My goodness! What an argument! Best I’ve heard yet on this site. I guess that different parties have different opinions but don’t want to hear those of the others. Same in the real world we inhabit.
Peter Lavelle strikes me as, shall we say, very excitable and rather superficial. In lieu of a calm logical argument he invariably uses his position as the host of the show to crudely silence any guests who disagree with him – by simply outshouting them. This particular instalment of “CrossTalk” was certainly no exception. The Arab fellow from London, Sharif Nashashibi, nicely spoke of, among other things, a general hypocrisy among governments. For instance, he pointed out the inconsistency in applying the principle, that a military intervention is legal if it is done “by invitation” of the host government. (Thus, the U.S. would claim that its military intervention in the 1960-s in South Vietnam was “legal”, because it was done by invitation of that government – but at the same time that same U.S. would label the Russian intervention in Syria “illegal”, even though it was done also by invitation of the host country’s government. And vice-versa with Russia.) He provided a refreshing antidote to the usual complacency permeating this show and to the bizarre conduct of its host.
***well Mr Armchair Warrior, when you do better than Peter Lavelle, maybe millions will watch you instead of him – mod
I don’t bother to watch him either Mod for the same reason. I would prefer to see someone have their say as long as they are not getting off track.
I just have a look at the comments on the crosstalk articles.
The comment section at RT are full of pro-Western Russophobic trolls.They have been from the start.RT has probably the very worse moderation of any news site.That is common knowledge and talked about constantly.So if you are basing any opinions on the comment section at RT that’s a bad idea.
Yes,they are literally the worse I think I’ve seen.And after the US sites,and the Guardian,I thought I’d seen some bad ones.I believe its partly because they are “bending over backwards” to not get accused of “censorship”.That they are letting themselves become a cesspool for Russophobes.
yeah its too bad about RT comment section…although I suppose if they moderated the comments you’d end up with millions of great comments and the US would have to somehow pull the plug on RT in America. I guess the comment section is the sacrifice for RT in US
Have you noticed, Bob, that recently in the Guardian’s Comments sewer, that there has been a real outbreak of Thought Crime, attacking the Exceptionalist Empire, and even the Guardian’s hard Right bias and mendacity as well? All the Empire loyalists can manage in reply is the usual puking of the ‘Putinbot’ smear, that passes for ‘intellectual rigour’ on the Right. There are many, many, long-term Guardian readers really repulsed by its conversion into a Rightwing, Zionazi, shit-rag.
@Peter Agreed – I rarely watch “crosstalk” for exactly the same reason, but instead do read the comments on it here, one may find some useful information in those.
@ “Peter”: This Sharif idiot was the most rude MSM zombified Troll I ever had to witness on CrossTalk. I think he got way too much time to repeat western propaganda lies. And he never stopped talking, absolutely showed no respect for the moderator nor that there are other guests not him alone. He misunderstood having a CrossTalk with having Anarchy and the law of the jungle.
He can be happy that Peter Lavelle didn’t throw him out of the show and that it was in fact aired like that.
Hi Martin !! Hear Hear I agree…Peter Lavelle works so hard..every day almost he’s got another group of guests and the ones that are pro-Empire have to be ‘crushed’….
The US going into South Vietnam was “legal”.That was not the point at all.It was “immoral” to involve itself in a civil war in Vietnam,not “illegal”.And since the US see’s its involvement there as legal.They can’t then see Russia’s in Syria as “illegal”.And in support of a government that wasn’t supported by the Vietnamese population. No country gets to interpret international law strictly in favor of themselves.No matter how “exceptional” they claim to be.They may want to,true.But there will always be others to call them on it.The case of Syria is very different.The current government there is supported by the majority of the population.And its not a real civil war they are fighting.The Syrian government is fighting foreign backed terrorist gangs.Many if not most of which are not even Syrians.And whom all of them are armed,paid,and directed by foreign states.Comparing Vietnam to Syria is an “apple and oranges” comparison.This Sharif Nashashibi fellow was anything but speaking nicely.He constantly interrupted the conversation,told half-truths.And tried to use the show as a “anti-Assad soapbox”.Not to find viable answers to the war.His one and only idea was the same as the Western terror backers idea ,”Assad must go”.Russia has made it clear,that isn’t happening unless the Syrian people themselves want that.So if the West wants “any” say at all in Syria.They will need to change that “tune”,or they are going to be left totally out of the solution.
Yes, what’s happening in Syria isn’t a civil war, and I wish Russian media would cease using that term cause that reinforces the West’s propaganda. What’s happening is the second phase of an unsuccessful Color Revolution–the armed invasion from within the country using terrorism to overthrow the legitimate government of the sort that succeeded in Ukraine. The countries that have declared war on Syria are those which have provided for the armed invasion from within and maintain it. So, the Outlaw Empire and its coalition of vassals have declared war on Syria–and every other country infected by Daesh. Is that the reality Putin and Lavrov are describing in their talks with regional leaders? The second half of the operation in Iraq will also require an inventive political settlement once Daesh et al are routed. Both states require massive infusions of capital to rebuild their shattered infrastructure and economies that would be a great profile project for the New Asian Investment and BRICS Banks.
You are apparently applying the principle (A) “intervention is OK if it is by invitation of a government which enjoys the support of the population”.
Which is not at all the same principle as the principle (B) “intervention is OK if it is by invitation of a government”.
Both interventions – the U.S. one in South Vietnam and the Russian one in Syria – are equally “legal” according the principle “(B)”.
According to the principle “(A)”, however, things are more “complicated”. Intractable in fact…
(Applying “(A)” presupposes (!) knowing whether the particular government “enjoys the support of the population”. And here is where we run into trouble, as it is easy to claim but difficult to prove who does and who does not enjoy such support. Worse yet, how do you define“support of the population”? Do you mean merely a victory in an election? A victory in some systems (such as in the U.S.A.) is not by an absolute majority. And in some systems (the ones in Eastern Europe under communism for instance) everybody votes “for” the one and only government. Or, perhaps you mean a victory in a fair election? But then, how do you define “fair”?! … Can one then rely merely on “opinion polls”? Who runs these?………… And if you say that things are “obvious” … maybe … and maybe not … what so obviously is to you, may be obviously not to someone else. Etc., etc.)
Except South Vietnam never had a legitimate government. Ike killed the UN-sponsored elections that would have unified the country in 1956. There was never supposed to be a North and South Vietnam.
Again a problem: how do you define “legitimate”? “Legitimacy” obviously depends on the eyes, emotions and “vested” interests of the beholder. South and North Vietnam were as much de-facto states as were East Germany (DDR) and West Germany (BDR), or North and South Korea still are, or China (PRC) and Taiwan still are.
Well then ,either under your A or B,Russia is right to be there.The A scenario goes with my “immoral” thinking about the US role in Vietnam.But if we are “only” talking legal,B will do for Russia’s right to be in Syria.
‘South Vietnam’ was a US invention, a death-squad regime of compradores with French colonialism and the usual ‘pro-Western’ types ie mafiosi, drug-runners, brothel-keepers, big landlords etc, who the USA installed in power contrary to the Geneva Agreements of 1954, run by a Catholic fascist Diem, who was in tight with the Roman Catholic hierarchy in the USA,. The regime terrorised the rural population, running classic US death-squad operations like Operation Phoenix, and once the USA left, and the weight of US terror-bombing and chemical warfare was removed, the regime quickly collapsed, and the leading lights fled to the USA, where many moved smoothly into drug-running and other gangster activity. The hundreds of thousands who also fled are now quite free to return to their homeland to visit relatives and even open businesses etc. However the four million dead, murdered by US evil, and the poisoned land, the victim of the greatest chemical warfare in history, cannot be magically returned.
Before WWII Vietnam was a French colony. The Japanese kicked the French out and the Vietnamese worked with the US and fought the Japanese. At the end of WWII US troop ships brought in the French to reclaim their colony. The Vietnamese fought the French for independence.
They first asked the US for help and when it was refused they asked Russia.
I forget the dates and place names but peace talks were scheduled in Paris, but on or very near the due date of the peace talks, the Vietnamese wiped out the French force in Vietnam.
The French pulled out unconditionally and for a very short time Vietnam had independence.
The US then decided they were commies and so started the Vietnam / US war.
One again they were fighting for independence and the US were fighting commies.
Somebody else can no doubt tidy that history up a bit but basically from 1945 until 1975, Vietnam was fighting for independence.
Those that sided with the French then the US, basically traitors to their country, ended up coming here to Australia as boat people.
Large sections of Melbourne were inundated too. Box Hill is now has a large Vietnamese population, and there, Springvale and other shopping centres mostly have Vietnamese names.
Many come out here for education (a few have stayed with my sister) and most would love to live here afterwards.
But I am old enough to remember the Greeks, the Italians and the Turks. Eventually we seem to be able to cope.
Now we are getting Syrians… But when their countries are destroyed, what choice do they have if they want their children to have a better life?
Thanks Jack, yes of course. Drugs. And I remember when there were Vietnamese people in Canada, even on the islands…they didn’t earn themselves good reputations…they were mushroom picking – the big orange ones called Chantrels – for food and the ‘vietnamese boat people’ used to go into the forests with rakes and damage all the mushroom areas…Mushrooms come back every year in the same spot so if you rake it, you wreck it…
I was younger then, and didn’t know anything about politics except for mushroom politics.
Wars are fought over economic resources and geographic choke points.
So, China was to be contained, oil and gas possessed and the naval hegemony of the SE Asia passages from Straits of Taiwan down around through the Straits of Mallaca was a US lake, in practical terms.
The US is still trying to force itself upon the Chinese with naval power in the South China Sea.
There will be a move soon to test 12 miles limits China must defend.
It is never over ideology that war is fought. That is what the war is packaged inside.
It is hegemony, need for minerals, need for imports and need to export. Always Economics.
Read Albert Burke’s book or find his old TV shows (1959-60 era). Man was brilliant in explaining this concept.
The problem is that Sharif Nashashibi made some absurd arguments and Lavel could easily have rebutted them if he was better prepared.
Russia coming to Assad’s aid is legitimate as states always come to the aid of their allies. The UN does not have a say in the matter and it cannot over rule agreements between states.
He brought up Israel bombing Gaza and tried to comare that with what is taking place in Syrian, but Lavel should have pointed out that Gaza is not Israel.
Russia’s aim in Syria is to kill takfiri vermin. Israel’s aim in Gaza was to kill children-500 children. Anyone who compares the two is a scum-bag, to put it politely.
My only problem with Crosstalk is that the show lasts only 30 minutes. Once in a while, people do get cut off, true, but mostly, there would be no need for that in a 60 minute timeframe.
When do we get translated talk shows from the Russian media?
In the Netherlands, every talk show has a mix of news, (very superficial) background + interpretation & propaganda on a 14 y old level, ´culture´, ´entertainment´ (celebrities) and lots of sports: too boring and irritating to even watch!
Personally I would even prefer hard line nazi propaganda above this brave new world pulp.
Peter, Sharif Nashashibi was quite obnoxious. I was looking at him and thinking, just grow up.
And where is that man’s compassion? That thousands of Syrians, Iraqis, Vietnamese, Libyians etc have been murdered by decisions made in the US government appears to be irrelevant to him.
He was rude. I actually didn’t blame Peter Levenda for picking up on his untruths and trying to get him to see the truth.
Now I want to know something. The story that Assad “murdered his own people” has been doing the rounds for a very long time. I understand that he came back from London, where he was an eye doctor, to rule Syria when his brother was killed in an accident. Just when did he commit these massive murdering sprees?
I know he allowed the CIA to torture in his country (I think I’m right there) but what were his options if he refused? I don’t know.
I would like anyone here to give me the facts on these mass murders please.
And I thank you in advance.
I don’t mid the neo-cons being cut of when they are blatantly lying or evading, but when people like Mercouris and others get cutoff I personally find it frustrating.
Not knocking the show, but personally I can’t watch it.
Many here are okay with it being fast paced, and it would certainly appeal more to the zombies used to sound bites in the MSM news, so getting some of them across can only be a good thing.
Excerpt: ‘Most people instinctively avoid conflict, but as Margaret Heffernan shows us, good disagreement is central to progress. She illustrates (sometimes counter-intuitively) how the best partners aren’t echo chambers — and how great research teams, relationships and businesses allow people to deeply disagree.’
BBc Radio 4 this morning—usual bias, John Humphries, Russia launched missiles against Syria, not into Syria, heads of intelligence guy and JH talk about what there is to be scared about Russia after Ukraine and Syria events , Rus moving so very quickly was there a west intelligence failure, some russian planes in Turkey,Rus seizure of Crimea, supporting Assad, extra uk troops to go to Baltic countries to have a “more persistence presence’ against Rus agression and threat, after Stoltenbergs NATO countries meeting yesterday saying Rus support of Assad east Ukraine etc etc etc, Rus making big mistakes making situation worse, Rus killing Syrian opposition, perhaps not really targeting ISIS
no mention of Rus helping to protect Syrian State, no mention of west supporting illegal Maidan coup, NATO countries and others arming Syrian free army etc etc , no mention of Ukr forces killing Donbass, no mention of sorting out Syria might help refugee situation, no emphasis on the threat from ISIS and their proposed caliphate etc……..
be afraid, be very afraid, of how skewed western media is………as we know, politicians only wish to please the corrupt media.
JJ, I would say that the Western MSM sewer, with its 100% Groupthink, total suppression of contrary opinions and facts, and sickening self-delusion and narcissistic arrogance, is just about the most odious collection of scabrous examples of the genus Homo ever selected for their stooge qualities by real monsters like Rupert Murdoch and his minions. What I really admire about them is their enthusiasm for lying, their sheer histrionic abandon as they spew out their lies and abuse ‘Putin’ or ‘Assad’, spitting out the names with venom. It is as if they are on show, their every action being scrutinised for signs of ideological unreliability that would end their well-paid servitude in an era of low-paid work.
OT…Ron Paul and Daniel McAdams discuss TPP – very good discussion and at 12:30 Daniel points out that the TPP leaks that have come out have covered ‘freedom of the internet’ ….
I sure hope this bill doesn’t pass, and if it passes that there will be terrible opposition. Why is congress allowing this….? What a corrupt bunch of people there are on the planet right now.
I saw this yesterday and that awful “award winning” so called journalist was ruining the whole show. Peter was right to push back because:
a) He kept interrupting other speakers and not letting them have thier few minutes to speak – he esp. did this to Stephen.
b) He made untruthful statements that he couldn’t back up and kept pulling faces throughout the programme – very childish
c) He was an obvious MSM hack who only parrots the narrative. His twist on UNSC approval was a joke. Mr Lavrov and Russia have always maintained that to enter a war in a country you need either UNSC approval or be invited by the Governement of that country. This imbecilic journalist needs to learn international law. Russia was invited bu the legitimate Govt. of Syria and therefore UNSC approval wasn’t required.
I hope crosstalk never has him back – he was so rude, childish, ignorant and beligerent. If that’s the standard of award winning journalism – God help us all.
On October 3, a U.S. AC-130 gunship attacked a hospital run by Médecins Sans Frontières in Kunduz, Afghanistan, partially destroying it. Twelve staff members and 10 patients, including three children, were killed, and 37 people were injured. According to MSF, the U.S. had previously been informed of the hospital’s precise location, and the attack continued for 30 minutes after staff members desperately called the U.S. military.
While the international outcry has been significant, history suggests this is less because of what happened and more because of whom it happened to. The U.S. has repeatedly attacked civilian facilities in the past but the targets have generally not been affiliated with a European, Nobel Peace Prize-winning humanitarian organization such as MSF.
The Yanks live to kill-it gives meaning to their existence. If they couldn’t murder ‘savages’, ‘gooks’, ‘Nips’, ‘rag-heads’, etc they would have to turn on each other with even greater enthusiasm than at present. That such a truly evil polity and society sees itself as human perfection ‘Under God’ is mad enough, but the acquiescence, the servile obeisance of Western ‘elites’ in this monstrous mythology is truly despicable. They’ve even created a Yankee version of the ‘antisemitism’ scam. Criticise any action by any Yank, no matter how plainly depraved, and the automatic reflex response is abuse as an ‘anti-American’ and instant and permanent banishment from the ‘Free Press’. Kiss Yankee posteriors, in contrast, and your future is assured.
I saw an article about the US and Russian planes getting very close to each other over Syria.That was interesting.But it was a couple of comments that were best.The poster brought up some important points:
“The radar graphic is a perfect example of U.S. desperation. Notice the collection of U.S. drones in northern Latakia and Idlib just north of the four Russian aircraft. Now, we’re not bombing anything there. That’s all ‘moderate rebel’ (= al-Jabha al-Shamiya or JaS) head-choppers, including Chechen and Uighur terrorists. The leftover FSA members are scattered around the JaS, but the JaS are literally an extremist head-chopper group by their own claims. The only distinction they have is that the group excludes both al Nusra and ISIS head-choppers because all three are in a head-chopping gang war with each other. JaS Front is just milking the stupid-assed U.S. for money, explosives and weapons through the left-over FSA mercs that are already part of the JaS Front. In fact, they’re the group that looted the fresh batch of ‘moderate rebels’ weapons and pickups the U.S. sent from Turkey. That is, before all those 70 moderate rebels defected TO the JaS head-chopper Front.
So back to the drones. What the hell is the U.S. looking at if they’re not attacking the ‘good’ JaS Front head-choppers? Well, we’re gathering intel to feed to them so they can attack Syrian troops, Hezbollah and now (I guess) the Russians. That’s all the U.S. has left in Syria: supply kill toys and intel to head-choppers.
The danger on the radar graphic is not Russian and American jets fighting each other or colliding. Neither side has any desire for that, and neither do the pilots. The next logical step for Russia is to take out U.S. drones spying for the head-choppers, and they’re going to do that with their ECM drone-frying gear. So you can expect the next round of squealing from Washington to be from someone like McCain after he wet-starts his Depends: “That damn Putin SHOT DOWN one of our head-chopper intel drones! That’s an ACT OF WAR.”
Expect the MSM to ramp up and pin the narrative by blurring the distinction between a manned figher jet and a drone. “They shot down one of our combat aircraft” sounds a lot worse to the knuckle-dragging Americans than “They fried one of our drones”. It won’t stand up as an excuse for full-blown war, but expect the same tired indignation from Washington and plenty of references to furious quotes from nutjobs like McCain. All the while, the U.S. military will refuse to say what intel is being collected and who (among the various head-chopper groups) are we giving this intel to. Just like they will never account for the tons of bulk explosives we’re shipping across the Turkish border to them for their cannon-launched barrel bombs (which have caused far more civilian deaths than all of Assad’s ‘barrel bombs’ combined). ”
Then someone asked him about the “barrel bombs”:
“A barrel bomb is any container stuffed with bulk explosives and lobbed or dropped somewhere else. They’re less efficient blast-wise than a manufactured bomb, but 20 lbs. of explosives like ANFO can still level a building, so close enough. Their crude nature isn’t what makes them indiscriminate – it’s how they get to the target.
The Syrian forces drop them from helicopters that stay well above shoulder-fired SAM range. That probably puts them somewhere within a quarter-mile or so of what they were actually trying to hit. You can’t really aim them when you roll them out the back of a helicopter – the best you can do is target an entire neighborhood and hope it lands somewhere inside. They literally use barrels, so the amount of explosives is probably closer to 100 lbs. In a lot of cases, they ARE targeting entire neighborhoods. When the JaS Front Chechen takfiris move their whole family into a Syrian town they took over (after chopping some heads), the Syrians figure “Why the hell not?”.
For their ‘Hell Cannons’, JaS head-choppers use containers like short propane cylinders and add a gun tube, mortar or rocket motor and fins. They are just as indiscriminate as helicopter barrel bombs. Their accuracy means they’re only good for neighborhoods, not city blocks and not specific buildings. They’re smaller than helicopter bombs, but the head-choppers can set up a cannon and lob dozens of these things at a time into a town causing a lot more damage. Head-chopper hell cannon ‘ammunition’ is made from bulk explosives that has to be shipped to them from Turkey, meaning the U.S. or Saudi Arabia or Turkey is ultimately providing the bulk explosives to JaS for making these neighborhood-bombs. It’s not just ammonium nitrate fertilizer – in many cases, you can see that the JaS head-choppers are using some kind of plastic-like explosives as filler – maybe RDX or HDX. It’s nothing they could possibly make themselves and they use tons of it.
We are as guilty of war crimes by enabling and supplying materials for indiscriminate munitions use as Syrian Forces are for using helicopter barrel bombs. It’s just that the Hell Cannons and their source of bulk explosives is scrubbed from the media as well as the civilian casualties they cause. The various rebel groups are know to use their Hell Cannons to take out neighborhoods sympathetic to Assad, and then filmed and put on the internet as evidence of Syrian helicopter barrel-bombing.”
I keep on saying this. There is not much point exhausting your armed forces and resources in fighting the various tentacles of a monster when as soon as you cut off one tentacle it simply grows a new one.
To dispatch such a monster you need to go for the head and decapitate it. The Syrians have been fighting a grinding war of attrition against Americas tentacles for the past four and a half years now at great cost to themselves and are now receiving much needed help from the Russians. But the Russians are following basically the same strategy of destroying the monsters tentacles and not the monster itself.
For there to be any truly lasting peace on this planet the monster must be destroyed totally, there is no other option for humanity.
know the truth, that is the sad truth. It, unfortunately, means human destruction on an unprecedented scale, or even completely. The global dominance of the USA and the evil cult of ‘Americanism’ has meant the triumph over the world of a force as motivated by the drive to kill, destroy and dominate as any in history. Indeed, more destructive than any other because of the USA’s riches and unique advantages after WW2. Personally, I see our chances of creating a sustainable, humane, morally decent global civilization as depending entirely on the destruction of the USA and the West as they are currently configured as societies and polities, and that has little chance of success because the ruling Western elites will surely destroy the world before surrendering their God-given right to totally dominate and control all of humanity forever.
well, instead of killing them we could ‘imprison’ them…that’s what I think we need to do…its expensive and I dont’ believe in starving prisoners, but all the f***ing money that is in the hands of the 1% needs to be used for the prisons….think of all the employment !!
But a new kind of prison where people are re-habiliated…without parole….but well looked after and educated and given a view of the ‘other’ side of life…I guess alot of the jihadists are from torn countries and families…I mean I saw a video of a Syrian refugee camp and a 6 year old was smoking….sad.
Three very interesting articles on RT this morning.First, a poll in Russia shows that 72% of the population support the governments airstrikes in Syria against ISIS.While only 14% thought they shouldn’t get involved.And the rest say they didn’t know enough about it all to give an opinion
Second,the gloves are coming off with the US there.The US refuses to share info on ISIS targets with Russia.The US said (very important were the words they used),“I don’t know how you can share intelligence when you don’t share a basic, common objective inside Syria. We’re not at that – we’re nowhere near that point. There’s no shared, common objective here about going after ISIL,” Hmmm,No common objective “about going after ISIL” a very telling statement. Russia’s answer to the US was,… “The question is: which side are you fighting for in this war?”. Also a very telling statement.
Third,Russia warns that ISIS is now training fighters inside Afghanistan to take over there.And move into Central Asia,Russia,and China (time for China to get off the fence for their own protection).And that some of the terrorist trainers are from the US and the UK.
I think it important to understand the birth and evolution of Daesh and its planned use by the Outlaw Empire. Clearly, it’s similar to al-CIAda but on a larger scale similar to the Death Squads (which were much bigger than ten men) employed in South & Central America to be used specifically as paramilitary forces to destabilize/sow chaos in the countries its inserted into–a lot like those used in Colombia. Daesh is the force the Outlaw Empire will use to invade Central Asian countries and China’s western provinces to prevent the economic visions of China and Russia from fruition. I’m sure the Russians and Chinese have also made a similar assessment. I’m very curious to know what’s decided at the Russian Defence Ministry’s Afghan Conference that’s currently taking place as you can be sure some of those Outlaw Empire forces left there will be engaged in further training Daesh. Afghanistan’s an Observer SCO member and most CSTO states border it.
It would be a real coup to discover documents proving Daesh is an irregular army sponsored and directed by the Outlaw Empire. Yes, lots of circumstantial evidence but no smoking gun to get the world to decisively turn against the Outlaw Empire–yet. Given the Outlaw Empire’s past behavior, I’m certain it’ll be used in the manner described.
The Nobel Prize Winner’s war plan for Syria is failing though 300,000 Syrians already killed:
A recently released classified document obtained by WikiLeaks establishes that active US planning for regime-change predated the outbreak of the Syrian civil war by at least five years. The secret report from the head of the US Embassy in Damascus outlined “vulnerabilities” of the Syrian government that Washington could exploit. At the top of the list were fomenting “Sunni fears of Iranian influence” to cause sectarian conflict and taking advantage of “the presence of transiting Islamist extremists.”
Given that the document was written in 2006, at the height of Iraq’s sectarian carnage caused by the US invasion and Washington’s divide-and-rule tactics, these proposals were made with full awareness that they would provoke a bloodbath. Nearly a decade later, the bitter fruits of this policy include the deaths of some 300,000 Syrians, with another 4 million driven from the country and 7 million more internally displaced.
While cynically exploiting the suffering of the Syrian people to justify an escalation of US militarism, Washington is not about to let Russia derail its drive to impose its hegemony over the oil-rich Middle East and the entire planet.
Obama had been waging a fake war for over a year on his own creation, ISIS, – 6700 airstrikes and no effect :
Russia’s First Week in Waging a “Real” War on Terror. 112 Targets Struck. ISIS Forces Retreating
Meanwhile, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has warned Russia that its military action in Syria is endangering trade ties with Turkey.
Erdogan told a group of journalists en-route from Brussels to Tokyo that Ankara could look elsewhere for gas supplies and cancel the construction of its first nuclear power plant, which is being built by Russia. Russia supplies 60 per cent of Turkey’s gas needs.
‘Losing Turkey would be a serious loss for Russia,’ Erdogan said. ‘If necessary, Turkey could seek to procure natural gas from different places.’
Let’s see Erdogan’s words after the November elections.But in the meantime, maybe Putin should send him pictures of those missile strikes against ISIS.And write under them, ” do you feel lucky,punk”.
I think Nashashibi had done his homework and had come on the program with the intention of winding up Peter to the extent of losing his cool. In this he was successful. He hit some of Peter’s red buttons (Gaza and Ukraine, for example), dictated the narrative and reduced Peter to shouting. On the other hand what is great about Peter is that he wears his heart on his sleeve; he obviously cares a lot about what he feels is right and wrong. He is not your average TV chat host and that is what is so refreshing. But just as people study Bill O’Reilly at Fox to get one over him, Peter needs to realize that he will be a target for pro-Nato journalists who want to mock or demean him, and should adapt his behaviour accordingly. I say this with real appreciation for the man and his program.
As the Oct 10 Crosstalk isn’t up yet, I will comment here. I agree this one on the 8th was good, even with the grandstanding elements, but I am disheartened by the one I just saw this morning. It seemed all participants bought into the notion of Great Powers making decisions for smaller countries. And much blame visited on Saudi Arabia, which does deserve it, but nothing said about the importance of the arms trade to the US – as if we could just shut that off and the corporate entities allied with the military would just twiddle their thumbs.
Perhaps that can’t be addressed online RT, but it seemed a very shallow discussion as a consequence. I would hope that what Russia is about is not a Rumsfeldian Shock and Awe – which latter was against a government entity – but support of the government of Syria – the idea of all the partitions being suggested by everyone on the program really sickened me, I have to say. Everyone addressing ‘Assad has to go’ as if Russia and the US would be the deciders. That is the cynical same-old, same-old, and I’m really sad that even the program host was buying into this.
(If and when you do have the program sited here, I will return and retrieve this for that thread – just had to vent while it was fresh in my mind. I look forward to seeing what others have to say about it.)
My goodness! What an argument! Best I’ve heard yet on this site. I guess that different parties have different opinions but don’t want to hear those of the others. Same in the real world we inhabit.
Peter Lavelle strikes me as, shall we say, very excitable and rather superficial. In lieu of a calm logical argument he invariably uses his position as the host of the show to crudely silence any guests who disagree with him – by simply outshouting them. This particular instalment of “CrossTalk” was certainly no exception. The Arab fellow from London, Sharif Nashashibi, nicely spoke of, among other things, a general hypocrisy among governments. For instance, he pointed out the inconsistency in applying the principle, that a military intervention is legal if it is done “by invitation” of the host government. (Thus, the U.S. would claim that its military intervention in the 1960-s in South Vietnam was “legal”, because it was done by invitation of that government – but at the same time that same U.S. would label the Russian intervention in Syria “illegal”, even though it was done also by invitation of the host country’s government. And vice-versa with Russia.) He provided a refreshing antidote to the usual complacency permeating this show and to the bizarre conduct of its host.
***well Mr Armchair Warrior, when you do better than Peter Lavelle, maybe millions will watch you instead of him – mod
I don’t bother to watch him either Mod for the same reason. I would prefer to see someone have their say as long as they are not getting off track.
I just have a look at the comments on the crosstalk articles.
The comment section at RT are full of pro-Western Russophobic trolls.They have been from the start.RT has probably the very worse moderation of any news site.That is common knowledge and talked about constantly.So if you are basing any opinions on the comment section at RT that’s a bad idea.
I meant the comments here Bob. I’ve had a glance at the RT comments a couple of times and that was enough.
Yes,they are literally the worse I think I’ve seen.And after the US sites,and the Guardian,I thought I’d seen some bad ones.I believe its partly because they are “bending over backwards” to not get accused of “censorship”.That they are letting themselves become a cesspool for Russophobes.
yeah its too bad about RT comment section…although I suppose if they moderated the comments you’d end up with millions of great comments and the US would have to somehow pull the plug on RT in America. I guess the comment section is the sacrifice for RT in US
Have you noticed, Bob, that recently in the Guardian’s Comments sewer, that there has been a real outbreak of Thought Crime, attacking the Exceptionalist Empire, and even the Guardian’s hard Right bias and mendacity as well? All the Empire loyalists can manage in reply is the usual puking of the ‘Putinbot’ smear, that passes for ‘intellectual rigour’ on the Right. There are many, many, long-term Guardian readers really repulsed by its conversion into a Rightwing, Zionazi, shit-rag.
@Peter Agreed – I rarely watch “crosstalk” for exactly the same reason, but instead do read the comments on it here, one may find some useful information in those.
@ “Peter”: This Sharif idiot was the most rude MSM zombified Troll I ever had to witness on CrossTalk. I think he got way too much time to repeat western propaganda lies. And he never stopped talking, absolutely showed no respect for the moderator nor that there are other guests not him alone. He misunderstood having a CrossTalk with having Anarchy and the law of the jungle.
He can be happy that Peter Lavelle didn’t throw him out of the show and that it was in fact aired like that.
Hi Martin !! Hear Hear I agree…Peter Lavelle works so hard..every day almost he’s got another group of guests and the ones that are pro-Empire have to be ‘crushed’….
The US going into South Vietnam was “legal”.That was not the point at all.It was “immoral” to involve itself in a civil war in Vietnam,not “illegal”.And since the US see’s its involvement there as legal.They can’t then see Russia’s in Syria as “illegal”.And in support of a government that wasn’t supported by the Vietnamese population. No country gets to interpret international law strictly in favor of themselves.No matter how “exceptional” they claim to be.They may want to,true.But there will always be others to call them on it.The case of Syria is very different.The current government there is supported by the majority of the population.And its not a real civil war they are fighting.The Syrian government is fighting foreign backed terrorist gangs.Many if not most of which are not even Syrians.And whom all of them are armed,paid,and directed by foreign states.Comparing Vietnam to Syria is an “apple and oranges” comparison.This Sharif Nashashibi fellow was anything but speaking nicely.He constantly interrupted the conversation,told half-truths.And tried to use the show as a “anti-Assad soapbox”.Not to find viable answers to the war.His one and only idea was the same as the Western terror backers idea ,”Assad must go”.Russia has made it clear,that isn’t happening unless the Syrian people themselves want that.So if the West wants “any” say at all in Syria.They will need to change that “tune”,or they are going to be left totally out of the solution.
Yes, what’s happening in Syria isn’t a civil war, and I wish Russian media would cease using that term cause that reinforces the West’s propaganda. What’s happening is the second phase of an unsuccessful Color Revolution–the armed invasion from within the country using terrorism to overthrow the legitimate government of the sort that succeeded in Ukraine. The countries that have declared war on Syria are those which have provided for the armed invasion from within and maintain it. So, the Outlaw Empire and its coalition of vassals have declared war on Syria–and every other country infected by Daesh. Is that the reality Putin and Lavrov are describing in their talks with regional leaders? The second half of the operation in Iraq will also require an inventive political settlement once Daesh et al are routed. Both states require massive infusions of capital to rebuild their shattered infrastructure and economies that would be a great profile project for the New Asian Investment and BRICS Banks.
You are apparently applying the principle (A) “intervention is OK if it is by invitation of a government which enjoys the support of the population”.
Which is not at all the same principle as the principle (B) “intervention is OK if it is by invitation of a government”.
Both interventions – the U.S. one in South Vietnam and the Russian one in Syria – are equally “legal” according the principle “(B)”.
According to the principle “(A)”, however, things are more “complicated”. Intractable in fact…
(Applying “(A)” presupposes (!) knowing whether the particular government “enjoys the support of the population”. And here is where we run into trouble, as it is easy to claim but difficult to prove who does and who does not enjoy such support. Worse yet, how do you define “support of the population”? Do you mean merely a victory in an election? A victory in some systems (such as in the U.S.A.) is not by an absolute majority. And in some systems (the ones in Eastern Europe under communism for instance) everybody votes “for” the one and only government. Or, perhaps you mean a victory in a fair election? But then, how do you define “fair”?! … Can one then rely merely on “opinion polls”? Who runs these?………… And if you say that things are “obvious” … maybe … and maybe not … what so obviously is to you, may be obviously not to someone else. Etc., etc.)
Except South Vietnam never had a legitimate government. Ike killed the UN-sponsored elections that would have unified the country in 1956. There was never supposed to be a North and South Vietnam.
Again a problem: how do you define “legitimate”? “Legitimacy” obviously depends on the eyes, emotions and “vested” interests of the beholder. South and North Vietnam were as much de-facto states as were East Germany (DDR) and West Germany (BDR), or North and South Korea still are, or China (PRC) and Taiwan still are.
I smell sulfur…
Well then ,either under your A or B,Russia is right to be there.The A scenario goes with my “immoral” thinking about the US role in Vietnam.But if we are “only” talking legal,B will do for Russia’s right to be in Syria.
‘South Vietnam’ was a US invention, a death-squad regime of compradores with French colonialism and the usual ‘pro-Western’ types ie mafiosi, drug-runners, brothel-keepers, big landlords etc, who the USA installed in power contrary to the Geneva Agreements of 1954, run by a Catholic fascist Diem, who was in tight with the Roman Catholic hierarchy in the USA,. The regime terrorised the rural population, running classic US death-squad operations like Operation Phoenix, and once the USA left, and the weight of US terror-bombing and chemical warfare was removed, the regime quickly collapsed, and the leading lights fled to the USA, where many moved smoothly into drug-running and other gangster activity. The hundreds of thousands who also fled are now quite free to return to their homeland to visit relatives and even open businesses etc. However the four million dead, murdered by US evil, and the poisoned land, the victim of the greatest chemical warfare in history, cannot be magically returned.
@ Petar
Before WWII Vietnam was a French colony. The Japanese kicked the French out and the Vietnamese worked with the US and fought the Japanese. At the end of WWII US troop ships brought in the French to reclaim their colony. The Vietnamese fought the French for independence.
They first asked the US for help and when it was refused they asked Russia.
I forget the dates and place names but peace talks were scheduled in Paris, but on or very near the due date of the peace talks, the Vietnamese wiped out the French force in Vietnam.
The French pulled out unconditionally and for a very short time Vietnam had independence.
The US then decided they were commies and so started the Vietnam / US war.
One again they were fighting for independence and the US were fighting commies.
Somebody else can no doubt tidy that history up a bit but basically from 1945 until 1975, Vietnam was fighting for independence.
Those that sided with the French then the US, basically traitors to their country, ended up coming here to Australia as boat people.
I wonder what the real reason for US to go into Vietnam was ? It wasn’t just ‘commies’ surely…
The ‘Golden Triangle’ Ann.
Then as now,the CIA used opium/heroin from the southeast asian region.
Last year alone,the afgan farmers produced over 6,000 tons of opium.
By selling drugs and guns,the CIA has private funding,not subject to congressional oversight,in order to run it’s ‘black opps’.
What Peter wrote was true!. The Battle of Dien Bien Phu finished the French.
And the ‘boat people’ were not poor,they came with lots of gold bullion.
within a couple of years whole streets,in Melbourne,Sydney and Adelaide,were just Vietnamese shops.
Parramatta and Cabramatta outside Sydney,became known as Vietnamatta
Large sections of Melbourne were inundated too. Box Hill is now has a large Vietnamese population, and there, Springvale and other shopping centres mostly have Vietnamese names.
Many come out here for education (a few have stayed with my sister) and most would love to live here afterwards.
But I am old enough to remember the Greeks, the Italians and the Turks. Eventually we seem to be able to cope.
Now we are getting Syrians… But when their countries are destroyed, what choice do they have if they want their children to have a better life?
Thanks Jack, yes of course. Drugs. And I remember when there were Vietnamese people in Canada, even on the islands…they didn’t earn themselves good reputations…they were mushroom picking – the big orange ones called Chantrels – for food and the ‘vietnamese boat people’ used to go into the forests with rakes and damage all the mushroom areas…Mushrooms come back every year in the same spot so if you rake it, you wreck it…
I was younger then, and didn’t know anything about politics except for mushroom politics.
South China Sea oil and gas.
Wars are fought over economic resources and geographic choke points.
So, China was to be contained, oil and gas possessed and the naval hegemony of the SE Asia passages from Straits of Taiwan down around through the Straits of Mallaca was a US lake, in practical terms.
The US is still trying to force itself upon the Chinese with naval power in the South China Sea.
There will be a move soon to test 12 miles limits China must defend.
It is never over ideology that war is fought. That is what the war is packaged inside.
It is hegemony, need for minerals, need for imports and need to export. Always Economics.
Read Albert Burke’s book or find his old TV shows (1959-60 era). Man was brilliant in explaining this concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_E._Burke
amazon.com/Enough-good-men-way-thinking/dp/B0006AY0BY/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1444315029&sr=1-1
The problem is that Sharif Nashashibi made some absurd arguments and Lavel could easily have rebutted them if he was better prepared.
Russia coming to Assad’s aid is legitimate as states always come to the aid of their allies. The UN does not have a say in the matter and it cannot over rule agreements between states.
He brought up Israel bombing Gaza and tried to comare that with what is taking place in Syrian, but Lavel should have pointed out that Gaza is not Israel.
Russia’s aim in Syria is to kill takfiri vermin. Israel’s aim in Gaza was to kill children-500 children. Anyone who compares the two is a scum-bag, to put it politely.
My only problem with Crosstalk is that the show lasts only 30 minutes. Once in a while, people do get cut off, true, but mostly, there would be no need for that in a 60 minute timeframe.
When do we get translated talk shows from the Russian media?
In the Netherlands, every talk show has a mix of news, (very superficial) background + interpretation & propaganda on a 14 y old level, ´culture´, ´entertainment´ (celebrities) and lots of sports: too boring and irritating to even watch!
Personally I would even prefer hard line nazi propaganda above this brave new world pulp.
Peter, Sharif Nashashibi was quite obnoxious. I was looking at him and thinking, just grow up.
And where is that man’s compassion? That thousands of Syrians, Iraqis, Vietnamese, Libyians etc have been murdered by decisions made in the US government appears to be irrelevant to him.
He was rude. I actually didn’t blame Peter Levenda for picking up on his untruths and trying to get him to see the truth.
Now I want to know something. The story that Assad “murdered his own people” has been doing the rounds for a very long time. I understand that he came back from London, where he was an eye doctor, to rule Syria when his brother was killed in an accident. Just when did he commit these massive murdering sprees?
I know he allowed the CIA to torture in his country (I think I’m right there) but what were his options if he refused? I don’t know.
I would like anyone here to give me the facts on these mass murders please.
And I thank you in advance.
I don’t mid the neo-cons being cut of when they are blatantly lying or evading, but when people like Mercouris and others get cutoff I personally find it frustrating.
Not knocking the show, but personally I can’t watch it.
Many here are okay with it being fast paced, and it would certainly appeal more to the zombies used to sound bites in the MSM news, so getting some of them across can only be a good thing.
@ anonymous mod,
Q; ***well Mr Armchair Warrior, when you do better than Peter Lavelle, maybe millions will watch you instead of him – mod
R; Dare to disagree – link to TED.
Excerpt: ‘Most people instinctively avoid conflict, but as Margaret Heffernan shows us, good disagreement is central to progress. She illustrates (sometimes counter-intuitively) how the best partners aren’t echo chambers — and how great research teams, relationships and businesses allow people to deeply disagree.’
the middle guy is a shill for sure…a smarmy guy
Personally, I preferred that older diplomat Richard and not that newly minted hipster-journalist. Weaponized expertise is a sign of the times.
yeah, same here…that one…
BBc Radio 4 this morning—usual bias, John Humphries, Russia launched missiles against Syria, not into Syria, heads of intelligence guy and JH talk about what there is to be scared about Russia after Ukraine and Syria events , Rus moving so very quickly was there a west intelligence failure, some russian planes in Turkey,Rus seizure of Crimea, supporting Assad, extra uk troops to go to Baltic countries to have a “more persistence presence’ against Rus agression and threat, after Stoltenbergs NATO countries meeting yesterday saying Rus support of Assad east Ukraine etc etc etc, Rus making big mistakes making situation worse, Rus killing Syrian opposition, perhaps not really targeting ISIS
no mention of Rus helping to protect Syrian State, no mention of west supporting illegal Maidan coup, NATO countries and others arming Syrian free army etc etc , no mention of Ukr forces killing Donbass, no mention of sorting out Syria might help refugee situation, no emphasis on the threat from ISIS and their proposed caliphate etc……..
be afraid, be very afraid, of how skewed western media is………as we know, politicians only wish to please the corrupt media.
I agree and like Bashar i watch their news media distortions and lies to try and glean what their agenda,moves will be.
Soup’s beginning to boil, not over but beyond simmering now.
JJ, I would say that the Western MSM sewer, with its 100% Groupthink, total suppression of contrary opinions and facts, and sickening self-delusion and narcissistic arrogance, is just about the most odious collection of scabrous examples of the genus Homo ever selected for their stooge qualities by real monsters like Rupert Murdoch and his minions. What I really admire about them is their enthusiasm for lying, their sheer histrionic abandon as they spew out their lies and abuse ‘Putin’ or ‘Assad’, spitting out the names with venom. It is as if they are on show, their every action being scrutinised for signs of ideological unreliability that would end their well-paid servitude in an era of low-paid work.
OT…Ron Paul and Daniel McAdams discuss TPP – very good discussion and at 12:30 Daniel points out that the TPP leaks that have come out have covered ‘freedom of the internet’ ….
I sure hope this bill doesn’t pass, and if it passes that there will be terrible opposition. Why is congress allowing this….? What a corrupt bunch of people there are on the planet right now.
I saw this yesterday and that awful “award winning” so called journalist was ruining the whole show. Peter was right to push back because:
a) He kept interrupting other speakers and not letting them have thier few minutes to speak – he esp. did this to Stephen.
b) He made untruthful statements that he couldn’t back up and kept pulling faces throughout the programme – very childish
c) He was an obvious MSM hack who only parrots the narrative. His twist on UNSC approval was a joke. Mr Lavrov and Russia have always maintained that to enter a war in a country you need either UNSC approval or be invited by the Governement of that country. This imbecilic journalist needs to learn international law. Russia was invited bu the legitimate Govt. of Syria and therefore UNSC approval wasn’t required.
I hope crosstalk never has him back – he was so rude, childish, ignorant and beligerent. If that’s the standard of award winning journalism – God help us all.
+1!
On October 3, a U.S. AC-130 gunship attacked a hospital run by Médecins Sans Frontières in Kunduz, Afghanistan, partially destroying it. Twelve staff members and 10 patients, including three children, were killed, and 37 people were injured. According to MSF, the U.S. had previously been informed of the hospital’s precise location, and the attack continued for 30 minutes after staff members desperately called the U.S. military.
While the international outcry has been significant, history suggests this is less because of what happened and more because of whom it happened to. The U.S. has repeatedly attacked civilian facilities in the past but the targets have generally not been affiliated with a European, Nobel Peace Prize-winning humanitarian organization such as MSF.
Read more here – A Short History of U.S. Bombing of Civilian Facilities:https://theintercept.com/2015/10/07/a-short-history-of-u-s-bombing-of-civilian-facilities/?comments=1#comments
The Yanks live to kill-it gives meaning to their existence. If they couldn’t murder ‘savages’, ‘gooks’, ‘Nips’, ‘rag-heads’, etc they would have to turn on each other with even greater enthusiasm than at present. That such a truly evil polity and society sees itself as human perfection ‘Under God’ is mad enough, but the acquiescence, the servile obeisance of Western ‘elites’ in this monstrous mythology is truly despicable. They’ve even created a Yankee version of the ‘antisemitism’ scam. Criticise any action by any Yank, no matter how plainly depraved, and the automatic reflex response is abuse as an ‘anti-American’ and instant and permanent banishment from the ‘Free Press’. Kiss Yankee posteriors, in contrast, and your future is assured.
I saw an article about the US and Russian planes getting very close to each other over Syria.That was interesting.But it was a couple of comments that were best.The poster brought up some important points:
“The radar graphic is a perfect example of U.S. desperation. Notice the collection of U.S. drones in northern Latakia and Idlib just north of the four Russian aircraft. Now, we’re not bombing anything there. That’s all ‘moderate rebel’ (= al-Jabha al-Shamiya or JaS) head-choppers, including Chechen and Uighur terrorists. The leftover FSA members are scattered around the JaS, but the JaS are literally an extremist head-chopper group by their own claims. The only distinction they have is that the group excludes both al Nusra and ISIS head-choppers because all three are in a head-chopping gang war with each other. JaS Front is just milking the stupid-assed U.S. for money, explosives and weapons through the left-over FSA mercs that are already part of the JaS Front. In fact, they’re the group that looted the fresh batch of ‘moderate rebels’ weapons and pickups the U.S. sent from Turkey. That is, before all those 70 moderate rebels defected TO the JaS head-chopper Front.
So back to the drones. What the hell is the U.S. looking at if they’re not attacking the ‘good’ JaS Front head-choppers? Well, we’re gathering intel to feed to them so they can attack Syrian troops, Hezbollah and now (I guess) the Russians. That’s all the U.S. has left in Syria: supply kill toys and intel to head-choppers.
The danger on the radar graphic is not Russian and American jets fighting each other or colliding. Neither side has any desire for that, and neither do the pilots. The next logical step for Russia is to take out U.S. drones spying for the head-choppers, and they’re going to do that with their ECM drone-frying gear. So you can expect the next round of squealing from Washington to be from someone like McCain after he wet-starts his Depends: “That damn Putin SHOT DOWN one of our head-chopper intel drones! That’s an ACT OF WAR.”
Expect the MSM to ramp up and pin the narrative by blurring the distinction between a manned figher jet and a drone. “They shot down one of our combat aircraft” sounds a lot worse to the knuckle-dragging Americans than “They fried one of our drones”. It won’t stand up as an excuse for full-blown war, but expect the same tired indignation from Washington and plenty of references to furious quotes from nutjobs like McCain. All the while, the U.S. military will refuse to say what intel is being collected and who (among the various head-chopper groups) are we giving this intel to. Just like they will never account for the tons of bulk explosives we’re shipping across the Turkish border to them for their cannon-launched barrel bombs (which have caused far more civilian deaths than all of Assad’s ‘barrel bombs’ combined). ”
Then someone asked him about the “barrel bombs”:
“A barrel bomb is any container stuffed with bulk explosives and lobbed or dropped somewhere else. They’re less efficient blast-wise than a manufactured bomb, but 20 lbs. of explosives like ANFO can still level a building, so close enough. Their crude nature isn’t what makes them indiscriminate – it’s how they get to the target.
The Syrian forces drop them from helicopters that stay well above shoulder-fired SAM range. That probably puts them somewhere within a quarter-mile or so of what they were actually trying to hit. You can’t really aim them when you roll them out the back of a helicopter – the best you can do is target an entire neighborhood and hope it lands somewhere inside. They literally use barrels, so the amount of explosives is probably closer to 100 lbs. In a lot of cases, they ARE targeting entire neighborhoods. When the JaS Front Chechen takfiris move their whole family into a Syrian town they took over (after chopping some heads), the Syrians figure “Why the hell not?”.
For their ‘Hell Cannons’, JaS head-choppers use containers like short propane cylinders and add a gun tube, mortar or rocket motor and fins. They are just as indiscriminate as helicopter barrel bombs. Their accuracy means they’re only good for neighborhoods, not city blocks and not specific buildings. They’re smaller than helicopter bombs, but the head-choppers can set up a cannon and lob dozens of these things at a time into a town causing a lot more damage. Head-chopper hell cannon ‘ammunition’ is made from bulk explosives that has to be shipped to them from Turkey, meaning the U.S. or Saudi Arabia or Turkey is ultimately providing the bulk explosives to JaS for making these neighborhood-bombs. It’s not just ammonium nitrate fertilizer – in many cases, you can see that the JaS head-choppers are using some kind of plastic-like explosives as filler – maybe RDX or HDX. It’s nothing they could possibly make themselves and they use tons of it.
We are as guilty of war crimes by enabling and supplying materials for indiscriminate munitions use as Syrian Forces are for using helicopter barrel bombs. It’s just that the Hell Cannons and their source of bulk explosives is scrubbed from the media as well as the civilian casualties they cause. The various rebel groups are know to use their Hell Cannons to take out neighborhoods sympathetic to Assad, and then filmed and put on the internet as evidence of Syrian helicopter barrel-bombing.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-06/how-close-us-and-russian-jets-are-dog-fight-above-syria
I keep on saying this. There is not much point exhausting your armed forces and resources in fighting the various tentacles of a monster when as soon as you cut off one tentacle it simply grows a new one.
To dispatch such a monster you need to go for the head and decapitate it. The Syrians have been fighting a grinding war of attrition against Americas tentacles for the past four and a half years now at great cost to themselves and are now receiving much needed help from the Russians. But the Russians are following basically the same strategy of destroying the monsters tentacles and not the monster itself.
For there to be any truly lasting peace on this planet the monster must be destroyed totally, there is no other option for humanity.
know the truth, that is the sad truth. It, unfortunately, means human destruction on an unprecedented scale, or even completely. The global dominance of the USA and the evil cult of ‘Americanism’ has meant the triumph over the world of a force as motivated by the drive to kill, destroy and dominate as any in history. Indeed, more destructive than any other because of the USA’s riches and unique advantages after WW2. Personally, I see our chances of creating a sustainable, humane, morally decent global civilization as depending entirely on the destruction of the USA and the West as they are currently configured as societies and polities, and that has little chance of success because the ruling Western elites will surely destroy the world before surrendering their God-given right to totally dominate and control all of humanity forever.
well, instead of killing them we could ‘imprison’ them…that’s what I think we need to do…its expensive and I dont’ believe in starving prisoners, but all the f***ing money that is in the hands of the 1% needs to be used for the prisons….think of all the employment !!
But a new kind of prison where people are re-habiliated…without parole….but well looked after and educated and given a view of the ‘other’ side of life…I guess alot of the jihadists are from torn countries and families…I mean I saw a video of a Syrian refugee camp and a 6 year old was smoking….sad.
Three very interesting articles on RT this morning.First, a poll in Russia shows that 72% of the population support the governments airstrikes in Syria against ISIS.While only 14% thought they shouldn’t get involved.And the rest say they didn’t know enough about it all to give an opinion
https://www.rt.com/politics/317988-over-70-percent-of-russians/
Second,the gloves are coming off with the US there.The US refuses to share info on ISIS targets with Russia.The US said (very important were the words they used),“I don’t know how you can share intelligence when you don’t share a basic, common objective inside Syria. We’re not at that – we’re nowhere near that point. There’s no shared, common objective here about going after ISIL,” Hmmm,No common objective “about going after ISIL” a very telling statement. Russia’s answer to the US was,… “The question is: which side are you fighting for in this war?”. Also a very telling statement.
https://www.rt.com/news/317983-russia-us-coalition-isis/
Third,Russia warns that ISIS is now training fighters inside Afghanistan to take over there.And move into Central Asia,Russia,and China (time for China to get off the fence for their own protection).And that some of the terrorist trainers are from the US and the UK.
https://www.rt.com/news/317989-afghanistan-isis-train-russians/
I think it important to understand the birth and evolution of Daesh and its planned use by the Outlaw Empire. Clearly, it’s similar to al-CIAda but on a larger scale similar to the Death Squads (which were much bigger than ten men) employed in South & Central America to be used specifically as paramilitary forces to destabilize/sow chaos in the countries its inserted into–a lot like those used in Colombia. Daesh is the force the Outlaw Empire will use to invade Central Asian countries and China’s western provinces to prevent the economic visions of China and Russia from fruition. I’m sure the Russians and Chinese have also made a similar assessment. I’m very curious to know what’s decided at the Russian Defence Ministry’s Afghan Conference that’s currently taking place as you can be sure some of those Outlaw Empire forces left there will be engaged in further training Daesh. Afghanistan’s an Observer SCO member and most CSTO states border it.
It would be a real coup to discover documents proving Daesh is an irregular army sponsored and directed by the Outlaw Empire. Yes, lots of circumstantial evidence but no smoking gun to get the world to decisively turn against the Outlaw Empire–yet. Given the Outlaw Empire’s past behavior, I’m certain it’ll be used in the manner described.
Fith column daesh/isis terrorists(faked refugees) already in Europe.
Check this twitter account.
https://twitter.com/EU_MilitiaWatch
Many thanks for this to Merkel and Hollande and all the eurocretins.
When is the charlie psyop forseen?
I checked the link and I smell a rat.
‘EU Militia’. Hmmmm.
This twitter account equates the Iranian armed forces with ISIS. That is simply disgusting.
The Nobel Prize Winner’s war plan for Syria is failing though 300,000 Syrians already killed:
A recently released classified document obtained by WikiLeaks establishes that active US planning for regime-change predated the outbreak of the Syrian civil war by at least five years. The secret report from the head of the US Embassy in Damascus outlined “vulnerabilities” of the Syrian government that Washington could exploit. At the top of the list were fomenting “Sunni fears of Iranian influence” to cause sectarian conflict and taking advantage of “the presence of transiting Islamist extremists.”
Given that the document was written in 2006, at the height of Iraq’s sectarian carnage caused by the US invasion and Washington’s divide-and-rule tactics, these proposals were made with full awareness that they would provoke a bloodbath. Nearly a decade later, the bitter fruits of this policy include the deaths of some 300,000 Syrians, with another 4 million driven from the country and 7 million more internally displaced.
While cynically exploiting the suffering of the Syrian people to justify an escalation of US militarism, Washington is not about to let Russia derail its drive to impose its hegemony over the oil-rich Middle East and the entire planet.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/10/08/pers-o08.html
Putin is the deranged “mass-murderer” per the free and fair press of the West
Western warmongers killed 1.5 million Muslims in ‘war on terror’; falsely accuse Russia of ’30 civilian casualties’ in airstrikes against ISIS
http://www.sott.net/article/303143-Western-warmongers-killed-1-5-million-Muslims-in-war-on-terror-falsely-accuse-Russia-of-30-civilian-casualties-in-airstrikes-against-ISIS
Obama had been waging a fake war for over a year on his own creation, ISIS, – 6700 airstrikes and no effect :
Russia’s First Week in Waging a “Real” War on Terror. 112 Targets Struck. ISIS Forces Retreating
http://www.globalresearch.ca/russias-first-week-in-waging-a-real-war-on-terror-112-targets-struck-isis-forces-retreating/5480589
From Vox Populi Evo:
Female “World Team”……lovely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzSn4I1A684
“Happy Birthday Mr President” eng subs
‘Going down to Donbas to do something’ a song by David Simpson
from Vox Populi Evo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_n8Dzlau0c
Givi,Motorola & wife lots of pictures of the fighters….great!
Meanwhile, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has warned Russia that its military action in Syria is endangering trade ties with Turkey.
Erdogan told a group of journalists en-route from Brussels to Tokyo that Ankara could look elsewhere for gas supplies and cancel the construction of its first nuclear power plant, which is being built by Russia. Russia supplies 60 per cent of Turkey’s gas needs.
‘Losing Turkey would be a serious loss for Russia,’ Erdogan said. ‘If necessary, Turkey could seek to procure natural gas from different places.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3264574/Russia-s-cruise-missiles-seen-speeding-skies-way-destroy-ISIS-targets-Syrian-army-begins-major-attack-towns-held-terrorists.html#ixzz3nzdoTkJI
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so be it then……..
BTW, Pepe Escobar had a couple of interesting things to say about “The Sultan” Erdoğan: https://www.rt.com/op-edge/317804-isis-turkey-jet-russia/
Let’s see Erdogan’s words after the November elections.But in the meantime, maybe Putin should send him pictures of those missile strikes against ISIS.And write under them, ” do you feel lucky,punk”.
OT :
There is a spin doctor in Quora, namely, Igor Markov.
Ishchenko and analysis of the Paris meeting on Minsk II: This man’s clarity of mind shines through even in translation –thank you.
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/10/ishchenko-what-are-real-issues.html
I think Nashashibi had done his homework and had come on the program with the intention of winding up Peter to the extent of losing his cool. In this he was successful. He hit some of Peter’s red buttons (Gaza and Ukraine, for example), dictated the narrative and reduced Peter to shouting. On the other hand what is great about Peter is that he wears his heart on his sleeve; he obviously cares a lot about what he feels is right and wrong. He is not your average TV chat host and that is what is so refreshing. But just as people study Bill O’Reilly at Fox to get one over him, Peter needs to realize that he will be a target for pro-Nato journalists who want to mock or demean him, and should adapt his behaviour accordingly. I say this with real appreciation for the man and his program.
As the Oct 10 Crosstalk isn’t up yet, I will comment here. I agree this one on the 8th was good, even with the grandstanding elements, but I am disheartened by the one I just saw this morning. It seemed all participants bought into the notion of Great Powers making decisions for smaller countries. And much blame visited on Saudi Arabia, which does deserve it, but nothing said about the importance of the arms trade to the US – as if we could just shut that off and the corporate entities allied with the military would just twiddle their thumbs.
Perhaps that can’t be addressed online RT, but it seemed a very shallow discussion as a consequence. I would hope that what Russia is about is not a Rumsfeldian Shock and Awe – which latter was against a government entity – but support of the government of Syria – the idea of all the partitions being suggested by everyone on the program really sickened me, I have to say. Everyone addressing ‘Assad has to go’ as if Russia and the US would be the deciders. That is the cynical same-old, same-old, and I’m really sad that even the program host was buying into this.
(If and when you do have the program sited here, I will return and retrieve this for that thread – just had to vent while it was fresh in my mind. I look forward to seeing what others have to say about it.)