Introduction: I am deeply honored and grateful to Dagmar Henn for allowing me to publish here an email she sent me recently. Let me immediately say that I do not agree with her main thesis (that the German government is not a vassal but an accomplice) but my personal views on this topic are irrelevant. What matters is that she makes a very interesting case and that if she is right, then my own analysis and, possibly, the Kremlin’s, are wrong and that, in turn, could have major consequences on the future of this war on Russia (the Ukraine really being only a battlefield in a much wider attack on Russia).
It has been and will continue to be my policy to post documents on this blog even if I do not agree with them, as long as they are fact-based, logical and well written and they contribute to a more interesting analysis and discussion.
Dagmar Henn’s piece definitely meet all these criteria and I am delighted to post it today.
As to those, especially in Germany, who might disagree with her, I invite them to send me a rebuttal which I will also post as long as it is substantive and contains absolutely no personal attacks on Henn or anybody else.
Kind regards,
The Saker
——-
by Dagmar Henn
The EU-association contracts the Kiew Junta signed binds the Ukrainian economy to the zone of German hegemony (the EU is now completely submitted to German interests). Signing the IMF contract was an EU demand. So the economic trap that actually forces the junta towards exterior aggression (just to save their own skin) is not a US invention, but a German one…
Steinmeier, the German minister of exterior, was head of the chancellery and therefore coordinator of secret service activities from 1999 to 2005. So he was deeply involved in Kosovo already. Later he pushed the association of Ukraine to EU. He is neither innocent nor someone interested in peace. He was the first one to talk about “territorial integrity” immediately after the coup.
Everybody remembers that Nuland in her famous phone-call demanded Jazenjuk for government. Nearly everybody forgot that she also said “no Swoboda”. It was Steinmeier who opened the door for Swoboda. And if US media are silent about ukrainian Nazis, German media are mute. Even though it should be much easier for a German journalist to recognize them than for an American.
Not only in this blog, also in Russian media (as far as I manage to decipher them through Google-Translator) Germany is seen as a US vassal that could be a potential ally. (Putin repeated this idea in a speech to various ambassadors). If this position is aimed at the German public, it might work as a propagandistic idea, but it doesn´t even reach this public (there is no German channel of RT until today). If it is aimed at German politics, it is based upon a flawed analysis. It might be possible to create a split between Germany and it´s european neighbours (after they have been sucked dry economically in the last years to stabilize German industry and German banks); it is wasted effort between Germany and the US, because this is complicity, not dependancy. Like it was in Jugoslawia – the US gets the military bases, Germany gets the colonies.. (and if you remember the role of Croatian fashists, guess where they were stored all those decades before their reuse? Yes, in Munich).
German political rhetoric rarely tells the truth. Ask the Greek about it, who got “saved”. Nothing that is said can be trusted. It´s just the deeds that tell the truth. And if there were any serious intention from the German side to move from escalation to diplomacy, there would be a breach in the information blockade to legitimize it. There isn´t. Not the slightest one. Just once there was a single information that went through – when Bild, Germany´s most awful journal, wrote about PMCs in Ukraine. They referred to a source in the BND. I think that was some kind of internal retaliation for the fake OSCE-show.
The relative stability of German economy is based upon a consequent “beggar-thy-neighbour”-policy. It´s result is the transformation of the EU into a semi-colonial structure with just one political and economical center: Germany (and just think of Hollande no longe being allowed to phone without Merkel). But this structure is far from stable, because it ran out of neighbours that are not yet beggared, and the fundamental economical crisis is far from over. So both sides of this partnership in aggression share the same problem, and no trade balance with Russia can fill this gap. Both need a real destruction of real values on a large scale, and they need it soon.
When the Wehrmacht started losing in 1943, they tried to analyse their errors. They came to the conclusion that before they ever started a war against Russia again, they should take care to secure all of Europes economic potential under their control. So it is a bit spooky to see that exactly this has been achieved during the last years.
It´s impossible to prove how tight the connection between German authorities and the Ukrainian Nazis are. German archives are tightly closed; all the dirt accumulated since 1945 is still hidden. As the CIA documents are accessable, US acts are public, while German ones stay hidden… But there are strong indications that the worst parts of the Ukrainian forces are German puppets, not American (starting with Timoshenko and Klitschko, but continuing into the full Bandera spectrum). They don´t need to be controlled directly. They run like on a track into the right direction, as soon as they are called on stage.
Around Munich there were more Nazis in official positions and more Bandera exiles than ever reached the US. German secret service BND (located in Pullach, a few kilometers from Munich) never dropped the old connections and it was formed out of the same people that held those connections during the war. There was a Ukrainian exile government in Munich, residing in Zeppelinstraße, there still is a ukrianian university; Munich was the headquarter of the ukrainian terrorists after 1945.
Right from independence there was a strong German influence in Ukraine. 1992 the German embassy in Kiew employed more personel than all other western embassies together (including the American). While British and American government officials at that time warned of strengthening nationalist tendencies in ex-SU-countries, the German government did everything to do exactly that (not only in Ukraine, by the way, but also in the Baltic states and…). So a floor full of CIA agents in Kiew might be not a sign of US strength in this drama, but rather the opposite, an attempt to catch up with German connections.
There is one strange historic resonance in the list of ukrainian events. Up to the 9th of May everything followed a timetable that somehow aimed at a reversion of WWII (culminating in what would have happened in Mariupol, if local police hadn´t rebelled). This timetable was mainly based upon historical events in Ukraine. But there is one exception. The Odessa massacre has two historic resonances; but both are not placed in Ukraine, but in Germany. On May 2 1919 Munich was conquered by the counterrevolution , followed by several days of massacre with up to 3 000 victims; the bloodiest event in German interior politics until the Nazis came into power. And on May 2 1933 the Nazis stormed the buildings of the German unions. That might be a coincidence; but if it isn´t, it is a strong indication of a German mind behind it.
(German Nazis are obsessed with historic references. Do you know why the first Concentration Camp was built in Dachau? The Bavarian Red Army won a battle there early in 1919… they wanted to extinguish even the memory; and they succeeded)
And then there is the basic question – the whole story looks too much like an attempt to revert WWII not to be exactly that. Now why would the US be tempted to revert WWII that lay the base for their present position? No reason at all. The ones who want to revert this war are the ones that lost it.
Even the new scandal about this NSA-spy in BND won´t have any consequences, as the whole NSA story didn´t. And won´t. Why? Just imagine it were the other way round, Germany being the country eager for war – what would be the consequence in relation to the USA? They are needed as nuclear shield… so they would have to be involved one way or the other, even if it were an exclusively German plan.
I might be wrong. I would love to be wrong. But Russian strategy at the moment seems to be aimed at a split between Germany and the US, and if I´m right, this strategy is completely futile. I see no plan B. Not even a serious attempt to reach German public. It preoccupies me profoundly.
German governments like to talk of peace. Until 5:44 in the morning.
Once a Nazi always a Nazi! Do you really think that Germans would denounce “the works” of their grandfathers? Never! They just do not voice them out loudly, but they are still darn proud of what their grandfathers did in WWII!
Do you really believe this?
If you do, you insult the memory of Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburgh.
In the end it’s the money. Follow money through the person and the network. From a German perspective it’s German money. From a San Francisco perspective all the orchestras play at the behest of Mephistopheles. Mammonism merely is the intermediary demon.
BND was already in the eighties training Croats for their tasks in breaking Yugoslavia apart.Hey Saker if you or the Kremlin thinks that Germany are the good guys than you are very very very very wrong.Yugoslavia was broken only after that political leadership of Slovenia and Croatia got full support from Germany that they would be recognised.Please,don’t be a naive fool.
Re Henn on Germany … Has a few good points on German corruption, how Germany turned the EU / euro into a rip-off debt-slave machine for its own benefit. And quite credible that Germany has been doing criminal shite in the East for some time, in the Balkans and Ukraine.
But the big perspective on Germany ‘going Russian’ is not a claim that existing German establishment is tilting Russian … but rather that a large German faction tilts that way, and they are not far from seizing power.
What Henn didn’t discuss was previous German Chancellor Gerhard Shroeder, who adopted a Russian orphan, works for Gazprom, has denounced US ‘sanctions’. German industrialists as well, they are quite pro-Russian. After Deutsche Bank blows up and collapses from their 50-trillion derivatives bankruptcy, the industrialists will take control.
For her part, Merkel blows with the wind. Once a loyal Communist apparatchik, when the Berlin Wall fell she turned on a dime. If the wind shifts again, she will shift with it. At the moment – with Putin looking like he has morally collapsed, and US-Nato looking ‘in control’, she is of course going with the stronger-looking horse. But she speaks fluent Russian and, in a near future where German and EU banks have collapsed, the US is bankrupt, if Putin looks strong again … Merkel would, in a heartbeat, lead Germany to Russian partnership.
Henn’s ideas remind of an odd UK writer / lawyer, Michael Shrimpton, with wild-sounding claims that many evil events today are actually dictated by a secret German intelligence service continuing Nazi crimes, and who have infiltrated US UK etc. … Some say he’s a funny Israeli shill, blaming Germans like in an old movie.
What is definitely true is that Steinmeier has a long history of aiming to expand western influence into post-soviet space. For example he supported Uzbekistan through the troubled times of the massacre and tried to find a “diplomatic” solution in Georgia just before the war started there.
Thank you Saker and thank you Dagmar for the information.
Excellent details.
Putin’s policy is not one track. He really has options. Merkel was in China yesterday. She was working for Daimler and her other industrial giants, not the U.S. and nazism.
Kiev was the ideal place to rebirth Nazism. It also is the graveyard of Nazi dreams. Bandera was shot dead in Munich. His followers will find similar endings. Putin owns that playbook.
BTW, if you think German business isn’t flaming mad at their government being a vassal of the US in this matter it’s because you’re seventy years in the past. They are whom the pressure is coming from, and it is immense.
So it’s not Putin who has good relations with Germany, but it’s Merkel who has mean of leverage on Russia through Putin?
Do you remember Bond 007 “The world is not enough” where all thought a heroin was enchanted by a terrorist (Stockholm syndrome) but in reality it was him who was “enslaved” by her? :)
Hmm, interesting. Then Siemens CEO visit in opposition to Mrs. Merkel would be German trick to blind Mr. Putin. All chorus of German industrialists sang in unity to BND blueprint (knowingly or not) to fool Russia?
Then OSCE incident would be excellent example and proof who controls the events in Ukraine, for everybody I think.
Well, Russia should check all industry control electronics from Siemens or any gizmos of German origin for Stuxnet mutations.
Nonsens. The whole german industry is against Merkels path in this case.They also try to prevent economical sanctions. What exactly germany would gain in Ukraine compared to losses in the trade with Russia? The german and european business leaders are the target of the russian policy,not the puddle Merkel.
The operative word here is the IMF. It is the the banks stupid. And whom again are the key shareholders of the IMF/World Bank?
On 15 October 1959, Stepan Bandera collapsed outside of Kreittmayrstrasse 7 in Munich and died shortly thereafter. A medical examination established that the cause of his death was poison by cyanide gas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Death
T1
Many thanks to Dagmar Henn for her very informative essay. I’m not so sure that Germany is an entirely independent actor in all this, and I certainly don’t think that Modern Germans are secret Nazis, though they may have some imperial ambitions.
Be that as it may, I do agree with her most important point, that Germany can’t easily be broken away from the US. At least not for a long time and under very different conditions than those prevailing now. So, if Russia is showing enormous restraint in the hopes that might cause Germany to break with the US, it is a poor strategy. Of course, I DO think Russia should avoid war to the extent that it can. But winning points in Germany isn’t one of the reasons.
France has a much better chance of regaining some measure of independence and may be willing to entertain some kind of entente cordial with Russia. It stood firm on the Mistral sale and is mad as hell about the BNP “fine” imposed in a naked US shake down. This may be due to France possessing a nuclear force du frappe, or general French annoyance at being the constant butt of ridicule in the US.
Personally while I find letter intelligent and useful I believe that trying to divide the western powers (and their motivations) up by nationality is itself, a mistake . The German government and German corporate media have been on a ferocious and Russophobic propaganda campaign. German re-militarization is the aim. What is driving this aggression against Russia is western FINANCE CAPITAL – represented by Wal Street and Brussels. The average German is against this hyper aggressive remillitarism. There is no popular nationalist appetite in Germany. German manufacturing is against it as are other sectors of the German economy but the hyper reactionary finance sector rules. The old post war arrangement has been abandoned by the banker empire. Hegemony of the western banking system (with all the “austerity” and “structural readjustments” blatantly favoring the rich)is the true ideology. I wonder if Russian people truly understand this, and understand that, as long as they resist it they will be the enemies of “the west” and a growing hope of its own abandoned disenfranchised working classes (as they once were).
In as much as this site and its reader are unequivocally pro Novorossiyan and not ideologues per se, this website
http://www.wsws.org/
has the best analysis of the present political and economic crises available today. They have a German language site and they have been all over German re-militarization for a long time now – even if one does not agree with them on all things. They are anti – nationalist and are not a “pro” site. In fact sometimes it seems like they are anti everything, but then, that reflects a reality of our times and a willingness to look at it truthfully.
From German you can not expect anything good, except from its ordinary and decent people, like the people of Die Linke.
When talking about Nazis it’s crucial to remember that they were largely financed and supported by US/UK strategists intent on preventing a Eurasian alliance between Germany and Russia — the nightmare of the Seapowers. (There’s a growing literature on this subject — a good place to begin is Preparata’s “Conjuring Hitler.”)
Whether Germany is a vassal or an accomplice of the Anglo-Americans is thus an issue secondary to the question of whether her ultimate interests lie in the East or the West?
-Armenian Catholic
As an expat German and strong supporter of Russia and Russias right to the Crimea I found this last article very disappointing.
I stood in front of the Brandenburger Tor “Gate” close to the German Bundestag holding a Russian flag.
My uncle was 16 and fell defending Berlin from the Russians. I therefore never knew him.
The old Germans are somehow NAZI minded is a very old and overused argument.
Does Germany want 35% of its lands back added to Poland and Russia absolutely.
Does Poland want its Ukrainian area back which was Poland. Absolutely.
Who is stoking the fire. Its not Germany and certainly not average Germans or German industry.
There is a new yet old alliance reforming. Russia, France, Germany.
Germany & Germans are tired of being still being treated by the US as if the German economic miracle in the 50s was all due to the Marshall plan and not to a self sacrificing work ethic.
The old Germans and Nazis comparison is old & outdated, but across the border in The Netherlands is where the real parasitic elite and lapdogs of Washington fester their parasitic existence.
The Dutch multinationals and biggest bootlickers & turncoats of
Europe supporting the Kiev nutjobs.
Do a Google on Dutch politicians in the area for the last 20 years many of which with ties to the weapons industry.
The old, Germans like war, or are war mongering, or anything alluding to such a theme I find very offensive and disappointing. But as a German have no problem to appreciate, value & respect any investigation and subsequent proof of such suggestions, insinuations or theories.
As far as I am concerned Germans do hope for some German lands back but are more than happy to support Russia as a new replacement partner for the USA.
The latest arrested German US double spy in the German security services will help the process.
This comment is very offensive
“Once a Nazi always a Nazi! Do you really think that Germans would denounce “the works” of their grandfathers? Never! They just do not voice them out loudly, but they are still darn proud of what their grandfathers did in WWII!”
I cant even begin to describe the many things that point out that this in itself is as historically wrong and racist as one can get.
Sad to see this sort of Garbage popping up here on this blog which I respect.
Those who dwell in the past are bound to be confused in the present and lost in the future.
Interesting read, she can be right, although the US role is obvious and the German role maybe downplayed in my eyes and maybe overplayed in hers.
In the end I see this as a quisi-discussion – it does not really matter right now, Russia has NO friends (at least West of Russia).
Russia should treat everyone with scepsis and be very cutious to be blinded by fair promises from German industry leaders. Of course they do not come with gifts. No one in business does. They will gladly rip the hearts out of Russian business if they get the chance. Russia really need to protect its interests, and be firm about it.
Interesting point, however i disagree with some conclusions. Of course the author resides in Germany, and may see better, but i disagree with a point that Russia has made “Not even a serious attempt to reach German public”. From what i see in US the majority of protesting voices like “Yazenuk terrorist”, etc., voices from TV and media against the Ukrainian junta, i hear them form Germany. A mentioning Putin in a context like “he doesn’t understand what’s going on in Germany” also doesn’t make sense to me. Who else than Putin who worked for KGB for years in Germany knows things better?
germany “accompliance or a vassal ” what is the REAL stategical difference ?
The REAL strategical datum is that russia has given up , novarussians will be massacred and novarussia will be ethinically cleaned up without that putin has tried to keep its promises.
And so great shame and great political weakness for both russia and putin. ( :evil: )
@Saker: your labeling is wrong. It is Dagmar and not Dagman! Dagmar is a common German female 1st name.
Most of what she wrote and most of what is written in Saker’s blog is not understanding the deep crisis of capitalism. To my understanding politics follow the needs of the economic machine – and not the other way around. Like it or not – but only this way you can explain what is going on.
What we do have is a world system in crisis. So form this point of view, it is not the “good or bad” Russians or the “good or bad” Americans. Same applies to Germany. In other words every country and its rich guys are just following their interests. That makes it almost impossible to 100% agree with one side or the other. It is the world of wolves. And the fact that this is the case is the problem. There still is no new socialist movement, there is no obvious option outside the capitalist logic – neither in the US, Russia or Germany or any other place. The left – on a world scale – is still stuck in the 30s of last century. They do not understand the potentials for socialism/communism that emerges from computer, smartphones and IT. We – as the people – still allow the media and all the governments to set the agenda of what is meaningful, true or pragmatic. We are still unaware and we are mostly powerless.
Dagmar is right pointing out that Germany has made most European countries their colonies. The saying goes: instead of sending tanks we are now giving credit. Much more powerful than the military approach and a lot more devastating – and it looks much better then tanks!
Me and my buddies are debating for a long time – and we all have a leftist background – why Merkel and others are not concerned about being spied upon by the USA. One guy argued that Mrs. Merkel might be a former STASI (=east German secret service) spy and that the US knows it and uses it for blackmail. That might be true or not – but it does not explain why the whole German system does not care a bit about it.
It is so strange: every day we get more news about how much the NSA is collecting data. German media is full with it – besides having 70% of news about soccer. We do know that the NSA and others are doing major espionage on German industry. We had the hearing of Mr. Drake who was bashing the NSA and the US for hours like never before. And what is the result? None!
To us – more or less modern leftists – the issue of industrial espionage and the fact that nobody cares about it – and not just listing into conversations of Merkel’s phone – is still the most puzzling issue. It is just not possible that this is happening – without a major outcry by the German industry. They are capitalists and they have to follow their own logic: profits! However it did not happen! We had some minor public complains by guys from Infinion (former Siemens – their chip maker company) but that was it. This is deeply strange and cannot be explained easily.
Assuming Germany would only be a puppet to their US masters – the pattern would be: they would pretend to fight the US but same and at the same time cooperate. However what we see is not even denial!
To sum it up: they – the ruling circles of Germany, the banks, the industry must have a reason for what they do!
part2:
Again, we do not agree with most what Dagmar said when it comes down her reasoning – BUT – her idea that Germany is an accomplice to the USA makes A LOT of sense!
It is VERY important to understand Germany and what they really are and why they are the way they are. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment and then you might get their game:
England developed the idea of free market and the beautiful machine of capitalism (Adam Smith and others). France came up with the idea that the state regulates all the chaos and tells both sides how to behave – aka the capitalist and the worker. Germany, in this game, was only #3. They, the nation that always was to conservative, too backward, was trying to overcome their being #3 by mixing both sides. It is no co-incidence that later they came up with national SOCIALISM. That was their approach to leap frog the whole issue. As we know this major mind fuck – as in capitalists and workers are brothers – resulted in the worst war ever. The German capitalists or if you do not like the term: the German rich families lost the war.
What did they learn from it?
A LOT!
As we say they learned to eat chalk! That means: speak softly, pretend to be nice. Pretend to care about social problems. And wait. Wait for the time when the US – the winner of WW2 is weak enough. Then your 3rd coming is possible.
Some of what Dagmar said indicates the same: the Germans are into a really VERY deep game. Think Mossad sleeping agents but way more deep.
Over here all structures of how decisions are being made are hidden. All of them! Compared to this, the USA is an open book and so is Russia. If you want to compare Germany to any other country – it is not the US, Russia or France. It is more like China. Nobody understands them, bc it is all “underground”.
Therefore: my warning to everybody – friend or foe – is: DO NOT TRUST GERMANS!
They might not be the best chess players of the world, but they NEVER mean what they say.
And about Russia trying to link up with Germany: Enjoy! It will be your downfall!
XXX from Germany
German Politicians will NEVER work against american interrests.
just google for a thing called “Kanzlerakte”..
it’s much more than a simple conspiracy theory when you consider the facts since 1990.
the real politicians in germany and the EU are the big companys and they want to have the russian money and energy ressources.
german politicians are less powerful than poroshenko – they are paid for their work after their political careers – just look at joschka fischer(ex FM):
“Since the end of his political career, he has worked as a journalist commentator and consultant and in various positions in the economy, including as a lobbyist for Siemens, the car company BMW and the energy provider RWE and OMV (Nabucco)”- german wikipedia
only the big german companies can change the course – but i think they will be bought off by their american “partners”. the americans have bought transit pipelines in ukraine for an – as we say in german – appel und n’ ei.
so who’s the master? surely not the german russian-energy-depending industry cause they’ve alredy lost influence. sure, they are angry to have failed or have been fooled again – no surprise here.
i’m sorry, but i read all the news all day, can’t find any evidence that there’s somthing important happening in this sleeping, world cup drunken country.
with regards
Germany broke up Yugoslavia that was evident in the 90s. I suspected payback and that may be a factor in what happens in Ukraine.
There are several crossborder “regions” in the EU, but none in Germany, afaik. Correct me if I am wrong.
Also afaik, only one Chairman of the EU Commission, the first, came from Germany. The country makes itself invisible and still we know where the real EU power is. It is partly hidden in the UN SC, too.
A couple of years ago I listened to German radio. Eastern Europe was discussed and those interviewed in the East had almost all studied at German universities. I think Germany has made a point of attracting students from the East. The students absorb German culture and German thinking. This is not wrong, but it seems to be used for political means. The same thing happened in the 19th century. Students from all over the world, also from the US, came back to their countries with lots of ideas from the open German universities. The countrys cultural influence grows day by day now. Writers, artists, painters arrive in Berlin as they did in Paris and Rome in the past.
The question is what Germany does in Ukraine. Whatever it is, the US, France and Russia should know. I guess Putin is briefed everyday by the FSB. He will use that information for the best of his country. NSA is also very interested in Germany.
Germanys relations with other powers are of different kinds. One with the US, another with Russia. One with France and a complicated one with the UK. Small EU nations are colonies in the Union. Look at Greece.
Whatever is going on in Ukraine, I am certain the German people sincerely wants peace.
It may be necessary for Novorussia Army to take Berlin again.
All support to Novorussia!
Power to the people!
It is a confusing article, but politics is the art of deception.
Of course, ultimately, each player works for the advantage of his group, and Germany is not the exception.
They have an advantage, they had, and still have a spectacular intelligentsia, and they have not been extinguished, with many of them as she said rescued in Ukraine, and others through paperclip.
The Nazis and their children are still around, they just morphed into something else, more clever and insidious.
But for Ukraine, we have what could be called residual effects lasting after the event.
It is a fault line worth exploiting by any power wielder.
The independence of Germany does not hold. Some time ago it asked the US Federal Bank for an audit of the gold it holds on behalf of Germany. The answer was no audit was permitted. Germany then asked for its gold (~220 tones) back. It was told it would take 7 years and they were given ~7 tons back shortly afterwards. Germany has kept up the pressure about the return of its gold. Recently the US has told Germany that its gold has gone and there is no point in continuing with demands for its return. Germany has crept away, tail between its legs.
It is interesting that Ukraine’s gold was secretly shipped out of the country shortly after the coup.
The theory is all the gold has been sold to keep the price of gold down, and to maintain the strength of the US dollar. The irony is that most of the gold has been bought by China, India and possibly Russia.
As the saying goes, if you give a German a gun sooner or later he will point it at Russia. I guess history repeats itself.
Worth watching again:
http://rt.com/usa/germany-us-pact-komossa-978/
Also it’s claimed that the Germans can’t even give the rank of colonel without approval. And, details of the re-education of Germany can be found in the book “The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters” by Frances Stonor Saunders
@Anon @21:51
Absolutely!
The problem is getting these nutjobs to understand that it ain’t still 1942.
“When talking about Nazis it’s crucial to remember that they were largely financed and supported by US/UK strategists intent on preventing a Eurasian alliance between Germany and Russia — the nightmare of the Seapowers. (There’s a growing literature on this subject — a good place to begin is Preparata’s “Conjuring Hitler.”
Conspiracies that cannot be demonstrated are, well, dreams.
If you think that the US Gov’t or the Roosevelt administration, financed Hitler – you’re insane.
Ask Germans, please ask Dagmar about this:
Helmut Kohl and Gorbachev made a secret agreement in 1987. About future of Ukraine. Yes 1987.
Ask if anyone knows about it. I read about it in a German economics source.
It is a background point of analysis, that has current importance.
Why would there be any doubt as to Germany being a vassal of the USA since 1945, any more than there would be about old East Germany being a vassal of the USSR until 1989?
That said, the USSR collapsed and so will the USA. If, as many believe, that is what is happening now, it would explain a lot, particularly about Germany via Russia.
Knowing what we know about the USA, what could be more welcome than a German-Russian alliance – which ultimately means a European-Russian alliance? I.E. sending the USA back to its own shores.
If the impressionable movie-goers would learn that it’s not still 1945 they might see the advantages of changing their Soviet/Yank discourse.
Preparata is a “must read” and it would be easy to discount if it weren’t for a truly massive source list.
I dont see many nations acting in their own interest of their own accord, it’s almost as if some foreign evil hand has infected the leaderships of the globe with the purpose of sucking the living energy of humanity to satisfy an infinate, insatiable greed.
I could be wrong.
T1
Off topic perhaps, but here is a YouTube with Preparata, and an interview with Lars Schall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYnpcnlnsmA
http://www.larsschall.com/2012/06/10/the-business-as-usual-behind-the-slaughter/
Operation Paperclip brought key Nazis to the US where they had no problem insinuating themselves in key power positions, particularly intelligence services. These people made alliances, first covertly and now pretty much in the open, with criminal organizations around the world. The result has been the Nazification of ruling circles here. The whole Neo-Conservative thing is warmed over Nazi programs. During the 69 years of my life (I started reading about it in fifth grade) I have watched the USA change radically. From a somewhat warm population cheering for peace, the place has turned Nazi mean-spirited. Vast numbers of political prisoners, abandonment of the Bill of Rights (unless you are a “corporate person.” If Fascism is the alliance between corporations and government power, the US has gone beyond the point of no return to Fascism. So I have no reason to doubt the article except to say that Nation States hardly matter any more. The UN Security Council rules the world and NATO are their legions. A set up for a first strike nuclear war directed at Russia is the next step. The gas companies won’t mind the radiologically contaminated ground. The resources they crave are under ground, and, with the elimination of the Russian people, there will be no complaints about the looting and despoliation.
Grim, but consistent with post WWII history.
herb
Dagmar Henn’s analysis is very interesting. I don’t want to believe her conclusion, but it is not inconceivable. Either way, I think it is beyond doubt that Russia has to be very careful in dealing with Germany.
I want to add some more observations and notes, in no particular order:
German anti-Russian propaganda is vicious and coordinated. For example Schröder supports Putin and he gets attacked viciously, the Greens even tried to smuggle a passage into some EU declaration which basically told Schröder to stfu. Schmidt supports Putin, and the press called him senile. Young CDU guy Mißfelder attended Schröders birthday party in Russia where Putin was also present, and now Mißfelder’s career is most likely ruined, he is viciously attacked in the press. Gysi tries to soften the fronts, attempts some diplomacy and he gets ridiculed. There are countless more examples.
German party landscape is dangerous. Basically you have one gigantic party made up of CDU-CSU-SPD-Greens-FDP. Then there is the “Alternative for Germany”, which is supposed to be an anti-EU party, but it’s a trap. And the only somewhat good party is “The Left”, but they have absolutely no chance, and there is a vicious smear campaign against them, the campaign has been active for 20 years and will not stop.
There is no doubt that German secret services are heavily involved with neo-nazism, domestic and foreign. Nazism is heavily rooted in the German political apparatus. German police is full of nazis and so is the army, it is sickening.
There are a lot of people who are receptive to fascism, some are shy about it publicly and to themselves, but they can be manipulated to accept extreme forms. Think of the boiling frog. The fact is that much of what is written in German press nowadays would have been unthinkable decades ago, but there is no uproar from the people. I think the majority right now is pro-Russia, but if push comes to shove they won’t be able to do anything, the German right-wing populus may be a minority, but it’s a big minority.
Two presidents (Köhler and Wulff) were made to resign recently. The new one (Gauck) again and again demands that Germany should become more active militarily in world affairs.
The most prominent NSA critic, Frank Schirrmacher, recently died from a heart attack, aged 54 — very suspicious. In general the entire German NSA-investigation is a joke, a complete and utter joke. Germany cooperates with NSA as best as it can, and it won’t change no matter what.
Whoever thinks that German industry supports Russia because they want to sell their stuff there, think about how much more they would love to take over Russia, instead of just selling stuff there.
Germany supports fascists not only in Ukraine, but also tolerates them in Greece. In light of Henn’s analysis we can also think about the rise of new conservative European parties in another way. It is conceivable that these parties are supposed to give a platform for a move toward the right. The big established parties will have no problem to move with them, this in turn radicalizes the new conservative parties. The demonization of the new parties could be a psy-op. Either way it is very difficult for me to imagine that these parties are allowed to flourish without the consent of TPTB. Tbh I don’t even exclude the possibility that the elections are entirely rigged.
There already exist organized neo-nazi structures in Germany. A lot of neo-nazis in football club fanbases. In general Germans are lazy when it comes to protests, if there is a shift to the right then they will just swallow it, especially if the real conflict is outside. Germans have a very high tolerance for the suffering of others even if it is Germany who inflicts this very same suffering, and they will delude themselves into believing the most nonsensical excuses, as we have seen in the case of Greece.
But you know what? Putin knows Germany. I don’t believe that he will allow himself to be misled.
Yonatan 22:30
Excerpts from:
http://www.professorfekete.com/articles.asp
See PDF entitled
American Bases in Germany… DTD
2013-1-28.
Germany is neither independent nor sovereign, prevailing pretences notwithstanding. It has American troops on her soil for reasons unexplained and unexplainable after all Soviet occupying troops were withdrawn almost 25 years ago. Equally significant is the fact that the lion’s share of the German gold reserve is in American custody. If the Bundesbank asked for the repatriation of a token part of that gold over a long period of time, we may take it for granted that it was done on American instructions.
But why would the Americans ask the Bundesbank to request the return of a part of German gold from the ‘safety’ of the basement of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in lower Manhattan? Surely not because the vaults are bulging with American gold and they have to make room for more.
The crux of the article suggests Germany should open their mint to gold. I believe Russia would be well advised to do the same.
“The latest arrested German US double spy in the German security services will help the process.”
What do you mean, Anon? Any link?
German business will decide Germany’s future.
The Chinese will have that New Silk Road tying the Pacific and Asian populations to East Europe.
You think Germany will wait for the US to lead the way to that 3.5 Billion person market at their backdoor?
War is not good for business unless your business is war.
Even the MIC businesses don’t lift an economy. They drain it. The US grows deeper in debt with each foreign adventure.
Germany learned something in the 20th Century.
Japan is unlearning or never learned.
The US is too f**king stupid and psychopathic to learn anything. But it is very good at Tyranny and accumulating power.
Yes, all foreign politicians are in America’s back pocket. Their military staffs are, also. People sell out cheap these days.
But give Putin some credit for understanding these things.
Russia and China will not be duped into wars. They will not be contained. Eurasia will arise.
It isn’t “Peace in our Time”. But there are enough investors, private millionaires and billionaires who understand that Eurasia is the salvation for global economic growth. Later, there will be Africa, but in the 21st Century there is Eurasia. Capitalism will save the world. Not big Capitalism. The venture and joint venture risk-taking capital that has transformed China and will work in all the countries of Eurasia.It has oil and gas and massive populations. Everything is needed in most of the countries. Roads, utilities, schools, homes, airports, rail, trucking, food, infrastructure, cars, medical, hospitals. Half the world needs to be built and connected.
Germany wants a piece of the action.
The U.S. counter-offer is DEBT and CHAOS.
A slight correction Yonatan:
“(..) Recently the US has told Germany that its gold has gone and there is no point in continuing with demands for its return.”
Apparently there was no necessary official/public input from the US side for the change of stance of the Federal Bank of Germany.
more here
On Henn’s piece, I’d say its insigthful. How tight exacly is the US/Germany relation? It does constrain (my own whishful thinking on) the possibility of it breaking down as a favourable development regarding the present crisis.
“So both sides of this partnership in aggression share the same problem, and no trade balance with Russia can fill this gap. Both need a real destruction of real values on a large scale, and they need it soon.”
I’m reminded of how overall this is ultimately a intercapitalistic crisis, all main actors in dispute are eminently under capitalist systems. But if we broadly characterize them further: matured/financialized/deregulated/inproductive vs cumplicit/industrial/reformist/productive strains of Capital. These strains intermesh but are visibly hanging by threads.
Leading us where all capitalist avenues of development have ultimately converged into: War.
Or not: How divorced is industrial from financial Capital in each of the contending countries, but specially, Germany?
If I understand well, in Dagmar’s view, “no trade balance with Russia can fill this gap”, and war is inevitable already. Another way of saying the situation is hopeless. Perhaps a “trade balance” in a BRICS context would move Germany’s away from doom?
Germany has not forgotten its ambitions were thwarted by the Anglo-Americans in two world wars. They do indeed play a deep game, with Russia as a natural ally against the alien influence of the sea based Anglo American Empire.
The dream of a silk road through China, Russia and Germany. These three are old cultures with souls deep in history. They can stand alone for their people and in economic partnership of mutual advantage rather than financial exploitation which forms the idea and power of the Anglo-American Empire.
These three are nations with natural advantages that are complementary. The people are not enemies as one finds in the bar late at night. Blood and war has defused the old animosity between Germans and Russians. They have a mutual respect of people who have tested each other metal and know these are the one’s who mean what they say in politics and business.
The hysteria of the Anglo Zionist American Empire results from the deep fear that this partnership of independent nations on the silk road of prosperity is a more balanced future vision for humanity than the oligarchic tyranny of the Empire of finance.
I think this essay is no surprise to Russia or China for that matter. They wait and prepare the ground for the financial collapse of the Empire of Finance. Then the true power of partnership of equals will confront the oligarch’s everywhere with the choice of fair participation in society or destruction.
Putin forced the oligarchy to relinquish privilege without responsibility. This is the future of the silk road world. There will be oligarch’s, but they will be allowed if they pay taxes and invest in the people and infrastructure of the nation. No more privilege without responsibility.
“If you think that the US Gov’t or the Roosevelt administration, financed Hitler – you’re insane.”
Insane? Yes, like the thought of the CIA and the Mossad financing and organizing Ukie Nazis.
To help with your own sanity, which seems a bit frail, you might want to consult, among numerous other works, the following:
•Halford Mackinder, “The Geographical Pivot of History” (1904)
•Anthony Sutton, Wall Street & the Rise of Hitler (1976)
•Charles Higham, Trading with the Enemy (1983)
•John Diggins, Mussolini and Fascism: The View from America (1972)
•William Dodd, Ambassador Dodd’s Diary 1933-1938 (1941)
•Harald Winkel, ed. Finanz- und Wirtschaftspolitische Fragen der Zwischenkriegzeit (1973)
RUssia needs Germany to consolidate the EUrasian power and break US hegemony.Whoever controls Eurasia controls the world.US is trying to prevent this.Each palyer knows this and they are playing it with their own agenda ofccourse. The article’s perspective may be seen as another way to understand german behaviour but I believe, Putin is on target.
Hello Saker,
Well, certainly it would be foolish to think that the Nazi beast in Germany was destroyed with finality when the US and Russia steamrolled through Germany in 1945. One of my favorite recent Russian movies is called “Belyi Tigr” by the Russian-Armenian director Karen Shakhnazarov. At the end of the movie, as Russian tanks are closing upon Berlin, a passionate Adolf Hitler explains to an unknown visitor that wars never end, that they are waged eternally, even if we don’t see it in our own time and space. So it would certainly not be a surprise if there were a solid and enduring link between the Kiev Nazis and the descendants of their German enablers.
At the same time however, the only real future for Germany and Russia lies in a German-Russian partnership, and not in a Nato alliance or a Eurasian Union respectively. This is what the Geopolitics expert Albrecht Haushoffer understood acutely, although his recommendations to the Nazi leadership were ultimately ignored, with the consequences that we now know.
But his conclusions are as relevant as ever, and the present German leadership would also ignore them at their own peril.
As always, all the best from American Russophile on Ol’khon Island, Lake Baikal.
@Do you really think that Germans would denounce “the works” of their grandfathers?
Or of their great-grandfathers for that mater. Why does the present situation looks like July-August 1914? Because it does.
Although not very apparent at first glance, the aim of WWI was the dismantling of Russia. Germany was the only force capable to undertake such a task. It is arguable whether it was the old Drang nach Osten dream that lurked behind the planning of the German General Staff or whether some other less visible influences used the German dream for their own purposes. It is undeniable that the Germans fell enthusiastically for it and seized the pretext of the assassination of Franz Ferdinand to apply the program of the German nationalist movement (Alldeutscher Verband – The Pan-German League) of 1891: „Der alte Drang nach dem Osten soll wiederbelebt werden” (“The old Drang nach Osten must be revived”).
Let again draw attention to the elephant in the room:
“The League of East European States (German: osteuropäischer Staatenbund) was a political idea conceived during World War I for the establishment of a buffer state (Pufferstaat) within the Jewish Pale of Settlement of Russia, composed of the former Polish provinces annexed by Russia, which would be a de facto protectorate of the German Empire in Mitteleuropa. The plan was proposed already in 1902, when prominent Zionist Max Bodenheimer wrote a memorandum to the German Foreign Ministry in which he claimed that Yiddish, the common language of East European Jewry who lived in the provinces annexed from Poland by Russia and Austria, was “a popular German dialect”, and that these Jews were mentally well disposed to Germany by linguistic affinity and hence could be an instrument of German imperial policy in the East. In August 1914, a German Committee for Freeing of Russian Jews (Deutsches Komitee zur Befreiung der Russischen Juden) was founded by German Zionists, including Bodenheimer, Franz Oppenheimer and Adolf Friedmann, and Russian Zionist Leo Motzkin.
According to this plan, the new state should be a monarchy ruled by the Hohenzollern dynasty”.
The population of some 30 million of this state would be composed of 6 million Jews, 8 million Poles, 11 million Ukrainians and Belarusians, 3.5 million Lithuanians and Latvians, 1 million Romanians and under 0.5 million Baltic Germans. Isaiah Friedman in the book Germany, Turkey, and Zionism 1897-1918 on page 231 gives the following number of nationalities: Poles, 8 million; Ukrainians, 5 million; Belarusians, 4 million; Lithuanians, Estonians, and Latvians, 3 to 5 million; Jews, 6 million; and Germans, 1.8 million. While in theory all the groups were to enjoy national autonomy, the Poles were to be “counterbalanced” and Jews and Germans were to “tip the scales” in the proposed state. Isaiah Friedman notes that such a collection of nationalities had merits for German war aims, as it would be dependent on Germany, while a separate Polish state spelled danger”. From Wikipedia.
The plan was put on the back burner in 1916 when Germany and Austria inclined for the revival of a Polish Kingdom. But it was never abandoned.
@EVERYBODY:
Looks like we have not only a troll problem, but also an impersonator issue. First there was the fake “James” who was not James, but another guy. Today it turns out that the “Lucky” above is not Lucky at all, but probably the same person who posed as “James”.
Hang in there guys, this will all end pretty soon, and I will make an announcement about this as soon as I have the specifics.
In the meantime, assume that we have an impersonator trolling everybody just to start flamewars.
Sorry and thanks for your understanding.
The Saker
I am writing as Lucky since the first day I cam to this blog (probably mistake). If you have an issue with my posts, I am sure you are computer literate enough to compare IP addresses my posts are coming from. If you need more validation/verification send me en email to trek_team@yahoo.com
If your problem is the way I write about Germans then I would say that you have a problem not me. No nation, and I mean no one, which thoughout its history has the record of throwing children and elderlies in gas chambers will have my respect! If you do not like it you can always delete it as this little piece of Internet is apparently yours.
In addition, introduce user logins and passwords and you will know exactly who and from where is leaving posts. So, take it easy about trolls and other drones.
Also, relax Mr.KGB
This is a very thought-provoking piece, and certainly hard to discount.
But It’s important to recognize that Neoliberalism, for all the fancy (self-serving) terminology/ideology/whatever, boils down to oligarcy, rule by oligarchs. That means more than one of these monsters, so it also means corruption and competition of all sorts and degrees. But it also means, I think, that Neoliberal states — the West — don’t really have one leader who sets policies: instead, the leaders are likewise beholden in various ways and to various extents to the (corrupt, competing) oligarchs who put — and keep — them in power. Not only does this explain our often incoherent foreign and domestic “policies”, it strongly suggests that no Western country can be considered to have *a* policy on anything: all you have are competing factions, shifting loyalties and “leaders” trying desperately to keep one step ahead of whatever might be going on behind their backs. And we’ve certainly had our Nazis here, Lord knows, both home-grown and imported.
But this piece brings another thought to mind: is there something in losing a war that leads the losing side to never admit defeat? Certainly that happened here after the Civil War when the deal making Hayes president ended Reconstruction (which immediately got a not-entirely-warranted bad name) and slavery was essentially re-instituted (with a side of state-sponsored terrorism) under sharecropping and Jim Crow. To the North, the thing was over and done, to the South it was just merely the next phase, an interregnum of sorts. But I always thought the Marshall Plan, awful as it was in some ways and despite Operation Gladio etc., kept that from happening in Germany. So my next question is: to what extent are these people truly Nazis — complete with the racist ideology and disgusting methodology — as opposed to virulent nationalists angling for German economic and/or political domination and willing to use whomever to accomplish it? Don’t forget, *we* were present at the birth of Pravy Sektor and Svoboda, and the Republican Party here supported Bandera and his Shukevitch deputies as much for the ethnic vote and donations as for any ideological reasons — but the Dems saw the power there and joined in too so both sides have been up to their eyeballs in this stuff for quite a while now. And “we’re” many things, many very nasty things, but there aren’t too many Congresscritters or Presidents who could accurately be called Nazis.
Bottom line: it’s a Godawful system but changing it is going to be a challenge since We The People have become pretty powerless politically as well as economically.
20:31 Lucky said…
Once a Nazi always a Nazi! Do you really think that Germans would denounce “the works” of their grandfathers? Never! They just do not voice them out loudly, but they are still darn proud of what their grandfathers did in WWII!
I would never be so cruelly judgmental of an entire generation, or two. You, lucky how ever you are, should never automatically assume everyone is a hater as you appear to be. Can you please change your name. Due to the fact I do not appreciate being associated with the hate you seem to have for innocents. Rethink your anger, most certainly, that would set you free. We are in this together. Humanity v Empire. Blessings!
@”Lucky”: I am writing as Lucky since the first day I cam to this blog.
My problem with that is that the real Lucky, with whom I have email exchanges, told me about your fraud. Also, I don’t like your arrogant to. Ergo: go away. Bye bye!
The Saker
Both Germany and the USA answer to these people and interests:
Naming Names: Your Real Government
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/03/naming-names-your-real-government.html
A rivalry between Germany and the USA is like a business rivalry between Chrysler and Ford.
Anyone – please answer this:
Everyone knows that the victors write the official history, right? Of those who understand that and who understand the nature of those three governments, who would believe what the USSR, US & British Governments said about their “great patriotic war? Who cannot see that, of the three, Russia has done an about face (its rhetoric notwithstanding)?
Vladimir Putin will soon travel yo Latin America, there is big chance that USA shots his airplane.
In that case America could say we did not do or we did and Russia will be able to do nothing but to put other guy as the president.
The nuclear war will not start even in such situation.
Again, we do not agree with most what Dagmar said when it comes down her reasoning – BUT – her idea that Germany is an accomplice [ and vassal ] to the USA makes A LOT of sense!
———————————-
Thanks
Croat and Russophile
I found this link at MoA…
very interesting.
http://syncreticstudies.com/2014/07/05/analysis-of-july-5-slaviansk-developments/#more-1028
“elsi said…
From German you can not expect anything good, except from its ordinary and decent people, like the people of Die Linke.”
Salam Dearest Sister,
Well said!
One can not expect anything good from the Ruling Class, as they are Power and Money Hungry.
But the ordinary and decent people everywhere in the world make the masses. And, for this reason the Human Race has survived for generations, and will survive for generations more, with all these war crimes committed against them.
We have been Created the Best of Creation, but Created Weak in Desire. Still we are the best, the ordinary and decent people everywhere, throughout the World.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
As an Austrian I am sceptical of Dagmar Henn’s thesis, because I know from personal experience that even governments consist of many players with varied motives, values, and objectives. OTOH, that there are many eager German collaborators/accomplices on a personal and institutional level, is certainly true, one must only look at the incredible anti-Russian propaganda.
In both Germany and Austria there have been many voices raised againt the current evil and misguided course, only to be drowned out, ignored and slandered as soon as they become relevant, as described so well on this thread. In my own modest way I added dissenting comments to the mainstream media, till they started to censor those.
Regarding Nora’s question about the long term effects of losing a war: speaking as an Austrian, we also lost the war, but today there is zero appetite here for more war or aggression in the wider populace; and why do you think the current German president has to try and persuade a reluctant country towards a more active military stance? His exhortations fall flat, as far as I can tell, even with all the media propaganda behind it. Apart from small pockets of losers, you can forget about a Nazi revival here. Unless we are speakinf of a more insidious nazism under the US brand, something much more attractive, for the elites at least. They can lie to themselves that they are on the right side of history this time. But it has little mass appeal, and the US brand is increasingly damaged.
I agree with others who argue that the real reason behind the accelerating aggression and recklessness is economical. The world financial system is like a card house already beginning to shake. If Russia can wait it out, it will be in a better position than most to pick up the pieces. Whatever is behind the current US and EU elites’ conspiracies and policies, there is something of desperation behind it.
“Human6 • 4 days ago
Point Number 6 is very problematic-
It certainly is a truism that the capitalist states which emerged in the former USSR, Yugoslavia, Albania, DDR, Eastern Europe, and Romania are entirely illegitimate, (as are the imperialist drawn borders in the colonial countries) and the former workers states (bureaucratically degenerated and deformed thought they were) are the fundamentally legitimate ones.
However Marxists do not simply base deeper sociological analysis soley upon the odiousness of a current regime. That would be impressionism. Saying that Russia and China are not counterweights tells little to nothing.
What is known is that Russia and China are NOT imperialist. They don’t export capital in order to drain wealth from colonies. Indeed, compare the economic deals Russia offered Ukraine vs. what the West forced on Ukraine, and the fact that for years after the USSR, gas prices to Ukraine were below the market value. Similarly with China’s deals with Africa, compared to the IMF and Worldbank.
Russia and China are obstacles to the imperialist countries in the West (i.e. US, and it’s current junior partners UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.), as well as current junior partner Japan. Western Imperialism seeks to turn them into colonies. Economically and militarily they can’t presently be directly bullied the way the colonial and semi-colonial countries. can be, althought time, pressure, and indirect bullying can eventually change that.
Furthermmore, is the SEP explicitly stating that China has become capitalist? If so, the leadership of the SEP has an obligation to state when exactlly quanitity turned to quality. When did the labor theory of value fundamentally determine prices, when did supply and demand take effect, when was the state monopoly on foreign trade broken? Large amounts of hard, material, historical data have to be provided.
The fact is that the biggest sections of the SEP are located in the Western Imperialist countries (except for the Sri Lankan one.) This in and of itself is not the problem. It is however a fact that the ideological apparatus, the indoctrination, and brainwashing of the capitalist dictatorship in those countries is the most sophisticated in human history.
There is massive pressure bearing down on those SEP sections to go along either openly or backhandedly with demonification of enemies of the Western imperialists. The ISO, CWI, SWP clearly function as left appendages of the bourgeois ideological apparatus, as the WSWS has so excellently pointed out. Will the SEP be able to resist, and demonstrate the ability to draw clear conclusions?” http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/03/icfi-j03.html
@German-Russian relations
The responsibility for starting the First World War was a matter of heated debates among historians. But I like to give some excerpts from a “controversial” book, Germany’s Aims in the First World War, by Fritz Fischer (1961)which reveal the duplicity of the German Governmant.
“Firstly, Russia must be made to appear to blame for the outbreak of war, and secondly, Britain must be kept neutral. Bethmann Hollweg believed himself to have found the key to this problem in the “policy of localization.” As early as July 26 he had expounded Germany’s governing ideas very clearly both to the Emperor and to Pourtalès, Lichnowsky and Schoen, in the words: “Since Count Berchtold has assured Russia that Austria is not aiming at any territorial extensions in Serbia … the maintenance of European peace depends exclusively on Russia.” Germany’s attitude must be “calm,” for only if attacked could Germany count on British neutrality and carry public opinion at home with her, the chief need being to get the Social Democrats’ support for war. From this point on the idea of making “Russia alone responsible for any extension of the conflict and disturbance of the European peace” appears with increasing frequency in the German documents. Jagow tried to influence the attitude of Italy, Rumania and Bulgaria in the event of a conflagration by asserting that both Germany and Britain were continually at pains to “keep the conflict localized” and that only Russia could begin the war.
The Chancellor took up this line of argument again in a memorandum sent by him on July 28, qua (in the capacity of) Prussian Prime Minister, to the Prussian legations at the German Courts. Again he defended
Austria’s conduct and underlined his policy of localizing the conflict. Just as Jagow, for example, writing to Bucharest on July 26, had alluded to the “obvious consequences” should Russia move against Austria, so Bethmann Hollweg ended his memorandum with the following passage: Meanwhile should, contrary to our hopes, an intervention by Russia spread the conflagration, then we should be bound under our alliance to support our neighbour with the whole might of the Reich. Only under compulsion would we resort to the sword, but if we did so, it would be in calm assurance that we were guiltless of the sufferings which war might bring to the peoples of Europe …. Russia alone must bear the responsibility if a European war breaks out. Finally, the Chancellor drafted a telegram from the Emperor to the Tsar which reveals more clearly still his intention of saddling Russia with the odium of a “European conflagration.” “If,” he told the Emperor, “war
should come after all, such a telegram would make Russia’s guilt glaringly plain.”
Regrettably what was intellectual discussion on the prevention of war crimes against Russian East Ukrainians has degraded into German bashing even with comments allowed calling all Germans and subsequent German generations Nazis.
Wow I just found out I am considered a Nazi.
Its elementary school name calling all over again.
It saddens yet amuses me.
I suggest this blog start a section on German politics of increased political liberation from the USA hegemony.
All the German bashing and racism directed to Germans by trolls here recently makes it clear to me that Germany & Russia should Unite to fight the Kiev, Washington supported Junta.
Waging War by the Art of Deception many anti German comments make it clear how afraid the current world order is of Germany joining Russia.
Then about,being called a NAZI, National Socialist as a evil metamorphosed 3rd generation Evil warmongering German mini me.
Muhahaha,
I suddenly feel like goose stepping and eating vast amounts of Sauerkraut.
Spasiva & Shalom Viktoria Nudelman & team who is writing comments on this blog from Haifa Israel.
Be careful what you wish for, I might be considering dusting my Gestapo boots and demanding the 200.000 refugees that are accepted in Germany yearly to get out of Germany.
Send them to the USA, the land of Golden streets and endless dreams with palaces made of Poroschenko chocolate lining the inner city streets of Detroit & Chicago.
I hope that Strelkov takes all of eastern Ukraine and does a few fly overs, over KIEV.
As Luftwaffe can I help?
As for any of you still stuck with blind hatred calling Germans NAZIS. Nonsense & Propaganda.
As a proud German ill say thanks guys for the intellectual compliments.
We Russian Communists, German Nazis & Krauts, French Escargots & Eastern Russian Ukrainian Terrorists should start our own Caliphate & Tea Party.
Some comments here read like a B movie bad hollywood NSA script with a US grade 9 high school education. D C-
NAZI NONSENSE about those Evil Germans. But I am flattered.
To Strelkov & Novorussiya. Friendly greetings & support from Germany. From an Evil “return of the Body Snatchers” German.
Lets start a German – Russian – Donbass Ukrainian Tea Party.
Invite the Kurdish Peshmerga into this new AXIS to join and for God sakes everyone recognize Kurdistan already, they have suffered enough.
From an Evil 3rd generation German apparently genetically engineered by Siemens to take over the world. LOL
I am sure Germany seeks its own advantage from the Ukraine situation, but as long as this is divergent from the US objectives, this is surely something Russia can live with.
In this context, this is more about how Russia can take advantage of two dogs fighting over the same bone.
Divergence between Germany (and EU) from US is a end well worth pursuing and a German/EU tilting Ukraine will be easier for Russia to deal with than a US/NATO one.
Dear Saker,
I found this thread only this morning – alas, the time difference, so perhaps everybody has already said everything that has to be said. But I just want to give you my opinion.
A shirt oversight over the last 70 years: After the war the Americans first initiated the “Entnazifizierungs-Programm” but realized very soon that there was no way to rebuilt a Germany state without all those “Beamten” and officers (I leave both words un-translated, because no translation gives all the connotation; by the way, they forgot about this excellent idea later in Irak when Bremer ousted everbody of the Saddam governemnt with the result we see today). The German population – both old Nazis and not so much Nazis – then put all their power into getting rich, the so called Wirtschaftswunder, and this enabled them to conveniently forget their past. They became apolitical and totally silent. Then the youth – like the generation everywhere at that time– tried the 68 revolution. It was shortlived. 10 years later they became part of the establishment, again like everyone of this generation. And now?
DH says: “The relative stability of German economy is based upon a consequent “beggar-thy-neighbour”-policy.”
The money for this very real project is taken from the normal German population to go directly to the Banks – Greece is only the transit land. Now, also in Germany the living standard is in decline – whatever the MSM tells you – and again, the normal people are trying to get on. So, 70% don’t want war, where they could loose all that is left – neither the conservative nor the younger ones.
“It´s impossible to prove how tight the connection between German authorities and the Ukrainian Nazis are. German archives are tightly closed; all the dirt accumulated since 1945 is still hidden.”
Some years ago there was the Wehrmachtsausstellung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmachtsausstellung) about the atrocities of the Wehrmacht, who up till was said to have been moderate compared with the SS. It got a huge outcry in Germany. So, I think that the archives are not that tightly closed. That nobody likes to look at them means only that they do not want to. As to Pullach, the old Nazi generation who had connections to Bandera are dead, the younger generation plays the old game every Security Service plays, nothing less but nothing more.
“Steinmeier, the German minister of exterior, was head of the chancellery and therefore coordinator of secret service activities from 1999 to 2005. So he was deeply involved in Kosovo already. Later he pushed the association of Ukraine to EU.”
She is giving Steinmeier too much credit. He is one of the Seeheimer SPD circle who has together with Gerhard Schröder dismantled the German social welfare state according to neoliberal ideas. He, himself, is not intelligent enough for the intrigues and double-dealings a successful Secret Service employee needs. He is a pressitute as all our politicians are.
“Everybody remembers that Nuland in her famous phone-call demanded Jazenjuk for government. Nearly everybody forgot that she also said “no Swoboda”. It was Steinmeier who opened the door for Swoboda.”
I got the impression that the German Government funded Klitschko through the Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung (CDU). The KAS is deeply conservative and I could imagine that in this “tropical greenhouse” some real Nazis have survived. But when Nuland said “Jatz”, Klitschko was told to go by our government including Steinmeier.
All our significant institutions are overseen by the Americans. The thought that Germany has such power as Dagmar Henn thinks it has could be a thrilling thought to some Germans, but I am afraid that we are only puppets.
Greetings
Angelika
Henn points out a relevant current of Germany’s Nazi residuals, those of the “Konservative Revolution” which was the industry and conservative upper bourgeois level, one important wing of the Nazi dictatorship (the other has been the syndicalistic fascist SA tradition). In August 1944, German industry magnates and the top echolon of SS met in Strasbourg to discuss the strategy after the inevitable military defeat:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1179902/Revealed-The-secret-report-shows-Nazis-planned-Fourth-Reich–EU.html
It is difficult to judge whether these reports are authentic or propaganda, but certainly, SS plans in late WWII envisioned a European economic union in a federal fashion along the Austro-Hungarian multi-ethnic state, but dominated by Germany. One can understand this plan as a draft for the EU, and certainly there exist political currents in Germany who try to implement this concept (now to a far extent realised due to Germany’s internal wage-dumping and export-pushing policy).
As with US policy, there are many different political streams also in Germany, and I doubt major overlapping of German and US interests which Henn suggests. But certain circles in German policy affine to this old SS policy (if they see it that way or not) might try to use US resources for their goals.
Anonymous said…
BND was already in the eighties training Croats for their tasks in breaking Yugoslavia apart.Hey Saker if you or the Kremlin thinks that Germany are the good guys than you are very very very very wrong.Yugoslavia was broken only after that political leadership of Slovenia and Croatia got full support from Germany that they would be recognised.Please,don’t be a naive fool.
06 July, 2014 20:50
NATO-USA wanted the whole Yugoslavia in NATO/EU
It could not happen at that time but the goal is still the same.
Not that they want to help somebody but to isolate Russia.
Dear Saker / Moderator
Am I the only one if I find the prior sort of commentary of topic?
Quote
“””Therefore: my warning to everybody – friend or foe – is: DO NOT TRUST GERMANS!
They might not be the best chess players of the world, but they NEVER mean what they say.
And about Russia trying to link up with Germany: Enjoy! It will be your downfall!
XXX from Germany”””
I am German, I am in Berlin, I am not a NAZI and I politely would like to propose (as this is not my blog) that instead of side tracking with incitement of hatred against Germans we can look at ways to help the people of DONBASS & the citizens of Eastern Ukraine.
As a German but most of all human being just like the citizens who suffer Genocide in Slavyansk, Donnetsk, Lughansk I do what little I can to create closer & positive relations between Russians & Germans in my own small sphere of influence.
Any Kiev Right Wing Junta supporter who thinks that Germans like me somehow identify with their racist genocidal anti Russian policies in Eastern Ukraine are completely misguided.
I must confess that I was very disgusted with the German bashing which I consider the same as lies about the innocent citizens of Donbass.
They voted for separation, federalization, independence.
But no human being deserves what the criminal washington sponsored regime changed gov of Kiev is doing to the east of the Ukraine.
Even if there are Chechens, Russians or whatever in Donbass. They are defending. Its Kiev & the Elite weapons & regime change interests in the USA & west who are attacking.
Here is a clear side note for you.
I am GERMAN, not a NAZI and I like Russians.
Anyone else for that matter that does not spew hatred including average Americans.
The question remains:
How can we help those people in Donbass
Vasca da Gama 00:00
Great name and perfect timing!
Thanks for the correction. I wrote the note from memory and I think that comment was based on someone else’s assessment (Paul Craig Roberts ?). Perhaps the original was a metaphor rather than literal. ‘No response’ would be the correct legal response.
I am German. I doubt Henn’s analysis. It is Germany that — for obvious economic reasons — tries to block any further attempt to increase the sanctions against Russia. However, Germany is no sovereign country. It very much behaves like East Germany did during the Soviet era. It is a lackey, a vassal, a satrap, and all German politicians know it. They show slavish obedience whenever it is demanded.
Dear Saker.
As someone who knows Germany well I should say that I am far from persuaded by this article. Briefly:
1. Steinmeier is a longstanding associate of the former Chancellor Gerhard Schroder whose office he ran before Schroder became Chancellor and for whom he served as chief of Schroder’s office after Schroder became Chancellor. Schroder is well known as a Russophile and as a close friend of Putin’s and Steinmeier (who my father personally knows) is known to share these feelings. He is considered today the most pro Russian politician in Germany. As Foreign Minister in 2008 he strongly opposed the Ukraine’s bid to join the NATO membership scheme.
2. It is an error to use German policy towards Yugoslavia as a frame for understanding Germany’s policy in the Ukraine. Germany had very strong political and cultural connections with Yugoslavia which it is simply does not have with the Ukraine. Since the Yugoslav crisis in every big international crisis (Iraq, Libya, Syria) Germany has tended to side with Russia and China and against the US.
3. For Germany its economic links to Russia are vastly more important than any notional benefits from including the bankrupt Ukraine in the EU single market. On the contrary the Germans must see the Ukraine at the moment as a burden not a benefit.
This is not to say that Russia can rely on Germany. Atlanticist sentiment remains very deeply entrenched in Germany and the Germans are very wary of getting into an open conflict with the US. They are also nervous of being seen to deal directly with the Russians because of memories of Molotov and Ribbentrop (one reason why they have pulled the French into the discussions). It may be that in this conflict they turn out a broken reed. However we should not make the Germans more malignant than they are.
Here is a very relevant interview of a German intellectual on the topic of Russia, NATO, Putin, Germany and Liberalism versus Morality, Tradition and Stability
Germany vs Eurasia
Also, Merkel in China, at a press conference openly questioned German cooperation with the U.S.
This was a calculated announcement to criticize the U.S. treatment with NSA and double agents spying on Germany. Saving her comment for Beijing is a loud shout out that things are shifting geopolitically.
Expect Merkel to be undermined at home. She can no longer be trusted by the Hegemon to do its dirty work. That is why they spied so much on her. She had a relationship with Putin.
“the german gov’t. likes to talk of peace until 5:44 am.”
5:44 am 22June,1941?
ghgh
Germany is a vassal of the D-Empire as much as the US.
German power-that-be is an accomplice of the D-Empire as much as the US power-that-be.
It’s not so difficult to understand (ordinary people are much more respected in Europe than in the US, where the police routinely beats savagely or kill persons for the most futile motives and no consequences to note).
The D-Empire, the cabal, call as you like, does not conquer nations; it hijacks them, taking over their power structures, through infiltration and control of monetary (rectius: credit) emission, to make their politics comply with its agenda of parasitical dominion and exploitation.
All Western nations share this sad present (Israel included, I’d argue), only the degree of that occupation varies.
That being the case, I’m afraid that Putin wastes its time both ways.
Addressing the persons in those power structures is useless. They have made their choice and only repentance could reverse it; moreover they are always expendable and easily changeable, like used diapers.
Addressing the public can bear fruits, but little practical consequences, as there’s very little that common people or honest politicians can do. These latter can be easily dealt with, through blackmail, libeling, bribes, infiltration of entourage, lead astray via false narrative or selectively assassinated (this list is very long).
People can revolt, but a look at every Revolution is enough to conclude that with it you end up only with more of the same, just under a brand new fictional narrative (and a spectacular bloodbath, which is the ultimate delight of the D-Empire).
Is there a way out?
Of course, Christ and His Word!
But don’t hold your breath, we are fallen creatures and worship the beast (even when we think to worship ourselves, as individuals, collectives or “humanity”)
The Book of Revelation is very clear in this aspect.
I am very sorry to say this, Maedros, but the hidden empire you describe very definitely has its roots in the USA. There has been an ongoing battle of the rightwingers (to loosely describe them) here since the Kennedy presidency, and in that they did resemble the underground Nazi movement that surfaces from time to time like the KKK for minor rallies and speechgivings. But the rightwing cohorts here are the successful ones, if you can call the chaos they have orchestrated a success.
For, not only did they field their own presidential candidates and succeed for a brief time to ‘own’ the country, but they also co-opted the opposition and all the branches of government to install a regime which supervises all of the world’s financial dealings and has gone global in ways the Nazis never could.
The entire US democratic system of checks and balances is broken. It remains to be seen if it can ever be restored. What must be restored is the global system of checks and balances. Then perhaps we in the US have a chance to do it as well.