We are apparently living through “panic times”: first, we just had the “ Pentagon wants to nuke Russia ” canard and second, now we have the “Novorussians recognize Crimea as part of the Ukraine” panic. Here is what actually happened:
The website of the Lugansk Information Center has just posted the official proposals of the Lugansk People’s Republic on how to amend the Ukrainian Constitution as, indeed, they were supposed to do under M2A. I am trying to get that text translated, but the offending passage is this:
Article 133. The system of administrative-territorial structure of Ukraine includes: The Autonomous Republic of Crimea, some regions with special status in Donetsk and Lugansk regions, provinces, districts, cities, districts in cities, towns and villages.
Ukraine is composed of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, some regions with special status in Donetsk and Lugansk regions, Vinnytsia, Volyn, Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Zhytomyr, Transcarpathian, Zaporizhia, Ivano-Frankivsk, Kyiv, Kirovohrad, Luhansk, Lviv, Mykolaiv, Odesa, Poltava , Rivne, Sumy, Ternopil, Kharkiv, Kherson, Khmelnytsky, Cherkasy, Chernivtsi, Chernihiv regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol.
Cities of Kiev and Sevastopol, some areas with a special status of Donetsk and Lugansk regions have a special status, which is determined by the laws of Ukraine.
In fact, what this means is that the LNR (and, possibly, the DNR) agree that Crimea is a part of the Ukraine.
Is that a big deal or not?
To answer that question, ask yourself two simple questions:
1) are the LNR/DNR competent to decide of the status of Crimea?
2) if this language is accepted in the new Constitution, will that make a difference for Crimea?
The obvious answer to both of these is, of course, a resounding “no”.
The folks in Novorussia can write and even solemnly declare whatever the hell they want – Crimea is part of Russia and this will never *ever* be negotiated by any Russian government. Whether the LNR/DNR agree or not, or whether the Ukraine accepts that or not, and even if the entire planet disagrees with it, this is a done deal. The status of Crimea is decided by 3 things:
1) The Russian people
2) The Russian Constitution
3) The Russian armed forces
So there is no reason to panic this time either, as these proposed amendments mean exactly *zero*.
However, this still begs the question of what the folks who drafted these documents were smoking. My guess is that they wanted to make their proposals as “Ukro-compatible” as possible, you know – show some good will on the cheap. If that was the idea, then this is both naive and very inept. Not only did this result in yet another unwarranted panic, but it will just serve the Ukronazi propaganda (the Russian pro-US press is already making headlines with this).
Now, maybe I am not fair, but I am getting increasingly aggravated by the LNR and what I see at the very best as the “incompetence” of the LNR authorities. I don’t know if the DNR supports these proposals, but I sure hope that Zakharchenko will distance himself from this nonsense.
For whatever it’s worth – I personally don’t believe that the Ukraine can survive as it is, between its current borders, even without Novorussia and Crimea. My personal feeling is that the Ukraine as a project has already “tanked” and that all what is left is a long, painful and bloody agony. I am certain that Crimea and the Donbass are gone, forever. But I also believe that Odessa, Nikolaev, Mariupol will be gone next. And then much of the territory East of the Dniepr. There are also tensions in Lvov and the western Ukraine. The US and its Ukronazi allies have tried to turn the Ukraine into a kind of “Banderastan” and now this entire project is collapsing on itself, really, and Russia and Novorussia have very little influence over this disintegrative process.
So, friends, please don’t panic. This is yet another non-event and yet another sign that the internal politics of the Donbass are still a most disappointing mess.
The Saker
Sorry but if this was written that way it means it was rubber-stamped by Putin at Minsk 2.
Remember that all Hollande and Merkel talked about at Minsk 2 was “territorial integrity” of the Ukraine. And they have stated many times that means a Ukraine that includes Crimea.
No wonder Mozgovoi was eliminated and Strelkov sidelined.
Obviously. My thoughts too.
When just three days ago at “G7” Merkel spoke all of a sudden about Crimea, it was somewhat of a surprise, for we had thought the West had reconciled itself with it becoming part of Russia. In retrospect, now we see it should not have been a surprise.
( http://novorossia.today/russia-s-participation-in-g7-not-possible-without-return-of-crimea-to-ukraine-merkel/ )
How true this is.
It was a big surprise indeed.
I also heard a couple of weeks ago that the West/Merkel and Hollande had accepted that Crimea is Russian. Period. No questions asked about this anymore.
And now suddenly this?
This stinks whatever said not to mention this.
Do never do this with Crooks and Liers from the West you are dealing with, as a matter of “show some goodness”? For what, for a couple of 50kg bags with USDollars for this joke?
I am in shock now. All for nothing? Never. Crimea is and remains Russian. The people themselves decided. Period.
What do you expect? Putin is a cog in the best organised elite show in history.
Nothing was written any way. It’s the dog that didn’t bark in the night.
LPR did not propose an amendment to the Constitution of Ukraine deleting Crimea from the list of its constituent parts.
The outcry is about the non-proposal of such an amendment.
While the elephant in the room is that – Novorussia is gone. You may be right: this “Crimea” thing may be just a Put-Put smokescreen so you forget about the elephant.
Good work, Cassandra. Exactly right.
Cassandra, can you show us where to find this in writing on the Internet?
Thanks.
Exacly Cassandra. That’s how I read it too. LPR, correctly claiming “no competence”, only submited the modifications in what regards itself, left however the text was in regards to Crimea.
Well, this is good, firstly, LPR and DPR are suppose to become regions inside Ukraine, so they have no control over Ukraine foreign policy, so really it is irrelevant, secondly USA will never allow DPR and LPR to reintegrate into Ukraine, so it is good for DPR and LPR to be a accommodating as possible, then once the war restart they can say “We did everything we could, but the pro-USA oligarchy just wanted war.”
Saker- do you have info regard explosion of large oil tanks in area of Kyiv, please…
copied from other thread — off topic but HUGE fire near KIEV — fuel depot explosion —
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11661629/Gigantic-explosion-at-fuel-depot-near-Kiev-kills-several-firefighters.html
good video of explosion in this article — fire started in one storage tank a day ago, and it spread. Airfield with ammunition dump across the street, took them a day to secure that. Sabotage suspected, but by “business competitors” or Kiev, for a change…..
Not to be left out, Estonia arranged a rare metals factory chemical fire also on Tuesday, this one apparently the result of careless welding….
http://rt.com/news/266077-estonia-fire-plant-toxic/
The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire!…
sejmon, Yats eliminated safety inspections everywhere for budgetary reasons, and furloughed all inspectors. It’s also possible someone was trying to siphon fuel.
And do you know about the situation at the moment with the fires near the nuclear plants Chernobyl?
Any news about it?
thanks Saker.
Dear The Saker,
I have just read this and frankly as you say – who are the LNR to decide what the status of Crimea is anyway? It is Russia and there is nothing the Junta (which is collapsing) can do about it.
If the LNR thought it would currey favour with the Junta/US/EU – to get their special status – as you say very naive and frankly weak. Just feeding more divisions. Who drafted this?
I also hope Zakharchenko distances himself too.
Rgds,
Veritas
I’ve read this “junta is collapsing” meme on this website for over a year.
Add that to about 10 years of “U.S. is collapsing”…
Be patient Putin plays chess.Pindostan will out of Moskow Putin will stil think the new chess move and Lavrov will still bla-bla -bla with this after sex happy smiling every time when meet with partners .
I well recall the infinite praises the Western media was bestowing upon Gorbachov’s charm in the 1980-s. It turns out Putin is charming too, isn’t he?…
Is no the same Putin like was one year before .Its like to happen a coup in Kremlin after repatriation of Crimea.For me the most fatal mistake the Duma recall the law that Russia army has permission to attempting abroad and the departure of russian troops from borders which give the green light to Kiev Junta to genocide Donbass population.
Raskolnikova in today’s sitrep has given some more information:
In LPR explained the presence of the Crimea in the draft amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine
The amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine concerning the presence or absence in its composition of Crimea is not the responsibility of the LPR
“This is not our competence to amend the Constitution of Ukraine concerning the presence or absence in its composition of Crimea. We are exactly in the framework of the Minsk agreements. In the Minsk agreements there are no words about Crimea. We do not have the authority to any change concerning Crimea to amend the Constitution of Ukraine — we (authorities — ed.) cannot be in principle,” said Danego.
“The special order of self-government for LPR and DPR temporary. Most likely, this is done in order to consolidate its sovereignty on a regular basis. But the calculation is not to amend the Constitution, and to give a signal to other regions.”
http://ukraina.ru/news/20150609/1013320553.html
Fair point.
I agree that the ultimate effect of these words on the eventual outcome will be exactly zero. On the other hand, such statements will make it harder for Kiev and the West to continue claiming that Moscow is calling all the shots in the Donbass. It’s probably be just another clever ruse, like most of Minsk-2.
Exactly, the way I see it.
LPR and DPR Contact Group worked this one out (certainly with Moscow input). It is just another step in the negotiations, ie to push Kiev who is doing nothing and won’t even talk. It also aims to stop Kiev firing the PMs .
machine translation of https://news.mail.ru/politics/22292249/?idc=1
The authorities of the self-proclaimed Donetsk (DPR) and Luhansk (LPR) People’s Republic addressed a sub-working group on political issues of Minsk Contact Group about new proposals for changes in the Constitution of Ukraine. Among other things, the document proposes to fix that “certain areas with special status (DPR territory LPR.- and their associations are an integral part of Ukraine.”
The fact that the authorities of the DPR and the LPR developed a package of amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine, was learned from the joint statement of plenipotentiaries “people’s republic” in Minsk contact group, Denis Pushilin and Vladislav Dane. At the first stage the changes were discussed with representatives of public organizations in DPR and LPR. They were then handed over to the interim coordinator of the working group on political issues of the OSCE Pierre Morel.
The text of the document draft is recorde as: : “Some areas of special status or their associations are an integral part of Ukraine and within the powers defined by the Constitution, special laws of Ukraine, as well as agreements on the delimitation of powers between these areas, their associations and the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine, ministries and other central executive authorities are free to decide issues related to their jurisdiction. ”
Thus, the DPRI and LPR finally took the point of view of Moscow: the Russian authorities earlier (in particular, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov) has repeatedly stated that “people’s republic” should remain a part of Ukraine.
In addition, the draft amendments proposed to fix on the legislative level, the preservation of the heads of the DPR and the LPR Alexander Zakharchenko and Igor Plotnitski in their posts “”Senior officials in charge of the executive branch, acting on the territory of individual regions of Donetsk and Lugansk regions of the date of adoption of these amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine, will continue to exercise their powers until the termination of the powers in accordance with the procedure established by the acts of individual regions with special status in Donetsk and Lugansk regions”
This means termination of their powers depends ENTIRELY on their own republics under their own rules, ie Kiev cannot fire them or declare them illegitimate as rulers.
The proposals will be discussed at the next meeting of the working group on political issues, as well as, perhaps, at a meeting of Normandy Quartet (which should take place in Paris on 10 June at the level of political directors or deputy foreign ministers.)
Reactions to the new proposals have not yet been received from Kiev.
DPR/LPR and Kiev continue to live in parallel worlds without really talking to each other (same applies to the Russian Government and opposition by the way).
On 17.3.15 Rada adopted changes in special governance law, which is to start after special elections based on laws of Ukraine. –LDPR wants to decide this themselves and keep Zakharchenko and Plotniskii.
They also want to decide all other issues themselves (essentially independence, though considered part of Ukraine). While Ukrainian special governance law, 16.9.14, gives them to decide on language, but the rest needs to be based on laws of Ukraine (so does not look like independence).
While all this non-talking continues (forever?), Russia is going to be blamed and sanctioned for all this.
http://zakon2.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/256-19
http://zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/1680-18
The trouble with the Ukrainian Law is that the junta decides “legality” of elections. We’ve seen their version of “legality”,so that’s a no-go to start with.There is also no guarantee of the language rights issue.And as was seen by Crimea in the past,the Rada can decide to “change their mind” whenever they want to.So until there are ironclad guarantee’s in place nothing will change.
Agreed that Ukraine is finished. I think Russia’s primary worry in the mad, insane, vicious cabal in Washington. They are out of control and Russia worries about their irrational actions that could lead to all out war. Everyone knows that the empire is collapsing. We can only hope that it does so peacefully, like the Soviet Union did. Russia treats the US like a three year old with a tantrum. Near the end Rome had some pretty bizarre Emperors too. Becoming stupid and insane seems to be one of the benefits of possessing an empire.
Remember that the people you see on TV, etc are not the decision-makers, but only their puppets. Their technique has always been the Hegelian dialectic. It’s a play. We are looing at the conflict phase. They have several versions of their preferred resolution ready.
We must look ahead to that resolution the financial and political NWO) and derail it now. What our attention is being drawn to– as if we were children– is not the main event.
I hear this all the time.So can anyone here actually name who the real rulers are? I mean their actual human names.Saying the “deep state,or the 1%,etc,doesn’t “cut the mustard”.I’d like to have actual names,and faces to put to those names.Using “cryptic” terms only enhances the claims of our enemies about “conspiracy theorists”.At least in Ukraine we can see our enemies and name them with little difficulty.As long as we’ve talked about them in the West we should be able to do the same.
Dear Uncle Bob…there are ‘secret societies’ that are making the decisions…either in England or USA.. Rotheschilds are in…Queen of England probably….and then…there is an ‘outer circle’
Read the book “The Anglo-American Establishment” for an idea of how its working…
These secret societies have been around since about 1850’s,….
They still have names.And if after all these years we still can’t name them (and show proof) then we have a serious credibility problem with the mass population.If we say the “Rothschild’s” or “Rockefeller’s” that doesn’t do it.The Rothschild’s for one are made up of several clans.We should be able to say Mr….. did this.And Mr…… did that.In just a few weeks several writers were able to uncover the Ukraine maidan and coup plot,and name the names of those involved.And how they plotted it,funded it,and pulled it off.We should be able to do the same with the villains we talk about constantly.Hell,I’d be happy if we could just pick one country among the many and name their “deep state” controllers.You see,I do believe there are some behind the scenes actors that have a great deal of influence in the world,causing a lot of problems.Though I’m not convinced they are alone in causing our problems.And have as much influence as we may think.And it would be a good thing for us to dissect these groups and see exactly who they are.And what they are doing.We can’t influence events,and our peoples,if we can’t even point to concrete examples of who is oppressing us.And no,saying Zionists isn’t enough either.Those people have names as well.And I don’t buy the “theory” of all Jews being in a worldwide conspiracy,as some do.There are a great many “Christian Zionists” as well.And there are Jewish groups that oppose the very idea of an Israel and support the Palestinians (my pro-Palestinian position showed me those).
Very true, mate.
Do you know my name? So how do you think we know the names of the most well-guarded? …
Uncle Bob,
do you know the names of the guys that bombed the twin towers or took out WTC7?
Do you think you’ll ever know?
Read “the controversy of Zion”, by Douglas Reed. He names names and sources his evidence. Wriiten in the early 50’s and available online as a pdf it lays it all out for you. The neat thing about it is that the bullets he fired in 1950 hit today’s targets dead centre.
http://www.controversyofzion.info/
eagle eye
As I’ve mentioned before.I am very pro-Palestinian.And I believe that Israel is/was a tragedy for both the Palestinian and the Jewish peoples.But I’m not anti-Jewish,I don’t see some “Jewish conspiracy” to rule the World.I see a group of criminal zealots,both Jewish and Christian that came up with the insane idea of founding a modern, nationalist, racist, state in ancient Palestine.And have used every vile trick in the book to do it.They are even willing to destroy the ME and the World,rather than see their ideas fail.But they are not just a Jewish problem.But a Christian and Muslim one as well.The Jewish ones are mostly non-religious Jews,using Judaism as a cover for a semi-fascist nationalism.And in league with “religious”,as well as idiotic Christians.Who are hoping to use them to bring on a “end of the World” scenario.Aided by a few also idiotic Muslims hoping to gain their version of a “pure Islam” off of them.The most ironic thing is all three groups are hoping to “use” each other for their own purposes.The Jewish Zionists,for their nationalist dreamworld.The Christian Zionists to bring on a return of the Messiah (which would bring a destruction of Jews,how crazy is that that Jewish Zionists work with them.But not being religious they don’t believe in that.) .And the Muslim Princes to destroy non-Wahhabi Islam and replace it with their brand.
@Anonymous on June 10, 2015 · at 1:14 pm
Exactly! thanks so much. I have all of his pdf’s. He outlined exactly what we can expect even back then. He participated in both WW’s. Writes objectively everything that he witnessed. He even visited America and that book is also very accurate.
Christine
Yes, fair points Uncle Bob. It begs the question “who really IS in charge?” I think it’s clear that there are powerful forces behind the scenes, out of sight, but probably not some all-powerful star chamber type organization; it’s maybe like the combination of Wall St/London banks, military-industrial complex heads, think-tanks, corporations, intel agencies, and politicians- along with some very powerful individuals and families- and also consider that a lot of those people have hands in multiple parts of the whole- all these constituent parts make up some kind of synergistic amorphous blob which has taken on a life of its own, within which there are internecine squabbles but whose members suffer from group think and myopia (among other psychological issues) so that with the institutional inertia of this Zio-amorphous blob drives things almost subconsciously, and maybe not even these people themselves really knows who’s “in charge”… but, all having the same goal of world domination with the US as the nominal head, it just SEEMS like there must be some small group passing decrees. Maybe it’s just capitalism. Does any of this make sense? I feel like there’s a word for the concept I’m trying to describe that I’m missing. This thought just came to me for the most part. It’s early and my brain is still half asleep. But I’m glad you brought up those points Uncle Bob, great good for thought.
Dont blame Novorossija .This is the total failure of russia policy in Ucrania. Sergey Lavrov-Vlav Sourcov -foreign policy is catastrofic for Russia interest. The Emperor’s New Clothes.
We have a completely opaque foreign policy. We don’t know what actually wants the President and the Kremlin. We are constantly on Ukraine political conduct secretive special operation instead of clearly and openly show their position. The Russian elite continues to play along with the Kiev regime, sometimes taking strange decisions. Like the cheap gas.
Similar collapse of trust in Russia happening over at Fort Russ on this same story. If you don’t mind, I’ll just re-post here what I posted over there – it explains this whole business:
This is the Russian success story in Ucrania
a.More than 8 thousands innocent compatriots in Donbass (After Duma recall the law that Russia army has permission to attempting abroad)for first time in Russia history without reaction from Kremlin
b,Kiev de facto in NATO with 800 official and thousands unofficial troops and CIA agents.
c.NATO ready to put atom missiles in w.Ucrania and to make to naval bases to Odessa and Marioupol to sandwiching Crimea.Russia army stations in Crimea without lebensraum is nothing
d.Very strange assasination of NAF leaders Evgeny Ishchenko.,Alexandr Bednov,and Mozgovoi not found out the murders
d.Kemlin support Junta with discount price gas ,coal and electricity.
e.No one from wanted Nazi like fx Dmitri Yarosh has arrest
f The truce Minsk 1 AND Minsk 2 in time when NAF marching victorious
g.The darkness role of Vlad Sourkov who reminds ,Boris Berezovsky .and Rasputin.
Can you explain to us the succes story ,in Russia foreign policy ,without illusion that Pindostan WILL collapse -Putin chess game and other dreams.
Byzantines … stop this crap once and for all, ppl get tired of that….or take guns and go to DNR,LPR
What’s crap about the FACTS he listed?
Quite right. People, as you’d guess from his name, he does not have English as his first language…. as many others here, too. Read it slowly and you can understand what he’s saying quite well. If you have no patience for it, just move on, don’t snap at him.
I see the name and skip over the posts. It’s like junk mail, spam, junk phone calls — just toss them as noise.
It seems this story is mostly just noise too — but it was a dumb move. Too much posturing and you end up with your back thrown out and a twisted knee. Most of Kiev and US/EU stuff is just junk and spam too now, and Russia should ignore it. When someone is passing the 7th floor in free fall on the way to sidewalk it doesn’t matter what they say.
Blue – I used to think you were a smart old dog.
Open your eyes.
Multi-polar Capitalism is not the kind of “friction to stop the machine” that is required.
“… Multi-polar Capitalism is not the kind of “friction to stop the machine” that is required. …”
That’s right. You hit the nail on the head.
What makes you think I support capitalism? Multipolar or not?
Yet there is a difference in stages of it, until it grows into full fascism, between still regulated and completely predatory. (early stage cancer vs late stage.) Multipolar is better than unipolar, however — more variables possible.
This all will ultimately depend on a mass of people waking up, educating themselves, and getting better organized, insisting on some kind of basic socialism in addition to common business (worker owned and run), and various leaders won’t be able to help much until they get massive popular support and get some ammunition to oppose plutocracy. This
advance guard’ stuff won’t hack it — it’ll just set up another oligarchy or authoritarian hierarchical structure. I think there will be a long way to go until the world gets straightened out with this — evolving cultural changes over many decades, maybe a few centuries even.
We went form feudalism where the lords owned means of production to capitalism where the capitalists owned it, or state capitalism where the state, run by oligarchs owned it, and most people still haven’t figured it out — or questioned the basis of ‘ownership’ and what it means and who gets to enforce it (people ought to read Henry George again — and learn the fundamentals of cybernetics and system analysis).
Right now Putin is moving the ball up the field but it’s a long way to goalpost, so to speak.
blue,
I think I remember you referring to:
“at least Russia does not invade other countries”
as support for the Russian position.
If indeed Russia is an independent (seems highly unlikely with investment worldwide by russian billionaires) Capitalist system run by Russian elites – why would (if they had the power of the Western Hegemony) it act in any less of a predatory fashion than those you despise (being the Western Hegemony, if you do despise them)?
What on earth is there to really admire about modern Russia? is early cancer all it has going for it?
Apologies, i’m not sure what your comment “Right now Putin is moving the ball up the field” means.
@blue
thanks. Henry George? sorry, got a title I can find?
TIA
Christine
Byzatines, I’ll answer just one. You said, “f The truce Minsk 1 AND Minsk 2 in time when NAF marching victorious.”
Yes, Byzantines– that circumstance is the only time you can force the other side to accept a truce.
All of your other points have been answered mamy times in the past few months.
Grieved..yes.. I don’t think they’re ‘trolls’ but ‘hurray patriots’ in Saker’s term.
I commented over at FortRuss where I saw this earlier.
I agree with Saker. And looking hard at the internal politics you might see what Putin saw from the get go, that is there is not a huge majority support, the militia represents the heart but not the mass of people, that a minority fights, and the place is crawling with criminals and Donbass is the mat upon which oligarchs fight and kill for their riches.
In the long view of the matter of Ukraine, Russia will have to control it. Devise your own scheme of how that happens, but it will happen. Everyone in the West understands that and abhors it. Thus, they have a free hand to condemn Putin and hurt Russia. Nothing more they can do.
Meanwhile, Minsk 2 is the game. It is an irreconcilable trap for Ukraine. They have to win the war to get out of it. The US is desperately trying all it can to free them from the snare. The border is in Putin’s hands, and Donbass is lost.
Whatever the psy-ops and propaganda and bloviating from Brussels and the gaseous Generals and State Dept, Minsk 2 is the only path for Kiev.
West threat with sanctions to the russian elit who have interest in West special in city of London invest in real estate ,shares on exchanges in west companys and deposits in foreign banks was successful .These oligarchs have influence in Kremlin and this explain the 180 degrees in Russian foreign policy from former Jeltsins Ambassador in UN Sergey Lavrov and ex Jeltsins advisor Vlad Sourkov.Unfortunately Russia has no cure from 90nints cancer.This is the true which the Kremlin propaganda machine try to hide.
True.
The Russian Capatilist system is just like all the others – money talks.
Thinking otherwise is the height of naivety.
“… The Russian Capatilist system is just like all the others …”
Exactly.
“The status of Crimea is decided by 3 things:
1) The Russian people
2) The Russian Constitution
3) The Russian armed forces”
Apologies for the nitpicking, but shouldn’t the primary item here be this:
1) The people of Crimea
We all know how the people of Crimea have voted last year, so I’m not trying to question the status of Crimea.
Obviously I include the people of Crimea in the first group.
Cheers,
The Saker
That’s fine, but there are many more Russians than there are people in Crimea, and in principle the totality of Russians may have a very different opinion from the Crimeans alone. So your 1) is not the same as my 1)…
there are many more Russians than there are people in Crimea
Correct. And Crimea belongs to all of them. Not just those living there now.
…and following the same logic – all countries having Russian population, should become part of Russia, as that land dont belong only to the people living there, but also to the rest of Russians? Russan armed forces will decide the borders of the countries? Really? There is need for more Lebensraum?
I think it would depend how they got to be the population. You can’t move 100,000 Russians into a town and in 10 years demand it as part of Russia. But of course Crimea was Russian for so long, until Kruschev gave it to Ukraine to avoid it being seized for debts Russia didn’t want to pay back.
In a case like Puerto Rico, below, where a place was a colony, the original locals “own” the place, I think. They have more rights than more recent colonising arrivals, who would usually become minorities if independence is gained. They need to be fair to these, as the current ones had no choice and have nowhere else to go; it IS their home. The WW2 idea of forcing millions to move, to a strange land that their great grand parents came from, is ridiculous and unfair to everyone.
PR fails the 3-point test though, as they don’t have the Constitution one; plus USA doesn’t want them, ie happy with them as the slaves they are now.
…and following the same logic
That kind of intro usually is followed by nonsense. Like here. “all other countries” are not included in the Russian constitution or protected by the Russian military. As for the Russian people – they have no need for these “other countries”.
You get D- for this rather lame trolling attempt.
The Saker
PS: and, dude, Russia does not need more “Lebensraum”. It got more than enough. The lack of Lebensraum is a western imperialist problem, not a Russian one…
Let me make one more comparison, and then I’ll shut up ;)
In order to see how consistent and rational your opinions are, it often helps to take some statement and replace some names by others and see how you react to them. So, here’s some of the Saker’s statement with some names exchanged:
The status of Puerto Rico is decided by 3 things:
1) The American people
2) The American Constitution
3) The American armed forces
If you agree with the Saker’s statement but disagree with this one, then you should ask yourself why.
Hawaii would be more fitting
In order to see how consistent and rational your opinions are, it often helps to take some statement and replace some names by others and see how you react to them.
I wonder if you realize how stupid that statement is, in logical terms, that is. What you are saying is this: to test A on B apply A to C and if that fails, then you have disproved A.
Let me make one more comparison, and then I’ll shut up ;)
You did.
now do.
:-P
The Saker
Puerto Rico is not liable to be reclaimed by Spain, however, nor did they recently vote overwhelmingly and thereby become a republic/state of the US as Crimea did regarding the Russian federation. If after the vote for statehood, by the wikipedia article, it was accepted as a state, and then Spain or Panama was talking about it being reclaimed by Spain, then that would be a closer analogy to Crimea.
Analogies are good for illustration but never for proof, since they are never perfect. Puerto Rico has a separatist movement, and a history very different from Crimea’s.
It always seems so incredible when I hear Merkel or some other blah-blah come out against the “annexation” of Crimea. If there were any decent reporters present, they wd long-since have asked her whether she is advocating the overturning of the vote of 97.3% of the population. I mean someone should ask her publicly whether she really thinks her preference is more important than theirs.
Penny,
what a wonderful idea
pity it wont happen soon
Putin will do what he always does – he may drag his feet but he give Nato what Nato wants.
@ Paul
In fact, that eloquent official mouthpiece Peter Levelle reminded us during a recent “CrossTalks” show that a decade or so back Russia in fact wanted to join (!) NATO, but that its desire was not well received… Perhaps Mr. Putin has never given up on it? And Crimea is just an ace in the deck, for temporary use, as an admission ticket.
@Paul, @anonymous,
I am not stunned by your ignorance, but you shameless display of it.
Though, when a fool, joined by an anonymous fool, combine, it becomes comical.
Crimea is a strategic piece of property. When you grow up and learn to read, you will discover what the word strategic means.
@ Mats You are quite right, if Russia is finally allowed to become a NATO member, that strategic piece of property will become a joint strategic piece of property, that’s what being a NATO member entails, so everyone will be happy.
[I strongly disagree.]
Russia wants the NATO criminal organization torn asunder. They would never join.
Crimea is a Russian naval and air base for the foreseeable future—forever, in the short term.
Everybody. Let’s lighten up on the insults.
We are approaching the end of June and and EU summit about the extension of the sanctions.Obama and his vassals at the G7,forced G1/2/3/4(germany,france,uk,italy)to extend the sanctions(japan,canada and the US are not EU members).But 4 EU countries is not enough,even the big one.They need unanimity(28/28) which means that a even few countries(like Greece,Cyprus,Slovakia,Hungary etc)may be against?
Probably Putin still believe there is still a chance…he is dreaming.Don’t forget that the final decision about Greece will happen during the very same summit.
It is or a ruse or a big mistake on RF side.
Do not even count on Cyprus, Greece will be bribed/paid, Hungary probably will stand alone, Slovakian gvt. will shit in trousers…
and indeed, it is not worth it for the countries. Russia cannot take care of its allies, because as we see it cannot even take care of Russian people just over the border in Donbass.
Slovakia just announced a gas pipeline (more or less following the old South Stream route) just after a visit to Moscow. Even Bulgaria is in on that, who lost so badly by being forced into cancelling South Stream. Don’t forget Italy. Actually only takes ONE.
Maybe I’m wrong, but my memory is that NATO requires unanimity for nondefensive action, but that EU decisions are by “qualified majority”.
@ The Saker
“… they wanted to make their proposals as “Ukro-compatible” as possible, you know – show some good will …”
/vladimir-putin-interview-to-the-italian-newspaper-il-corriere-della-sera/#comment-111017
!!!…………
“For whatever it’s worth – I personally don’t believe that the Ukraine can survive in its current borders, even without Novorussia and Crimea. My personal feeling is that the Ukraine as a project has already “tanked” and that all what is left is a long, painful and bloody agony.”
But didn’t you predict, a few months ago, that Ukraine would totally collapse this summer. I realize summer hasn’t even officially started yet, and there’s three full months before it’s over – but it doesn’t look like Ukraine is going to collapse that soon, and maybe not at all.
But didn’t you predict, a few months ago, that Ukraine would totally collapse this summer.
Yes, and this is exactly what is taking place.
Somehow the generations following mine learned that it was a Bad Thing to consult original sources and I missed out on the reasoning.
Here’s the text, Constitution of Ukraine as amended by Orange Revolution, altered in 2010 and re-instated in 2014:
Article 133
The system of the administrative and territorial structure of Ukraine is composed of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, oblasts, districts, cities, city districts, settlements, and villages.
Ukraine is composed of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Vinnytsia Oblast, Volyn Oblast, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Donetsk Oblast, Zhytomyr Oblast, Zakarpattia Oblast, Zaporizhia Oblast, Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast, Kyiv Oblast, Kirovohrad Oblast, Luhansk Oblast, Lviv Oblast, Mykolaiv Oblast, Odesa Oblast, Poltava Oblast, Rivne Oblast, Sumy Oblast, Ternopil Oblast, Kharkiv Oblast, Kherson Oblast, Khmelnytskyi Oblast, Cherkasy Oblast, Chernivtsi Oblast and Chernihiv Oblast, and the Cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol.
The Cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol have special status that is determined by the laws of Ukraine.
Chapter X: Autonomous Republic of Crimea
Article 134
The Autonomous Republic of Crimea is an inseparable constituent part of Ukraine and decides on the issues ascribed to its competence within the limits of authority determined by the Constitution of Ukraine.
=================== etc.
Here’s the job: Negotiate changes to the Constitution of Ukraine to recognize some mutually acceptable special status for Donetsk and Lugansk.
Here’s the proposal: amend the list of constituent parts of Ukraine to replace “oblasts” of Donetsk and Lugansk with a description recognizing their special status.
Here was NOT the job: revise everything in the Constitution of Ukraine that we don’t agree with.
Exactly – they were just taking the *existing text* and proposing an ammemendment to it, not asserting anything (one way or the other) about Crimea themselves. Much ado about nothing!
Minsk 2 date was set.
* UAF asked for humanitarian ceasefire for 2 days to bus out civilians from Debaltsevo.
* Turns out nobody was told there were buses to Donbass, not only to Kiev-held areas, so no civilians turned up
* Turns out 700 NATO “advisers” took those buses out instead (but NAF doesn’t fume a lot about it or scream betrayal)
* 3 days later Minsk2 is pushed through BUT NAF is given 2 more days to close up the cauldron before ceasefire starts, and they annihilate UAF.
Kiev blinked. And so Minsk2 was a capitulation document. Absolutely reads like one, but they are still in the denial phase about it.
Here is how they blinked:
Back channel message 1: RF is going to send serious help to NAF and .when NATO mercenaries are found (dead) to have been fighting not advising, not a darned thing you can do about the RF presence doing the same. There goes the whole hate Russia campaign and your owners will not be pleased.
Back channel message 2: RF troops will stay out if the NATO guys disappear. Agreed, arranged. Kiev laughing, terrorists helpless on their own, Kiev thinks they’ve won.
Come the day for Minsk, Kiev is looking pretty sick in Debaltsevo, then Putin insists on giving them 2 more days… and they wipe the floor with Kiev’s unassisted conscripts.
Minsk2 is a capitulation document. This government will never keep to it. The other governments (RF and republics) need time. They keep going to Minsk and keep demanding their way in the Contact Group meetings, keep writing and publishing suggested solutions, knowing they’ll keep getting refused.
They’re just trolling Poroshenko. The more they seem to be doing his job for him, the more he decrees laws to the opposite – the worse he ends up looking. YES bit by bit the world is noticing.
======================
The Kiev fuel tank farm fire is a genuine disaster. But a game changer.
They themselves are already blaming themselves (ie Yatsenuk for cancelling safety inspections). All potential saboteur groups are off the hook. All they can do is use it to beg more money… but they’ll have to actually spend it here. While the pensions and wages get further behind and the protests louder and stronger; until the police wages get behind too, and so they no longer hassle the protesters.
>* Turns out 700 NATO “advisers” took those buses out instead (but NAF doesn’t fume a lot about it or scream betrayal)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation
Kat Kan,
I have a simpler take on why Minsk-2 was a capitulation document. Opposition forces who were boxed in at Debaltsevo included military from Germany, France & US. Corpses included blacks, so clearly identified as US. Just as Givi had said, fully half were NATO forces.
If made public this wd have been tremendously embarassing and disruptive to the careers and govts involved, so a deal was struck, so Minsk-2 was signed AND “ratified” by the UN very speedily.
Joaquin Flores said in interview that there was video made of the surrendered forces and the dead & this may have been an additional enforcer. .
Kat Kan, I think our versions are compatible. I didn’t think about the “empty” buses. Do you KNOW they were used in this way? Do you have a source, or did you figure it out yourself?
The night when they stayed up all night I was quite certain Hollande, Merkel & the US were being forced by their troops at Debaltsevo. So I regarded Minsk-2 as a terrific accomplishment from the beginning and was surprised when others mocked it. So many seemed not to have understood its provisions.
NAF was getting close, the cauldron was closing. A local ceasefire was brokered, and here’s the giveaway, by OSCE, for the purpose of evacuating civilians. Both sides sent in fleets of buses. NAF buses accidentally found about 40 people, who all said they’d not been told of the evacuation plan.These were going to Donbass. The other side’s buses were going to Artemisk and further into Kiev territory. About 10 such people were interviewed there. The rest nobody ever saw. But next day someone, I think Zakharchenko but maybe it was Basurin, said the other buses were full, the NAF ones not, as people were not told they had a choice. At the same time a few pictures came up of military trucks in the convoy, a few black faces, another give-away. Following day when fighting resumed, Basurin said they were getting less opposition than expected, “as it seems a lot of troops had evacuated with the civilians”. (But no shock horror anger about this misuse of a white flag, not even embarrassed… like they already knew) .
What kind of troops was not stated, but they already spoke often of seeing/hearing foreigners at work there. On past experience with cauldrons Kiev would not call ceasefire to get their people out.
1: so this time why evacuate/run away? to save people — BUT they think NAF is easy to beat (no progress for months) so they must “know” they’d be facing RF troops.
2: the composition of their troops (ie NATO) will become obvious, which means they can no longer demonise Russia (which is the USA/NATO main aim).
3: so they cut a deal, “they evacuate their guys but RF stays out too”, they take their chances with conscripts against NAF, believing NAF will lose anyway.
4: the talks are dragged out (and an extra 2 days added to the start date) to LET NAF WIN ANYWAY — the conscripts demoralised by the mercenaries and “advisers” having bailed out.
I started with the buses and figured out the deals from that. The other troops evacuating in a civilian humanitarian ceasefire is known fact. Only reason to move out troops, with a huge battle looming, is if they are people who cannot be seen there….and you expect them to die there, which means you’re expecting a bigger enemy than NAF. Only way you’d feel safe pulling them out is if the other side also won’t be bringing strong “friends”. Only way to be sure of that is with a deal. Which is why NAF played along with the civilian bus convoy charade (gaining themselves a weaker enemy into the bargain). Afterwards they even agreed with Kiev to not publicise how many men Kiev had lost; no photos came out of big piles of bodies (some with wrong uniform). .
Poroshenko kept denying the cauldron, hoping his guys would somehow win anyway.
Kiev’s constitutional claim to Crimea is not for the LPR/DNR to comment on – they merely re-iterated the article referencing it. The Crimeans have been trying for years to challenge that claim: the coup, along with Russia’s fears of a NATO takeover of Sevastopol, galvanized them into action and they simultaneously secceded from Ukraine and repatriated to Russia. Done deal. Such claims are often part of nation-state constitutions.
The Ukraine will likely federalise, as this document implicitly states: ‘special status’ will likely be sought by others, as Kiev’s incompetence and mendacity becomes impossible to bear. Better to remain on politically good terms with fellow Ukrainians,
and respond only defensively to provocations orchestrated by Kiev/NATO.
Over a million refugees from conscription – and rising. Political opposition can’t be controlled by fascist thugs forever..
Eimar,
It’s never mentioned, but Crimea had THREE referendums before the successful one. The first was even before Ukraine’s secession from USSR was complete. Although the vote was always to rejoin Russia, Kiev always refused to accept the results.
So the Crimeans were trying for 24 years to get back to Russia & finally made it.
Well, I take it as a ripost to what Russia is doing to Novorossia, which means this:
“If we are to be part of “unbreakable” Ukraine then Crimea is in it as well.”
They know this is a sort of practical joke for the World to see current Ukraine for what it is: a farce. As the Kiev junta will/does not want to talk to them any way. Junta wants it’s own version of their country.
Regards
Yes, to some extent they are just trolling Kiev, because they know nothing will come of it anyway. But it makes them look like they’re trying.
All they really did is take the existing constitution and tack onto it that they have special status., All oblasts of Ukraine are listed there. That also leaves it open for any of them to just get themselves moved to the other side of the “and special status for” wording… and demand autonomy for themselves.
What exactly the special status is would be in a whole new set of clauses.
“Russia has refused to sign off on the U.N. nuclear watchdog’s annual report because the document lists a nuclear reactor near Crimea’s Sevastopol as being in Ukraine, two diplomats present at the meeting told Reuters on Monday.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/08/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-nuclear-idUSKBN0OO1UJ20150608
Dear Saker,
You are absolutely correct that abt Crimea. There is nothing to be Panic about it since it is between Russia and Crimea. Moreover Crimea is melted into Russian Federation. Nothing could detached it no matter how much the Ukraine and the West bark loudly. No matter how much the Nato do their dumbell excercise it is not going to matter a bit to RF and Crimea. They should better digest it as soon as possible. It is also true if Ukraine would at all exist in coming days/months/years in its present form. The Donbass is correct that it has no right to change the constitution of UK hence it could not say rather accept the constitutional policy with its own autonomy. It is perfectly correct politically.
It does not and will not change the situation of RF and Crimea at all.
I hope it makes sense!! May be not to some !!!
Regds
Sanjay
Can’t say for sure… but looking at this from a legal perspective it appears what they did was take the current text of “Article 133” as it appears in Ukraine constitution and simply added the last part “some areas with a special status of Donetsk and Lugansk regions have a special status, which is determined by the laws of Ukraine.”
For me, the wrong part of the text is being highlighted. Obviously, these people are not experts, and just edited what is already written. It’s an easy way for them to comply with M2A requirements, as everyone knows Kiev/US/EU/NATO are not going to accept it anyway. Swiss media reported yesterday that OSCE rep at Minsk is quitting because the 2 sides can’t even sit and talk to each other. The wording is practically meaningless, except that it lets Donbas say they did what they agreed to in February.
The liberal media in Russia will have it’s field day with this, but in the end, just like all the talk from “West”, people in Crimea don’t care. They are happy now. No matter which country does a poll of thier feelings after going home to Russia, it still comes out the same – CRIMEA IS RUSSIA!!!!!
Eventually, the rest of the world will have to accept it as they are NOT changing thier opinions.
Perhaps the panic is because many people are losing faith in the Kremlin’s approach. It is unclear what they are actually trying to achieve, so it is easy to believe that the oligarchical side of the system is getting its way. Many who talked about the Ukraine collapsing last Summer are now having to say maybe it will collapse in the Summer of 2016, but how many will be left in the Donbass by then? Or Transdenistria? Besides, Gazprom will still want a functioning society to get its gas to Europe, so would Russia permit a collapse even in 2016?
Obviously, this particular case with Crimea in the text is making a mountain out of a molehill. It is irrelevant or trolling.
Perhaps the panic is because many people are losing faith in the Kremlin’s approach.
Not really. The folks who say that they are “losing faith in the Kremlin’s approach” never had it to begin with, so they are “grasping at straws” for the “aha!” proof that they were right, that’s all. The reality is that the Kremlin has been 100% consistent in its policies since the overthrow of Yanukovich and that the Kremlin is prevailing against everybody else, including the naysayers. But since this policy is one of patience and slow erosion of the opposition, it does not satisfy those who want an final outcome now (I might even write a separate post on that)
“But since this policy is one of patience and slow erosion of the opposition, it does not satisfy those who want an final outcome now”
Well said and I look forward to “(… a separate post on that)”.
I respectfully disagree, or at least I would phrase it quite differently. Some have opposed the policy, and they can be set aside. They are just complaining in a new way. But many of us have felt that the Kremlin was in a terrible situation and made what seemed to be a reasonable bet of just trying to wait for the collapse of Kiev while remedying many of Russia’s problems, such as relying on the Western banking system. But all choices were bad. Now some of us in the wait-and-see bloc are beginning to think that Kiev won’t collapse for a long time, if ever. I’m unsure, and see it as a race between the US building up an army and secret police versus the decay of a dying society. But an oil fire or privatizing the Odessa port complex don’t really show that the country is about to collapse. The Ukraine was a seriously messed-up country before the coup, and yet it went on for 23 years. There was always Uncle Misha to provide a few billion when needed.
Anyway, don’t throw out the merely anxious with those who are trolls or were convinced the Kremlin was making a mistake from the start. It may be obvious to you that things are going the Kremlin’s way, but not all see it so clearly. They see the consistency, but not the success.
You are correct in respect of Ukie collapse. It will not collapse for the same reason the “Empire” will not collapse, because they have a mountain of “fiat” money being printed 24/7.
Small addition to the financial support:
IMF is going to support them no matter what:
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/06/13/lagarde-imf-ready-fund-kiev-if-payback-private-creditors-fails.html
And back to the printing 24/7:
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/06/13/printing-press-kiev-last-hope.html
Just like I said.
Paul II,
you’ve posted some interesting analysis recently wrt elite oligarch v nationalist influences.
In you opinion, would an elite (capitalist based) Russian (i.e nationalist based) competition – provide an acceptable friction to the “Western Hegemon”? (assuming it were powerful enough and that it is actually a separate entity from the hegemon I refer to).
In very simple terms – it is better to have both google and microsoft rather than a google monoploly? (or is something completely different required)
Ukraine is in the process of collapse — ans so is the US. Don’t assume you will wake up one morning to discover that they no longer exist though — it’s a drawn out process with milestones along the way and open to various definitions. Both are one the way down, not up, with no possible reversal in sight.
Very sweeping statement Blue.
Most in the US/Ukraine are on the way down…because the few have designed it that way.
Those few are on the way up (as they see).
Quick analogy: it doesn’t help to climb the mast on a sinking ship.
All the money won’t help much when the system goes down, although it might take a while for it to play out. The .01% is not the US, and even oligarchs need a decent society to live in. If all they want is a comfy and secure cave they can buy one right now.
“Quick analogy:”
No, the parasite keeps the corpse alive.
Total wealth continues to increase – it’s division continues to skew in favour of the parasite.
I mentioned the US/Ukraine specifically to highlight that the .01% are not a nationalist grouping.
It’s not just the comfy cave that they crave – it’s the power, their desire for that is unlimited.
Oh this much Putin & Russia & Novorossia bashing…
Seems to me too much of western thinking, too much of ideology, of winning immediately, like Blitzkrieg!
I think (Novo)russians just want to live happily, the means to reach it, is not so important. Sacharchenko told this several times.
I think (Novo)russians will not kill thousands of Ukrainian people because they “could” attack and kill Novorussians, they will only resort to this, defending their own lives and that of their families or even Slavic brothers.
I think many forget here, that “Ukrops” or “Ukronazis” are still humans, creature of God, deceived by the devil. Novorussians treating POWs in hospitals with best means to send them home to their mothers is not only propaganda but deep respect of live.
There is absolutely no possibility short of Russia losing a World War that Crimea would be taken from her.No possibility that Putin will say “oh sorry,we changed our minds,Ukraine can have Crimea back”.If he was to even think of that he would have a “patriotic maidan” in Red Square overnight.With probably a nationalist coup,the day after that. We here in the West don’t seem to understand the emotional attachment of Crimea to Russia.Its not a toy that can be exchanged around the play-yard.There are 2.5 million people there,97% of them consider themselves loyal Russians.And there are 146 million Russian citizens,most of whom consider Crimeans as fellow Russian citizens.Putin didn’t make any of this happen,he only allowed it to happen easily.Had Russia not protected Crimea and allowed the vote.Today we’d be talking about the Crimean Peoples Republic being shelled by junta troops just like Donbass.The people there declared their own independence before Russia agreed to the vote and reunion.If Russia didn’t want them,they would still be an independent country fighting the junta for freedom.What the stooges in the West don’t care to think about is the will of the peoples in Crimea and mainland Russia.One thing that Putin is famous for,is following the will of the Russian people.That is why the government has countless polls taken on policies.He wants to know the “mood on the streets”,before taking actions.Reuniting Crimea,was a “very,very” popular action.Ditching Crimea,would be a “very,very,very”,unpopular action.One that no ruler of Russia could survive the results of,for long.
As for the Donbass story of “recognizing Crimea as part of Ukraine”.Its really not even worth a comment (though I’ll make one anyway).As has been explained.They just were talking about themselves.And as not competent to change the wording of other sections of the Ukrainian Constitution,they left that alone.They didn’t agree or disagree (though we all know they do disagree) with the Ukrainian claims.They just didn’t touch it at all.Now another point should be made here.Most people in Donbass,many in Russia,some in Ukraine,and a few in the West (me included) consider all Ukraine as a part of “eternal Russia”.So in that sense, I think they thought they wouldn’t want to get involved in affairs that didn’t touch directly on Donbass.
thanks Saker for your opinion…really great !! And that sentence…My personal feeling is that the Ukraine as a project has already ‘tanked’ and that all what is left is a long, painful and bloody agony…I love the grammar there…perfecto…thanks buddy !!!
there is no reason to panic
Let’s not forget that Ukrainian maidan was a brilliant move against Russia.
It hit them where hurts the most.
And now this ?
To panic is too early, however I would be very worry.
That is actually good, USA will never allow Ukraine to reintegrete Donbass, so the Donbass leaders should do everything to make it look they want to follow Minsk, so when the war finally breaks out, they can without a doubt say, we did everything we could, but the pro-USA oligarchy wanted war.
And so what if DPR and LPR says Crimea belongs to Ukraine, they are suppose to be regions inside Ukraine and not decided Ukraines foreign policy.
Good news except for those still dying or getting injured with no medical to go to. Interestingly the long term damage will be to the United States and all Europe, especially Germany!
With any luck, Murky’s days are numbered.
Sarah Wagenknecht is calling for an end to NATO occupation of Germany:
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/?m=1
Dear The Saker,
http://tass.ru/en/world/799958
LNR have now removed the parts mentioning Crimea and Sevestapol to stop any misunderstanding.
Well that should clear up stop any confusion in the Russian 5th column press.
Rgds,
Veritas
That’s good they clarified it.
As for becoming part of Russian federation, it’s possible to be something else — sort of in and sort of out, in a relationship that is crafted especially for the situation which is not complete independence from Russia, more autonomous than a Republic, and yet strongly bound through various treaties and laws, with a special section of the respective constitutions. IN short, none of this must follow standard forms — they can do what they choose.
http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/34.htm
SPOCK: By our parents’ arrangement. A ceremony while we were but seven years of age. Less than a marriage but more than a betrothal. One touches the other in order to feel each other’s thoughts. In this way our minds were locked together, so that at the proper time, we would both be drawn to Koon-ut-kal-if-fee.
With any luck, Murky’s days are numbered.
Sarah Wagenknecht is calling for an end to NATO occupation of Germany:
http://fortruss.blogspot.com/?m=1
Crimea was the best piece of cheese on that big fat rat, Zbigniew , s Grand Cheeseboard.
@Uncle Bob
Well said.
Good piece here by Jim Dean on the lengths to which Zionists went to obtain ‘settlers’ for the Zionist Entity as the Iranians call ‘Israel’:
http://m.journal-neo.org/2015/06/10/is-israel-beyond-saving-or-worth-it/
It would be great if the Sakes invited both he and Alison Weir to pen articles on the subject.
I think there may be some confusion about the document – on the Lugansk info page there is a document posted at “Скачать документ.” It seems to have the text of (some) the proposed additions – and no mention of Crimea. The other document Saker linked to (‘the official proposals of L…) is a more comprehensive version of the constitution (including the additions, I gather). The text on the country’s composition (incl. on Crimea) is from the original constitution – which only means that they did not delete the language on Crimea (just added new text). This Crimean hopes it was perhaps just an oversight…
Could this be a peevish response to Russia? The DPR and LPR wanted to join Russia just as the Crimea did but were repulsed in this effort and idea by Russia as the Putin regime strategizes and deals with the west.
Everybody saying different things, and none ever thought about maybe, just maybe, LPR isn’t 100% loyal to Russia? I believe, we are able to see from the murders of half the army leaders in LPR that there are SERIOUS problems in the LPR system. ;)
Why would Crimean be returned to Ukraine? It beloned to Russia in the first place, Krushchev gave it as present to ukraine in 1956 becuasee he was Ukranian. Shesh, stipid article begins with stupid premise.