The Nagorno-Karabakh war has apparently been developing in the favor of the Turkish-Azerbaijani bloc. On the evening of October 29, the Armenian side confirmed that Azerbaijani troops have almost reached the second largest town in Nagorno-Karabakh – Shusha, which is located just a few km from the capital of the self-proclaimed republic – Stepanakert. Arayik Harutyunyan, the president of the republic, called on Armenians to take arms to defend their homeland.
“Shusha is not just a town, it is the symbol of the determination of the Armenian people to live in their own cradle, a symbol of the victories of the Armenian people. Shusha is the beating heart of all Armenians. As the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of Artsakh, I once again call on each and every one of you to unite and defend our Shusha, our Artsakh, our national dignity,” he said.
Azerbaijani infantry reportedly outflanked defense positions of the Armenians near Hadrut and deployed about 5km from Shusha. The presence of forward units of Azerbaijani forces in such an area is another signal of the hard situation on the frontline for Armenian forces. While the Armenians have likely been able to repel the first Azerbaijani push towards the Lachin corridor, near the border with Armenia, the advancing Azerbaijani troops are still a major problem for the defenders of Karabakh on other parts of the frontline.
The Defense Ministry of the Republic of Artsakh confirmed clashes south of Shusha saying that Armenian units have been working to eliminate enemy sabotage groups. This official version of events sounds at least concerning for the defenders of the city. Independent Armenian sources report intense fighting between Armenian and Azerbaijani forces south of the town. If the Armenians lose Shusha, this will mean that Azerbaijani forces are at the gates of the Nagorno-Karabakh capital.
Meanwhile, the Armenian Defense Ministry released its own map of the situation on the frontline. According to it, the Azerbaijani military is still far away from Shusha. Furthermore, it shows that Hadrut still mysteriously remains in the hands of Armenians forces. At the same time, the Armenian conter-attack on Qubdali that forced the Azerbaijani military to withdraw from the town turning it into a gray zone was underreported. The Armenians also denied the shooting down of two of its Su-25 warplanes claimed by the Azerbaijani military. According to Azerbaijan these warplanes “attempted to inflict airstrikes on the positions of the Azerbaijani Army in the Qubadli direction of the front” and were shot down. No visual evidence to confirm the shooting down of the Su-25s has been provided so far.
On the other hand, the Azerbaijani side released a series of videos showing successful strikes on Armenian forces in the contested region. The strikes seen in the videos targeted more than 27 posts and gatherings of Armenian troops as well as the following equipment: 5 D-20 howitzers, a D-30 howitzer, 2 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled howitzers, a BM-21 multiple rocket launcher, 2 trucks, a SUV, a P-18 Radar and a Communication center. Most of the strikes seen in the videos were carried out with Turkish-made Bayraktar TB2 combat drones. The rest were apparently carried out with precision-guided rockets, like the Israeli-made ACCULAR and EXTRA, which are known to be in service with the Azerbaijani military.
By the end of October, the Turkish-Azerbaijani bloc has surely seized the strategic initiative in the conflict and overcome Armenian attempts to recapture it. Now, Baku with help from its Turkish allies are planning to deliver the devastating blow to the Armenian defenders of Karabakh. At the same time, the leadership of Armenia is still playing diplomatic games and not hurrying up to send its regular troops to assist the self-proclaimed Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh.
” At the same time, the leadership of Armenia is still playing diplomatic games and not hurrying up to send its regular troops to assist the self-proclaimed Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh”. The unfortunate impression is that the pro-Western leadership of Armenia is prepared to cede Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan, and this under Western pressure. Of course, I could be wrong. We shall see what the next days bring.
What do you mean by pressure of Western governments? What Russia did when Republic of Srpska Krajina fell? Nothing. Did they ever mention it afterwards? No. Who was The Milosevic family? Washington-Moscow and DB Yugoslav agents of influence, working against Serb interests. Where did the Milosevic family end up with billions of money stolen through Zagrebacka banka? In Moscow. Just to remind you. He couldn’t really go to London when he was at war with them, how it would look in front of the people. What do you think will be the solution for the Caucasus after the war? Mini-Schengen federation they are offering uson Balcan today where the great powers will decide again about all important points of our lives. You know why? Because we are allowing them while behaving like adolescents, so they pretend to be our parents..
djole
When the Republic of Srpska fell, Russia was run and almost destroyed by Boris Yeltsin. It was in no position to help. However, the Russia of today, run by President Putin, is a totally different matter. As for Milosevic, not even his worst political enemies accused him of embezzling billions, as that would be absurd. Please do not fabricate history. Захваљујем.
It was set up there by the Russian service in cooperation with international globalist power structures. You don’t think kgb agency disappeared all of a sudden. Same like Miloshevic and DB secret service who is running things till today in former Yugoslavia. They were doing business all the time of the war. Same as the Armenian leadership. People die for no reason, mothers wait for their children to return home, and everything is already agreed. They just need pretext. Do you remember entering Bihac twice and leaving the position twice after the DB of Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia agreed with the international services. Yeltsin was not brought in by force from the CIA or Mossad or MI6 or the BND, but in cooperation with the Russian service. In countries like Russia f.e., a coup cannot pass without internal support. Neither could the revolution. Today is no different, as much as you hoped. The secret services appoint people who suit them at a given moment. They are the real bosses of each country, deep states serving first globalistic structures. Ever since the Cromwell Revolution. I remember Putin driving George Bush in a golf car. The moves of the authorities in all and one country of the world, in addition to the US or France, including Russia, show every day who they are and who they are listening to. They do not have an independent and sovereign political decision. Even Iranian although we want to belive so. There are bosses at the top of the pyramid, all the so called governments are fighting for a place on the ladder of falling sh…..it below.
The leadership of Armenia will certainly not flee to America or Israel, even not to Russia, especially not to Turkey, but it could retire in France, for example. If they listen properly. They could learn school in the Balkans.
So called Republic Srpska Krajina
Why would Russia have to support Serbian territorial conquests and non-existing entity established by war crimes and ethnic cleansing of non-serbian people
That entity existed for 4 years in entire history and it was erased by action of Croatian military. Forever
In 1995 Russia and America offered to Serbs plan Z-4 with wide autonomy for Serbs in Croatia in two regions where they had some majority
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-4_Plan
Serbs refused and wanted to continue war and one big Muslim enclave in Bosnia was in danger to fall in Serbian hands and after Srebrenica nobody wanted even worse massacre … Russia realized that it was useless to talk to Serbs and left and America gave green light to Croatia to sort the problem out
So dear Serbs you can only blame yourselves for that
The same with Armenians. For years they refused any solution offered by Russia including Russian peacekeepers
And after bringing Pasinian to power I do not know what Armenians expected.
They also can only blame themselves
Bosnian Croat
Serbian territorial conquests ? What conquests are those ? The current Croat capital of Zagreb is derived from the Serbian town of Za Breg. Until 1941 the Serbs were a majority in Bosnia and Herzegovina. The genocide of the Second World War reduced the Serbian population to second place, the first place going to Muslims, who are now known by the laughable name of “Bosniaks”, as if Muslims can claim a historical right to Serbian Christian territories in Europe. In the Concentration Camp of Jasenovac a total of 709.000 Serbs were massacred. Dalmatians are all of Serbian origin, being converted to the Catholic faith by the Vatican. How do you explain the Serbian Orthodox Monastery of Krka in Dalmatia ? It is not the only one. In the 18th century there were no Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and this can be proved by Austrian maps from that period. Your user name is “Bosnian Croat”. In fact it should be “Converted Bosnian Serb”. The Vatican was busy in Bosnia and Herzegovina as well. In 1375 Bosnia and Herzegovina was united with Serbia, and this included 2/3 of Dalmatia.
As for the great Nikola Tesla, he was born in Military Krayina, and not in Croatia as some Croats are stipulating, as Croatia back then did not exist. His father was a Serbian Orthodox priest, while his mother the daughter of a Serbian Orthodox priest. He is therefore Serbian, and not Croatian, nor is he an Orthodox Croat, which is laughable. And finally, 60 % of ‘Croats’ are all of Serbian origin. The Croatian Prime Minister is called Zoran Milanović. How do you explain that both his name and surname are 100 % Serbian ? Mislim da to znaš.
As for Russia, back in the 1990’s it was ruled by Yeltsin, who mismanaged the country. Russia then could provide minimal assistance. As for Russia of today, it is ruled by Putin. In October of 2019 the Russian and Serbian military’s participated in a joint military exercise called “Slavic Shield 2019”, held in Serbia. The Russians brought with them the S-400 missile system, as well as the Pantsir missile system. NATO was shocked, unable to understand how the missile systems were brought into the country. After the exercise, the S-400 was returned to Russia. However, Putin stated that it can be returned to Serbia in a matter of hours. I think NATO got the message. As for the Pantsir, it stayed in Serbia, and It can shoot down any cruise missile fired at the country.
Bosnian Croat,
The Serbs did agree to Z4 plan. Milan Babic, the leader of the RSK reached the agreement with US Ambassador Galbraith in August 1995 with the belief that the Croats had accepted.
When Croatian leadership realised a diplomatic breakthrough had been made, they immediately launched military action, thus scuttling any possibility of a peaceful settlement.
Here is some background info about this plan (which was far from perfect btw)
https://rs-lat.sputniknews.com/analize/201508043705221/
Perhaps the Croats need to peddle factually incorrect “blame the victim” narrative in order to alleviate a guilty conscience for their war crimes?
This is off-topic – please take conversation to the MFC. Any further will be trashed. Mod.
Removed. As above this conversation is closed. Please take it to the MFC. Mod.
While this is indeed off-topic, as noted by mod, the relevance of Krajina Serb experience for Armenians of NK is indisputable. The zionist and catholic/Islamic clero-fascism is united against orthodox Christianity here and there. The lessons to be learned are obvious. I commend my Serbian brothers and sisters here for taking time to talk about this painful experience.
Zeljko,
Re similarities between NK and Serbian Krajina, I don’t really see that many simarities between the two apart from both being enclaves and therefore difficult to defend.
Anyways, I’ll be over at the cafe if you (or anyone else …Bosnian Croat?) Want to continue the discussion.
I would not be surprised if you are correct.
Since the US backed coup in Armenia I have feared what is happening now.
This is the result of the influence of the US diaspora on Armenia that thought it would have powerful allies in the West. All they ended up with is nothing but a subversive poison in Armenia leading it to disaster.
The US will be happy to get the NK issue out of the way to further it and Israel’s plans for Azerbaijan that target Iran.
Lol it’s not as simple. If the Armenian armed forces enter the conflict, it’s an escalation with unpredictable consequences, if and when it does it will most likely strike economic (oil) and military structures with it’s ballistic systems, then go in heavy into Azeri territories. The Karabakh army is doing a fine job at the moment containing the azeri army. Arial success does not mean ground troops are successful, as well (otherwise with 200K+ army with support from jihadists and turks would have been able to conquer karabakh by now). Removed. Mod. This is going to be a war of attrition.
“The Karabakh army is doing a fine job at the moment containing the azeri army.”
The Karabakh army is being annihilated by attrition by Ottoman drones.
“Arial (sic) success does not mean ground troops are successful, as well (otherwise with 200K+ army with support from jihadists and turks would have been able to conquer karabakh by now).”
They’re not fighting a blitzkrieg war, they’re slowly bludgeoning the Nagorno Karabakh forces to death by attrition. The total collapse of the latter is obvious from the fact that even the Armenian side now admits the Azeris are five kilometres from Shusha.
As always, it’s your opinion. You think that drones are some kind of god’s weapon that can wipe out all enemy soldiers. In fact, they can’t.
If they try for an attrition war, they’d have to wait for some time. According to earlier reports, Aliyev wishes for a quick victory, so what you say here isn’t correct.
what israel wants israel gets. so far thats a ring around iran. socotra and Azerbaijan are ideal candidates
No matter how they encroach Iran, they can’t invade and conquer them
Very very difficult for an isolated territory to withstand a seige by attrition……
What a wierd shootout. It appears that the war is a for gone conclusion. Air superiority has won the day. The air war has killed many obsolete pieces of war equipment. Is a manpad more expensive than a tank? Where are the manpads? I think they have SA 25 in Armenia. You can’t hit a prop drive drone with that? I thought that the airborne command and control could be targeted. What a strange shootout.
Yes, strange, isn’t it? After the US backed coup in Armenia the new president sacked military and intelligence staff to fill with those promoted by the US. Then for two years ignored the buildup that was being observed by the intel agencies of other nations.
The Armenian army can still save NK if moves in now. If it doesn’t and NK falls then there definitely was some secret deal between the US and the political leadership in Armenia to sacrifice NK.
The fix is in. They sacrifice tank crews that should have a SA 25 company attached to tank company. The rocket is cheaper than the tank and diesel. The crew is obviously worth nothing.
If this happens, and NK falls, will Pashinyan survive this politically?
He just continues the deal that was made long before him. He has not shown his hand yet.
Of course. He’ll just blame Russia. His colour revolution gang will support him in even more visible anti Russian protests. Amerikastani propaganda will seize on that to claim Russia is “occupying” Armenia. Armenia will then exit CSTO and Russia will have no option but to remove its base. And then the NATOisation of Armenia can proceed.
Well, not all Armenians are fools not to see how Pashinyan gave away NK. The fact is that you always find a way to put the blame on Russia and Putin. Armenians should have the balls to lay claim for the region and send their army in.
Pasinjan also allowed Americans to establish USA biology laboratory in Armenia.
And he was elected later by high majority of people.
No, Russia has no reason to go in conflict with Turkey and Azeris because of Armenians. They clearly do not deserve that.
Drones are actually fairly difficult to destroy with today’s equipment. WWII flak batteries and barrage balloons would have been more effective. Electronic jamming might work but only if the drones aren’t autonomous.
I predict a lot of countries are going to re invest in “obsolete” anti aircraft artillery.
Interesting point. I am surprised that the Armenians have not invested in anti aircraft guns and flak cannons. Cheap – easy to use and could cover ground units against low flying drones or attack aircraft – with no need for radar guided aiming. Just cover the sky with sweeping barrages by visual sighting.
I suspect that the Syrians neutralized the Turkish drones in Idlib with ww2 techniques a few months back.
I recall that during the second Iraqi invasion a substantial air defense system in Baghdad was in place – with anti aircraft and flak cannons – that kept the US from using low flying aircraft and drones within the city.
No actually, what is needed to counter drones is some good electronic jamming even if they’re manned from afar.
Nagorno Karabakh is finished. Russia isn’t going to come to bail Armenia out and the Armenian regime isn’t going to commit its own military to battle. The best thing the Nagorno Karabakh “government” could do at this stage is negotiate a conditional surrender that guarantees the safety of those Armenians who choose to remain, a limited autonomy for Nagorno Karabakh, and international peacekeepers to ensure that those guarantees are kept. With every passing day a total collapse and unconditional surrender become more inevitable.
This might sound far-fetched, but the flare up between Azerbaijan and Armenia supposedly over Nagorno-Karabakh, really has nothing to that with either of them.
Iran is why all this is happening
Confused? Dont be.
Each time the Islamic Republic and its allies in the Resistance Axis score a victory the Zionists and their lackeys respond with something else.
Iran has thwarted the plans of the Zionists on multiple fronts; Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and Yemen and it has survived Trump’s “maximum pressure” of strangling sanctions and is now free of the UN arms embargo on conventional weapons.
The port “bombing” in Beirut, the Gulf collaborators being frog-marched into open agreements with Israel and Azerbaijan’s bid to seize Nagorno-Karabakh are all related, in that, rhey are all actions by the Zionists to counter the Islamic Republic.
Israel’s desire to dominate the region, cannot be realized, if Iran opposes it.
Azerbaijan is being pushed by Israel to seize Nagorno-Karabakh, because it will bring Israel closer to Iran.
This is what this is all about.
Iran knows what is happening however, and troops have been mobilized and dispatched to the area to greet the killers of Palestinian children with “hot led”.
Selah
Not far-fetched at all. Considering that the Turkish zionist whores are backing one side – there is little doubt that the so called war is yet another desperate attempt to contain Iran. The Syrian gamble has failed for the zionazis – so the next best option is to create a pointless conflict on the Iranian border and try to draw the Iranians in directly. I do not believe the Iranians will take the bait.
I don’t think it is far-fetched either. I think you are spot on.
And indeed this demonstrates Zionist desperation. Having pulled the same stunt in Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Lebanon, you would think they’d learn something. Frankly, I would say that in their utter desperation, the Zionists handed the aforementioned countries to Iran on a silver platter.
If we are to take a cue from history, then Azerbaijan and Armenia will probably fall into the Iranian sphere of influence soon. Someone has to bring peace eventually and pick up the pieces. Iran is seemingly the only player who wants stability in the region. It is not difficult to see why the war-torn nations gravitate towards Iran; because they want peace and stability too.
Also, I think people massively overestimate Turkey. Turkey is nothing, they are going to come out of all this as the biggest loser, in my opinion. When did a Zionist pawn ever emerge from one of their schemes anything but a loser?
I don’t think the Zionist regime will bring the Palestinian baby killer brigades close to the Iranian border. I think the Zionists know only too well how some of us here feel about them.
Whenever I think about the Zionists and what they do, I get this feeling that is hard to describe, like I am about to explode, like some stupendous wrath wants to come out of me and devour them all; the wrath of God, for lack of a better term. I know that many of my brothers in arms experience the same thing.
I know that during the 2006 Lebanon war, some of the Iranian forces that were taking part in the conflict exhibited this berserker rage, and I know that the Israeli soldiers who witnessed it and survived, still have PTSD and nightmares about it.
I know that my plea will probably fall on deaf ears, but I want to first beg the people of Israel to please leave and return to your own countries; the six million of you have been brought here for the holocaust. (Holocaust is a Jewish term for a sacrificial offering burned in fire. ) Please, I beg you, save yourselves.
And to the Zionist elite, I beg of you, please repent. There is still time to turn around and use your enormous power for good in the world. You can turn the world into a paradise if you only will it. You can still avert disaster. Please repent before it is too late.
Seems that Armenia is learning, a bit slow but still, it’s learning.
“Armenia’s prime minister calls for Russian peacekeepers to halt war in Nagorno Karabakh”
‘In an interview with the Telegraph, Nikol Pashinyan said that a neutral force of Russian troops was now the “optimal solution” to the conflict, which appears to be tilting decisively in Azerbaijan’s favour.’
https://news.yahoo.com/armenias-prime-minister-calls-russian-212222743.html
Sergei Lavrov proposed the same many months ago but it was rebuffed by Armenia. Taken at face value, Pashinyan’s gesture of accepting peacekeeping troops is too late now, and perhaps no longer doable as Azerbaijan is not keen on the idea — and N-K is internationally recognised as being part of Azerbaijan’s territory. Pashinyan has missed the boat, and whether he will still remain in power should N-K fall is an open question.
But having said that, it could get very ugly should N-K fall. It’s still not settled if N-K will fall but should it happen, I do hope RF — perhaps with Turkey — will be able to negotiate and secure de-escalation zones or humanitarian corridors ala Syria for the civilians’ sake.
Another lesson Pashinyan needs to learn is that, in the greater geopolitical scheme of things, Armenia is actually far less important than Azerbaijan is to the regional powers — Russia, Turkey, Iran and of course, the Invisible Man in this conflict, Israel.
If push comes to shove, these powers including Russia, will choose Azerbaijan; not necessarily to support but to concentrate their efforts on. Turkey and Israel will seek to consolidate their hold, Russia to bolster its presence, and Iran to reconcile differences or, if that fails, to subvert.
What of Armenia? It will be left mainly on its own, probably sans N-K. Russia will still maintain good relations — perhaps through gnashed teeth as long as Pashinyan is around — with its chastised post-Soviet sibling. RF will still provide strategic protection to Armenia via its brigade in the country — this is the one vital component in everyone who has plans for Armenia to think about very carefully.
Exactly what is the end game for Azerbaijan in this war? Is it to annex and rule a mountain enclave inhabited totally by a people with whom they perpetually feud? Or is it to ethnically cleanse the region of those people and ship them to Armenia? And what would be the purpose in doing so? To please Washington because it thinks that, by some commutative property, to injure Armenia is to wound Russia (as if that would ever be a legitimate reason conferring some advantage on America)? Or is it to please Turkey and boost its grand delusions of a restored Ottoman Empire in whose glory the Azerbaijanis would somehow share? This whole side of the equation makes no sense unless you have a 12th century mentality of imperial expansion by the sword.
On the NK side of the issue the stakes seem more dire: drive back the self-described Islamic alliance of Turkey and Azerbaijan or cease to exist as a polity and maybe as a people. It’s a delusion to think that Russia would or even should risk igniting the powder keg that is the entire Caucasus by taking military action against yet another bellicose people sharing a border with it. Washington just loves the trouble it creates for Putin in places like the Ukraine, the Balkans and the Caucasus by agitating and arming the resident hot heads, so that will never stop until the American Empire collapses. Maybe it will be a good thing if the plutocrats’ and media’s choice for president, Joe Biden, who like a fool seems champing at the bit to strike Russia, miscalculates grievously once in office and hastens that collapse. The year 2021 may accelerate the “interesting times” that the entirety of 2020 has proven to be, if you can stretch your imagination even further.
I think it has dual purposes, but not for the Azeris. In fact, they’ve been made pawns and lured into war. The US wants to contain Russia and Israel wants to encroach Iran. They do this by their crony Turkey. Azeris win the war> Turkish military gets a foothold in Azerbaijan probably in the future and Israel wins an ally in the Caucasus that borders Iran.
I think I get the picture now. Azerbaijan has Russia by the balls and Israel is controlling Baku via Erdogan and the high tech weapons they have been providing Azerbaijan knowing full well it would be used against the Armenians. The US is falling apart (just like it’s brokered cease fire) so what it could do (even if it earnestly wanted to end the conflict) it cannot. This appears to me to be a Zionist run dog and pony show with the Turks being the dogs on Tel Aviv’s leash. Using their Turkish dogs and their Azeri clients the Zionists are using this conflict to encircle Iran and gain a highway to Russia by which to send Wahhabi brigades like they did recently to Syria (via Turkey). Armenians are being sacrificed by the Zionists so they can use Azerbaijan to keep both Russia and Iran in check. Erdogan is just Netanyahu’s dog on a Zionist leash.
This war is greenlighted by all sides (Russia, USA, EU, China). The war is physically blocking the route to Europe via the Caucuses. This winter and next year will be brutal for oil and non-producing economies (whole of ME except Iran) so the general pop will try to migrate. The lockdowns are preventing the legal move of people and the war in the caucuses will physically block the migration, the Russians patrolling the west/north Syrian border will cut the other way to Europe.
https://www.syrianews.cc/russia-and-turkey-has-putin-lost-patience/
Food for thought…..bigger picture… Syria…Armenia etc etc
For me…what does Russian people and politicians now think of Turkish Russian relationship….were some quite loud concerns and grumbles a few weeks ago….has that waxed or wained? Happy that more decisive action has been taken in Idlib…or a wish that the Syrian situation should actually be finally finished with and “settled”….? Situation seems to be on a knife edge re Armenia and Azerbaijan….with the latter using cluster bombs…phosphorous…attacking civilians…use of drones.seems rather reminiscent of Ukraine behaviour on Donbass….maybe Erdogan has been learning a lesson or two from his buddies there in Ukraine. And how long did Donbass have to fight back before some kind of ceasefire became allegedly “effective”….and situation there could quite easily could deteriorate again maybe?
Donetsk, Oct 30 – DAN. Ukrainian forces violated the Additional Measures to Strengthen the Ceasefire 12 times over the past week, said DPR People’s Militia deputy chief-of-staff Eduard Basurin. “Ukrainian fighters violated the Additional Measures to Strengthen the Ceasefire 12 times over the past week,” he said. Dzerzhinskoe, Naberezhnoe, Grigorovka, Kominternovo and Leninskoe in the south of the country; Dolomitnoye and Zheleznaya Balka in Gorlovka; Yasinovataya, as well as Spartak, Staromikhaylovka and Mineralnoye, located on the outskirts of Donetsk, were targeted. Earlier, a DPR serviceman was killed outside Naberezhnoye by an explosive device dropped by a drone. A Grigorovka civilian was injured in a mine blast. The Additional Measures to Strengthen the Ceasefire were signed at the Contact Group meeting on July 22 to reinforce and control the indefinite ceasefire in effect since July 21, 2019, the latest in the series of more than 20 reconfirmation and announcements of the “silence regime”. The package came into effect on July 27. *ot