elitist sneer,from people on our side about “Hollywood” movies,US music, TV “celebrity culture” ,and Madison Avenue style advertising. We are right to disdain it,its mostly trash. But we are wrong to overlook it. Its extremely effective on the young. Which is exactly why it is used. Almost everything viewed from the West by average people Worldwide ,is viewed through the prism of at least one of those things.The US learned a long time ago that people will “buy” propaganda if it comes in an exciting ,dazzling,box.As a small example,I remember the first Western Rock Concerts put on in the last years of the USSR.The crowds of young people were “enormous” and the “frenzy” of the events almost unbelievable.Its not a “coincidence” that during Obama’s visit to Cuba the Rolling Stones put on a “free” concert in Habana packed with Cuba’s young people. The enemy knows,from years of experience, how to subvert the young to their way of thinking. Usually,after the deed is done, some of the young awake from the “dream”. But by then ,in most cases its too late to do anything about it.The country is already a Western stooge,with their political and corporate elite firmly under control.
@ Uncle Bob 1
For well over a century, Carlo Collodi’s edifying story of Pinocchio (Le avventure di Pinocchio, 1883) has held a great appeal among children all across Europe and world beyond.
What you accurately describe above could equally have been taken from pages of chapters 30-33 of that book…
The deceptive “Americanised” West beckons with its glittering false values. And grown people respond exactly like those kids lured into the Land of Toys (Paese dei balocchi) … imagining to be “enjoying” themselves … until a much too rude awakening.
—-
English translation, Project Gutenberg: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/500 ;
Italian original, 60th edition, 1899: https://archive.org/stream/leavventuredipi00collgoog#page/n11/mode/2up
OFF TOPIC
Sorry guys
NATO propaganda at work
HELSINKI, Finland — Seeking to shine some light into the dark world of Internet trolls, a journalist with Finland’s national broadcaster asked members of her audience to share their experience of encounters with Russia’s “troll army,” a raucous and often venomous force of online agitators.
The response was overwhelming, though not in the direction that the journalist, Jessikka Aro, had hoped.
As she expected, she received some feedback from people who had clashed with aggressively pro-Russian voices online. But she was taken aback, and shaken, by a vicious retaliatory campaign of harassment and insults against her and her work by those same pro-Russian voices.
“Everything in my life went to hell thanks to the trolls,” said Ms. Aro, 35, an investigative reporter with the social media division of Finland’s state broadcaster, Yle Kioski…………
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/world/europe/russia-finland-nato-trolls.html
.
Not directly related, oh, it is! While we here are talking about Russia’s future and Russia’s youth’s western interests, MustWatch: This (no fake) is the latetst official advertisement for Berlin’s metropolitan Subway/Bus/Tram operator:
(It popped up via GoogleAds while reading ZeroHedge, the googling for exactly this of many similar images brought me to a gay propaganda site, but the Ads ere genuine) :
http://www.blu.fm/aktuell/schwule-leder-maenner-werben-fuer-bvg/
Another example, directly on BVG’s main twitter account:
https://twitter.com/BVG_Kampagne/status/726060990283022336
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChN8n3sW4AA5LSu.jpg
For years I not in my worst imaginations could have imagined, that Ukraine is braindead enough to believe into the EU like into a God. But then … 2004 and 2014 happened.
This is a warning (for its larger brother).
Nothing is impossible. The Z-ombification is unstoppable.
In terms of TooLegit2Quit I once again point to my posts in the deep diving thread: /dying-to-dive-underwater-search-for-serenity-with-worlds-top-freedivers/
But sadly nobody of the EverythingIsFineInRussia fraction found it even only necessary to at least attempt to explain it let alone to promise a solution. This includes this blog’s owner and his leading scientist. And I took it personally that he/they ignore(s) such things. Well – life can be wonderful, one only needs the right pills or purple glasses. Or maybe Christianity or other drugs.
I admire Uncle Bob for his brilliant statements.
Could not agree more:
“””””Not seeing (and speaking ) the ugly truth,is the same to me as the ostrich hiding its head in the sand. It doesn’t make the truth,untrue. It just means a person doesn’t see problems in time to do something about them.Russia pretending they didn’t see what was happening with NATO,and certainly about the situation in Ukraine. Didn’t make those problems go away.It only made the current situation worse.Some might ask “what could Russia have done about the NATO expansion”.And frankly I don’t know for certain.I think she should have at least tried to prevent it more. And seen it for what it was,”the handwriting on the wall” leading to a possible World War. As for Ukraine that is a different matter. Encouraging pro-Russian groups in Ukraine should have been a major priority for Russia. And organizing pro-Russian elements in the Southeast, another priority during the last 23 years. When the coup happened there were several months of lost time before pro-Russians in the Southeast were able to organize any resistance to the fascists. Its as if they were caught totally by surprise and had no adequate plan of action prepared (and it seems that way,because it was that way).Had they been organized before hand they night have been able to stop the coup before it even got started. Saving Crimea,is one thing (a very important thing,no doubt). But that is only a small area of a huge region. A region with millions of Russians,and Russian speakers. An area that has been associated with Russia ethnically and culturally since the beginnings of a “Russian state”. And that borders on the heartland of European Russia. With millions of cross-border family ties. Of any Republic of the ex-USSR,Ukraine was the most important for Russia to have influence with. And yet,little was done to secure that influence. And today,Russia and pro-Russian Ukrainians are suffering because of that neglect. The head needs to be pulled from the sand,never to go back in. Russia and Russians need to understand the seriousness of today’s situation. And only realism can make that understood”””””
Meanwhile certain people gave me final proof repeatedly to be more and more disappointed.
Not because I’m an enemy of Russia, but probably because I’m closer to Russia with my heart than they themselves are.
Nothing is ok.
Evidence The Titanic Was Sunk on Purpose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_d_GEy8lr0
And what does this potentially – but with increasing intensity – and rising liklihood mean for today?
[this time different video images] Civil defense – Everything is going according to plan (A very serious video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4vkvUMx2WQ