Translated by Scott Humor and captioned by Leo.
Make sure to press CC for English captions.
The reckless audacity of Israel’s behavior in the Middle East, sooner or later had to lead to tragic consequences. And they finally came: from the provocation of Israel’s Air Force, a Syrian missile hit our Il-20 recon aircraft, killing fifteen Russians.
Do you remember the story with Gilad Shalit? He was a corporal of the Israel Defense Forces who on 25 June 2006, was captured by Hamas. To save their own soldier, the IDF started a military operation called “Summer Rains.” After the operation and other efforts did not succeed, after 5 years and 4 months, Israel exchanged Shalit for 1,027 Palestinian prisoners.
So this is to the question of how the state of Israel values lives of its soldiers. Now let’s return to the current events and the words of the Minster of Defense Sergei Shoigu about the actions of Israel, that caused deaths of fifteen our military servicemen.
“The blame for the downing of the Russian plane and the deaths of its crew members lies completely on the Israeli side,” Minister Shoigu said.
“The command center of the Russian troops were only informed with 1 minute left before the airstrikes by the Israeli F-16s began,” he mentioned.
“The actions of the Israeli military were not in keeping with the spirit of the Russian-Israeli partnership, so we reserve the right to respond.” – Minister Shoigu emphasized.
A question arises, if Israel has repeatedly been warned about the danger of such actions, and we have air defense systems in Syria, then why the hell did they not open fire on those who are a threat to Russian aircraft?
No, I understand international relations, a special partnership, and so on, but what kind of partnership is this, in which one side does what it wants, and then puts the other under attack? Do we need such a partnership?
I think you read how the head of Russia reacted to the incident.
“Regarding the response, they will be primarily aimed at additional security for our servicemen and our facilities in the Syrian Arab Republic, which will be such steps that everyone will notice,” Putin said.
It is very sad that our country does not undertake “steps that are noticed by everyone” before any tragedy occurred, but after the fact. Yes, Turkey didn’t just pay with sanctions on its tomatoes for shooting down our fighter jet, Turkey experienced economic pain and decided to be our partner. But, Israel has already been in our corner. At least we used to think that Israel is in our corner. Netanyahu attended the Victory Day parade in Moscow. May 9th in Israel is considered a holiday, and so forth. And now what? Are we going to forgive Israel, who fights for the life of every IDF soldier, for the loss of our fifteen compatriots?
I consider that it would be a demonstration of a weakness. And the weak are attacked. I think that we should take down any of Israel’s military jet, that threatens us even with 1% of probability of the attack. After the first their fighter jet is shot down, we will be faced with their screaming and barking, but what will Tel Aviv do? Declare war on Moscow? It’s ridiculous.
Tel-Aviv either will be trying again and again, or may continue attacks until our next downed plane, or it will give up their attacks immediately. Meaning they won’t be able to set us up again. You cannot let down the lives of Russians to anyone, especially – to such cleverly “partners”. When our people die in terrorists’ attacks, we strike them non-stop until they are destroyed. Enough fidgeting with the Israelis. Otherwise, a similar thing will 100% happen again.
Every Israeli fighter jet approaching dangerously close to our aircraft and bases in this region must be destroyed. The Israelis themselves act exactly this way. And they should inherit that.
P.S. An interview with the distinguished military pilot of Russia, Vladimir Popov, explains how the Israeli F-16 had been hiding literally under the wing of the Russia aircraft.
The Usual Tricks! Israeli Pilots Baited Syrian Missile By Hiding Under Wing of Russian Aircraft
Reacting the way this author suggests would mean walking right inro the trap laid by the Zionist-NATO combine.
Is the author aware thet the tiny Russian airforce in Syria would be obliterated within days, along with the land-based airdefense of Syria and Russia, once Israel and its allies decide to attak full scale with missiles and waves of aircraft?
Does the author even understand that merely supplying fresh ammunition to the air defense systems would already be a challenge, not to speak of fuel, spare parts and all sorts of other logistical headaches?
Is the author aware that the Zionist warmongers in tel Aviv and washington, along with their russophobe friends in London and Paris are only missing one item to do all that – and that this one missing item is a pretext!?
Shooting down an Israeli airplane over international waters or over Lebanon could be all that it takes.
The main stream media propaganda outlets would go into overdrive projecting the danger of another holocaust that needs to be prevented. We have heard more outlandish and sillier arguments and “justifications ” over the years, so outrageous as it sounds, this won’t be an unsuirmountable hurdle.
I agree… there are other means to give a proper answer to this situation… even painful that this one…
Removed. Please stop repeating the same comment over and over. Mod
What they are doing there is winning a war.
Yes, against Zionist backed jehadist. Their backers aren’t willing to let the investment good bad for whatever mysterious reason. So now the resistance has to fight with people who believe their own propaganda. Do you know Russia had a naval base in Syria before the mess started in 2011?
Would anyone like to take a guess why it was even their?
There are less visible ways. Why are the white helmets who are planning a chemical attack still alive? And what about the US/ NATO special forces and Blackwater characters present in Idlib and the rest of Syria?
@ John T
I agree. The US/UK/Israel are absolutely frothing for Russia to respond, and a spontaneous retaliation would be a disaster.
There is even an argument that Israelis prepared the attack to draw Syrian fire onto their own planes, ejecting in time, with the French sitting by collecting evidence of ‘Syrians shooting on US ally, Israel’. Because it is very clear that the Syrians did aim to take down an Israeli plane in international waters, and if they had been successful, we would have been at war with Syria today . I think the Russians are so careful not to give such a greenlight to WWIII that it is not too far to conjecture that the Russian plane took the hit in order to prevent this escalation.
Asymmetric retaliation is what Russia does. Some embedded Israelis are going to get killed. Cleverly played, Russia now have placed cross hairs on Israeli ISIS intelligence assets in Idlib. The Israelis will be informed, and they will shift their assets out of the way, which is a bigger win than tit for tat.
Sorry but that’s just nonsense you wrote down there mate.
Without Syria, Russia would have fallen soon after a few years ago when the war started. The US did not take Syria because the simple truth is they could not take Syria, neither can Israel, nor Saudi Arabia or anyone else. They are not omnipotent, you need to understand that the US can not do anything it wants simply because of the massively overbloated spending on military, this money is used to fill the pockets of corrupt elites more than it is to actually strengthen the military. Look at the F-35 program and tell me with a straight face that the money is well spent. There are many, many more examples of insanely expensive garbage being developed “for the military.”
Israel has been conducting hundreds of cowardly bombings from the sidelines for years because they don’t have the means for an all out campaign, they also wanted Assad out from the start, they were one of the driving forces behind the Syrian war. If they could take out Assad they would have done so already. Assad is still in power after over 7 years of nothing but war, a war in which dozens of countries are participating in, most of which want his head on a plate… yet don’t have it.
Forget pretext, nobody in the West cares about pretext, if they needed one they’d manufacture one, as they always have. Like they already did with all the rounds of sanctions, every single justification they gave is either based on false flags or lies. The Western politicians, as far gone, ridiculous, stupid and qualitatively degraded as they are, still know Russia is no joke, more precisely, Russian nukes are no joke. Which is why they have been trying to bring Russia down using other means, there is no winnable war on the other side of the idiotic decision to attack Russia militarily.
They can scream their lies all they like, whatever damage they could inflict upon Russia, they already did. There will also be no war with Russia unless it starts accidentally, even if you do not consider Russian nukes, a conventional war against Russia is not winnable on European soil. NATO is a paper tiger in Europe, most of it’s power comes from Turkey and US military bases, which are too few to match the military might of Russia and with Turkey moving away from NATO, now even being sanctioned by the US, I really, really doubt Erdogan would lift a finger to help NATO attack Russia.
They have already thrown everything they had at Russia, multiple false flag “chemical attacks” like Litvinenko and Skripal, they concocted this ridiculous narrative of Putin wanting to grab all ex-Soviet states because he “took” Crimea, they put so many sanctions on Russia any other country would have collapsed already. They have demonized Russia and Putin more than they have demonized Germany and Hitler leading up to the war, there is no more room to do more.
I agree with you 200%. Israeli power is overrated – the IDF could not even defeat Hezbollah in Lebanon. It is time for Russia and its allies to start shooting these criminal bastards down.
If NATO has the guts to launch an “overwhelming” attack on Russian assets in Syria as the author suggests, there is no doubt that the Russian will be overwhelmed in Syria by sheer weight of numbers BUT they can make the exercise a very expensive one for the west.
AND Russia must make it clear that the Eurotrash had better be prepared to fight the “New Red Army” in Europe.
Know what? They’ll crap themselves.
🇮🇳
I express my deepest condolences on behalf of all Indian friends of Russia. We are still and will remain with you as you have truly supported us.
With regards to the statement of President Putin ” a string of tragic circumstances ” ; tragic in the sense that Isreal along with France and UK standing in wings attacks the sovereign nation and ally of Russia, Syria ; after Syrian anti-aircraft batteries painted the attacking Israeli F-16’s their pilots chose to hide behind the wings of the IL -20 aircraft in order to save their lives ; the resulting tragic consequence was the loss off the IL-20 along with fifteen invaluable lives. What are to the Consequences of these tragic Circumstances will be in saner subtler hands.
“Is the author aware thet the tiny Russian airforce in Syria would be obliterated within days, along with the land-based airdefense of Syria and Russia, once Israel and its allies decide to attak full scale with missiles and waves of aircraft?”
Its not about the tiny Russian airforce in Syria. Russia has lots of possibilities to hurt any US military installation in the middle east and elsewhere
What you think will happen if after an massive attack from the USrael and the rest of the pack on Russian Military in Syria?
several US military bases could be eliminated within 1 hour same counts for ships
USrael know that and therefor will not do that
Indeed.
The Armchair General Brigade makes the mistake of thinking that if a war between Russia and US/NATO were to begin, that it would only be fought in Syria.
The opposite is likely. Such a war would likely mirror other European wars where North Africa/Syria is a minor sideshow front. The war might begin in Syria, but what happens in Syria would only have a small impact on the wider war.
For one example, if US/NATO is killing and attacking Russian service-people in Syria, then there is no reason for Russia to deal with Ukraine with any restraint. A couple of hundred NATO trainers would make no difference there. Russia would almost certainly hit the forces threatening Donbas. Donbas could then start to reclaim other areas in Ukraine that don’t want to be ruled by the fascists. Meanwhile, if Russia wants it, then armored columns could be driving towards Kiev with little to stop them.
If US/NATO is killing and attacking Russian service-people in Syria, then all those silly little battalions that NATO puts forward in the Baltic states just for show could all quickly die.
Geography says that the main front is still in Europe. After all, a Russian attack toward NATO, or a NATO attack into Russia, is far more serious and important to both forces than anything that happens in Syria. The situation quickly becomes one of a European war with a Syrian sideshow.
The Syrian sideshow would look like Israel + the Saudi mercenary army fighting against Iran + Hezbollah + Syria. Both NATO and Russia would concentrate on Europe. Both would likely send some resources to the Syrian front. But both would be far more interested in what was happening in Europe. My impression is that a front that includes both Hezbollah and Syria backed by Iran would give Isreal a great deal of trouble. Hezbollah alone has shown that they are capable of holding a defense against everything Israel could throw at it.
I also believe China when they have said within the year that they believe that if Russia goes down then they would be next. Since Trump is escalating the trade war with China on these same days, Trump would seem to be forcing China to join Russia. Which means that when the war begins, China takes Taiwan and closes western shipping through the S. China Sea. Which means that there is yet another front that the US is likely to regard as more important than Syria.
It is a fallacy to think that Israel + US/NATO could attack Russia in Syria and then fight a war limited only to Syria. It would start the next world war. Which of course has the danger of going nuclear which means we all die.
I think FUKUS could use some relentless bombing of their cities – – – it would give then a graphic understanding of they do to others every day and have been doing every day for two decades now.
Why should you forgive them?
This was treachery – plain and simple. Who forgives treachery?
Israel shouldn’t even bother to ask for at least two generations.
John T
That “tiny” Russian Air Force in Syria has the backing of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean, in the Black Sea and in the Caspian Sea, not to mention the backing of the Russian Air Force in Russia. Its more powerful than it appears, as Russia has geography on it’s side.
When Trump attacked Syria the last time, Russian combat planes were in the air, warning the US not to attack the Russian Air Force base in Syria. The did not. They attacked Syrian targets, with the Syrians shooting down most of the cruise missiles fired against them.
On this occasion we had an Israeli-NATO provocation against Russia. Israel launched that attack, but it had the backing of that French frigate, which fired missiles. What kind of missiles did it fire, and who really shot down that Russian reconnaissance plane ?
The intention, obviously, was to provoke Putin into retaliation. It did not work out, as Putin played it cool. Those NATO ships are still out in the Eastern Mediterranean. Now I am waiting to see what they are going to do next.
Not true. Where were these vaunted NATO forces from 2011 when Syria was a sitting duck overwhelmed by Israel, France, the UK, the US,Saudi Barbaria, Turkey and their savage ISIS forces, in addition to their powerful intelligence and financial clout?
Yet Syria held them off for FIVE years straight with minimal Russian material assistance and Iranian/Hezbollah support, until Russia physically entered the conflict in October 2016 and in just two years, has routed the Satanic alliance and only Idlib remains. We are now supposed to believe that the western alliance that couldn’t apply its massive military power for five years against a weak adversary will now use it to overwhelm a nuclear superpower that is fighting in Syria not just to defeat terrorists, but to prevent the establishment of a Jihadist proxy base in Syria aimed at Russia itself, the real target of the Anglo Zionist alliance and always was all along. Syria was just an obstacle.
If Russia is overwhelmed by western conventional force, they will use nuclear weapons, and their revised military doctrine of December 2016 states that explicitly, and Putin repeated it in March. There will be no military victory in Syria for the west and that war is lost.
Only Israel remains he says and the entirety of Syria’s oil being stolen in the North.
If this is so truthful and the west is so poised and overwhelming in the situation, why do they need a pretext when any old false flag would do?
there is something amiss in this assessment I think! why does not the west attack and be done with it..why does the west need legit pretext?
can we expect that the legit shooting down of the next Israeli plane that violates Syria would be the pretext for the west to start use their overwhelming force?
I mean were this supposed overwhelming superiority of America and NATO were true that combination would have long attacked and and liberated whats left of Syria from Assad.
the S-300 delivery would make no sense and Russia would not deliver. nothing Syria and Russia could do makes any sense. Russia would pack up and go home and Syria would simply lay down and die under western boots.
I don’t buy this argument at all. I imagine that the Russians from afar can take out all the platforms from which this overwhelming superiority of NATO/USA could be launched. and why wouldn’t Russia do that under attack as Russia would be.
by my calculation…pretext or legit shoot down of Israeli planes..once the shooting starts theres no going back. it is ether the USA/NATO stops or the world ends in ruins. Russia would be forced to kill the aircraft carriers and all the bases in the region from which that western effort would be launched.
that argument is apology and weakness as far as I see..the same weakness that led to the Israeli provocation. all I see is Russian apology and appeasement, and the burying of Russian dead. I have not seen one dead Israeli yet..and for that matter Turkish dead.
I am not asking for war..and I don’t think anyone is asking the Russians to be kamikaze..just to be smart and tough. how in the hell the Russians do not understand what i always understood..that the Israelis and the Americans will never act in any way different than they have behaved all along. they just wont because that is the nature and the interest of the beast we are dealing with
I am not Putin but had I decide to go into Syria I would have been anticipating the Israelis according to how I know them to be by long experience, and comprehensive understanding of the issues at hand. and I be prepared up front to deal with them at every turn.
chess game? sure! I would have put in the S-300 from the very start. no western pressure would stop me from doing that. I would have all state of the art and nothing would get past me.
that is ho to prevent war..by being ready for it, by demonstrably knowing you enemy so that he is aware you know him and would him out of the sky if he stepped threateningly into you face. for example why did that Israeli plan responsible for the 15 dead Russians get safely back home into Israel, home and clear?
if that Israeli plane was blown out of the sky all would be quiet no..a kind of Nile or balance. Russia would have put in the S-300 anyway, do the upgrades and all the talk of future revenge would not have surfaced. no need for revenge. in fact not only that one plane should have been shot down. 2-3 Israeli planes were involved. all 3 should have been shot down..even over Israel before they landed..or even landing. that would have evened out things nicely and there would have been no war at all
pretext! no pretext! be ready to fight..hit back immediately when hit and the fight ends there.
reserve what right to retaliate at time of your own choosing!!! thats the nonsense talk of appeasers and the unprepared. that is what Russia appears to be in a confrontation Russia initiated by accepting Assad’s invitation… yet is not ready.
that is what makes no sense: that Russia went into Syria and did not have to. Putin could have declined the invitation and instead armed Syria fully, trained Syrian personnel, sent in advisers etc
but Putin accepted, went in and has been behind the 8-ball every since. makes no sense at all
Russia has no reason to complain about what happened because it has at the same time a full alliance with Isr. and some kind of limited military agreement with Syria. For what we can see if Russia is forced to choose the main partner is Isr. not Syria.
Its obvious that Israel and the French are trying to provoke a response from the Russians in order to justify a large attack from NATO (US) to keep their illegal war going.
The reactionary analysis in this article is foolish and would only lead to a wider war, precisely what the US desires.
We don’t need to agree with Ruslan here; it is useful to read in order to gauge the feeling of the public in RUssia right now in reaction to the killing of their soldiers.
That is true, anon. Helps Putin’s ‘diplomacy’. ‘Help me placate my people, Schlomo. They want me to start killing Israelis. What can you promise me to help them forget this?’.
It therefore follows, that the more angry the Russian people are, the more they are helping Putin, so Ruslan is doing his bit there.
I wrote in another thread on this site, that stupid Israel’s supposedly clever move, will just enlist more people to despise them, to add to those that already do, and that this will not be something that they can just laugh off.
They are doing a great job at becoming international pariahs. Nobody will cry for the terrorist entity that is Israel, if it ends up being destroyed, because they keep just giving us fresh reasons to be disgusted by them. Their latest back-stabbing behaviour is absolutely no surprise, they are history’s true Nazi state. How many Palestinian children did they shoot this month?
The funny thing is, they cannot gauge true global sentiment towards them, because they control global media, and suppress criticism of themselves, and so there is none to be heard. They will not understand what is happening to them one day when the dam breaks. Hubris will meet its nemesis, because increasingly, the goyim know.
I previously never had any sentiment for Syria, but we are all Syrians now.
Include me in the despise list.
There is no “feeling of the public in RUssia right now in reaction to the killing of their soldiers” as almost no-one knows that this has occurred. Outside of the military press, this has gone almost entirely unreported. My daughter was shocked when I told her last night, that I was reading about the shooing down of the Russian aircraft. “What? When? How?” was her response – “It is not on the news.” Subtle censorship is part of the “fog of war’.
I find this hard to believe when I watched the “60 minutes” segment on Vesti about it myself. When I saw Kedmi the Israelite apologise for it, and say “it was a terrible, doom laden, mistake”.
Perhaps she just reads the womens fashion magazines, but I’ve seen stuff out of Russia about it.
Governments come and go, as Aleksei Alekseevich Brusilov famously explained in his letter to Pravda. His observation applies to all States.
The States remain a physical reality with which Russ must live. It is not correct to say Israel, when the reality is Likudnik nazis attempting to create a massive “bookend” in the Eurasian Heartland. Saying what you do not know is a basic error in logic.
Thus “forgiveness” is oxymoronic concept in instance.
Recall:
Clausewitz said that “war is a pulsation of violence, variable in strength and therefore, variable in the speed with which it explodes and discharges it energy’ and that, “If we keep in mind that war springs from some political purpose, it is natural that the prime cause of its existence will remain the supreme consideration in conducting it.”
Comrade VVP is doing just fine. He keeps Political Purpose foremost. Keeps irrational emotions under control. Without giving way to anger the concept of forgiveness is non operative and has no meaning.
(It is also logical to expect that the principal individuals in the (probably French shoot-down of Il-20 may expect early accidental but quiet deaths).
Someday both Israel and France will become aligned with Russ in economic net of Heartland economy and diplomacy. VVP plays not to satisfy emotions, but to prevail.
How many illegal occupiers died when Syria smacked the Apartheid State upside the head? It will never be reported. When Russia takes it’s revenge (discretly) no one will ever know how many occupying terrorists are killed. Like when yanks get killed in SDF areas of Syria, the paying public at home is not informed.
I didn’t appreciate that guy conducting the interview of the pilot constantly interrupting and talking over him. That really get under my skin.
I honestly think the right thing, the best thing, the moral course is to not allow any aircraft to attack Syria. I mean nobody. Not Israel, not France or Britain or the U.S. They are all aggressions, acts of war, and against international law where another country is not to intrude or attack another country that is already under such distress. It is time to take off the gloves. Otherwise this free for all will continue and it won’t end until Syria is utterly destroyed, with Iran being next.
Announced on Tuesday by Svetlana Petrenko, an official representative of the Russian Federation’s SC.
“The main military investigation department of the Criminal Investigation Service of Russia instituted a criminal investigation into the crash of the Il-20 aircraft over the Mediterranean Sea, and investigators and criminologists of the SC of Russia are working together with representatives of the Russian Defense Ministry,” Petrenko said.
What about the possibility that france shot down the plane and the russians response was to paint it as inadvertent blame on israel instead of overt blame(and outright war) on france?
https://off-guardian.org/2018/09/19/is-russia-engaging-in-strategic-disinfo-to-avoid-being-drawn-into-trap/
Without physical proof or definitive radar data, France cannot be blamed, as yet.
Russia will document what missile hit the plane when it has the physical evidence.
Right now, they might not have that or might not want to use it.
What difference is it anyway? Russia and all of us understand this was not an accident of war.
This was a planned, coordinated preamble to bigger operations.
The aim was to hurt Russia, and to unsheathe the S-400 so the US could grab its electronic signal profiles and create countermeasures for when they actually launch a massive attack on Syria and Russian assets.
The Syrian War is now v.2. It includes Russia as a target. It will also include Hezbollah in Lebanon, certain Turk assets, and Iraqi and Iranian assets. The US and Israel mean to get back complete hegemony of the ME.
This was an Operation to get that war rolling.
It is much bigger than the Il-20 destroyed.
“The aim was to hurt Russia, and to unsheathe the S-400”
Well if Russia sells S-400’s to Turkey the U.S. and NATO will learn everything about it.
Turkey is not to be trusted.
Turkey is still in NATO and shows no genuine signs of leaving, despite some issues from the coup.
I also think Russia should turn back to the South Stream pipeline through Bulgaria since John McCain is out of the picture. He was the one who flew to Bulgaria and pressured and threatened them to renege on the pipeline deal.
“But there is another possible motive behind the West’s serial attacks. Modern electronic warfare includes the detection and countering of air defense systems. Each time an air defense system is activated, its position and characteristics can be ascertained. Even if air defense systems are mobile, the information they provide during a provocation while attempting to detect and fire at targets is invaluable to military planning.
Should Russia engage its most sophisticated air defense systems during provocations, affording the West a complete picture of both its technology in general and the disposition of its defenses in Syria specifically, should the West decide to launch a knock-out blow through a full-scale air assault, it could do so much more effectively.”
Syrian-Russian Victory Over NATO the Only Way to Avenge Israeli-French Strikes
https://syria360.wordpress.com/2018/09/19/syrian-russian-victory-over-nato-the-only-way-to-avenge-israeli-french-strikes/
Russian MoD Refutes Claim Il-20 Hit Due to Failure in Friend/Foe Identification
https://sputniknews.com/world/201809201068188741-russia-syria-il-20/
“Each state has its own Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system and Russia does not install its identification systems on armaments exported abroad, the Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.
The ministry said that there were no precedents where it had transferred IFF systems with Russian identification codes to other states.
“The IFF system of state recognition is strictly individual for each state, and even for weapons and military equipment exported from Russia within the framework of military-technical cooperation, it has never been installed. All this fully applies to the domestic air defense systems delivered to the Syrian Arab Republic,” Konashenkov said.
“The IFF system of state recognition used by Russia is only used by aircraft and air defense systems identified as Russian. There have never been any precedents for the transfer of such a system, together with Russian identification codes, to another state, and in principle cannot be,” Konashenkov said.”
One of the memes used in the zionazi-gay trolling was based upon phony claims about Russian and Syrian IFF. Evidently the websayanim have been spamming this nonsense quite widely since the MoD saw it necessary to publicly debunk the govno. Don’t expect the websayanim to stop, though, they have their programming…
It would not matter if you listen to the interview with Popov. It is a homing missile which chases. It locates nearest big target. Israelis hid under wings of defending IL-20
Many people in the Alternative Media consider Syria and Iran as “Russian allies”, but they assume Israel is not an ally of Russia.
But this makes no sense because Russia has “friendly” and good diplomatic, economic, social and military relations with all these countries, including Israel.
So either Israel, Iran and Syria are all allies or……Israel, Iran and Syria are not allies.
In any case, however you want to define the relationship, Russia has agreements with all of these countries based on pragmatic (realpolitik) mutual interests which is combined with “friendly” diplomatic relations. In these agreements Russia has agreed to some mutual boundaries:
– Israel is allowed to bomb Syria and Iranian forces inside Syria
– Russia will help Syria to liberate some areas and back the Syrian military
– Iran is allowed to work in Syria
– Syria is allowed to counter Israeli aggression, but on its own
– Turkey is allowed to control some parts of Syria
– US is allowed to control some parts of Syria
– etc. etc.
The West, Israel, Iran and Syria (including Turkey, Saudis, etc.) all know about each other’s agreements with Russia and have accepted these agreements (whether they like them or not). All these parties have factions that are willing to work with the Russians and factions who want to sabotage these agreements.
This is the reality on the ground. Russia is playing a balancing act according to what it sees is in its interest. This is done by slowly working its way towards influencing the situation in the Middle-East and achieving its objectives, whether its securing its underbelly, the Mediterranean or undermining Western/Gulf influence and future energy strategies. And doing this all while trying to avoid major incidents. Losses are calculated as part of this plan. In order to gain influence and determine some of the outcomes some sacrifices need to be made…this is a simple cost-benefit analysis.
You want Russia to undermine the entire Western hegemony and strategic architecture in the Middle-East within a 5 to 10 year period without losses ? Is this some kind of joke ?
During the Korean war the Soviet Airforce lost 335 planes and 120 pilots and almost 300 people overall. During the Soviet-Afghan war, Russian casualties: 14,000+. For god’s sake people, Syria has been a piece of cake. Ok maybe except for Vietnam, where the soviets only lost 15 to 20 men while Soviet PVO SAM Anti-Aircraft Missile operator/instructors were responsible for downing approximately 48 US aircraft during the course of defending North Vietnam lol.
So from what we can overtly see out in the open, is that there is no reason to call Iran an ally of Russia, while calling Israel not an ally of Russia. According to the friendly diplomatic ties and agreements Russia has with both countries, either both are allies or both are not allies (partners in mutual interest). This is the only logical conclusion I can draw.
Harry, you begin with a false syllogism. Thus, wander in the wilderness of faulty conclusions.
Ally is someone who fights in coordination with you toward the same goals, often on the same missions and within the same operations.
Israel is no one’s ally, much less Russia’s.
Iran, Hezbollah, Syria and some Iraq units (PMUs and AF) have fought in coordination with Russia.
Israel is on the side of Israel, al Nusra, US, SA, UAE, Qatar and ISIS.
Need I continue?
Technically speaking, Russia is not in an alliance with these countries but in a “military coalition”.
Just like the Syrian Arab Republic was in a “coalition” with the US during Gulf (Operation Desert Shield/Storm) war against Iraq.
* Piece of cake as in number of casualties……it could still trigger WWIII ;-). A high risk low frequency thing.
It’s sadly the case that the world is largely criminalized: Israel is a criminal state, but Russia can have “friendly” relations with it as a “partner,” instead of being able to tell it to go to hell. Ditto for the US and SA. The US can illegally be in Syria and even bomb it, but they can also be “our partner.” Turkey can stab you in the back and try to play both ends against the middle, but it too can be a “partner” and entertain “friendly” relations. Realpolitik today justifies everything and anything, principles go by the board. “In the fatness of these pursey times virtues itself of vice must beg.”
48? I think it was way more than 48.
Some estimates put US aircraft losses over Vietnam in excess of 5000 (fixed wing and helicopters). Even the US admits to approximately 2200 losses. Of course not all of these were downed by AA – many by ground fire and the inevitable accidents (such as that idiot McCain was responsible for).
In Korea, the Russian pilots inflicted such heavy losses on US bombers that the US was forced to cancel raids on the Yalu river crossings located in “Mig Alley”.
As far as Iran and Israel go – ask yourself one question – who is regularly bombing the crap out of Syria? It sure ain’t Iran.
48 shot down by Russian SAM teams, much more by Vietnamese teams. Obviously numbers could be higher.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_aircraft_losses_to_missiles_during_the_Vietnam_War
And yes we know who is bombing who, and despite that Russia still has a special place for Israel in its heart lol….and please ask more useful questions next time lol.
Maybe time to destabilise Jordan. Without Jordan Israel has a major problem.
You talk about the *people* in Jordan as if they were some war-game toy for you to play with.
They are people. Show some respect.
Putin’s Hesitation Has Lost Syria’s Idlib Province
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/09/20/putins-hesitation-has-lost-syrias-idlib-province/
Hard to argue against the hard facts. Martyanov has good points, but in the end, PCR’s logic is irrefutable. Both Israel and the US need a punch to the mouth to sober them up. As for the Turks…if a thousand years of their treachery haven’t taught the Russians a lesson, what can one say? I wouldn’t trust Erdogan farther than I could toss a truck.
Yet Erdogan is responsible to Putin now. If Erdogan fails to uphold his end of the deal he will fast be running out of protection. Does he want to go back to the West who tried to have him deposed, even killed? Turkey, cut off from the West and the East, won’t last long.
Why don’t people see that there is no hurry to start WWIII?
My bet is Russia will keep building up Syria’s air defenses. If part of the response to the downing of the IL-20 is complete Syrian/Russian hostile air defense cover across all of tiny Israel’s air space, meaning NO Israeli air field or air craft is safe, ever – how will Netanyahu and Israel like them beans? Not much I’d wager.
Putin has been taming crazy narcissists for decades. Now the turn has come to Erdogan and Netanyahu. Finally, PCR’s logic is refutable. If Putin takes a hard stance ZioNATO takes over in the West and Full Spectrum Dominance kicks in and the Western experiment with “democracy” (such as it was) is over. Neither Russia nor the West benefits in that scenario. This is where the Neocons and Israel want to take matters, why play into their strategy?
Europe is the target just as much as Russia is. Europe (Germany) cannot be allowed independence and to pursue it’s own path to prosperity and freedom (trade and partnership with the East, rather than being a slave to London and Washington). If Putin takes a hard stance, this opportunity is lost for the next 50 years. I wonder why PCR does not see this, hmm.
Actually Dr. Robert’s views are based on his notion of what is right and wrong, and not only his logic. He calls things as he sees it from his perspective and I have a lot of respect for that, even if I do not agree with everything he says.
Some people write about what people in power should do from a moral stand point, while others are trying to explain or predict what people in power want to do (covertly or overtly) and why they are doing it. These can be two different things.
What the author considers “tragic” is far too limited. What about the daily murdering of Palestinians; isn’t that “tragic”? Isn’t the occupation of Palestine by Zionist Terrorists “tragic”?
As I’ve written elsewhere, what was at fault was Russia’s policy of allowing Zionist attacks on Syria in the first place. Immediately upon Russia’s intervention in 2015, it ought to have declared a No Fly Zone and backed it with the proper weaponry. If a tragedy exists, it was the shortsighted and decidedly unfriendly (toward Syria) policy that was tragic and was revealed as such. Immediately following the IL-20’s loss–Bingo!–policy quickly changed as an ad-hoc No Fly Zone was announced that will provide the foundation for a permanent NFZ for as long as Russia remains in Syria combating terrorists.
you can imagine the laughing and celebration of all the planners of this atrocity – like the dancing Israelis
Sun Tzu said (paraphrasing) “when the enemy wants you hot you stay cold”.
So how does Moscow answer non-violently?
Sue (the Jewishness out of) Tel Aviv!
…and don’t forget that Tel Aviv downed the Russian airliner over Egypt some two years ago during a Blue Flag multinational exercise with an AMRAAM 120-C or D (VeteransToday.com has great info on that). Moscow covered it up.
Tom Luongo makes interesting statements involving that mysterious firing of the French navy ship:
“Russia, and Putin, did the one thing that makes this whole thing look like a frame job, it accepted the narrative of Israeli malfeasance in the interest of stopping a wider conflict by accusing and/or attacking a NATO member, France.
Flores makes the salient point that the S-200 friendly fire scenario is highly unlikely. That, in fact, France shot down the plane, was prepared to accept blame (which it did by preemptively denying it was involved) and destroy what was left of Russian/French relations.”
Whole article here: https://tomluongo.me/2018/09/19/decoding-putin-attack-syria/
An Israeli site mentions that this could well be backfiring on Israel: https://www.debka.com/russia-to-beef-up-air-defenses-aircraft-to-curtail-israeli-air-operations-in-syria/
Maybe the controlled reaction of Putin is the smartest move. It might be clear by now, that arrangements with NATO and Israel are simply not possible.
In the meantime, a thought crossed my mind. Regarding the detailed intel about tHe prepared faked CW attack, could it be that Syrian agent(s) have infiltrated in the White Helmets (who appear to have 150 men working on PR)? Wouldn’t it be nice to make copies of the prepared fake videos, and show them at the UNSC on beforehand?
Cheers, Rob
If the Jews have created their own law, they act according to this law. A law that is totally different to international and against God Almighty’s LAW. Jews know very well what they are doing, and when the things don’t work as conceived then they start to delude people.
To my surprise I didn’t read this yet in the Russian media, though it is mentioned also on Southfront. On the Debka site (normally well informed in military and intelligence sources) they even mention what this means: Russian military exercises, *with a no fly zone over the Eastern Mediterranean*:
https://www.debka.com/russia-shuts-e-mediterranean-to-air-and-sea-traffic-for-military-exercise/
Well, how long are these exercises going to last?
Cheers, Rob
Untill sept 26.
Some suggestions: Putin should at least stop paying pansions the Russian jews living in Israel.
Putin should at least provide both Syria and Iran with the S400. That should be something to start with meaning Russia is in business again. No need for threats, red lines, etc (from Russia) that never are fullfilled this put only in more danger the Russian personal in Syria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-200_(missile)
Wikipedia has already been edited to include the “fact” that the Il-20 was shot down by a Syrian S-200…
The Ziospam has long reach.
Was the crippling of the USS Liberty “reckless audacity”? I’m fed up seeing such euphemisms applied to Israel’s behaviour. This is not chutzpah — it is murder. They get away with it because of global Zionist power; not because of their cleverness but because of their influence around the world. The War on Terror, of which the war against Syria (The Zionist Proxy War if you want an accurate label), was planned and started by Zionists for Zionism. Enough of the euphemisms :P
I am going to post this on three threads – mod permitting – as I think it contains important data from a very reliable source.
Certainly it explains the caution with which President Putin is treating this issue until forensic data is all in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au1PG8kl6wU
“The command center of the Russian troops were only informed with 1 minute left before the airstrikes by the Israeli F-16s began,” he mentioned.”
Isn’t that the time the israHellis give the poor Palestinians before they bulldoze/ bomb their homes ?
There is not a group of people that I abhorr more than those God forsaken israHellis.
I consider them to be The Children of the Devil.
Only God Himself can convince me that the murder of the Russians by those devils was a ” mistake” .
it seems the russian strongman is a dove after all, a dose of testosterone needs to be injected into the kremlin.