From a lot of comments I am getting I feel that this is the time to repeat a few things and clarify others.
First, I completely agree with A.B.’s comment who said that Russia does not want the Ukraine to rise up. The three reasons he gives are, I believe, spot on. However, I do believe that there are scenarios in which Russia will have to intervene, such as a bloody repression by the neo-Nazis against the Russian speakers.
The problem is that the more the revolutionary regime in Kiev and its western patrons (USA, US, EU) push for the maximalist solution (no federation, one language, no referendum, full scale repression) the more the eastern Ukraine will try to get out of Banderastan.
Furthermore, I would argue that the Russian-speaking population in the east of the Ukraine really has zero hopes of getting some kind of more or less civilized and reasonable negotiated agreement with the freaks in power in Kiev. Therefore, while Russia does not need the eastern Ukraine, the Russian speakers in the eastern Ukraine have little or no hope except to have a Russian intervention.
The fact that the Russian speakers are weak invites more, not less, violence from the neo-Fascist camp. In other words, getting organized and armed would assure less, not more, bloodshed (that is for the retard who accused me of wanting more bloodshed in eastern Ukraine).
The size of the crowds matter, but only to some degree. Far more important is the degree of determination of the anti-Fascist demonstrators. First, in almost all conflicts the majority stays at home and watches TV and, second, it does not take a lot of manpower to organize an effective resistance as long as they resisting forces is determined and organized.
Some commentators have tried to minimize the seriousness of the events taking place in the Ukraine. That is quite futile and the best proof of this is not what I, or RT, say, but the fact that the entire political leadership of the revolutionary regime in Kiev has relocated to the eastern Ukraine to try to get the situation under control while in the Kiev Parliament they are having fist fights over this issue. The undeniable fact is that the regime in Kiev is clearly in a near panic mode. This is also true of the EU and USA who have made rather silly and over the top statements. Anybody who thinks that this is all just the result of Russian propaganda urgently needs to stop watching the Idiot-Tube.
Finally, I would note that anybody going to a pro-Russian (speaker or country) demonstrator is taking a huge risk. These people got attacked, beat up, arrested, disappeared, tortured, their cars burned, their homes and family attacked and they now even get shot at. This is not Hong Kong and the atmosphere of real fear is being reported by every single source I know of. Even journalists have been attacked, beat up, tortured (fingernails pulled) so simply stating that there are “few” demonstrators just is not good enough, one has to look at the context and the very real risks ever one of these demonstrators takes. Even when they are in relatively large numbers (say several thousands), the demonstrators got attacked as soon as they began to disperse. That happened many times and in many cities. As for well-known activists, they have been threatened, kidnapped and even killed, some have even had murdered friends.
Bottom line: the Banderites in Kiev are scrambling to get the situation under control while the size of the crowds is, in fact, quite amazing considering the risks involved.
So those who try to explain away what is happening in the eastern Ukraine by either minimizing the figures of people involved or by denying that the situation is extremely serious are misleading (whether deliberately or by ignorance) other commentators here, which I way I decided to cross some t’s and dot some i’s to set the record straight.
Stay tuned and kind regards,
The Saker
It is hard to compare these protests with the Maydan. Back then, it seemed Yanukovich was bending over backwards not to hurt anyone. These new thugs calling themselves the government have the full backing of the US/EU to do whatever they want. Also, Kiev is a much larger city than any of the eastern ones. Population 2.8 million compared to Dontesk, for example, with under a million. Also, I suspect they were busing in plenty of people from west Ukraine to Maydan, whereas in the east, the protesters are split up into several cities.
It is also important to note that this may be the beginning of a revolt and not the end of it. Extreme austerity, economic collapse combined a heavy handed crackdown has a way of pissing people off. Add to that the general anger at how the Maydanski were made the toast of the world, whereas they are nothing but ‘Russian agents’ and you can suddenly see much bigger crowds.
What Russia does is crucial. They are going to be blamed for whatever happens, so they might as well get involved in whatever covert ways they can. Hand out radios, some weapons perhaps, and advice on how to make barricades. Send in real agents to help organize them.
Also, while I know this is dirty pool, perhaps it is time to identify Pravy Sector’s middle management and start doing bad things to them.
I suspect the pro-Russian populace will be more eager to join protests if they feel they have some Russian back up.
And while I understand Russia doesn’t really need east Ukraine for much, I also think it could be very useful to have. Gaining an industrial base (yes it’s old, but it can be modernized more easily than starting from scratch) along with 15 million or so loyal Russian citizens could very well be a great investment.
Obviously, the west will go nuts. Maybe Russia doesn’t want to escalate things right now. But to me it looks like this is a great opportunity for Russia to expand its power in a perfectly righteous way. At the same time, it teaches the west a lesson that Russia’s near abroad is off limits. It also tells future western collaborators that the west can’t protect them.
Just some ideas to kick around.
Invasion of Ukraine planned tonight, says Military Expert Dmitry Tymchuk:
“Breaking news from group “Information Resistance” We, the group “Information Resistance”, have received from our reliable sources the satisfactory confirmation of the statement of Ukrainian Foreign Ministry that the observed activity of the separatists in eastern Ukraine which has been lasting for the last three days is nothing but the beginning of the second phase of the scenario for the Russian invasion in our country.
In particular, according to our information, the separatist leaders, who follow the plan of GRU * of General Headquarters of Russian Armed Forces, have been given the instructions to organize a “corridor” through the state border of Ukraine for passage of the convoys of military equipment from the Russian territory at the night of April 8th to 9th.
Separatists also have received the orders to organize provocations with the casualties in the cities of the region which could be interpreted by the Russian side as “terror against the people organized by Ukrainian authorities”.
In addition, the coordinators of Russian GRU, who work in the region, have instructed the separatists to use gunfire weapon in case the attempts to liberate the occupied administrative buildings are taken.
According to our information, Ukrainian law enforcement agencies and special services are now taking the necessary measures to block the groups of the separatists.
State Border Service and the Armed Forces of Ukraine are carrying out the activities on blocking and defense of the state border in the respective areas. “
COPIED FROM ZERO HEDGE
Saker,
The long game is all that matters. Having said, It would be nice to see the Banderites get a dose of their own medicine. A little “accident” here, a little “lead poisoning” there just to make it a little more interesting. :)
Meezer
I agree with the points you make, they are well founded. The scary thing is, the dynamics of the situation may easily trigger the extreme scenario which Dr. Konstantin Sivkov of the Russian Academy of Geopolitical Problems describes in todays article in Military-Industrial Courier, under the ominous title “On the threshold of world war” (in Russian, http://vpk-news.ru/news/19870 ).
Invasion of Ukraine planned tonight, says Military Expert Dmitry Tymchuk
A rabidly anti-Russian outlet has recently backtracked from this assertion.
Greetings from Singapore:
QUOTE
Diplomatic niceties aside, the ultimate choice facing Mr Kerry is stark enough: he can either reject the Russian offer and risk a dangerous showdown with Russia, or accept it, and consign Ukraine to the status of an impotent buffer zone between Russia and the West for years to come. The fact that, at least for the moment, Mr Kerry refuses to rule out either option is in itself an indication of American hesitation which the Russians are guaranteed to exploit.
That’s why Mr Sergei Lavrov left the latest Paris negotiations beaming. The Russians simply do not buy the Western arguments that Moscow is isolated, or that it cannot get its objectives in Ukraine.
UNQUOTE
More here:
https://www.rusi.org/analysis/commentary/ref:C5342DB7174611/
Interesting! From SPIEGEL ONLINE:
Ukraine Crisis Exposes Gaps Between Berlin and NATO
‘Once the Cold War ended, Western militaries reduced their focus on military deterrence in Europe. As a consequence, the Ukraine crisis has caught NATO flat-footed as it rushes to find an adequate response to Russia. Germany has been reluctant to go along.’ By SPIEGEL Staff
Indeed, the long game is all that matters, except resolving the situation in a stable manner NOW can save people’s lives. That’s the only difference, although if we look at Bosnia we can see how the US prevented diplomatic settlements in order to back a war killing 100,000, only to end up backing a diplomatic settlement pretty much equivalent to the ones earlier agreed.
Even if Maidan regime “wins” for now, there is no way they can achieve stable happy SE Ukraine, much less West/Central, when faced with economic collapse and hyper-austerity. That they are now criminalizing people doing the exact same sort of actions that Maidan and Svoboda undertook in Kiev and the rest of Ukraine just reveals their ultimate weakness. Maidan took a while to “win” as well, why would such short-term measures be any more effective here?
After earlier guaranteeing that gas transit to EU will continue no matter what (i.e. irrespective of Kiev’s ability to buy gas for itself), they now reversed that and say that EU gas transit may be threatened if they cannot get gas themself. The EU knows these guys don’t have any viable strategy for long term stability, so the only question is how long they are humored and how many people have to die first?
Indeed, the long game is all that matters, except resolving the situation in a stable manner NOW can save people’s lives. That’s the only difference, although if we look at Bosnia we can see how the US prevented diplomatic settlements in order to back a war killing 100,000, only to end up backing a diplomatic settlement pretty much equivalent to the ones earlier agreed.
Even if Maidan regime “wins” for now, there is no way they can achieve stable happy SE Ukraine, much less West/Central, when faced with economic collapse and hyper-austerity. That they are now criminalizing people doing the exact same sort of actions that Maidan and Svoboda undertook in Kiev and the rest of Ukraine just reveals their ultimate weakness. Maidan took a while to “win” as well, why would such short-term measures be any more effective here?
After earlier guaranteeing that gas transit to EU will continue no matter what (i.e. irrespective of Kiev’s ability to buy gas for itself), they now reversed that and say that EU gas transit may be threatened if they cannot get gas themself. The EU knows these guys don’t have any viable strategy for long term stability, so the only question is how long they are humored and how many people have to die first?
Russia really needs to remind the EU what happened when they let the US over-ride their own diplomacy initiatives in Bosnia. Truth hurts.
MHM quoting rusi: “consign Ukraine to the status of an impotent buffer zone “
As if “impotent buffer zone” is a horrible thing to be. How is Finland doing? They are also fully democratic, etc, last time I checked. This is only a bad thing from some confrontationalist, anti-Russian agenda perspective.
NATO wants to make this out as Russian military aggression over-riding the norms of diplomatic international relations, when in fact Russia was clear and generous in diplomatic dealings from the beginning, but the EU was the party that refused Ukraine’s request for 3-way negotiations to find a viable neutral path for Ukraine between EU and Russia. After the Maidan coup, Russia was clear that it did not recognize the legitimacy of the coup regime, yet that was ignored in NATO’s moment of victory, despite it having obvious implications for how Russia act contra to the coup regime’s preferences.
Russia’s action in Crimea is wholly NORMAL when you take into account the illegitimacy of coup regime and legitimate President Yanukovych’s request for them to protect against Maidan forces. With the constitutional order broken, there was no legitimate authority to rule against Crimea’s secession. International law itself does not illegalize secession, that is only a function of legitimate national authorities preventing it, so without that authority then nothing prevents secession, so Russia was acting in line with international law there.
It’s unfortunate that Russia does not emphasize that enough, making clear that this is not a threat to existing international law, but instead they play childish games propagandizing about Catalan, Scottish, Italian secession movements, which just alienates those governments.
“Also, while I know this is dirty pool, perhaps it is time to identify Pravy Sector’s middle management and start doing bad things to them.”
Oh hell yes! And I wouldn’t just go after “middle management” :)
VS, you may find this program interesting if only because it covers some of what is happening in Eastern Ukraine:
http://wesa.fm/post/pittsburgh-filmmakers-get-caught-ukraine-russian-conflict
I suspect that the subject of this interview is a bit of dupe. He may actually believe he went to Ukraine to film a documentary about some saintly figure who helped drug addicted orphans, but I think this may have been a cover for a fact finding mission covertly funded by the State Dept or Pentagon.
The skepticism on the announcer’s part really stands out. I think the interviewer suspects there was an ulterior purpose to what this film crew was doing, but the guy acting as their translator who is the subject of the interview has no clue. The funniest part is that this documentary crew could not find any drug-addicted orphans who were supposed to be the beneficiaries of the good deeds performed by the subject of this documentary.
I think it may be possible for Russian military and intelligence assets to seemlessly blend in with the Russian speaking demonstrators and I think that the film crew’s real goal was to gauge the extent to which the protests in East Ukraine were being abetted by Russian military or intelligence assets.
gtranslate from kommersant: http://kommersant.ru/doc/2448528
Eustream offers Ukraine to reverse this variant, the investment in the construction of “loopback” and gas metering station is estimated at € 20 million in the European Commission confirmed the “Kommersant” that support the option to reverse the physical and expect that the construction of the necessary infrastructure can be completed before winter. However, the Ukrainian authorities to consider this way too long and insist on an immediate supply reversing, although Eustream they mean anyway breach of contract with “Gazprom”.
———————————
Well, that’s what you get for working with fantasist nutsos. Maidanists are dictating to EU how the EU will help them, refusing EU’s chosen approach which better legally shields EU from Gazprom, despite that said approach is possible before next winter season, i.e. still serves the purpose. BECAUSE…PUTIN? This is after first stating that EU transit will never be impeded. Everything about this Maidan coup is doomed.
At this point I think it should be clear that Russia is not interested in seeing the breakup of Ukraine. The reason should be clear. If that happens then there will be a nation of West Ukraine that is enclosed inside the Dniepr River. If the South, eastern (and a few northern) provinces split off then it would leave a fanatical Ukrainian nationalist (and neo Nazi) government behind. They would obviously invite in NATO.
This is not something Russia wants. What they do want is a neutral Ukraine that leans neither West or East. That is something they can live with.
The insurrections in eastern Ukraine are most likely spontaneous uprisings against the current coup government. It is not in Russia’s interest to promote those uprisings. That is probably why they seem so poorly organized without any central command. Unfortunately, for Russia, if the western Ukrainian forces try to violently suppress those uprisings it might leave Russian no choice but to go in support their breathen in eastern Ukraine. Once that happens Ukraine will dissolve.
This will certainly happen unless the US is willing to go to war to stop the dissolution of Ukraine. At this point the best response for the US is to recognize that the Russian speaking half of Ukraine have national rights and agree to Lavrov’s proposal for a federal solution.
In any case, I think the hysterical worries that western Ukrainians led by the right sector and other fascists are going to invade the eastern provinces are simply silly. It is not going to happen. If it did, Ukraine will cease to exist as it is known today.
Saker
“Furthermore, I would argue that the Russian-speaking population in the east of the Ukraine really has zero hopes of getting some kind of more or less civilized and reasonable negotiated agreement with the freaks in power in Kiev.”
I’m curious what you think might be the Israeli-American strategy on Ukraine? What they want this thing to be? If you don’t mind and have some time you feel like devoting to this question.
My own opinion on their goals hasn’t changed in the last couple months. In other words, I’m still of 2 minds about it. IE:
1. Israel-America want to “capture” the Ukraine more or less intact, to use like they do the Baltics and the majority of the rest of the ex-USSR territory under their thumb. This means they don’t want to see the Ukraine further splitting and losing more territory to the Russians, or civil war, or the locals giving them disruptive headaches.
2. The Israeli-Americans want to see the Ukraine degenerate into chaos, like they did to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya (and maybe Syria, too, though Israel wants Syrian land and resources, so genocide may be the motivator there, like with Palestine). Both to draw Russia into what the Israeli-Americans think will be Soviet vs Afghanistan Mk. II and bleed them similarly.
The 2 scenarios are quite different. Israeli-American strategy, as far as I can discern, usually attempted to colonise the victim. They resorted to wrecking countries only after they determined colonisation was not going to be possible. Recently, they stopped doing the first stage and have gone directly to the second in many places they run their attacks. This is what leads me to wonder whether zionazi-nazistan really wants the Ukraine, or just wants to destroy the region.
вот так
вот так,
They want to blow it up. Millions of refugees and a blow to Russian business would be a solid victory. Besides, capturing it in one piece and then running it would be too difficult.
They might want to capture the gas pipelines, but the important thing is to prevent Russia from getting close to Europe and Europe from getting close to a Eurasian model.
Paul
Dear Saker,
Thank you for your inputs, much appreciated.
It looks like some of the Russian speaking separatist are better prepared compared to your feedback.
Is this information reliable?
http://allainjules.com/2014/04/09/ukraine-lougansk-video-les-separatistes-dans-le-batiment-de-la-sbu-liberent-leurs-60-otages/
All best,
Pat
Option 1 lets them park missiles and harass the Russian fleet. But what the hell, if that’s too hard, option 2 can be their “plan”. They’ll take whatever is going.
– DM
I would bet that the Real Evil Empire desires Russian intervention. They are going to pillage Ukraine in any case, and by forcing Russia’s hand, by vicious repression of Russians in the east (and by a dodgy Presidential election)they get to paint Russia as the evil villain, Putin the new Stalin, or Hitler, or Fu Manchu or whatever, and the sanctions can be cranked up, and an excuse found for vengeance inflicted upon Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Venezuela or some other ‘easy pickin’s’. And letting the Banderists loose on Russians might stop them attacking Jews or fighting amongst themselves over their gangster activities.
De-invest from the West: Russia urges companies to return assets to the motherland
http://rt.com/business/russia-urges-stock-russia-397/
вот так
Генерал армии Грузии: Снайперов на Майдане наняла партия Саакашвили (General of the Army of Georgia: Sniping on Independence Party hired Saakashvili)
http://lifenews.ru/news/130907
(auto trans) “The former commander of the battalion “Avaz” Tristan Tsitelashvili reported that Ukrainians fired former subordinates of former Georgian president.
On the Independence were four Georgian sniper. They were there on direct order Saakashvili’s party, whose representatives have repeatedly advocated during the February unrest from the scene in Kiev. Reported by the agency “Gruzinform.”
– I just know the identity of those four people who were there as snipers, but in the interests of the investigation, I can not name them. Investigation materials in two weeks will be sent to the prosecutor. I can only say that these people – former employees of controlled Saakashvili superstructure. Former government trained them for just such cases. Their group in Kiev led Targamadze and Gia Baramidze – said General of the Georgian army, b yvshy battalion commander “Avaz” (“Panther”) Tristan Tsitelashvili.
Samopravozglashennaya Kiev authorities still can not answer, who were these snipers. In this new Ukrainian authorities are trying to blame all men of Special Forces “Berkut”. Although they too were victims of unknown mercenaries.
Back in March, the Internet appeared scandalous record phone conversations Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and Catherine Ashton, through which it became known that the snipers were hired representatives of the so-called Evromaydana.”
Translation is not so good, but to summarise: a Georgian general is claiming 4 of the snipers at maidan were professional Georgian snipers who were part of Saakashvili’s establishment and that Saakashvili was behind their use against the people in maidan. The general says he knows the identities of these 4 snipers.
вот так
Попытка ночного штурма Донецкой ОГА милицией не удалась (ФОТО) (Attempt a night assault Donetsk Regional Administration police failed (PHOTO)
http://www.politnavigator.net/popytka-nochnogo-shturma-doneckojj-oga-miliciejj-ne-udalas-foto.html
(auto trans) “Donetsk, April 9 (Navigator, Olga Nikolaeva) – On the night of April 8 to 9 in Donetsk police conducted an unsuccessful attempt to storm the building of the regional administration, which is held the third day of the pro-Russian protesters. The building is currently RSA remains under control of protesters.
It is reported by “municipal newspaper.”
Protesters blocked the 3 buses with police officers in full uniform, with shields and helmets, which drove up to the building of RSA. People surrounded the bus, shouting: “Berkut! Russia! Police with people! “.
Protesters they splashed into the windshield and on the first bus radiator fluid, similar to diesel. Thereafter buses backed off and left, said “Island”.
The building erected barricades of RSA sandbags and tires. Defending prepared bottles with “Molotov cocktails” and sidewalk paving.”
вот так
Status report on Lugansk:
В Луганске активисты в захваченном здании СБУ попрощались с семьями, а аэропорт взяли под контроль внутренние войска (In Lugansk, activists seized the building of the SBU said goodbye to their families, and the airport took control of internal forces)
http://www.politnavigator.net/v-luganske-aktivisty-v-zakhvachennom-zdanii-sbu-poproshhalis-s-semyami-a-aehroport-vzyali-pod-kontrol-vnutrennie-vojjska.html
The banderivtsy apparently fear landings at the airport.
вот так
I offer the following as one item of evidence that Saker has a badly distorted picture of the reality on the ground in eastern Ukraine:
The New York Times has a reporter in Donetsk today. The reporter describes the Donetsk demonstrators as “a thinning crowd of several hundred”. He says this little crew is fortifying barriers at their city center location and professing themselves to be the “Donetsk People’s Republic”. The reporter says:
“What began [a few days ago] as a single ring of barricades made of tires, barbed wire and bags of sand and rocks expanded Wednesday to include a second set of fortifications. But there was little sign that the protesters had expanded their support beyond a narrow fringe…. Local party barons held a news conference to denounce the seizure of official buildings and to call on protesters to quickly end their occupation and accept that Donetsk is part of Ukraine. “These people pose a bigger and bigger threat to the majority of the population,” said Nikolai Levchenko, head of the Donetsk branch of the Party of Regions and a member of Parliament in Kiev.” http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/world/europe/ukraine-russia.html
As a separate point from the above, I say that the following claim by Saker is a falsehood: “Anybody going to a pro-Russian demonstration is taking a huge risk. These people got attacked, beat up, arrested, disappeared, tortured, their cars burned, their homes and family attacked and they now even get shot at.” On the contrary, I say, (1) the security authorities in eastern Ukraine have been restrained and liberal towards the demonstrators so far and (2) we’ve seen very, very little presence of right-wing Ukrainian nationalist in eastern Ukrainian cities and even less of thuggery from them.
Saker asserts that one of the factors causing the demonstrator crowds to be small is that, among many people who would be potential demonstrators in eastern Ukraine, there’s a perception of a risk of physical harm; and people are afraid to turn up to protest because of the danger of getting hurt. That assertion is a crock of shit; it is based on a false and fictitious view of the reality in eastern Ukraine today. By the way, and although it’s beside the point, I came across similar crocks of shit in the Western news media in year 2011 to explain why people in Damascus and Aleppo were not turning up for anti-government protests in those cities, based once again on a false information of what was actually happening.
The current illegal and belligerent behavior by the few hundred pro-Russian protesters in Donetsk city is potentially somewhat undermining the pro-Russian cause, and is doing nothing that actually promotes it, as I see things.
@parviziyi:I offer the following as one item of evidence: The New York Times
Bwahahahaha!!! You really think that the readers of this blog will buy that kind of “evidence”?! Man, you should read their comments a little more carefully and get a feel for their intelligence and access to information.
Let me spell out something to you: folks come here because THEY ALREADY KNOW that the corporate media is chock-full of propaganda and lies. So quoting the very same media to them does not exactly make your case. Also, a lot of what we do here is about common sense. So considering the panic of the Kiev authorities, even admitted in the corporate press this morning, your attempts to explain it away by a few nasty pro-Russian extremists look stupid at best. I dare say that most readers will think that you insult their intelligence.
Ok, you are welcome to continue to try to convince us all that I am lying and the NYT is saying the truth, but I have to tell you that you are just making yourself look stupid. That is assuming you are a real person and not just a Pentagon computer bot ;-)
Most sincerely, ;-P
The Saker
@ Saker: No doubt we’ve both seen the photos and the videos from the demonstration site in Donetsk. Are you claiming that the numbers of demonstrators in those pictures is substantially greater than several hundred? Do you accept that the New York Times reporter in Donetsk is basically correct in his number of “several hundred” demonstrators. If your own estimate of the number is closer to a thousand than “several hundred”, it’s nitpicking and impotent. Moreover, it’s impotent for you to attack the credibility of the New York Times, because it’s changing the subject: we’re talking about the facts in Ukraine. I don’t give a shit about the New York Times. What I’m interested in is Ukraine. I take it that you, too, don’t give a shit about the New York Times. But yet you’re making no effort to address the facts in Ukraine when you talk about the New York Times.
I repeat, I’m reading you as being wrong on foundational reality in eastern Ukraine. Understanding reality is a separate thing from the political preferences of me, you and the New York Times. It happens that you and I have much the same political values in the Ukraine situation, but we don’t have the same interpretation of the reality in the situation. I repeat, your ad hominem remarks on the NY Times are beside the point.
@parviziyi: let’s separate two things here – the argument and you. Your argument: crowds are small. My reply to that is that you are wrong both on the figure and on their relevance. My previous posts already substantiate that so I won’t repeat them here. You: (this part will by necessity be an ad hominem as it is directed at you). You present as “evidence” the NYT which, imnsho, either makes you either a incurably naive and gullible person or a deliberate dis-informer. Your latest post does not seem to be written by a teenager, so I am inclined to lean to the second option. Whatever may be the case, you are definitely trying, for whatever reason, to minimize the seriousness of a situation which is clearly freaking out the regime in Kiev, EU and the US. So you are the functional equivalent of a street corner flat-earth society advocate – making silly claims and not realizing that nobody takes you seriously.
Ok, enough, you have wasted enough of my time on you, so I am done answering your posts. Anybody else with the patience and inclination to do so is welcome to take over.
My parting advice to you: if you want to continue posting here, change nickname and start with a clean slate, under your current nick your credibility is basically roadkill.
Good luck,
The Saker
A Public Opinion Poll published 9 Apr 2014 by the Ukrainian Institute for Social Research and Policy Analysis shows that 66% of Donetsk citizens want to live in a united Ukraine versus 18% that support a political Union with Russia, while only 4.7% of the citizens of Donetsk prefer to live in an independent republic. Around 16% of the respondents declare the occupation of administration buildings as positive, while 77% criticize it as a wrong method. My source in English: http://www.euronews.com/2014/04/09/live-ukraine-pro-russian-separatists-reinforce-barricades-in-luhansk-and-donetsk/ . That source in turn is citing Ukrainian language source http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/04/9/7021883/ which has more details about the poll (and this poll is being widely reported in Ukrainian language news sources, yesterday and today, e.g. news.liga.net).
The poll was conducted at the end of March on a representative sample of all residents of Donetsk. I didn’t track down info on the credentials of the Donestsk Institute for Social Research and Policy Analysis and their polling methods. But I’m comfortable with presuming that the numbers from the poll are a good reflection of the political reality in Donetsk. Reflecting the local public opinion, most of the elected politicians of the Donetsk region oppose the current occupation of government buildings by protesters. Yesterday, 9 Apr 2014, many of the top Donetsk politicans attended a collective press conference in which they declared their position. This press conference was a newsworthy piece of concrete news yesterday and it was mentioned by the New York Times report yesterday, which I linked to earlier.
Public opinion in Donetsk makes for a totally different political reality from the reality in Crimea. If you reply that that’s not new news, I counter-reply that you’ve not been incorporating this aspect of reality into your foundations, and that’s an error.
Parviziyi is a zionazi sayan who trolls quite a few sites under that name.
вот так
The following is a Ukraine-wide poll conducted March 14-26 by a Gallup affiliate in Ukraine. The money to do this poll was provided by the U.S. Agency for International Development, and the poll questions were designed and written by a USA-based, pro-Western, anti-Russian, policy organization (IRI.org). It was published in PDF fileformat 4 Apr 2014: Ukraine poll March 2014 from IRI.org. The poll report is lengthy, and the second half of the report contains useful information about the political landscape in Ukraine, notwithstanding that the wording of the questions is tilted in favour of a pro-Western mindset. The poll shows a big divergence between western and eastern Ukraine in people’s political opinions about current affairs. The majority of the questions in the poll show bigly different results for western and eastern regions. This poll also shows that candidate Petro Poroshenko is almost certain to win the presidential election on 25 May 2014, even though he has very little support in the east and south. The pro-Russian Ukrainians have no viable candidate in this presidential contest — that’s clear in this poll.