By Allen Yu for the Saker Blog
Donald Trump was elected with a mandate to make deals and “drain the swamp.” I had my doubts he could make a difference in the geopolitical realm. But even on economic matters, he has not had a lot of success. His Tiktok saga reveals just how far he has left people down.
Trump’s demand for a fire sale of Tiktok hit a legal wall two weekends ago when a federal judge issued a preliminary injunction. Judge Carl Nichols, a Trump appointee, questioned whether a President had the legal authority to so broadly ban and restrict a “personal communication” and “informational” service such as Tiktok on “national security” grounds.
But even without the injunction, Trump’s vaunted deal-making skills were fast morphing into a freak show. From the beginning, Trump made unsubstantiated accusation that Tiktok was being used as a platform for Chinese espionage even when the CIA found no evidence of Chinese espionage. The EFF – which traditionally has been critical of China’s Internet companies – has also concluded that there is no evidence that TikTok is less secure than other social media apps.
Side note – Lesson #1: if you want to negotiate from a position of strength, you should not start out with a preposterous position, as you will soon lose the trust and belief of the other side. A negotiation is the art of find a deal that both sides walk away happy. If you just want to pummel the other to submission, any “gains” you get will not last.
In late September, after months of negotiations, a surprise deal was announced between Byte Dance and Oracle whereby Byte Dance’s operations outside China would be transformed into a new global company headquartered in Texas. Under the deal initially announced by Oracle late last September, Tiktok would be transformed into a new company headquartered in Texas. Oracle and partner Walmart would co-own 20% of the new company. Oracle would be designated a “trusted technology provider” to manage and store all of Tiktok’s user data. It would have the authority to audit source codes of Tiktok and parent company Byte Dance.
In addition, four of the five board members of the new Tiktok would be Americans, with one being a data security expert appointee approved by the U.S. government and holding a top-secret U.S. security clearance. A security committee whose members would be US citizens approved by the US government would be formed and chaired by the appointee.
Based on Chinese social media responses, this state affair was a big loss of not only face but business interests for China. Yet, from the jaws of defeat, Byte Dance was complimented for salvaging something out of nothing.
After initially giving his “blessings” to the deal, Trump backtracked just days later to demand that the core algorithms and AI behind Tiktok – designed, owned and controlled by Byte Dance – must be sold and handed over, too.
The fact that Tiktok is getting all this attention over data security is quite puzzling. Tiktok is a video sharing service for short, hip, fun videos popular among teens, hardly a target for international spying. An email, chatting, or cloud storage service would have represented far juicier targets for Chinese agents!
Furthermore, the U.S. currently does not have any federal-level data privacy law, let alone data security law. Authorities generally leave it to the “market place” and “competition” to keep companies in check. If the U.S. government is truly worried about the data security of American citizens, it should have gone after Facebook, Twitter, and Google and forced a change of ownership some time ago!
Some observers have suggested that the real reason for Trump’s attack on Tiktok is personal vengeance after K-pop fans on Tiktok allegedly sabotaged his first “post-Coronavirus” rally in Tulsa back in June. If so, this would be a major strategic blunder.
While the world’s Internet is currently dominated by American companies, strong political backlash against U.S. based Internet companies are already brewing across the globe, from Europe to India. If Trump manages to whip up nationalistic fervors around the world to carve up Internet companies on trumped-up “national security” charges, it will be mostly American companies that will be on the chopping blocks.
Side note – Lesson #2: you should negotiate with a solid understanding of the end goals – with good strategies. Merely appearing good “reality TV” fashion for political gain will net you little in the end. One can argue, the U.S. “wars on terror” and fights for “democracy” are such. They will hurt many … but they will not gain the U.S. much. Same here in the economic realm … as here with Tiktok.
Many Americans have falsely taken comfort in the thought that Trump’s actions constituted long overdue payback against Chinese government’s banning of U.S. Internet companies. In actuality, Trump’s actions are much more destructive than any policy enacted by the Chinese government.
Contrary to popular beliefs, China has always welcomed U.S. Internet companies to operate in China, provided they follow Chinese laws and respect government’s concerns over information that incite, misinform, defame, or that otherwise endanger national security. While some companies – such as Facebook, Google, and Twitter – have avoided China with much fanfare over “censorship” concerns, others – such as Microsoft and Apple – have done quite well after setting up Internet operations within China.
America has often made China into the world’s bogeyman over censorship. But China or not, there is no such thing as “freedom of speech.” Today American companies, including Google, censor on behalf of governments the world over on diverse issues such as privacy, blasphemy, defamation and hate speech to disinformation, copyright and national security. Just look to Twitter, Facebook, and Google’s “transparency report” for some shocking statistics.
Today, the Trump Administration is trying to make another bogeyman out of China over “data security.” But of course, the real question is whether the U.S. – and the world – can accept a second generation of globally spanning Internet companies that are not necessarily American.
Should only companies from certain nations be trusted? Is corporate governance sufficient to regulate globally spanning multinational companies? Or must we rely on some sort of forced nationalization?
Side note – if there is ever one topic I fundamentally and deeply disagree with the Saker about, it is on the notions of “freedom of speech.” For me, there is no such thing as “freedom of speech.” There are always limits and contingencies to speech, limits that depend on a society and its history, whether it be blasphemy, defamation, misinformation, disinformation, a violation of privacy or of copyright, hate speech, speech that incite, speech that spur violence, speech that undermines national security, and so on.
I find it fascinating that so many “liberal” free speech zealots have no qualms about the government making rules to ensure food and drug labeling are accurate yet … at least until very recently … these same folks are ok with disinformation and misinformation in the political arena.
In China, disinformation and misinformation has been recognized as a problem since the earliest days of the Internet. This is why China built its GFW. Let me give you an example.
Just earlier this week, there was an interesting story about Facebook and Twitter restricting the spread of a controversial New York Post article critical of Joe Biden and his son’s relationship to a Ukrainian company. Facebook restricted links to the article on grounds it couldn’t independently verify the story. Twitter restricted on the ground that they don’t publish “private” information or “hacked” information.
Would they be so gracious about restricting things when it comes to China?
I say, to the extent the West seems “freer” in the past, it’s only because of two things. One, in recent history, the West had been so much stronger than others. It was under so much less threat than others. There was just always so much less that constituted a threat to its social and national security. But this might be changing. Two, at least in modern history, the West has always monopolized the narrative regarding the social and political issues of our days. What is “censorship” by others is always anything but censorship when done in the West. There are always some righteous and obviously legitimate reasons to limit speech – whether it be defamation, privacy, hate speech, violence, blasphemy, national security, whatever. The issue of “freedom of speech” never even enter the analysis.
Here are a few recent examples.
Just two years ago, Zuckerberg cited Holocaust denial as an example of permissible free speech. However, just this past week, Mark Zuckerberg is saying that Facebook would ban content that “denies or distorts the Holocaust.”
Also consider this thing about Russia meddling in America. In the last few years, national security concerns have loomed large as many Americans became paranoid about Russia’s spending of a mere $100K could sway the 2016 elections. Social media companies are urged to do all sorts of things to limit “foreign influence.” Left undiscussed is what about the “foreign influence” this country perpetrates in other countries? Let’s not even go into the armed or political support – what of the voice of America, the national endowment for democracy – institutions that spew “foreign paid” misinformation and disinformation around the world?
Some Americans may reply: what of “foreign influence” if it helps to dig up the truth? Well, if that’s so, why do America care so much about “foreign influence” then? Also, why is there such focus on “foreign” interest but almost nothing on “domestic” special interests? To the extent some powers are “distorting” the “free marketplace of ideas,” aren’t “domestic” special interest just as dangerous to democracy as “foreign” interests?
In an explosive report by the Wall Street Journal, we have learned that it was Mark Zuckerberg who had been instilling in Washington “national security” concerns over Tiktok. Zuckerberg had privately lobbied Trump to do something about Tiktok. Coincidentally, Zuckerberg’s company Facebook owns a service called Reels that had thus far competed unsuccessfully with Tiktok and that would have the most to gain from continued uncertainties at Tiktok.
The specter of Larry Ellison – a personal friend and ardent supporter of President Trump – has also raised eyebrows. While Microsoft was the clear front runner to purchase Tiktok in early August, it was Oracle that ended up as the “surprise” victor in late September. According to a report by the Washington Post, Microsoft’s deal would have given the U.S. even more control over Tiktok’s data and in that sense addressed Trump’s concerns about “national security” even better.
Mixing private and public interests has always been an unfortunate hallmark of the U.S. government.
In targeting Tiktok, Trump has boasted that he expected political and financial paybacks for his attacks. On several occasions, Trump publicly demanded that whoever buys Tiktok pay a “finder’s fee” to the U.S. Treasury. After the Oracle deal was announced, Trump bragged that Tiktok had agreed to pay $5 billion to the Treasury and a special education fund to teach American children “the real history of our country.”
In an age when Americans have been on openly edge over foreign governments’ spending money on social media to influence elections, what should Americans think about their President soliciting billions from a “foreign adversary” to support his “pet barrel” projects?
It is really too bad that Trump’s rally cry of “America First” has turned into an ideology based on xenophobia. When Trump became president, I was fascinated by his tentative outreach to Russia and China … and his criticism of NATO and other aspects of the American “empire.” However, after four years, he has shown he is incapable of changing the course of this aspect of American history.
If the West wants to decouple with China, so be it. If the West wants to give up the Chinese market, so be it. In Trump’s view, the West had helped to “built up” China. In my view, to the extent the West “built up” China, China also “built up” much of today’s West.
America and Europe were in despair with high inflation, unemployment, and low productivity growth at the end of the 1970’s. China’s entrance into the global trade system ushered in a new period of continued prosperity in the West. China not only provided the West with steady and reliable supply of basic goods and services, it also built up a new prosperous middle class and opened up its huge market to the world. U.S. corporations reaped disproportionately huge profits – profits that are used to fund the R&D needed for further advances in chips, Internet, among others.
Whether Tiktok or Huawei survives the Trump Administration, the Chinese are no longer willing to indefinitely subsidize American R&D going forward. Efforts are afoot for Chinese companies to remove their dependence on critical American technologies – from electronic parts to chips to software to machinery – throughout their supply chain. They will demand this of themselves and of their partners in Europe and Japan and S. Korea and everyone around the world. A new ecosystem will soon arise that is intentionally stripped of critical “American” components and technology to better serve the Chinese market. This will be the lasting influence of Trump. China has no choice. China may suffer in the short term, but China is determined to win in the long term.
[note: a short, much abridged version of this article was initially published as a “commentary” on the South China Morning Post]
Allen Yu is an IP attorney in Silicon Valley, a founding blogger at blog.hiddenharmonies.org, as well as an adjunct fellow at the Chunqiu Institute for Development and Strategic Studies. He holds a J.D. from Harvard Law School and a D. Engr., M.S., and B.S. from UCLA Samueli School of Engineering.
Do you understand, Allen, that the electorate in ANY country, but especially the heavily targetted (by entertainment fantasies, Fake News, Fear Porn etc) USA ………..is rather simple minded??
And that it is very hard for most American voters to deal with complex, highly nuanced situations with ANY element of Contradiction Of The Main Narrative in them???
And that we have a presidential election looming right now, to occur in 16 days???
Given all of the above, I think it would be more prudent to hold off on such drastic conclusions……for perhaps minimally ……ONE MONTH.
At that point, more or less, it may be possible for the Tik ToK “negotiations” to take a more definitive turn for the better.
I say this never having used Tik Tok, having no need for cluttering my life with Social Media Noise, not knowing the merits or absurdities of DJT’s position on the matter……but being 100% convinced that whatever all of those things amount to………….
they don’t amount to “a hill of beans”
……. compared to getting the US and the World safely past the Deep State Dummy Joe Biden and his # Me Too Running “Mate” Kamala.
Patience needs Yu!
And Yu needs Patience.
Yeah because the world with the guy who is destroying all arms regulation treaties, who kills foreign generals, who is threatening and sanctioning many countries… is so much safer.
Negociations on tiktok just like Jcpoa and negociations on start 3 treaty just show the absolute joke the US has become. The US was already a joke before trump but With Trump the US has become an even bigger joke and faster than I was expecting.
I see no reason why anyone at all should “hold off” on anything because of the USA elections.
That is kind of “handicapping” in a race.
The US has to compete internally and externally in all circumstances. If it can only score if handed the ball on a quiet courtwell, why in the world should any pundit, or any “ref,” or China itself this??? Or, for that matter, why should the Repugs “hold off” on their SCOTUS hearings just to give a free shot to the Dems? Just to avoid confusing the hapless voters and create an oversimplified black-white picture for them?
All is fair in love and war.
Katherine
Allen, these are acts of plunder from a US admin out of control. The WeChat ban went by very quickly, so that one could not even really notice it, the adventures with Android did not really amount to anything for the normal person, the Huawei issues have dragged on. TikTok though in a short moment of time encapsulates the current ethos of pure plunder. Unfortunately these people have a very poor sense of what they are really doing.
A misleading title inferring that Trump failed America because he failed with Tiktok.
I think the electorate in US does not care what Trump does with Tiktok.
I think you are right. The electorate does not care. And there-in lies the problem and we remain with a dumbed down electorate that votes for war every time. Because they do not care and think the world revolves around them.
@Amarynth. Couldn’t resist this quote from Ramin on the electorate:
” If you mention Ignorance and Apathy the electorate answers, ‘I don’t know and I don’t care’ “
Does that describe the electorate in US or every where?
There maybe focus on some issues and silence on others. I think Ticktok falls in the latter category.
This is all a ploy by Zuck to gain market share when Tiktok steamed rolled reels on downloads. TT was one of the most downloaded apps of the last year and was really a replacement for Vines which younger users loved. Facebook is used overseas by a number of users and not so much in america unless you count the older demographics (55+) who use it to stay in touch with friends and see who died. LINE, WeChat, Zalo, and other apps which are super apps, with payment applications built into them are eating FB and other western app’s lunch. FB wants to be a major player in the China market and brought out their lame version called Reels, which is a piece of junk imho.
As sanctions and out right racist attitudes are pushed forth by the anglozionist msm in america, China high tech will continue to beat the pants off of america apps and tech. Read the great book by Dr. Kia-Fu Lee called AI Superpowers that tells the story of how super apps were created and how competition and innovation led the way to advances in computer tech. Former head of Google China, MIT trained and someone on the ball. Well worth following.
China remembers each and every day, the 100 years of Humiliation by the west and will continue to more forward, not by bombs and regime change, but by trade and growth for the benefit of both parties.
We live in interesting times.
List of Websites and Apps Blocked in China for 2020. (Isn’t it sometimes best to be quiet and not humiliate oneself? LOL!):
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
Snapchat
Pinterest
Quora
Tumblr
Reddit
AO3
YouTube
DailyMotion
Vimeo
Twitch
Periscope
Pandora
Spotify
Soundcloud
Google (text and voice)
Amazon (Alexa)
Wikipedia
Yahoo
DuckDuckGo
WhatsApp
Facebook Messenger
Telegram
Line
Signal
KaKao Talk (Korean)
So is Netflix and any Falun Gong site. The Saker is not blocked.
The difference here is blocked. They did not try to steal these sites.
@amarynth
Trump’s correct first instinct was to ban (block) Tik Tok. In fact all Social Media should be banned or at least broken up into a million pieces. In fact smart phones should be minimum age 21+.
It was the Wall Street and Globalist Social Media “Tech Companies” whining, lobbying that they wanted to continue profiting or get in on the action. Trump should have defied their pressure and told them to take a hike. Unfortunate.
However let each country make apps for their own citizens. That is where it should end.
Better for Tik Tok to sell or share profits rather then be blocked, and not have any profits at all and nothing to sell, as the companies listed above. Hmm?
Every country is (should be) allowed a degree of internet sovereignty. Otherwise, physical sovereignty matters little.
Without the PRC, Western social media/apps/software would be truly ubiquitous (cyber-globalism).
Problem is, Russia has for instance repeatedly called for international set of rules in the cybersphere. But the West wants the take-it-all, first-come-first-(and-only)-served approach.
Remember the PRC built the “Great Firewall” also to avoid color revolutions (usually unnaturally induced through Western social media).
You can download all of those apps and access all of those sites with a VPN, which is not illegal in China. In reality the Chinese population doesn’t access them because they feel western media is bias or they have just as good or better equivalents to choose from.
And in that spirit Americans can use a VPN to download Tik Tok very soon.
Man, how did the world survive, and how was there any fun at all without Tik Tok, (and any other social media for that matter)?
How can any country survive without Tik Tok? It would be a national tragedy. lol
American apps have a monopoly in the world, it is natural to suppress any monopoly.
US government is against tiktok because they are afraid tiktok could be spreading Chinese fake news which could compete with US MSM.
American MSM is sponsored by the Chinese Communist Party, more or less. Same goes for the Democratic Party, and Rhino republicans. These parties projected this interference falsely, on Russia.
See Hunter Biden’s laptop;)
“And in that spirit Americans can use a VPN to download Tik Tok very soon.”
Why would Americans need to use a VPN? Unlike China, India, and Australia there’s no national firewall in place to block traffic in or out of the US. Trump can only block the app from being available on stores such as Google Play and the Apple App Store. In the case of Android it’s trivial to download the app from anywhere and install unlike Apple and their “walled garden” that requires a jailbreak.
US could also seize the top level domain, but you just register the name outside of the US with a country code instead. Problem solved. Do you even know how this stuff works?
Let’s not be facetious. Americans use VPN’s very frequently to access sites such as foreign versions of Netflix, torrents, for privacy, etc. A tik tok block using methods of a national firewall, could very well be in the works.
VPNS such as Nord, are a lucrative business in the USA and the west. Do you even know how this stuff works?
“A tik tok block using methods of a national firewall, could very well be in the works.”
In the US? Good luck with that. There are so many free speech advocacy groups here that any bill mandating a national firewall would be dead on arrival. Your statement was about using a VPN for downloading TikTok, not about privacy issues or spoofing inbound traffic.
“Do you even know how this stuff works?”
In my country we have a saying. Teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. You should probable heed the warning.
In your case, naivety and wishful thinking is not an argument. Internet censorship in the US is currently at record highs, and one would have to be truly silly in not realizing that if the globalist ” big tech firms” were on board, they could make Tik Tok disappear. And by doing that they would still be way behind China, as per the list in my original post here.
Spotify is not banned it just hasn’t launched yet in mainland China.
Yahoo website and mail is available in China, just not the search engine.
Twitter and Quora are available using a government approved VPN. It is not illegal to use such a VPN and the sellers of such VPN are Chinese state owned companies.
WhatsApp is replaced by a proprietary apps WeChat.
I didn’t go through each and every item, but there ‘s a whole story behind why the app/website is not available such as ban, copyright issues, not yet launched etc.
anyways, so what? It’s called digital protectionism, and everyone is doing it. (US with Tiktok, India with Tiktok, Shareit, UCbrowser. Partial, temporary bans on Twitter in France, Israel, India, Turkey, Iran, Russia, South Korea… etc)
Serbian Girl said:
“anyways, so what? It’s called digital protectionism, and everyone is doing it. (US with Tiktok, India with Tiktok, Shareit, UCbrowser. Partial, temporary bans on Twitter in France, Israel, India, Turkey, Iran, Russia, South Korea… etc)”
My point exactly and the raison d’être of my post:) Now someone go tell Allen Yu….
Where are you from, Rostislav? Where are you writing this from?
I am wondering why it is relevant for you , where I am from? My posts above do not touch on origins. I am Slavic.
This sounds strange to me. Got any more information on these alleged government approved VPNs that allow you access to pages the government bans? This would mean it’s not prohibited, but just a business model. Curious here.
Expat,
For those apps like quora, which have been banned due to content being flagged by an algorithm, one can, apparently, buy a government approved VPN.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Quora-banned-now-2020-in-China-without-recourse-to-a-VPN?top_ans=193935816
Not sure what what happens if it’s a legal issue like copyright. Also, in practice not sure how easy/ difficult it is to get such a VPN…
If you are in China, then we know very well that vpn’s are illegal here, although they are usually allowed.. A cat-and-mouse game occasionally happens, when the bigger VPns, say Express or Nord, are blocked.. The locals use their domestic versions with few reported legal problems..
It is always amusing to read the outsider commentariat and their 99% success rate at knowing nothing about the real China..
Cheers from Yunnan
eddie, from a technical perspective VPN’s are not illegal in China. It is a technology that most big providers or big business cannot do without. It is simply internet technology being an encrypted tunnel between you and some server. Any halfway competent internet tech can set up a VPN in a hot half hour or shorter.
Where they frown is in terms of what you are doing with it. Far as I know, in the whole of 2020 not one foreigner was arrested for using a VPN. If you are good with the .gov, and your work is transparent with the .gov, you are allowed to use a VPN as it is just a technology that is commonly used. If you bypass the firewall for porn or clearly restricted apps, you may get into trouble if you are caught. Usually they delete the apps from say your phone, and let you go on your way.
VPN’s are not illegal. Some providers of VPN services may be questionable. I am updating technical skills for myself and at the moment watching an experiment here .. some Chinese techs with some crypto techs from outside China and they are happily using something way beyond VPN. I jumped in the convo and asked .. and the Chinese say .. of course not, of course we need VPN’s and what we are doing now is not illegal and not even immoral.
In China they say, it depends what you use it for.
Two things jumped to my attention from your article :
1. About the reason big capital pushed ‘globalization-financialization-technologism’ by the end of the nineteen-sixties and nineteen-seventies :
You write “America and Europe were in despair with high inflation, unemployment, and low productivity growth at the end of the 1970’s. China’s entrance into the global trade system ushered in a new period of continued prosperity in the West. ” China effectively saved the day for Western economies over the following decades.
But your characterization of what really took place in America and Europe at the end of the seventies, while true, was not the cause of ‘globalization-financialization-technologism’. The real cause had appeared in the sixties when big capital holders had observed that their profits were no longer growing. You merely talk about the social consequences that followed the end of profit growth on invested capital.
‘Globalization-financialization-technologism’ were conceived as the solution to expand profit growth on invested capital by opening the whole world to the investments of Western big capital holders. In other worlds increasing the profits on the investments of Western big capital holders was the real cause of ‘Globalization-financialization-technologism’….
China had understood why Western big capital holders needed the opening of the world’s borders and it judiciously caught the opportunity by opening up and letting its people learn from Western capital, technology and industrial culture… Note that this move by China was in following the lessons given in “The Analects” which, in my eyes, is the most important Confucian classic. The Analects advises indeed that there is nothing to gain from the conquest of foreign lands. The better judgment, Confucius says, is to stay home and grow one’s own economy. The reason is that once one’s own economy grows strong foreigners are attracted and rush to bring their capital, their technology, their culture to one’s nation in order to share in the profits of one’s growing economy. By following Confucius wisdom and adopting Marx’s knowledge about capital the CPC was rewarded beyond its leaders’ wildest dream.
2. About China’s push for autonomy in term of technology and finance :
You are certainly right that, under Trump’s mafia-like technological and financial blackmailing, the US forced China’s hand. This fact has indeed irremediably changed the Chinese calculus about an integrated global world. There is no longer any possibility today for China to rely on US dependence in matters of technology and finance. And so as you justly write “the Chinese are no longer willing to indefinitely subsidize American R&D going forward. Efforts are afoot for Chinese companies to remove their dependence on critical American technologies – from electronic parts to chips to software to machinery – throughout their supply chain”.
The consequence of this state of affairs is that within a short few years China will no longer need the US technologically nor financially. That day the status, of the US in the world, will have shifted radically. And as I write, in “a first societal blow in Late-Modernity“, that day Trump will be the most hated US citizens for having forced his fellow- citizens to live in the squalor of a third-world nation …
There were alternatives available to Western capital- Africa, India, MENA region, South America, but they chose to go to China. Why?
The expectation/assumption was that as China became a middle income it would naturally take on multi party politics and an economy that permitted unrestricted access for Western finance. This hasn’t happened so far.
All is not lost yet- if China were to allow unrestricted access for Western finance it would be forgiven and all would be fine and China would be receiving praises.
@laodan
“‘Globalization-financialization-technologism’ were conceived as the solution to expand profit growth on invested capital by opening the whole world to the investments of Western big capital holders”.
The solution mentioned above was called it “Neo-colonialism” by third world intellectuals of the sixties. The third world leaders chose to collaborate with the Western big capital holders in the plundering hence the status quo obtains today. However starting from the nineties, we have seen a shift in the identity of the big capital holder from being western to becoming increasingly Asian. Below I give a brief description of the two types of colonizers of the third world.
The western colonizer obtained his position by force/violence, then he used religion , education, culture, politics & economics (land capture) as tools for conditioning his victims minds in preparation for permanent domination. The western colonizer would then govern a captured country using a corporation model with a racist flare in it’s ranks. Infrastructure development is done to meet the interest of the corporation not to cater for the needs of the people (commodity)
The Asian colonizer in the third world refers to various Chinese & Indian traders who have captured economic control of whole countries & regions, in the wake of the chaotic western departure from those areas.. People in the third world equate these Asian colonizers to the locust plaque or to the malpractice of milking a cow without feeding it. They practice extreme levels of exploitation/extraction, racism & corruption, yet they offer nothing in return (Europeans offered crumbs at least). The situation is so bad that a hot conflict is inevitable between ordinary people and these Asian colonizers
“How Trump failed America”. But did he fail? Trump simply lays the Empire bare. With no “freedom and democracy” façade, as in the hypocritical discourse of both democrats and neocons. This isn’t good for world stability, but it’s easier to deal with an enemy that doesn’t sell himself as a philanthropist.
The governor of Maryland (Republican) just casted a vote for Ronald Reagan (???).
Didn’t Reaganomics bring about the very world Trump was elected to change? The “communists” did not destroy the West, it was the very neocons which deregulated-privatized everything and supported corporate control. The Western elite destroyed the West.
United States is a funny place where neocons (religious Puritans; god, guns and Capitalism – yes, Capitalism in capital letters and not god) are closer to democrats (secular Puritans; political correctness, statue toppling) than to Trumpism. They both want to spread their so-called universal values. Trump seems closer to an ordinary Protestant, more isolationist and less enthusiastic (read: batshit crazy) than most American Christians. Problem is, the batshit generally support him.
It seems Trump deliberately pushes adversaries away, in a dialectics of pressuring them and giving them space. Not because he’s “in cahoots with Putin” or because he’s a saint, but because the main idea is to bring the necessary decline of the American Empire as soon as possible, in order to rebuild it. A sort of accelerationism. Whether the discourse afterwards turns towards the nation-State and an ordinary United States (doubtful, considering the power and inertia of neocons), or whether that’s cover to support America-fuck-yeah-PNNAC-2.0 (where NN = new new) is unclear. And Democrats would only make it a feminist-LGBT-PNAC.
And there are other sorts of questions. Within this “pushing away”, the threat of regionalized neo-feudalism appears, including virtualization and (localized) digital totalitarianism. But without it, globalism remains (and digital totalitarianism). From the point of view of the world, what’s most desirable?
I would say the world does not wish a strong United States. It does not wish total chaos and destruction either, as too much chaos in the US will destabilize the world. And too much smoothness will restore the US too soon. And there are 192 countries (out of 193) eager to see a weaker United States. Only we don’t want so much chaos, because probably we know good Americans or people who live there, and we are not heartless.
On the “civil war” dualism: dualism is simplification of reality. But taking it for granted, there are as usual good and bad points in both sides. Some of the things conservatives say are true, some of the things progressives say are true. Depending on what the world wants, it’s possible to work with both of them even simultaneously, depending on emphasis and potential.
I profoundly disagree with this:
“Side note – if there is ever one topic I fundamentally and deeply disagree with the Saker about, it is on the notions of “freedom of speech.” For me, there is no such thing as “freedom of speech.” There are always limits and contingencies to speech, limits that depend on a society and its history, whether it be blasphemy, defamation, misinformation, disinformation, a violation of privacy or of copyright, hate speech, speech that incite, speech that spur violence, speech that undermines national security, and so on.”
Freedom of speech is integral to the concept of an individual with inalienable birthrights as a human and the equalizing social contract of every person living under the Rule of Law. Rights and responsibilities, they are bundled, especially in the US Constitution.
Pointing to the several legal restraints put on “Speech” that changes the freedom right to less than absolute is begging the question. Freedom of speech at its constitutional heart is the absolute right to speak against the government and office holders. So the panoply of Free Speech rights includes freedom of association, freedom of assembly, freedom to practice religion or not, freedom to publish and distribute almost anything.
These rights are absolute and cannot be diminished. What does bear weight against these actions of free speech are Rules of Law. For instance, I can’t hold a meeting of 250 people in a hall the fire department has judged should only hold 125 people. Just like the landlord can be forced to install fire alarms and sprinkler systems and have clearly marked Exits in case of emergency.These aren’t limits on Free Speech. They are common sense safety factors. In a street demonstration, the police usually restrict placard signs affixed to wood sticks to sticks of very thin size so they offer no danger to be used as weapons. Thicker wood must be abandoned and the police usually destroy them. Common sense safety. When picketing an enterprise only a small portion of the front of the property not blocking entrances and driveways are allowed for the picketers to parade. Sometimes, they are sent across the street from the location. You are allowed to picket, even to use a loudspeaker at times, but you are not allowed to blockade the enterprise. Common sense.
Most people in most democratic countries don’t use their freedom of speech.
Even with safety and common sense limits, those Rule of Law aspects that rest on our Freedoms, Freedom of Speech is very robust. So robust, that the government uses all the weapons of Fascism and Propaganda to battle the truths uttered by simple citizens who challenge the status quo, the corruption, the evil deeds of government. If anything, governments are terrified by Freedom of Speech. And as we see everyday in every democratic nation, the government is the tyranny most people fight. Certainly, the government is the biggest organized criminal group the people have to fear and battle, not some external threat.
The more ideological the government, the more the tendency to limit freedoms. This is why I despise ideologies. They all become total tyrannies. Not much worth to discussing Freedoms under Ideological governments. For those societies, ideological dogmas become dominant and freedoms are minimized, mainly because the individual is also minimized. The sacred idea of the ideology becomes paramount. Even the concept of Rule of Law is replaced with the rules of the ideology. These smother individuality and the birthright freedoms.
“the individual”
“the birthright freedoms.”
“freedom of speech”
which are ideological constructs – illustrations that ideology is immersive akin to a swimming pool from which you emerge carrying water-droplets, given that in some assay all coercive social relations and failures to test hypotheses through implementation are ideological, as illustrated by “We the people hold these truths to be self-evident…” , and/or the discussions about the slogans of the French Revolution first draft of which was Liberte, Egalite,Propertie which was rebranded as Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite after consideration of former associates efforts in respect of “The American Constitution” (apologies for lack of acutes), states of acuteness often being best left to opponents.
Having an understanding of “French” history when Mr. Chou En Lai was asked what he thought of the French Revolution he answered approximately – Its to soon determine.
@Larchmonter445,
This is exactly what I tried to dispel. The limitations on freedom of speech are not tangential … or just peripheral. It is central, inherent part of the “freedom.” The limitations to speech I pointed out may seem legitimate, even “natural” or even “self-evident.” Surely any society that respects “rule of law” understands “freedom of speech” shall be limited by “legitimate” actions of the law.
Freedom of speech is not “absolute” not matter how “firmly” you believe it to be inalienable.
The “right” wanes and flexes with the needs of the times. In times of great national calamity, where speech can easily incite and provoke violence in an unstable society, lots of restrictions will be placed. In times of relative peace or when great societal apathy, great freedom will be allowed.
So it has always been.
But more than this “realist” aspect of “freedom of speech,” there is the more “sinister” part. As I mentioned, there are restrictions based because of so many things, defamation, libel, national security, hate speech, copyright … and more recently disinformation, misinformation, privacy, etc., etc. When we have a good “justification” for limiting speech, it’s OK to limit it. But of course, we can come up with justifications. If there is a political will, there will be a way.
I am not talking about partisan politics, I am talking about if there is a real genuine societal consensus, the right will be limited. So much for a right, eh?
The best case studies are to be done by comparing all the things China complained about. The West just won’t respect any of its concerns about violence and national security. They are just ignored, laughed at, or even attacked. Heck, CCP is evil hence China deserves to be destabilized – disinformation, misinformation, truth be damned.
The art of “freedom” is to define the underlying narrative. What is censorship in China is not in the West. There is always a good reason for it.
You call that an “absolute right”?
The author has conveniently ignored data that does not confirm his hypothesis. Before covid19 “magically” happened, both US and the UK economies were doing phenomenally well with lowest ever unemployment in the recent memory. Black and hispanic communities in the US were doing very well and Trump was pretty much guaranteed a second term.
Trump has delivered on most of what he had promised. To simply run on drain the swap itself is phenomenal given how “conspiracies” are treated by corporate media with shared interests. He made it a national conversation. That alone is a big achievement.
Well, I don’t think I believe you :-)
The economy was doing so well that Mr Trump had to call trade wars all over the place to try and claw back.
In general people can laugh about social media (while communicating right here on social media), but that would be a serious underestimation of communication today, as well as the technologies needed to run these apps.
I don’t think I believe you either, LOL. One of his key platforms was no more foreign interventions and a new era of cooperation. Moving troops and equipment from one country to another, such as from Germany to Poland is not ending foreign interventions. Assassinating foreign representatives of a state is also not what he promised.
The government’s numbers for unemployment are doctored. The economy never recovered from the 2008 fiasco and in spite of what Trump declares, the stock market is not the economy. The stock market is the playground for the gambler bankers and corporations Trump represents. He didn’t even stop the funding to planned parenthood. He canceled funding for WHO but then he gave it to the main funder of WHO, Bill Gates and his other pet projects. What I see is a reality tv con man.
“zealots have no qualms about the government making rules to ensure food and drug labeling are accurate ”
Inaccurate food and drug labeling would be a kind of fraud. Fraud is not free speech.
“Some Americans may reply: what of “foreign influence” if it helps to dig up the truth? Well, if that’s so, why do America care so much about “foreign influence” then?”
The Americans who care so much about foreign influence might be different Americans from the ones who reply:what of “foreign influence” if it helps to dig up the truth?
It does not follow from the observation that some people are hypocritical about free speech that free speech itself is a bad idea. This is true of any idea anywhere that anybody might be hypocritical about.
like most I don’t care if Trump did a deal with Zuck to do something about a leaky kids app that stores data and god knows what else on Chinese servers. The writer waves aside the security issues with this app, however credible analysts have concluded that it takes a lot more from a user’s device than even they could determine. For example the unauthorized use of camera or Mike. The app is extremely opaque. Given that children and young adults are using it, I think given the current multiple points of conflict with China it’s good policy to call a halt. Do you really want your kids to have potential blackmail material on an adversaries servers.
Also the writer has no concept of freedom of speech. To point to recent norms when in fact China has been influencing the nation’s politics and laws is disingenuous. We know freedom of speech and it will be re established in short order after Trump has a landslide win on November 3rd. Also, please save the tips on deal making. China is a command economy used to getting it’s own way on trade deals. So anything China may have learned about mercantilism of late will have no benefit from hereon as the playing field is leveled.
So yea, quit bitching about Tic Tok it is a failed data sweep operation dressed up as fun for the kids. Pro tip it’s no longer Obama era wilfull and knowing stupidity China is facing. Better lift your game if you wanna play with the adults.
“Better lift your game..”
Ah Mr. Ernesto.
Still thinking that people are playing games – even “adults” like in 1967?
Still conflating wishes with strategy ?
Wife and I, Sunday morning chat, ‘hey, honey, we should get some more of those seeds’……….specific seeds for specific plants……….30 mins later she opens her phone and is greeted with an avalanch of ‘specific seed ads’………tik tok, anyone home…….someone playing games?
Cheers, M
“someone playing games?”
Marketing like the opponents which in matters of geo-political matters are often deemed to be games, but not by the “gamers”, who also tend to conflate “data capture” with intelligence.
Although not perceived by many the “surveillance state” is a land of opportunity for those with facility.
Enjoy your planting.
che says: “The writer waves aside the security issues with this app, however credible analysts have concluded that it takes a lot more from a user’s device than even they could determine… For example the unauthorized use of camera or Mike. The app is extremely opaque.”
You seem to conflate two different “concerns” into one: individual privacy and national security.
If you are concerned about individual privacy, then there are lots more than TT – you should also be concerned about Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Apple, your laptop, smartphone, or even your car… etc.TT is just a small part of the whole puzzle.
If you are concerned about national security – consequences in cases of hot, cold, semi-hot wars etc, with China – then I suggest you spend more efforts try to understand and prevent US global, hegemonistic and destabilizing adventures throughout the world – including regime changes for China and others.
Unless, of course (third possibilities), you just hate China or is part of the “deep state”…
che says: “recent norms when in fact China has been influencing the nation’s politics and laws is disingenuous.”
1. I believe these are unsubstantiated claims with disingenuous motive.
2. There are many countries (e.g. Israel) that are doing those influencing blatantly and insidiously. Better spend your efforts fighting those obvious ones than chasing a shadow ghost.
3. Finally, the hard one: If American really dislike foreign (or potential, or imaginary) influences, then stop doing it to other countries.
“How Trump Failed America”
Omniscience does not exist and hence evaluation is always a function of purpose.
Consequently not perceiving the purpose of that which is being attempted renders others incapable of evaluation and deriving lateral strategies there-upon.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/55734.htm
Framing conditions perception, and hence the linear relationship of “fascism” and “representative democracy “ is obfuscated and held by some to be lateral ergo of a qualitative nature, rather than linear/quantitave moments within the linear spectrum of coercive social relations.
Such obfuscation was also achieved when some scientists with international reputations colluded – when possibly drunk but more likely laughing -, to sit down to write a phrase which they knew was ridiculous namely “We the people hold these truths to be self-evident…”.
Many were afraid of Mr. Suslov and did not directly challenge his view that “The United States of America” and “The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics” since 1922.
Those who did ask Mr. Suslov for a fuller explanation generally received the response that “The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics” was formed in 1922, and apparently in “The United States of America” there exists notions that “We the people hold these truths to be self-evident..” and then would pose a question – Where do you think they hold them?.
Mr Sagan was a very interesting person wise enough to realise his limitations in explaining perceived phenomena hence – http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/55736.htm.
However in conversations Mr. Sagan was reticent to acknowledge that “some scientists with international reputations colluded – when possibly drunk but more likely laughing – to sit down to write a phrase which they knew was ridiculous namely “We the people hold these truths to be self-evident…”, and hence that the dumbing down which he perceived was conditioned/derived from conception by a purpose, which rendered “The United States of America” enmazed in linear spectra of “perceived reform” in attempts to facilitate their purpose, and hence the purpose required transcendence, which was/is in part facilitated by the phenomenon which he perceived as “dumbing down”.
Apparently Mr. Sagan’s reticence continues to be shared by a lessening sum of some who are still enmazed in we-the-people-hold-these-truths-to-be-self-evidentness, whose quantitative enmazement
will be “analysed/discussed/evangelised”, including but not restricted to, through participation in voting by other “scientists” possibly drunk but more likely laughing, at those who believe that shared purposes exist in “The United States of America” and “scientists” who derive “analyses/evaluations” on assumptions which they assume to be self-evident.
” “scientists” who derive “analyses/evaluations” on assumptions which they assume to be self-evident. “
“Donald Trump was elected with a mandate to make deals and “drain the swamp.”
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/10/17/us-versus-china-and-us-versus-russia/
Although understandably quite simplistic Mr. Zuesse appears to grasp some points, without seeming to wish to be conflated with Zeus.
Apologies for using “Yahoo” but the name sometimes amuses.
““scientists” who derive “analyses/evaluations” on assumptions which they assume to be self-evident. “
Some who depend on precedence are always at a disadvantage, and those whose precedents are “Biblical” even more so. This did not include Mr. Sagan.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/10/19/two-deep-mysteries-of-the-1973-arab-israeli-war/
on how fiat was not restricted to the “US dollar”.
“America and Europe were in despair with high inflation, unemployment, and low productivity growth at the end of the 1970’s. China’s entrance into the global trade system ushered in a new period of continued prosperity in the West.”
couldn’t disagree more about that and we see the results today. not that it’s china’s fault, it’s the western capitalists who planned and organized the transfer of western industries to asia (or other regions) for more profit and to destroy all resistance by creating massive unemployment. another example of someone who thinks a high stock market means prosperity.
Trump thought that stealing TikTok would be easy, but failed to realize that TT would fight back, and Chinese government has counter measures too (like restricting export of technologies underpinning the TikTok engine), etc. A very naive negotiator and simple minded person he is – typical of most of his supporters.
This is a tangential pitch to vote against Trump, something China wants. They think it’s easier to deal with the globalist than with someone like Trump who does understand business and “Art of the Deal”.
Keep in mind though, what’s good for China is bad for Russia.
India and now Pakistan banned TikTok without problems.
This is a problem of political will in the US, and how weak Trump is.
TikTok should be rightfully banned for lacking of moral indecency.
“ if there is ever one topic I fundamentally and deeply disagree with the Saker about, it is on the notions of “freedom of speech.”
Here i agree completely with the author. Freedom of speech, along with so called freedom of press, is way overrated. In actual practice, it becomes freedom to peddle porn, only worse. Because the effects of porn are temporary, but the effects if false information is very often permanent. Just off the top of my head i can easily give a huge list of fake or twisted info that remain in the minds of hundreds of millions forever, such as:
Russians interfered with 2016 election to get Trump elected,
The Skripals were poisoned with Nivichok,
The Ukrainian Donbass rebels shot down MH 17,
Assad used chemical weapons multiple times on civilians,
China locked up million or millions of Uyghurs, have PLA sleep with Uyghur women and children,
Hundreds or thousands of students were massacred in TAM square on june 4 1989, etc.
I could go on and on With the list non stop, while real info that matters were in the minds of very few, this is the success of so called free speech and free press. What a sordid virtue.