You can read the full interview here: http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/23253
But the following quote is, I believe, crucial:
Today there is fighting in eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian central authorities have sent the armed forces there and they even use ballistic missiles. Does anybody speak about it? Not a single word. And what does it mean? What does it tell us? This points to the fact, that you want the Ukrainian central authorities to annihilate everyone there, all of their political foes and opponents. Is that what you want? We certainly don’t. And we won’t let it happen.
The Russian original sentence is: Вы этого хотите? Мы не хотим. И не позволим. I personally would translate this sentence “You want that? We don’t. And we will not allow this.” You could also translate the last part as “we will not permit this“. This is not an expression of a preference or a much more vague “we won’t condone” or “we oppose”. This is a very categorical statement which warns that Russia will proactively prevent such an outcome.
As I said it many times here already: Russia will not let the Nazis overrun Novorussia.
The Saker
Well, at this writing it is now “BREAKING NEWS on RT article includes photos of Nuland handing out cookies on the Maidan
Russia fears ethnic cleansing in Ukraine amid rise of neo-Nazism – Putin
As Kiev continues to amass its forces in eastern Ukraine despite the ceasefire and use radical nationalist groups as armed battalions, Moscow is concerned about possible ethnic cleansing there, Russian President Vladimir Putin told ARD in an interview.[.]
“Frankly speaking, we are very concerned about any possible ethnic cleansings and Ukraine ending up as a neo-Nazi state. What are we supposed to think if people are bearing swastikas on their sleeves? Or what about the SS emblems that we see on the helmets of some military units now fighting in eastern Ukraine? If it is a civilized state, where are the authorities looking? At least they could get rid of this uniform, they could make the nationalists remove these emblems,” Putin said.
[.]
“Indeed, self-defense fighters, for example, were supposed to leave some of the towns they had surrounded, are yet they haven’t left. Do you know why not? I will tell you plainly, this is no secret: because the people fighting against the Ukrainian army say, ‘These are our villages, we come from there. Our families and our loved ones live there. If we leave, nationalist battalions will come and kill everyone. We will not leave, you can kill us yourselves.’”
“That is why we have fears that it may all end up this way. If it happens it would be a catastrophe for Ukraine and Ukrainian people,” Putin stressed.
The Russian leader dismissed the idea that only Russia has the key to solve the Ukraine crisis, saying that it sounds as if someone is trying to pass responsibility for the conflict to Moscow.
You know, when someone tells us that we have some special opportunities to solve this or that crisis it always troubles and alarms me…I always begin to suspect that there is an intention to pass on the responsibility to us and to make us pay for something. We do not want that. Ukraine is an independent, free and sovereign state,” Putin said.
= = = = =
Turning Hot. This hints at setting the table for the R2P principle.
Hi Saker,
My question is this: do you think 1) Putin will be satisfied in having Donbas remain nominally part of Ukraine, albeit with wide autonomy?
Or, 2) do you think he really wants to annex Donbas directly to Russia, as well as create a land bridge of territory to Crimea through southern Ukraine (as many western media types speculate)?
I believe Putin’s objective is # 1, and I believe you have said the same thing. May I ask Saker if you still feel the same way, I.e. If you had to guess, Putin’s objective is # 1?
There is no win for Russia, or Novorossiaa in annexation of the rebel held territories.
If Russia goes down that road it will be because there is NO other choice that enables the safety of the people of the region.
Putin left the G 20 early. That’s all they want the world to believe. The rest of life or death, ethnic cleaning, war crimes, et al is not important. That is what they want the world to believe.
Russia and Putin stand for something they refuse to allow the world to believe.
God. His Truth. And the humanity of Russians.
But a good portion of humanity refuses to believe the satanists destroying the world.
I get the sense from Putin’s words that a lot of Ukies are going to meet a lot of Russian ammunition shortly.
I believe the world opinion is actually for the rebels in the eastern Ukraine.
The facts are even more defined and obvious than what happened in Yugoslavia.
It remains to be seen if opinion will have any bearing on U.S. state department “diplomacy” however.
On an unrelated note, does anyone know where a person could buy a St. George ribbon bumper sticker or Ukrainian rebel flag?
@ Josh Cohen, upthread
We are truly at a scary point in time. Russians do not make threats. They act. Imho, it appears Talk Time has ended. ..see my Item 4, Tass reported on the other segment of Mr. Putin’s interview with ARD
1. Instead of discussing the elections, held in compliance with the Minsk accord, Kiev has cut loose NovoRussia. They used the ceasefire to reposition and have allowed their neo-Nazi allies to continue shelling the Donbas.
2. Connecting the dots. Western MSM has been demonizing Mr. Putin, setting the table for a showdown.
B of MoA on Cameron, Abbott, Obama, Harper and Abe all thumping at the G20
This Putin Isolated Nonsense is dangerous
Now all this silly isolation talk would be funny if the people in power would recognize it for the bullshit it is. Unfortunately a lot of stupid people in Washington DC, politicians as well as media folks, believe in their own propaganda bullshit and therefore tend to miscalculate in their assessments of global policies. This is dangerous as it often has bloody consequences.
3. Over the past months the Bear has been poked. He did not react to the poking but it now appears he is ready to say, “you have had your fun…playtime is over”
4. TASS has reported on another segment of the interview Mr. Putin did with ARD:
Mr. Putin said NATO expansion since 2001 significantly changed geo-political situation
“We have witnessed two waves of NATO expansion since 2001,” Putin said. “If I remember correctly, seven countries – Slovenia, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Romania and three Baltic States, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania – joined NATO in 2004. Two more countries joined in 2009. Those were significant geopolitical game changers.
“Furthermore, the number of military bases is growing,” he said. “Does Russia have military bases around the world? NATO and the United States have military bases scattered all over the globe, including in areas close to our borders, and their number is growing.”
“Moreover, just recently it was decided to deploy Special Operations Forces, again in close proximity to our borders,” Putin said.
The president also said that Russia resumed the flights of its strategic aviation several years ago since it saw no moves on behalf of the United States and NATO to meet Russia halfway.
“You have mentioned various exercises, flights, ship movements, and so on,” the Russian president said in response to a question from the German correspondent. “Is all of this going on? Yes, it is indeed.”
“However, first of all, you said… that they have been conducted in the international European airspace. Well, it is either international [neutral] or European airspace,” Putin said. “So, please note that our exercises have been conducted exclusively in international waters and international airspace.”[.]
= = = = = =
Do we have a sense Mr. Putin’s patience is at an end?
Having attempted to sanction, demonize and isolate Russia, what will be the reaction of Obama, Cameron, Harper and the rest of the NATO alliance; not if but when Mr. Putin invokes R2P?
Beyond the Cuba Missile crisis is a parking lot of glass
And I think it’s brilliant that this was said in Germany, Putin’s second home, the natural ally of Russia, and so important to the survival of Europe.
Yes, but it sounds like his statement months ago. At first, Kiev/DC will test it and see what happens. Then test it some more.
The problem is that Russia has such ambitious goals. 1-Keep the Crimea. 2-Regime change in Kiev. 3-Maintain good relations with the EU. 4-If possible, keep the Ukraine in one piece, ex-Crimea. 5-Not get bogged down in occupation. 6-Reprogram the minds and hearts of Ukrainians away from the cult of nationalism.
This list is probably a lot harder to achieve than an acceptable list of American goals.
“
Anonymous Paul II said…
Yes, but it sounds like his statement months ago. At first, Kiev/DC will test it and see what happens. Then test it some more.”
Yes, sadly I have to agree with Paul. I hope Putin can overcome the oligarch inertia that is his biggest obstacle. Poor Putin as anyone who has looked into his biography knows that he is actually a poor guy not a rich guy. And an officer…I hope its not empty rhetoric again.
anyone think that timing of the massive attack on the Donetsk airport to coincide with Putin being out of the office for the G-20 meeting was mere coincidence???
Don´t be ridiculous. Nobody will start a WW3 over the Ukraine but the anglo-zionazi´s will keep that pot simmering for as long as it can without getting directly involved, while simultaneously turning up the heat in the middle east, Syria particularly. In US-israeli geo-political terms, i believe, these two conflict´s are related.
Mongoose 4:09: “Having attempted to sanction, demonize and isolate Russia, what will be the reaction of Obama, Cameron, Harper and the rest of the NATO alliance; not if but when Mr. Putin invokes R2P?”
I can’t speak for the rest of them but the personality disordered pipsqueak Harper will, after consulting Netanyahu, mouth off a lot of boorish noise and insult all the while hanging on to and cowering behind the coattails of his deluded masters.
As a German citizen, living in Germany I was surprised that our currently not Russia-friendly ARD tv station (public television) allowed this interview to be televised to about 3 million viewers. Sunday nigtht after “Tatort” (crime show) at 9.45pm is one of the best time slots to reach “relevant” viewers in Germany through that station.
Regrettably the questions asked were not tough enough for my taste and President Putin managed to get away with a number of answers, which could and should have been challenged. However, it was good for a wide spectrum of viewers to hear and understand Russia’s point of view. If Germany listened, it became clear that Putin will not allow any further encroachment by the Ukraine Central Government towards East Ukraine. Germans, who want peace at all cost, will have a serious wake up call pretty soon, when Putin’s clear resolve will be challenged by the Ukraine and its western allies. Today’s magazines and newspapers are discussing the question: what does he mean, by saying “we will not allow it”. For those who listened an watched, it was clear: President Putin drew a line in the sand. And no, this is not a President Obama line, this is serious.
Besides that it was obvious, that President Putin tried to convince his German viewers, that Russia and Germany are natural partners and that Russia and Germany together could and should resolve this crisis. I fear, that President Putin fails to understand, that the German people are a broken people, beat into submission by a bombardment of propaganda and brainwashing for the better part of 50 years. There is no hope whatsoever, that Germany will take a step outside the looming shadow of the United States. Germany has made the same mistake over and over again. It is called “Nibelungentreue”. It means that Germany follows its master to the end, even death. Once a master has been chosen, that master is to be followed. Any rational thought is regrettably cast away and Nibelungentreue supercedes any action. Thus, Germany will be politically on the side of the USA, come what may. This time I fear, that Germany once again has picked the losing side – as always in our recent history!
One other important aspect in this regard is that he did not confirmed nor deny that Russia is supporting the Novorossiyan anti-Nazi militia.
As you mentioned earlier, Russia has not made any attempt to conceal it lately, rather the opposite. No necessity for that since Obongo and his white masters openly arms it´s clients
knife-edge-any more provocations by Ukr in Donbass(eg cluster, phosporous, war/Geneva crimes that west is unable to enact upon thus proving they have lost their moral conscience), Rus could justify re-inforcing humaniatarian convoys with military protection either before or after they are “attacked?
Remember someone in Kiev said Ukr must go over the border and sabotage ? If anything happens and this this can be provable(pretty sure it is bluster though) back to Ukr this could be enough to trigger events, or cross border violations of any kind, or refusing to let through humanitarian convoys(Putin hinted that they must get through-or else?).Or wait until full bankruptcy is declared then convoys must get through.Tymoshenko was calling for full martial law, this might be required if complete civil rest occurs due to collapsing economy which Rus could use as as a justification for its actions to protect Donbass.Donbass declaring it is doing its best to issue small amounts as pensions as best it can to the needy-sadly in hrynvas-these could turn out to be totally valueless, but can Rus provide roubles? Can Donbass via Un in any way declare full humanitarian crises(doubtful that is useful anyway with Syria cris still no answer).Note Donbass stated they were willing to have to have another go at continuing or resetting Minsk v2-this might be them saying Kiev this is your last chance to pretend you are thinking of some kind of peaceful intent?- but if this call is rejected, further sanctions possibly today ,Rus and Donbass would have every right to declare Kiev is following up its latest statements “we are preparing for full scale war”(not defensively as they will claim but continuing their agression), and EU NATO has no intent , wil power, abilities etc to continue any sense of the current pretence of diplomacy-resulting in consequences……the west is unable to listen , it has abrogated any responsibility to peoples of the east only in their own interests to recieve gas-this can be turned against them surely.
Mariupol. Kharkhiv could be developing to much more volatile situations too………….realising the fools in Kiev really have failed Ukraine -again.Yatesenuk could still plan to lead the country, politics become even more intensive/extreme/polarised, perhaps we ain’t seen nothing yet eg punch ups in the Rada are very low scale.
Novorossiya is still a Western trap for Russia. It has been clear to everyone from April that the NATO endgame in Donbass would be a repeat of the 1995 Croatian “Operation Storm”. It has also been clear that Russia would and could never allow this.
It is in Western interests to pull Russia into a war in Ukraine. It is also in the interests of Galician nationalist. They want separation from Russophone Ukraine as much as Donbass wants separation from Galicia. They prefer losing Novorossiya to Russia and not the militia. It would guarantee eternal Western support and NATO occupation.
It is difficult to see this ending in any other way but in a Russian intervention.
@Josh Cohen
Putin has more than enough land, he is not interested in annexations of any sort. He merged with Crimea for Sevastopol only. If the people of Donbass would apply for membership of the RF he would discourage it or even refuse it. His only concern is that Ukraine could become a member of NATO, but Germany will know how to prevent that.
Putin is playing for time. His interest is to calm down things in Ukraine without letting ‘Nazi’ militias (under Jewish oligarchic rule, you really have to despair at the quality of Nazis these days.lol) ethnically cleans Donbass. Forget about Novorossia; cities like Kharkow, Dnepropetrovsk and Odessa did not revolt against Kiev, so that chance has passed. Kiev has announced it is going to shut off Donbass, meaning: accepting the loss:
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/11/16/kiev-halts-payments-to-eastern-ukraine/
Putin has no interest in annexing Novorossia and mobilise NATO against him. If the Russians aren’t murdered, it is ok. Please have some acceptable peace and let the West concentrate on ISIS and ‘pivoting China’.
Last weekend, Merkel spent full four hours on Putin’s hotel room. That’s a little too long for merely expressing ultimatums. I would not be surprised if she is playing a double game. She knows very well the sentiment under the powerful German industrialists and the majority of the German population. Escalation is not in her interest, but every now and then she needs to throw a piece of red meat to the AngloZionist predator (‘sanctions’) and play for time, in silent covert cooperation with Russia, that can always retreat into Eurasia and find support in China.
Putin correctly sees the US as a spent force, which is only kept afloat by the dollar reserve currency, that is now being undermined by China. The US is a racial powder keg, that could explode like Tunesia exploded, when a fruit seller set himself on fire. Here is what the Jewish-American peak oil luminary and friend of another Jew US-doomer Dmitry Orlov is saying about America:
http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-fate-of-the-turtle/
“What troubles me at the moment is that when that mood snaps, it will be for a bad reason in the wrong way. Ferguson, Mo., is still sitting there like an unattended back-pack on the courthouse steps. Before Christmas, some kind of grand jury decision is going to come down. All the reality-based chatter points to the probable exoneration of Darren Wilson, the policeman who shot teenager Michael Brown. I expect the trouble arising out of that to be a lot worse than most people currently suppose, and then we’ll literally be off to the races. If that happens, it will be a huge and tragic diversion from the things that really matter to keep the project of civilized life going. In a way, it will be the true beginning of the end. The end of what? Of pretending that the people in authority know what they are doing.”
Now, I don’t think that the US is going to fall apart over events in Ferguson. But what Ferguson could very well demonstrate is how fragile the social fabric of the US actually is. Once the world will dump the dollar and DC will be without cash, that’s when the real drama in the US will begin and the events in Donbass could very well serve as a template for happenings in the US. If you can’t keep very similar Russians and Ukrainians in one state, you can’t even begin to hope to keep Euro’s, Latino’s and Africans in one state, even if they are held together by 7 million or so Jews. 25% of the US population (no doubt the whites) recently expressed the wish to secede. This number will grow. Three days without a functioning or broke EBT system will be enough to initiate a wave of looting’s that could lead to the ultimate break-up of the US.
end of part 1
Kind regards,
Dutch
part 2:
Putin has a European strategy. Wladimir the Great is in exactly the same tradition of his predecessors Peter the Great and Catherine the Great, who wanted to bring Russia closer to Europe. The Atlanticist leaning establishment in Europe is not yet ready for that (with many exceptions, like Schroeder, de Villepin, Schuessel and many others), but as was discussed yesterday on the ARD after the broadcast of the Wladiwostok interview, the European right (like me, ‘neo-Gaullists’) is very interested in cooperating with Russia. We are already thinking ahead of what is going to happen after the end of the American era: the seemingly unstoppable rise of China. In the long run we are not interested in China showing up at the Ural mountains. But for the moment, from a European rightwing, identitarian position, China and the Caliphate are very useful in bringing down the US NWO, or the ‘AngloZionists’.
Anglosphere, the last European colony, is walking on its last legs. According to Paul Craig Roberts, the US will be a third world country by 2024 and vanish from the page of time. Pat Buchanan is saying the same thing: “Will the US survive 2025?”. Answer: no.
WW3 could very well take place on north-American soil. It will be initiated by, well let’s call them very well armed constitutionalist secesionists:
http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/Pi/esq-alex-jones-gun.jpg
It will all begin, like in Donbass, when some vigilantes, after one looting/flash mob too many, will occupy a town hall, like happened in Slavyansk. And then the uprising will spread and states to secede. Washington will try to suppress that uprising. That will be the moment for Europe to leave the West and form a confederation with Russia. That will be 700 million European against a divided America. Now guess what the Europeans will do? They will support the secessionists and could even send troops, exactly like was the case in 177x, when more French troops died than ‘Americans’, but nevertheless succeeded in getting rid of the British.
WW2 in essence was the uprising of ZOG-USA and ZOG-USSR against 500 years of global European dominance. ZOG-USSR is dead. China and the Caliphate is rising and so are secessionist tendencies in the US. The 20th century was indeed the Jewish century:
http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Century-Yuri-Slezkine-ebook/dp/B005646E32/ref=sr_1_1
…but the 20th century is over.
Russia is for Europe the opportunity to rise again, together with Moscow and contain China in a multipolar world order, dominated by China and Greater Europe/Euro-Siberia/Boreas/the North.
In 1939, Europe was on top, so it was in the interest of the US (#2) and USSR (#3) to conspire against Europe (#1). Now the US is on top, so it is in the interest of Russia, Europe, China and the Caliphate to see the US stumble into its grave and have some upward mobility in the global pecking order. It is a Darwinian universe after all, now isn’t it?
Any questions, mr. Cohen?
Kind regards,
Dutch
Also I suppose the deliberate destruction of Rus orthodox churches will be claimed-naturally/justifiably -as destruction of rus ethnographic culture as part of “genocide” of the east
Humour:
– Hello, honey, I’m home. Everything ok?
– Yes, sweetheart. I have been watching Laurel and Hardy. First time in years. I also watched Abbott and Harper in Australia and they were hilarious. They strutted around during an important political meeting and did everything wrong.
– Never heard of them, but I know Abbott and Costello.
– I am not surprised, sweetheart, you work too much. You do know Obama and Cameron, don’t you?
– Cameron is that English guy, I think.
– Yes, he is and do you know what? He is not funny.
– And Obama is?
– I didn’t say that. There is something very strange about these two TV comedians. Something is not right. Infotainment is not what it is supposed to be.
– I am hungry, honey.
– You will have to wait, dear. Merkel and Hollande are coming up.
Dear The Saker,
http://rt.com/op-edge/206083-g20-summit-brics-economy/
I think Pepe sums up the G20 perfectly here in his RT Oped.
One thing that struck me is why would the rest of the “world” want this new vague global investment hub in Sydney? It should be in Asia and away from the A-Z influence that Australia is heavily under.
Rgds,
Veritas
No news in this OT (G20 being so yesterday!) except it takes 319 people to move a Putin and the hotel confirmed he was always scheduled to leave that afternoon (although exact hour not known b4 hand).
http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/g20-brisbane-2014-what-happens-when-putin-comes-to-stay/story-e6frflo9-1227126054110
Some maybe news:
http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/ukraine/ukraine-angst-vor-neuen-russen-offensive-38595052.bild.html
Basically what BILD says is that there is a secret plan in the workings. The idea is supposed to be that the Ukraine gives away Novorussia by isolating it hence forcing “Putin” to pay for it because “anything else the Russian ppl would not understand”. Hence the west, according to BILD, is trying to make it as expensive for Russia as possible – and THEN (once Russia started to pay) yell: You see: Russia is annexing Novorussia.
They also say that “some important politician” told them that this week a makor offensive from Novorussia/Russia will happen to connect Novorussia with Crimea.
News? False information? No idea.
However it smells like something is happending. German media startet to smear Putin again in all papers. This is usually the beginning for some new event.
Ukraine should use saboteurs to destroy warehouses with cargo gumkonvoev that sends Donbass Russia. This was announced on the TV channel “112 Ukraine” colonel of the General Staff of Ukraine Vladimir Shevchenko.
Could this be provocation too much for rus-humanitarian convoys aid to be destroyed- OSCE and Red Cross for eg must authenticate at border cos ukr deliberately stalls, fails to do so.
http://apocalypsetime.wordpress.com/2014/08/08/the-serpent-people-return-to-ukraine/
This is the ultimate goal of Poroshenko, NEtanyahu and Obama, alle puppets of the real masters.
How can Putin still stop this Armageddon???
http://apocalypsetime.wordpress.com/2014/08/08/the-serpent-people-return-to-ukraine/
This is the ultimate goal of Poroshenko, NEtanyahu and Obama, alle puppets of the real masters.
How can Putin still stop this Armageddon and is he willing also?
According to an article by Zakhar Prilepin translated on the Fort Russ blog:
http://fortruss.blogspot.fr/2014/11/the-failed-ukrainian-blitzkrieg-that.html
Ukrainians decided to go for a blitzkrieg, Poroshenko ordered the units to assemble in specified locations, set their howitzers and deploy banners.
The offensive was to begin around November 7.
But what really happened, in the words of the author, was:
“In the first days of November militia dug out of the ground a certain number of “Grads”. The columns were arriving in the city with an enviable constancy. Some say, they were transferred from Snezhnoe. Well, who would argue.
A certain number of artillery and armored vehicles took up positions at the front of the Ukrainian positions.
And. The day before. The planned. Blitzkrieg…
…started a total bombardment of Ukrainian positions. They were bombed continually for two days and in some places dug everything two meters deep into the ground.
Kiev made frantic attempts (two or three) to launch a tank attack in different places (where there was no bombing) near Donetsk and Lugansk – but they ended with nothing. (One of the attacks was repulsed by a division of “International Brigades” – simply put: the natsbol).”
He says, nobody talks about it for their own reasons, but what he obviously means is that Russians did it. I do not know who Zakhar Prilepin is and where he got this information from, it is hard to believe that nobody knows anything about it but him. But if what he says is true, it would be wonderful news. Perhaps The Saker or somebody can comment on this news?
Elizabeth
“Larchmonter445 said… Putin left the G 20 early.”
The full story is that it’s completely normal. Merkel too left G20 early, just a few minutes after Putin.
Did not. Still in Australia.
Vladimir Putin answered questions from Hubert Seipel of the German TV channel ARD. The interview was recorded on November 13 in Vladivostok.
President’s Web page
http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/23253
*********************************
Once Nazi, today Natoist
St. George Ribbons
I don’t know where you live, Anon, but most cities have immigrant groups mirroring the divisions of the country of origin, i.e., there will be two Ukrainian associations and associated neighbourhoods, shops, bars, grocers. A phone check of organizations starting with “Ukrainian” (is there a separate Russian-speaking club?) or an exploratory drive around an Orthodox Church in your city, and you will find some NAF flags in the windows.
Or your city may have its own little e-Bay where you can browse on line.
http://novorossia.today/novorossia-news/appeal.html
People of the wounded and distressful working Lugansk region are appealing to you. Events of the last days witness that Kiev government having neglected all international norms and agreements and keeps on destroying infrastructure and killing civilians of Donbass.
Apologists of the war haven’t stopped after deaths of women, children and aged people. They started killing unborn children. On 15th November 2014 was shelled maternity house in the town Pervomayskoe.
Power stations, boiler-houses, objects of gas supply and water supply, settlements and villages of our region have been disposing, and with this, they foredooming people to cold and hunger.
Comprehensive schools and kindergartens, libraries and palaces of culture, railway stations and highways are subjected to destroying. Railway communications with cities Kiev and Odessa have been cancelled.
All this is happening against the background of cynical announcements about as if following by Kiev of Minsk agreements. Killing of thousands people is not just genocide of own people, but also crimson crimes.
We don’t call to revenge, we address to you, to all people of good will with a slogan to stop this tyranny, to protect the world from development of fascist nationalism in Ukraine.
We have to do it today and all together, or this plague will enter your houses.
We condemning the violence in attitude to civilians by army of Ukraine and we are addressing to you, human right activists, you have to say your loaded word to authorities who supports bloody regime under the deceitful slogan “unity” of Ukraine.
We are talking to international organizations: UNO, OSCE which are to protect the world. We have just one question: do millions of citizens of the South-East have such right to solve questions concerning their future individually, and is their intention to peaceful life blameful.
http://www.anna-news.info/node/25719#translate-en
today
extract from National Liberation movement Russia
“On the other hand, the U.S. government, knowing history, is afraid of becoming the “Hitler of the world.” With their actions, they every day sink even deeper in Hitler’s footsteps, which entails a certain logic.
This calls for the emergence of an “anti-Hitler coalition”, which in today’s environment would be “anti-American.” Here, we must recall that Hitler did not immediately become the devil incarnate in the eyes of the world, moreover, in 1938, he was named a Man of the Year by the “Time” magazine. A few years later, he became the epitome of evil in the eyes of millions of people. Nobel laureate Obama is well aware of this, as well is the rest of the U.S. government. They want to achieve the same goals as Hitler, but not to step across a certain line. However, the options to achieve these solutions are reduced daily, and they are making it more likely that the U.S. will embark on an uncontested military solution to the problem. Ultimately, the U.S. will step across the line and start waging total terror in the territories of the colonies, including Russia. Only Russian people can stop this terror on their land. To do this, they will have to do what our ancestors repeatedly did, to defend the Motherland! Today it is possible to do it in the socio-political vein while the world is in transitional state. But if we do not do it, terror will begin in Russia.”
Speaking of oligarchs
“Donetsk. Two ministers with the government of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) have been arrested on office abuse charges, a spokesman for the DPR prosecutor’s office told TASS on Sunday.
According to the spokesman, the local police detained minister of the energy sector Alexei Granovsky and deputy prime minister Alexander Kalyussky for acting in abuse of their competences. No further details are available.”
Both have connections to local oligarch Akhmetov, being in managerial positions in important industries owned by him. This would have made them useful, for their knowledge and experience, but it seems their loyalty is now in doubt. The case with Kalyussky is a total mystery. With Granovsky only a partial one, apparently related to his objections to “temporary nationalisation” of coal (stockpiled) or coal mines. He was responsible for doing the deal to sell 60,000 tonnes to Crimea, but there may be issues about the route the financing took.
There will be more of this. It’s a problem. They can’t reinvent every wheel. They need to find or keep people who know how to run certain businesses or organisations. But they need to develop enough own expertise to not have these pull the wool over their eyes.
These arrests may also be a good warning to many others; it’s been a long lone time anywhere in the Ukraine that anyone got arrested for not dealing straight.
strange article in Germans “WELT”:
http://www.welt.de/kultur/article134377318/Bei-einem-Ukraine-Krieg-droht-Aufloesung-Russlands.html
The headline translates to:
In case of a war with Ukraine Russia is threatened to be dissolved
THIS IS NOT A JOKE!! Russia!!
Something definetly is going on!
gayguy
Putin wants the Donbass as a voting block in the Rada for the foreseeable future. So do I.
The army gives us hope that public opinion can swing. Sure there has never been a soldier who didn’t know it was a good idea when captured to have just arrived at the front, to be a cook, to say “they told us lies, we didn’t know.” But look at how many defections there are, how poor the aim, how much unexploded ordinance, which NAF forces report has often been crudely sabotaged before firing. Captured dill must know by now that prisoners are being exchanged and that they come from the resistance side unharmed. If they still choose to change sides, so can their families and friends choose to change their votes.
I don’t think Putin really “got it” until Zakharchenko’s visit to Moscow. Immediately after, his public statements reflected an awareness of ethnic cleansing on the table, or perhaps “off” the table.
“They believe that if they lay down their arms, they will be murdered. We have to respect that.”
He certainly recognized early enough that Nazis were dominating the Maidan and purging the Rada, but to know the danger in his heart he had to look into Novorussian eyes.
Go Zak! May your fifth column catch virus pneumonia this winter!
Anon said:”This is the ultimate goal of Poroshenko, Netanyahu and Obama, alle puppets of the real masters. How can Putin still stop this Armageddon???”
Answer: Europe is Putin’s plan A.
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/putin-confirms-ambition-paris-berlin-moscow-alliance/
But if that (temporarily) fails, he can always fall back on plan B (China/BRICS).
China knows about the ‘serpent people’…
http://tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/167289/nanjing-jewish-studies
http://www.newyorker.com/news/evan-osnos/is-china-good-for-the-jews
…and realizes that Russia/BRICS are an effective defense mechanism against the NWO. So they will see this through until the US is out of business (balkanized or regime change).
Regarding plan A: there is still a lot of support for Russia, but not in the media, all mouth pieces for Washington. The American right (libertarians, paleos like PCR) are pro-Putin:
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/10/26/vladimir-putin-is-the-leader-of-the-moral-world/
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/07/no_author/neocons-hate-putin%E2%80%A8/
And if I were Russia or China I would heavily covertly support ISIS with money, just to keep the West busy. Perhaps they do, I don’t know. $400/month for a fanatical worrier is a fantastic bargain and certainly China has dollars too many.
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/11/16/kurdish-leader-claims-islamic-state-has-army-of-200000/
ISIS is the icebreaker for the neo-ottoman empire, run by Turkey…
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/11/15/turkey-wants-to-protect-jerusalem/
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/turkeys-search-for-imperial-grandeur/
And the Caliphate will be anti-western, with the potential of cuting off fuel supplies from the Middle-East.
You can’t blame Europe too much for the fact that they have a preference for America. America (so far) is a winner and associated with the good living, where Russia is still associated with the USSR.
For that reason Paris-Berlin-Moscow is not going to happen tomorrow, but will take many years and a lot of drama. For that to happen, a critical event is necessary. There are a lot of potential critical events:
1. World dumping dollar, financial collapse US, triggering secessionist movements
2. Marine le Pen becoming president of France and turning to Moscow
3. ISIS capturing Green Zone in Bagdad and kicking the remaining Americans out of Iraq.
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/10/27/segregated-baghdad-green-zone-military-implications/
4. ISIS threatening Saudi-Arabia
The transition from the NWO to multipolarity will come with a lot of drama first and can easily take a decade or longer.
Kind regards,
Dutch
Somehow, in Germany rhe MSM propaganda neither Merkels warmongering is having a big effect in polls.
Todays poll at n-tv (private, belonging to RTL) asks:
Is putin a threat to world peace?
Yes – 25%
NO – 75%
(15:49 lt)
Germans seem to wise up despite the relentless attempts to manipulate, brainwash and outright spreading of lies by german politicians.
Samantha
Here’s the problem.
The incredibly bellicose rhetoric of the Western Leaders (think John Wayne) in Australia must be explained.
And what is the explanation?
Cutting to the chase, it is that the situation in the part of Ukraine they control is catastrophically bad. “Western” Ukraine is a wound gushing blood.
That is the root of all the rhetoric. Yes, they want Putin dead or alive. That is a huge part of it. But the problem they brought upon themselves is a satrapy that is in need of millions and millions of dollars.
They have to distract the public from that.
Will they go to war with Russia? Never, never, never. Particularly now that Putin has said he is prepared to go to war. They don’t go to war with people who can defend themselves. And they frequently make a mistake about that (cf. Korea, Vietnam).
The “West” has an enormous problem that they have to scapegoat on to Putin.
Poroshenko has been working hard on fixing Ukraine’s heating problem. This will make him REAL popular.
* licensing coal exporters (ie preventing export)
* cancelling mining leases (??assume to companies that don’t co-operate with not exporting)
PREPAYMENT SCHEME starting Dec 1
* all energy to be prepaid (never mind 10,000 breadwinners got killed in his army, everyone else is out of work and 1/2 million unemployed refugees)
* make sure all outstanding electricity and gas bill are paid (pot calling kettle black?)
* close down all power supply companies deemed bankrupt (all of them will be, as no-one can prepay).
and this so far is just for HIS people.
* change the payments system in the ATO area considering the wholesale system there has been terminated
* apply “economically justified” tariffs to the ATO areas.
Basically means won’t supply to local distributors at wholesale, but will expect payment (likely at higher prices) from individuals. How he’ll get to read their meters is another matter.
Savings:
* reduce natural gas and oil usage for power stations and buy electricity from Russia (haha I can see them selling for promises)
* provide some State subsidy to coal mines to “partially cover the cost of the commodity cost of finished coal products;” (right so they’ll subsidise the mines so they can sell the coal cheaper to the State? yep makes sense)
* formation of the selling price of electricity for export to European customers in 2014; (ahh so everyone sits in the dark but he’s going to keep EXPORTING electricity? oh wait…money has to come from somewhere for the ammunition….
http://www.president.gov.ua/documents/18446.html for anyone who wants to see the other weird details.
I DO have very high hopes for the 50 stolen-from-Congo tanks being modernised in Kharkhiv, that Kiev is keeping for own use. The Kharkhiv partisans are very active and organised. How could they divert these tanks to more deserving drivers?
Cassad reports that “Kharkiv citizens are asked to publish actively in social networks open information, photos and videos with the militants right sector and other fascist scum, photo and video-documented facts of crimes and offenses, etc. etc. Location of checkpoints, military units, data on troop movements. The information is required to work more effectively”.
Of course if a social media account is traced to you there, Right Sector might pay a visit, and that’s the end of your Facebooking forever. But your removal will be videod and posted, too.
I wonder if a formal Russian protectorate of the Donbass might be possible, like the former French protectorates of Morocco and Tunisia. Maybe on the basis of guaranteeing the Minsk accord, imperfect as it may be, after the cease-fire and withdrawal lines are formally adjudicated. Russia could declare it unilaterally, maybe based on the elections permitted under “Minsk”, it would be somewhat in accord with international law so as to give the U.S. and EU less excuse for more sanctions, and would let Russia de facto incorporate the Donbass into its economy, to the benefit of all concerned. The Ukraine would also likely reconsider its “total war” posture, foreseeing the likely result (unless it really could go nuclear).
DUTCH 10:43
Putin did, in fact, try to prevent the referenda in the Donbass and did tell the secessionists that they would not be accepted if they went ahead with plans to request accession to Russia.
The press made hay of the ensuing confusion as the population clung to union with Russia or realistically opted for Plan B, loose federation or Plan C, independent republic. The press could say almost anything about Donbass support for the resistance by partially and selectively reporting these polls. “Small minority of southeast supports (Plan A).”
Retirement pensions are one thing almost everyone understands, and they especially are aware that they themselves are paying for their pension through payroll deductions. They know the pension fund is not state money, it is money the state holds in trust.
I can’t believe Poroshenko has settled on a politically appealing theme here when he says:
“Our old people will have pensions; theirs will not.
Our children will go to school; theirs will hide in the cellar.
That’s how we’ll win this war.”
I’m sure that in the north and west there are consciences that have been outraged by this. Press censorship has kept from us scenes of resistance to the draft. I found one particularly heart-warming video that showed women not only demonstrating, but physically fighting with police who were press-ganging their men, and after the trucks were loaded they stormed the photographers for stopping filming while the men were forcibly thrown into the waiting trucks.
I’m sure the republics would trade complete independence for territory, especially port access and enough territory to support a formidable defense force. Even paying tribute to Ukraine in taxes might be tolerated as long as it was much fairer than the old system in which the Donbass carried the rest of the country on its back.
“Unattended backpack on the courthouse steps.” I love it. I’m going to steal it.
My country wrote its constitution to avoid the errors and subsequent failure of the U.S. Constitution, a notion which I’ve never seen expressed anywhere by an American. The U.S. Constitution led in a historically brief time to a devastating civil war — surely a fair test of a constitution and a monstrous FAIL. Now Ferguson illustrates that the Constitution was equally inadequate to consolidate the gains of that war or heal its wounds. It is still going on 150 years later.
A solid French majority does not see Russia as a threat and wants the French built warships handed over to Russia. But coward Hollande is afraid of Washington:
https://twitter.com/RKacinskas/status/533649930901258241/photo/1
Kind regards,
Dutch
In Gorlovka/Horlivka, Bezler is reported as being replaced by General Petrovsky.
“I can’t speak for the rest of them but the personality disordered pipsqueak Harper will, after consulting Netanyahu, mouth off a lot of boorish noise and insult all the while hanging on to and cowering behind the coattails of his deluded masters.”
Well said, SanctuaryOne. I realize that Mr Putin cannot comment publicly on the machinations of his “partners” in Israel but I certainly hope he is aware that they are NOT his friend. Every time I see that oily war criminal Netanyahu cozying up to Putin and making nice with him I want to vomit.
Just some hypotheses which may help – try to forget the nonsense about chess though – someone’s likely making a joke, or in Russian it probably comes from Radio Armenia.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/post-cold-war-era-how-a-russian-security-analyst-sees-russias-relationship-with-the-u-s-and-the-west/5414454
G20 was a big disappointment. I was really hoping to see Tony Abbott ‘shirt-front’ the Judo-man! Looks like Abbott is a chickenshit after all…
@Dutch (17 November, 2014 10:43):
Now, I don’t think that the US is going to fall apart over events in Ferguson. But what Ferguson could very well demonstrate is how fragile the social fabric of the US actually is.
Unfortunately Dutch, there is no social fabric in the US anymore–there is only the system now. It controls everything life-essential and everything of any significance. So we need it far more than it needs us. Sad, but true.
A lot of black people rioting in the ghetto isn’t going change anything. It never does. That’s old news in the US.
To put into perspective this on-the-record quote by Putin (in bold), let me underline the specific remark/question by the journalist, that Putin was replying to, in this case. So, the question was:
“HUBERT SEIPEL: The question or, more properly, the claim made by Kiev today is that Russia supplies weapons to the separatists and sends its servicemen there.“
What is happening?
Why the silence?
Something is going on and nobody’s talking. Who is attacking who?
Heavy shelling again at the airport.
Only confirmed death from the 14th disaster is Vahid, one of the regular war correspondents there. RIP. The wounded will survive.
Kat Kan:
Good that you raised the ideology of victimhood, although the board had gone cold by then. It definitely belonged in that discussion.
Some housekeeping: a few things about which you expressed skepticism, some sources of which I tripped over while looking for sitreps.
Before the Military Council, Strelkov video sent in support from Russia
If Alex is taken to organize the military council, I am 100% sure that this will be a positive event, you need at the moment. And I believe that all the warlords Novorossia need to collect in order to determine its position. The enemy threat is removed, and the fact that the resistance remains highly fragmented, uncoordinated – it is a huge threat.
Whatever ended the military council – in any case it will not be useless. Indeed, in the situation that has developed, certainly needs to begin.
After the Military Council, Mozgovoy thanks non-participants
The planned military council did not take place. “Lord” are able to convince … On the appointed date, almost none of the commanders who so loudly supported the Council, did not come. Huge thanks to all for that! Now though it is clear who does what and who breathes what purposes.
warday.su (Strelkov’s newspaper)
Fly News Russia 10/20/2014 headline
Shooters proposed Zakharchenko to remove George Cross and accused him of personal enrichment.
The story goes on that Zak had failed to accomplish his mission and lost two tanks (used to be one tank) and it was merely a diversion anyway, so his St. George Cross Gr. IV (highest) was unmerited, but he should stop wearing it for having insulted the person who awarded it to him (and promoted him to Major).
What Strelkov said, what Strelkov did is becoming a meme.
I forget where this is from, but I stashed it because it contained a source which I wanted to retain. It demonstrates that this “Zak corrupt” charge is, as I said, part of a campaign. I’ve seen it two other places besides the three here.
The corresponding statement on behalf of the Strelkova appeared in the community “Bulletin of the militias of the new Russia”.
“There is an alternative, which is now enthusiastically embodies Zakharchenko and many other “warlords”. It is called “personal enrichment,” said Shooters.
By the way, War Day has daily sitreps for the past couple of weeks. They are infinitely better than crashing silence during a pivotal campaign, but are typical Strelkov, defeatist to the point of censoring out good news. For instance, remember Givi on the 7th giving sitrep for the 6th, “Day was bad for us early, then bad for them.” War Day’s sitrep doesn’t have any of the p.m. news at all, just the early.
Also, 70% of people of Donetsk are on verge of starvation because aid is not reaching them. The solution is to send money direct to Strelkov.
Two points with this: first, if the food aid gets to Donetsk, the people will be eating it. They might be paying black market prices for it, which is better than having no food.
Second, Zakharchenko reported on this, and appears to have it well in hand. There is a tips hotline and a rapid response team to interface with a public which seems hyper-vigilant. Zak says 9 out of 10 calls are nothing. “If Babushka gets four cans of stew and takes three cans to market to sell because the family needs diapers more, that’s not a problem. The guy who buys from Babushka to sell at three times the price, he’s the one might get shot.”
[paraphrased — when dealing with Yandex I lose all inhibitions about putting things in quotation marks.]
Che Guevara at the U.N.
“We are come here today to call things by their true names.”
Enough talk of “infighting” among the field commanders. “Infighting” may be taking place between field commanders of equal rank.
A field commander disputing Kononov is guilty of “insubordination” if acting alone and “mutiny” if acting with one or more others.
A field commander disputing Zakharchenko is guilty of “sedition.”
Harper is a complete outsider who thinks the way in is to take his cue from State Dept. press releases.
The insiders he is trying to snuggle up to know that Russia has not invaded Ukraine, does not want to invade Ukraine, did not shoot down MH-17, etc. They are aghast at the situation they’ve created. They thought they were going to reinstall Yulia Tymoshenko and the Orange Revolution. Now they have this disaster and it’s hard slogging trying to make the E.U. pick up the tab for it.
The last thing they’re going to do is embrace this belligerent pipsqueak and try to get him up to speed.
Someone said that Putin looked nervous during the interview. I personally thought he did very well. It was the interviewer that started looking nervous & sweaty.
I find it interesting that Putin never publicly acknowledges that the USA instigated the coup. The Nuland conversation (“fuck the EU”) is on youtube..
http://news.firedoglake.com/2014/11/17/putin-says-russia-will-not-allow-ukraine-to-destroy-separatists/
Not Russian, but good in Russian language;
what Putin is saying sounds like he is trying to distance himself from the horror in the Eastern Ukraine.
Мы не хотим. И не позволим means: we do not like, and we do not consent it.
позволение (permission).
So anything happening in Novo Russia Putin doesn’t like it and didn’t give any permission, but he let it happen.
Sounds like someone stronger is raping his wife and he is saying I do not like it, and I didn’t gave the permission to rape my wife, but I let it Happen.
I am glad to see Putin finally calling a spade a spade about the West vouching for Neo Nazis in the Ukrainian gov’t and military
What will Ukraine do when their 12 billion in reserves are down to nothing? How will they pay what they owe much less the 700 mil a month during the winter for new supplies
What will Pol Pot Shenko’s response to economic collapse be? Violence
Obviously we all got the meaning of “Shirt Fronting” as espoused by Tony Abbott wrong. It has nothing to do with chest thumping your football opponent to the ground. Instead it is about hugging cute and well trained Koalas on the front of your shirt, posing for the cameras.
http://rt.com/news/205855-g20-abbott-putin-koala/
A much nicer version if you ask me and I think are the in between lines of all the media garbage that was the G20. I was very happy to see the beaming faces of Abbot and Putin together with their cuddly Shirt Fronting friends.
As they say, actions speak louder than words.
For Donbass, I believe they will not see direct Russian involvement and they are capable of holding their own. The important tasks for them is to work on their civilian organisations that can cope with the cut off from Kiev and that will happen. Also, all is not quiet on the Western Front and I would not count other regions out from organising their own freedom from the Junta. This is not over yet by a long shot and the road to recovery and cleansing for Ukraine, all of Ukraine, will be a long and arduous one. They have much though to build on in terms of human and physical resources.
As for Europe, there is hope as many states within are not happy with the current direction of the block. It is a matter of loosening the Atlantists’ reigns, for want of a better term, on the leadership of many EU states. I think the forcing through of the TTIP will be an event or straw that might break the Atlantists’ back bringing with it a large back lash from the public.
“And we will not allow this.”
How do you explain the loss of 6 oblasts of NovaRossia that would probably vote for independence ? Putin could have demanded voting after the coup. He sat on his judo thumb.
How do you explain the loss of 2/3s of the donbass – of the 2 oblasts that already ? Could have again offered protection and ensured no war , but sucked on his judo thumb. Only the very end, where it required the most troops and the most heavy assistance did Putin do something.
So what is ensuring now – a rump little piece of land that no way of existing on its own, another little frozen conflict where the inhabitants suffer the most. How is that daily shelling working out ?
So Putin already lost almost everything and now he is not going to allow the last few people left to be eradicated. Ha! what a farce. This is minimal face saving so that he say he saved the Russians in Ukraine – when he did no such thing. He saved a token.
Wake up Putin-fools.
They had Slavyansk. They had Mariupol. They had …..
A few small groups, before Kiev got their miserable act together.Then they got pushed back. When Poroshenko got elected, there was a chance, for a moment,that they’d talk and settle it. Parents, and more so Uncles, let boys fight, help them make up, take them for icecream later to talk and understand. Putin needed this like a hole in the head. He got Crimea out and that was all he needed there. He tried to talk them out of having the independence referendum. He sent in people like Borodai to keep an eye on things. And to keep a lid on them. He had his Parliament give him a 2-month approval to attack, to scare Kiev into talking.
Odessa. The neo-nazis who “liberated” Slavyansk, too many of them to remember which lot these were. Azov in Mariupol, shooting at civilians not even protesting. This is when it really went from protest to self-defence. They were no longer fighting for their rights. They were fighting for their LIVES. And knowing from the first two examples that they can NOT give up a settlement once they take it, if they don’t want the survivors to be raped, disappeared, set alight, after they leave.
THIS is the message Zahkarchenko explained to Putin when he was called to Moscow just after the election. THAT is when Putin saw sending gas and electricity and a few trucks was not going to be enough.
There had to be a Minsk agreement. Putin pushed for it. He knew Ukraine needed money. He knew IMF won’t lend if there’s a war on. He probably suspected Poroshenko WOULD nuke Donbass if he could,just to have “no war” when the bank showed up. He was already helping Donbass, he wasn’t going to give Ukraine free gas but he couldn’t let Europe freeze, hr needed Ukraine to get that loan.
But some magic invisible non-tanks and non-artillery let NAF make that sudden big push, that had people here (and likely there, too) dreaming of moving on to Mariupol, maybe even Odessa. “Putin sold out” came the cry when they had to stop,when they had to go to Minsk. But, Novorossiya went from two almost-separated little circles to a large contiguous territory with NO SOUTHERN FLANK to worry about, Russia literally had their backs.
Nobody was going to keep the ceasefire. But it got Poro (and Putin) their gas money, got Europe their gas. Got NAF the breather to start rebuilding civil society, make repairs, start to RUN the land they occupied. Change of guard, the “Russian advisor” leadership had already disappeared. Political people and administrative people came in. Bands became battalions. Zakh demanded unity, commanders refused, they tried their own unity, that failed, armour was taken (for repairs, too, but mostly to stop adventurers taking on more than the government can handle.
This is when it went from fighting for our lives to fighting FOR OUR NATION. The dream was already there, but now they could see the reality of it emerging from the smoke — when the PM started to control the army (and there became an army to control)– started to distribute coal to the pensioners — STOPPED the aid food from disappearing, by getting people’s needs assessed and prioritised — made people buy a registration to do business (no invisible fly-by-night profiteers, no business tax dodgers). Not a dream anymore. And no talk of monarchy, communism, free market, bolshevik any ideology, just straight pragmatic what do we need to do with our very limited means, to keep our people alive.
Good analysis Dutch, that all makes sense to me. This confirms my belief in Putin. I’m a big Putin fan, the man is a geo polical strategist of the highest order!
Cassandra knows, Strelkov has sniped at Zakharchenko before. No doubt will continue to do so. He has a following, which on one rather romantic level I understand. Strelkov is an idealist and an ideologist. Zakharchenko is neither. But he was a late arrival, not the first wave that Strelkov started at Slavyansk, had the suspicious backing from somewhere to turn up with a unit and equipment (Oplot). Didn’t want to fight in the city. Strelkov apparently though a demolished apartment building would make a good barricade. Someone who’ll end up being stuck with rebuilding it won’t agree (though I doubt Zakh had any such ambition then). Plenty of Slavyansk veterans don’t idolise Strelkov; some say he hoarded food and ammunition and other supplies, didn’t look after them well. IDK, I wasn’t there.
He’s accused Zakh of profiteering. Main issue seems to be he controls the cigarettes and vodka. So? it’s not baby food he’s overpricing. And the profit is not money, it is co-operation. Commanders who don’t argue, don’t threaten to go it alone, don’t let their men misbehave… they get the luxury treats for their fighters. Same thing is happening in Luhansk, eg the Cossack running one town believes Plotnisky is enriching himself somehow. (DPR has a better press office than LPR, but LPR is doing much the same things, a lot of co-ordination). The commanders may talk and plot and announce their own single-city republics, as long as deep down they follow the single plan…it may be necessary sometime to plan something that has to look like a rogue group did it. Mozgovoi (Ghost brigade) is still “joined” enough to have designed the new uniforms — for the NR army he refuses to join.
The military council was indeed quashed from high; the proposed leader was an unknown, they had to unite under a civilian leader. Imagine what Western support Poroshenko would get if there was danger of military dictatorship in Donbass.
Now Zakh has just ordered 2 of his ministers arrested, for abuse of their positions. The one I knows of ran a coal business for local oligarch Akhmetov (who Zakh also used to work for and is believed to be the source of Zakh’s unit). It made sense to get onto the ministry someone with expertise about coal, sales more than digging it up. The guy did a good deal to sell 60,000 tones to Crimea. Maybe some money disappeared. Maybe the guy turned out more loyal to Akhmetov than to DPR. Who knows? Zakh brought in someone very useful, put him out when he turned into a danger. Good governance, I’d say. Strelkov’s friend Cassad is asking how did cheats get those positions in the first place? whose side is Zakh really on? once an oligarch’s employee….? has he switched sides to a Moscow guy who is anti-Akhmetov?
There is some personality clash in these intrigues,perhaps some envy, and maybe some hidden incident. Givi, who was also at Slavyansk, has never spoken of that time, but once asked about some criticism of Zakharchenko, he said anyone wanting to damage Zakh would have to deal with him first.
(Givi and Motorola came out of the airport disaster in one piece, btw. Very down and jumpy. A war correspondent was among the 7 fallen).
Re anonymous,
“what Putin is saying sounds like he is trying to distance himself from the horror in the Eastern Ukraine.
Мы не хотим. И не позволим means: we do not like, and we do not consent it.”
Me: Not good in Russian either, but can read a dictionary. Per the Pons Russian-English dictionary,
позволя́ть = to allow.
Katherine
I forgot to add on the airport sitrep — Strelkov says it was Givi’s fault, for flirting with the media, letting them to film everything, and this gave away their positions to the enemy.
In a fresh video today, they say “Don’t film the launcher” “They might find out where it is” ” yeah” BANG they throw 8 shells from it. Big secret where it is!!!
========
Cassandra getting a bit stuck into Strelkov
Also, 70% of people of Donetsk are on verge of starvation because aid is not reaching them. The solution is to send money direct to Strelkov
This is working.
The “Novorossiya foundation” is a partnership of five major organiations that have been accepting donations and using them for assorted humanitarian aid,civilian and army alike. They have had problems with suppliers, middlemen, warehouses, transport, all taking cuts or stuff plain disappearing because nobody counted it. This includes donations (private and oligarch) inside Russia.
They can co-ordinate what they buy, avoid duplication, set priorities. They can reduce costs and improve control by using only 2 large shared warehouses. They plan to control goods from purchase to final recipient, to keep outside hands off it. (This method was already used for the new uniforms Mozgovoi designed…instead of buying through 3 hands from Russian stock, they decided what features they want, found a sewing factory to make it, got it delivered to a NAF warehouse for immediate transfer to the units in the field. Cost them 1/4 of buying via voentorg…. quilted ‘breathable’ waterproof jacket with fur collar or $25? bring it on).
Of course (at least in Hungary I know of for sure), in Soviet times, the contract would be taken by workers in an official state-owned Army clothing factory, and they’d do it after hours — with the official Government machine, electricity and materials. I believe this may also be why some Chinese fake designer clothes look so real
OK back to Strelkov. The combined vertical organisation for the aid is an excellent idea. But then he’s been talked into fronting something with too much trust and naivete, as usual for a dreamer.
It is NOT REGISTERED, it is just a joint name they use. There is no membership,anyone can join via the internet (he said in an hour long TV interview). All based on trust, even though nobody really sees through from one end to the other. No formal oversight. No formal or compulsory record keeping. I saw stuff distributed from vans, no receipts,just recipient meant to tell the camera what he’s been given. “Uniforms and cough medicine and other useful stuff” Givi said. Oh that is really good accounting for where some donation went.
So Strelkov is setting himself up for yet another fall. A loose organisation like this is easily infiltrated. And then there’s just a single point of failure — catastrophic failure.
Eggs – meet basket.
A set-up like this needs rules and systems, run by TWO lawyers or accountants who DON”T GET ON, to be sure they keep checking on each other.
Back to Putin.
By forcing Minsk, he bought Novorossiya time to start rebuilding, both their towns and their army. Plus ensured Ukraine and Europe their gas and himself at least some of the money for it. (Separate gas supply for Donbass was started a lot earlier).
Voentorg closed to pull into line any commanders who wanted to push on. As usual, because there’s no way to demote or fire anyone, supplies were used as the “steering”. A quiet order “always make them shoot first”. A single unheard sniper shot, barrage of shelling in reply, now we can “shoot back”.
Moscow’s been talking of Fascists and neoNazis for a long time. The West laughed at them. Lavrov mentioned tortured civilians but got the numbers mixed up, the west laughed. All propaganda.
Around the elections, Zakharchenko and Plotnisky were invited to Moscow. They have files full of images of tortured executed civilians, raped young girls, that have not been published. They have statistics for houses being robbed,chickens and got stolen from hungry villagers, even non-separatist houses in “free” towns being burnt on suspicion, people coming back from weeks of being missing with dozens of broken bones….
Putin now knows “neo Nazi” is not flags at a rally. It is full scale pogrom in every place the NAF isn’t there to protect. No way he is going to ask them to surrender into that, nor let them be defeated into it.
So now he says
This points to the fact, that you want the Ukrainian central authorities to annihilate everyone there, all of their political foes and opponents. Is that what you want? We certainly don’t. And we won’t let it happen.
Saker translates it as “You want that? We don’t. And we will not allow this”.
In slightly old-fashioned English, I would translate it as
“”You want that? We want it not. And we shall not permit it”.”
“Will” may just signify some action in the future. “Shall” is a near-obsolete variant that strongly conveys a firm intention, not just prediction.
Meanwhile if the blockade starts to get serious (eg they turn off power or gas to Donbass) Russia will certainly be going to the UN about it. Maybe with pictures this time.
And if intervention is needed? will it be tanks? I think not. Air more likely. Let the US try to explain why it is suddenly NOT ok to aerial bomb people who are murdering other people? and release some photos a la ISIS beheadings, to explain it to the rest of the world. Not by Russia; by the US-funded Amnesty International.
@ Jonathan
comments for Ukraine saboteurs to burn aid warehouses in Russia? Russian SBU can be a lot tougher than Ukie SBU.
The aid now is not really warehoused. The trucks go around picking up from the suppliers, then stand together for a photo op, then off they go. Small amounts of things donated as items most likely go to the refugee camps, stuff for Novorossiya would be bought in bulk with donated money.
They’ve had 7 convoys in there now. No problem anymore, as they do not cross the Russia/Ukraine border. They cross at the Russia/Novorussiya border. The Russian side inspects them (to make sure there’s nothing that export duty has to be paid on??) and the NR side just waves them through. NR border guards in theory work to Ukrainian law atm because they’ve not had time to write their own yet. They work for nothing but food rations (which may be on the trucks they’re letting in). OSCE monitors may casually glance inside a few trucks. Mostly they count how many in, how many out, and how long they took to return.
The Ukie threats about burning warehouses come from the fact that last week in Kharkiv and Kiev, mysterious fires burned down warehouses containing winter gear collected for the new-nazi battalions. How sad.
Clothing burns very well. Everyone in Ukraine smokes. Chain smokes. Does their work with a lit cigarette poking out of their mouths. Accidents happen. Poor stormtroopers will have to stay indoors to not freeze. After 2 weeks-ago sad accidental explosion in one of their nightclubs, that had better be indoors at home. Let decent people have the street for a while.
A lot of sad accidents have been happening in some places. Partisans in Kharkhiv have asked people to post on social media full details of any atrocities against them, checkpoints etc. Then “disappeared” people may be found still alive, and more sad accidents may happen.
quote “You know, when someone tells us that we have some special opportunities to solve this or that crisis it always troubles and alarms me…I always begin to suspect that there is an intention to pass on the responsibility to us and to make us pay for something. We do not want that. Ukraine is an independent, free and sovereign state,””
is Putin really clueless?
only a legalistic bureaucrat? i think so.
that man has been harping on west to do this and that in Ukraine when it is the west which has done all that in the first place.
what stupid can you be and still be a president of a major power! amazing to see such losers at the helm.
quote “.I find it interesting that Putin never publicly acknowledges that the USA instigated the coup.”
and why doe she not?
because despite all attacks on him from anglos he has nos shame enough to even retort the truth about anglos plot?
or is he that clueless that he is not fit for any high office -him being just a bureaucrat with legalistic argument of boring repetition to his enemies.
Kat Kan, as usual, we are pretty much in accord, but it’s too bad I lost my opus major. I was so exhausted I’m struggling to reproduce it in drips and drabs.
Zakharchenko was in long before the beginning. OPLOT was a martial arts club before it was a battalion. (I think this may be the business they say Zak went into.) Anyhow, they were a political club, close to the PoR, probably related as a union does in the U.S. providing bodies in campaigns, demonstrating, like that, and he led them to the anti-Maidan. On coming home he broke them into squads to guard the city utilities, switching stations, generators, water pumping stations.
In April, he stormed the Donetsk administrative building, on the steps of which Gubarev had been acclaimed the People’s Governor on March 3.
In the meantime, Alexander Borodai and Strelkov, who went way back, were both in Crimea on Aksyonov’s staff, Strelkov as head of security and Borodai as a crisis consultant, his business. Both were members of the Monarchist movement, Strelkov wrote for an ultra-nationalist newspaper edited by Borodai, Borodai was a journalist in Chechniya when Strelkov was in a reconnaissance group there, and they had parallel views on the current situation.
Both of them were 100% certain that the hour of the Tsarists’ dreams had come. Crimea was just the first, and the Russian Empire was going to be re-established. Russia was going to invade Ukraine next. They decided they should be there, well positioned, to greet the invaders.
Neither of them was sent. Neither of them was FSB.
Borodai left first and easily seized the leadership left vacant by Pavel Gubarev’s imprisonment. Strelkov followed in his Sopwith Camel shortly thereafter and was appointed head of all military and paramilitary operations in the republics. Borodai may have taken Strelkov on self report in doing this. In any event, they both thought at the time that the Russians were coming very soon.
Strelkov went to Slavyansk in early April with 58 men he had brought from Crimea, took over police and mayor’s office and hung out a sign ‘Rebellion Central’ here. Rally round. They went from group to group organizing and brought about half the combatants into the confines of Slavyansk, including OPLOT and Motorola.
BTW, I don’t think we’re talking about the same Military Council. The one I posted the clips about was the last one, that was supposed to pre-empt the elections by forming a government of war lords. The mutiny.
This shows the source of much of the talk of divisions among the commanders and opposition to Zak. Mozgovoy (whom I like as a person) mistook a lot of humouring from the battalion commanders as signs they were in his and Strelkov’s “camp.”
Incidentally, Givi has talked about Slavyansk. The video you refer to was about Strelkov. “They should stop the bullshit. It’s not true.” was about Strelkov. “Kononov and Zakharchenko are brilliant tacticians and strategists. They give clear orders that make sense,” was in comparison to Strelkov. The video has been edited. (Shame on Kazzura.) Many “bullshits” are missing.
Whose revolution is this, anyway?
When the people at the head are not OF the people, when they are outsiders…
a) working for some outside force with its own hidden agenda (more likely economic)
b) as above but aiming to kill the revolution from inside
c) working for some agenda of their own (more likely ideological)
d) as above but hoping to wrest power from backing group one there is success (basically question of who is using who?)
e) group C ideological people unwittingly being used as tools of group A/B
When the same people keep popping up everywhere at the “head” of something….they can’t be true members of all those local revolts. They have a dream, and they keep seeing each problem as the opportunity –
“this may be THE ONE where the dream can be made to happen”.
These are dangerous, as they are easily fooled to work in the interests of others. How many times has Strelkov joined the wrong groups? and been surprised when it’s explained to him, publicly, what he’s agreed to be front man for?
Gubarev’s situation is interesting. He is sidelined and not sidelined at the same time,. He makes appearances and announcements, he dos not have a “line” of ideology that opposes the current administration, he neither approves or disapproves of them. He doesn’t mention them, they don’t mention him. He runs an NR news site.
@Cassandra
Zakharchenko was in long before the beginning. OPLOT was a martial arts club before it was a battalion
Yeah, being on Party of Regions side is used to suggest he is not a true revolutionary, hes in the pay of the oligarchs etc. Great majority of people in the are supported Part of Regions, no treason in that.
A tiny organisation can mange without funding. One guy runs the website on his own machine. another gets flyers printed on his printer at his work. Someone’s living room hosts meetings, someone brings teabags, another biscuits.
Anything bigger needs some money. In Ukraine the choice of backers was Oligarch 1 (pro-EU), Oligarch 2 (pro-RF), Oligarch 3 (local guy) Oligarch 4 (distant guy trying to take over local guy) CIA CIA CIA.
If Zakh got funding from Nos 2 and 3, good luck to him. If he is still getting funding from them, and/or their supporters in Russia, even more good luck to him. The new republics badly need money, and it is right and fitting that should come from those who profited billions from those areas in the past.
Everyone quickly backed out of the “war lords mutiny” when they discovered it is the civilian leadership that provides (holds control of) their ammunition and food supplies. And that they lack the connections to get their own…..so how will they look after the civilians in their territories if they can’t look after themselves?
I have just spent more than an hour searching for Poroshenko’s Human Rights convention decree. It is missing. That does not mean they’re not going to get it ratified by the Rada.
Anyway, from memory. he is allowing one month for clearing all State offices and staff and equipment out of Donbass. And documents if possible. So they want to take the equipment… computers don’t matter, x-ray machines DO. But they can’t get IN to remove them. All they can do is take what the workers can carry unnoticed. They are supposedly going to be found work elsewhere. Doesn’t say what happens to their houses and furniture they own, what they will be given instead, or how many people he thinks are involved.
The point is, it is not just to abandon the territory and leave them without starting equipment. It is about removing the people he thinks are loyal to Ukraine… so they don’t get killed in the blockades or the carpet bombing
The attack will start when these people are gone.
WATCH OUT for them shifting people out of other cities — Mariupol, Kharhiv and so on. Nikolaev, which has been very quiet lately.
Christmas Day doesn’t look too unlikely (forgetting Orthodox Christmas is on January 7) except for the possible outcry in the West. A provocation may be arranged for that day as the excuse.