Something fantastically interesting has happened in Novorussia: two senior Novorussian commanders, Igor Bezler and Alexei Mozgovoi have attempted to communicate with those Ukrainians who are on the other side.
Though I am not sure about the exact dates of the events (all I have is the dates of the posting on YouTube), this apparently began when Igor Bezler agreed to be interviewed by three TV crews at the same time: a Russian one, a Novorussian one, and a Ukrainian one. The big news here was, of course, that a Ukrainian journalist was given access to the city of Gorlovka, currently surrounded by Ukrainian forces, and that she got to speak with the local people, including combatants and then that she was given access to Bezler himself. Since all the journalists were more or less openly accusing each other of “filtering the truth” all parties agreed that the full recording, unedited, would be made available on YouTube. Now please keep in mind that in Banderastan, Russian journalists are blacklisted, Russian TV stations banned, and that the people in the junta controlled Ukraine are told that the other side are terrorists and Russian soldiers. Oh, and the Ukrainian media is the most disgusting, sold out, subservient, propagandistic you can imagine. And then suddenly, at least one Ukrainian TV crew agrees to show the face of one of the most feared Novorussian commanders and he get’s to speak his mind.
But the next event was even more amazing. Alexei Mozgovoi agreed to a videoconference with not only Ukrainian journalists, but with actual field commanders of the Ukrainian military. To see Mozgovoi and the Ukrainians speak directly to each other was absolutely amazing. And here I have to apologize. I will not ask our translators to translate and subtitle the full thing. First, there were not one, but two such videoconferences. Then, we are talking about three long videos, see for yourself:
Bezler interview: Published on Oct 21, 2014
http://youtu.be/uVN2wkuL88w (length: 2 hours 17 min)
First videoconference of Mozgovoi: Published on Oct 22, 2014
http://youtu.be/WYy5Y9MQozA (length: 1 hour 20 mins)
Second videoconference of Mozgovoi: Published Oct 28, 2014
http://youtu.be/tC7YGe0SmqQ (length:1 hour 51 mins)
I do hope that somebody somewhere will translate it all, but this is way too big a load for me to ask any of our volunteers.
Also, these are very complex videos. There are discussions, some short moments of yelling and interrupting, there is cross-talk and there are even two songs. This is complex, very emotional stuff, very hard to convey in a translated text. Besides, who will have the time to sit through it all?
No, what I propose is to share with you the elements which struck me so much.
But first I need to clarify an important point: while the original idea apparently had been to have combatants talking to combatants, the Ukrainian side only had a few commanders and a few activists. The Novorussian side was composed of actual soldiers. Apparently, the Ukrainian side did not feel comfortable putting their foot-soldiers on the spot.
First and foremost, it was amazing to see how much both sides fully agreed upon. Both sides agreed that this war was useless and only benefited the enemies of the Ukraine. Both sides expressed contempt, disgust and even hatred for the politicians in power and the oligarchs who rule over Banderastan today. Both sides also agree that Yanukovich was a scumbag and that the Maidan protests were absolutely legitimate but that the original protests had been hijacked by enemies of the Ukraine. Both sides also agreed that this war had to be stopped. Now, please keep in mind that Ukrainian Nazis were, of course, not invited. These were mainly regular Ukrainian military speaking to Novorussian military and Ukrainian activists speaking to Mozgovoi. There were also some real disagreements.
The Ukrainian position was this (paraphrase – not real quote): “the Maidan was legitimate and correct but you – the Novorussians – took up arms and you thereby created a crisis which the illegitimate junta used and which prevented us from defending our political goals. We don’t want our country to further break up and what you are doing is exactly that. Also, we know that the Russian “Polite Armed Men in Green” are fighting on your side and many of you are not representing true Ukrainian interests, but Russian interests. Stop fighting and join the political process to clean our country from the crazies“.
To which Mozgovoi replied (paraphrase – not real quote): “we did not choose to fight, you came to our land and you are killing our people. If you really want to clean Kiev from the Nazi scum, then don’t stand between us and Kiev and let us pass – we will take care of them no problem. You are taking orders from Nazis and oligarchs and you are doing nothing to stop them from killing our people. If we were to lay down our arms, we would all be massacred.
One interesting thing was that when the Ukrainians accused the Novorussians of doing Russia’s bidding, Mozgovoi replied that the Ukrainians were pawns of the CIA and, amazingly, the Ukrainians pretty much agreed that the CIA was running the show. As for Mozgovoi, he did not deny that Russia was helping.
Both sides were expressing frustration that they could not unite their forces and jointly get rid of the oligarchs and Nazis.
During the Bezler interview, there was one amazing moment was when the Ukrainian crew asked Bezler if he spoke Ukrainian, to which he replied that ‘yes’. Unconvinced, the Ukrainian crew asked him if he could recite a poem by the famous poet Taras Shevchenko. Then, to everybody’s surprise, Bezler recited the poem “to the Poles” in which Sevchenko describes how happy the Cossaks were,
Until in the name of Christ
The ксьондзи (Latin Priests) came and set afire
To our quiet paradise. And spilled
A huge sea of tears and blood,
And killed and crucified orphans
In the Name of Christ
The heads of Cossacks then dropped
Like trampled grass,
The Ukraine cried, and moaned!
And the head after head
Fell to the ground. As if enraged,
A priest furious tongue
Screamed: «Te Deum! Hallelujah! .. “
And this is how my Polish friend and brother!
Evil priests and rich men
Separated us from each other
When we could have lived together happy
[nb: this is my own translation, I could not find this poem in English anywhere; as any Russian, I mostly understand Ukrainian, but I can easily misunderstand a word or expression so, caveat emptor, and don’t take this translation to the bank! The Saker]
It was quite amazing to see how well Bezler spoke Ukrainian and how he used this opportunity to remind his Ukrainian counterparts how already in the past they were used and manipulated by Russia and Orthodoxy -hating westerners, and he did so using verses of their own national hero!
In another rather surreal moment, a Novorussian solider took out a guitar and sang a song about the war. The Ukrainians were clearly moved, although they were also disturbed by the fact that the song repeatedly said that these were “Russians fighting Russians”. This issue came up several again later in the conversation. From the Novorussian point of view, the Ukrainians were also part of the “Russian cultural realm” (as opposed to state or nationality) albeit with a different accent and a different history. The Ukrainians insisted that they were a different nationality, albeit one with strong ties to the “Russian cultural realm”.
During both the Bezler and Mozgovoi interviews the issue of prisoners was raised. Both sides reported that their men were mistreated and even tortured while in captivity. Interestingly, during the Bezler interview there were two Ukrainian officials present, one human right activist and another who was representing the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense for the topic of POWs. They both readily admitted that Bezler treated the Ukrainian prisoners not as prisoners at all, but as guests: they were free to walk around, they ate and slept with Bezler’s men, they were treated with kindness and hospitality. In once instance he even fed them red caviar! But the very same Bezler openly admitted that “we take no prisoners from the Nazi death squads” confirming what I have said many times: the Russian kindness and generosity towards Ukrainian POWs only extends to regular army units – captured death squad members are immediately executed.
There are hundred of small moments and exchanges which I wish I could convey to you, but that would take too much space and time. What I will say is that it was quite amazing to see enemies talking to each other in a very friendly manner. I was also amazed at how readily the Ukrainians agreed that the Ukraine must rid herself from the Nazis and the oligarchs. In various occasions people on both sides said “let’s do that together!”. Others were more dubious. Frankly, I am extremely impressed by the courage and decency of many of the Ukrainians in these interviews who, while standing their ground on the issue of the territorial integrity of the Ukraine, quite openly said how much they hated the Nazis and the oligarchs. I sure hope that God will protect these men for their courage.
Both Bezler and Mozgovoi looked very, very good. The latter especially surprised me by explicitly stating that his goal was regime change in Kiev and not just the separation of Novorussia which he clearly sees as a only temporary solution and as a necessary self-defense measure. Clearly, both Bezler and Mozgovoi are first and foremost anti-Nazis and both of them see that there is not “Novorussian solution”. Mozgovoi explicitly stated that he think that both sides could live together if the Ukrainians got rid of their Nazis and oligarchs.
While I have always said that the only possible stable solution of the crisis is a de-nazification of the Ukraine and a conversion of the current Banderastan into a “mentally sane” Ukraine, I am not naive and I also see that this might take a decade or more. However, seeing how Mozgovoi and his Ukrainian counterparts agreed on the need to de-nazify and de-oligarchise (is that English?) I see that there is hope because the bottom line is this: both sides have much more in common than what separates them!
Again, these were regular Ukrainians, not crazed Nazi death-squad members, I understand that. And the two sides do disagree on fundamental issues. I see that too. But I also see that there is a basis, a minimum in common, to negotiate. This does not have to be a war of extermination.
The Ukraine as we knew her is dead. Now we have Crimea and Novorussia which are gone forever, and a rump-Ukraine I call “Banderastan” which is occupied by the US CIA, Ukie Nazis and oligarchs. My hope is that the just as the Ukrainian civil war turned into a war for the self-determination and liberation of Novorussia, so will the war for self-determination and liberation of Novorussia turn into a war for the liberation of Banderastan from its US/Nazi/oligarchic occupiers. If that happens and if a new Ukraine eventually emerges, then I have no doubt that the people of the Ukraine will agree that each region should have the right of self-determination ranging from cultural right to full separation. Only then will we really find out which regions want to stay and which ones want to leave forever.
In the meantime, I am very positively impressed by the Novorussian field commanders. Bezler and Mozgovoi of course, but also Givi, Motorola, Zakharchenko, Kononov and the others are all strong figures capable of both fighting and talking. Strelkov, alas, is still more or less in political no man’s land and I am very concerned about his proximity with the blogger el-Murid who is clearly a “gateway” to the “hurray-patriots” and “Putin bashers” which are being used by the Empire to try to discredit Putin. Still, the political infighting amongst Novorussian leaders continues and there is still no clear leader. Hopefully, the upcoming elections will help to solve this issue.
The Saker
“Mr. Putin was politely questioned by an assortment of Moscow-approved foreign journalists, scholars and former policymakers about Russia’s aggression in Ukraine — and out poured a poisonous mix of lies, conspiracy theories, thinly veiled threats of further aggression and, above all, seething resentment toward the United States.”
– Washington Post.
Wow. What a piece of low-level propaganda. It seems that American imperialists felt real hurt in their butt from what Putin revealed in his historical Valdai speech (transcript) about US-led unipolar world. That confirms that Putin hit the nail. It seems that they are so shocked now that don’t understand how to react yet. He is definitely their №1 foe now. I fear that as Paul Craig Roberts said, US could probably indeed try to assassinate or as I think rather poison him with some sophisticated toxic substance. May God keep Putin safe. I fear about what could happen with Russia and probably with the world if this truly great world leader will pass.
This is good news. Hopefully I will soon be reading about Nazis and CIA stooges swinging from the tallest trees in each town :)
These are auspicious events of the last week. However, the question is what happens if the Ukies are again ordered to attack Novorossiya?
Our logic and their logic is clear. All sides (except the oligarchs, CIA and nazis) agree that the junta and the war must end and Kiev must be cleaned out.
So, why have not the Ukies joined to clear out Kiev?
They will have a big enough combined force to do the job.
Putin would love to supply the effort and be done with the Ukie-CIA threat.
Those Ukie commanders have to take the historic opportunity and join with the militia leaders.
Ultimately, the Ukie commanders will die if they don’t join the militia in the crusade against the fascist and the corrupt government. The nazis or the CIA or the militia will kill them. It’s just a matter of time.
I could understand hardly a word but the second two videos impressed me from the body language and tone of voice being used by all the participants.
They were being level headed and sensible – and sometimes emotional – which is hardly a surprise.
My takeaway was that, no matter what these people were talking about, they were not in serious disagreement about much of what was under discussion. These were not implacable foes but rational people with differences that can be bridged.
I hope that this content is seen in both Russia and Ukraine and that this is seen as a warning to the occupiers of Ukraine from the west.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/10/25/vladimir-putin-leader-moral-world-paul-craig-roberts/
Anonymous said…
What was the motivation for this particular extrapolated speculation?
What was the purpose of this particular extrapolated speculation?
26 October, 2014 22:52
WizOz said…
@What was the purpose of this particular extrapolated speculation?
Putin does not shake in his boots for fear of Pussy Riot as you seem to believe
27 October, 2014 00:49
Anonymous said…@ 28 October, 2014 03:20
You appear to have received a reflex response finishing with “From Germany, eh?”
Your comments are apparently viewed through a lens of presumption, also called prejudice.
The response you received illustrates the practice which gave rise to your initial comment.
You are correct that transcendence requires intellectual rigour, but perhaps others do not share this purpose or this rigour.
Perhaps you could apply the same intellectual rigour to progressively test the components and totality of your hypothesis that this blog “is the best independent source on Eastern Ukraine/Novorossiya”
28 October, 2014 10:48
Over extrapolation gives opportunities to opponents as well as friends.
Finally!—Some little bit of progress toward ending this whole
“dumbest war of the 21st century thus far” as I would say.
But recently, on reading how Putin & Co dealt with the rebellion in Chechnya [the so-called 2nd Chechen War] and what cluster bomb and other terrible anti-population weapons the Russians were using on the city of Grozny so that this city was truly left destroyed, in rubble,—how then can the Russians start throwing stones at the so-called Kyivan “junta” which has clearly NOT been seeking to destroy Donetsk and Luhansk the way the Russian forces destroyed Grozny? If the Ukrainians need to be “denazified” meaning to get rid of extreme warlike tribalism, then the Russians also need to be “destalinized” meaning to get rid of a tradition going back to the woeful days of Ivan the Terrible, of governments in Moscow being just plain extremely bloodthirsty and crazy with a paranoid-fantasy component. Then Ukraine and Russia might return to being good neighbors with mutual respect. After all it is the ancestors of the Ukrainians who were substantially the creators and founders of that “Russian world” spoken of, back in the 900’s to 1200’s before Moscow even existed [as Moscow was established in the 1270’s, long after Kyiv, Chernihiv, Novgorod, Tver, etc., just being actually the newest of the power centres]. I doubt that any serious Ukrainian leader is even seeking much less capable of destroying Russia or Orthodoxy, so the mention about such extremes is pure rubbish and paranoid propaganda by whoever wants to keep this warfare going.
Interesting happenings in Novorussia: Thanks Saker for your commentary. I watch everything translated even if it takes me a few days to catch up so my thanks to the translation teams, too! The media here does not present the human aspect of the conflict other than reporting a few atrocity stories. And the Ukraine/Odessa is key to the planet’s future. Some conflicts are not but some are and this is of crucial importance to everyone even though my friends do not want to hear about it. Those of us who know,,,just do what can be done. At least Brazil is secure–where is the report from Latin America?
A surprise – a fair article on more cooperation between NAF and Ukies in yahoo news.
Even better are the 8 comments added by readers of Yahoo news.
People seem to be learning to dismiss the MSM narrative, ie the propaganda isn’t working anymore.
http://news.yahoo.com/rebels-let-besieged-ukraine-troops-retreat-checkpoint-204621606.html?soc_src=mediacontentsharebuttons
PEAK EMPIRE–all downhill!
he says detonation is anytime now to next 20 years.
he’s got some neat charts of this
BTW, that year 1991 mentioned & shown in chart of acres bases/mil spending was the year Mt Pinatubo blew off(it also blew in SEP/92)& covered Clarke Airbase & Subic Bay with several feet of highly abrasive ash, rendering them useless.
supposedly they were returned to the Philippines.
http://cluborlov.blogspot.ca/2014/10/peak-empire-take-two_96.html
But a moment may arrive well before empire is all gone when the suspension of disbelief that is required to keep US government finances from cratering ceases to be achievable—regardless of the level of propaganda, market distortion, or US officials smiling, waving and lying in front of television cameras. Thus, we have two estimates. The first estimate is objective and based on US government’s own data: two decades or less. But we also have room for an estimate that is subjective yet bracketed: anywhere between later today and two decades (or less) from now.
Larchmonter445 said…@ 29 October, 2014 16:11
“
So, why have not the Ukies joined to clear out Kiev?”
If memory serves you almost joined a “native American” group, and although having a modicum of shooting expertise your eyesight is failing and so you can’t go to NovoRossiya.
Perhaps you can aspire to becoming a quiet American?
word leaking out days after about what really went on in ottawa/hill last week in that 2nd of 2 incidents–several sites now reporting this.
expand the pictures below the text
“I’m a legislative assistant, Here is the view outside my office at 9:30 AM, (about 15 minutes before the ‘crazed’ gunman). Just a shit ton of cops hanging out by west block for no reason.”
“I know two things they aren’t telling the press/public. Hopefully, you dipshits will take this seriously because my career is on the line.”
“If you see/hear that a legislative assistant died, had an accident, committed suicide whatever I’d like to say for the record that I’ve never wanted to kill myself. I take my job serious, but I ask honest questions.”
http://2012thebigpicture.wordpress.com/2014/10/25/anonymous-photos-taken-15-minutes-prior-to-ottawa-shooting/
@Anonymous 29 October 15:29
While WP accuses others of doing what the WP does so well – i.e. spew venom, Italy’s il Giornale daily (part of Berlusconi’s media empire) publishes a large portion of Vlad’s Valdai speech, forewording it by saying it’s a speech by “a true head of State”. I imagine it’s the only western newspaper that has reported sympathetically on the Valdai speech, (which btw, and for what it’s worth,m Gorbachev reportedly said was Putin’s best yet).
http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politica/1063116.html
Actually, one of the field commanders, was the head of a brigade which fought in a cauldron. So he is perfectly aware that they were used as cannon fodder. These exchanges are perhaps the
Most important events of the whole conflict, unravelling in a way which the AZs could not anticipate. Certainly, they will not play again by the rules of the AZs, and will turn their arms pointing nowback to Kiev.poro will not survive if he heads a second attack, and the nazis will fall with him.
Actually, one of the field commanders, was the head of a brigade which fought in a cauldron. So he is perfectly aware that they were used as cannon fodder. These exchanges are perhaps the
Most important events of the whole conflict, unravelling in a way which the AZs could not anticipate. Certainly, they will not play again by the rules of the AZs, and will turn their arms pointing nowback to Kiev.poro will not survive if he heads a second attack, and the nazis will fall with him.
@Anonymous 29 October, 2014 16:27
Why jump back to the past to make a point which is not holding water and does not make sense?
Anyways. Nice to see both sides talking. This may seem special to us(westerners) but to easterners talking to the enemy in war is just normal practice.
I do hope they find common ground in how to rid themselves from their common enemy. In my opinion the first obstacle are th nazi’s and nazi sympathizers who hold hostage family and friends of the ukie soldiers. Get rid of them and the rest will be easy.
Seeing as Saker is too humble to ask, I will ask the community:
Please, Saker community, please, please translate what you can for your non-Russian readers. I need to watch this :)
– Charles Mondeley
Too optimistic there will be de-nazification de-oligarchcracy! Realty is 75 years on, certain ideology and prejudices are innate – difficult to unload when these guys are being paid to do death squads. Yatz, Porky and Kolomoiski, backed by VickiNu and a 3 letter agency, will not relinquish power until objective is achieved.
Novorussians best steel themselves – pressure to abandon their mission has been unleashed.
Today, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon called for cancellation of planned elections in southeastern Ukraine. — Citing another lie, elections undermine Minsk Protocol.
And the EU regrets Russia statement of its intention to recognize elections in Donbas
This is reminiscent of the 1914 Christmas Day “Truce” when, to the outrage of the upper ranks, British front-line troops joined German troops in singing Christmas carols, followed by open fraternization and a soccer match in no-man’s land.
Time now, one fears, for further CIA-inspired atrocities in Ukraine to revive fracticidal hatreds.
Saker:
I am interested in your take on this:
Russia Is Trying To End Sanctions And Save Face
VASILY KOLTASHOV AND BORIS KAGARLITSKY
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/roger-annis/2014/10/rabkor-editorial-economic-sanctions-have-russia-seeking-compromis
Farflungstar
Zio Occupied AmeriKa
Lendman on the uke ‘election’:
A previous article discussed whole families contesting for seats. Future deputies were known in advance. They’re relatives of currently serving politicians.
Including oligarch president Petro Poroshenko’s son, Oleksiy. Running for the same Vinnitsa region’s seat his father held previously. Assured of winning before voting began.
According to Itar Tass: ” . . . Ukraine’s political class is built on the foundation of nepotism and cronyism, as all the political forces display the tradition of nominating candidates on the grounds of kinship.”
A closely controlled family affair with no legitimacy. Powerful interests control things Ordinary people have no say.
http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/14279
Horrifying video of Ukie fascists humiliating a NAF sympathizer.
It begins at the 20 second mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bABnxQ9F5D8
Strelkov to hold a press conference tomorrow:
Сводки от ополчения Новороссии
today at 4:46 am
29.10.14. Сообщение от блогера “Эль-Мюрида”.
“Если опять ничего не стрясется, то завтра, 30 октября в 15:00 мск должна начаться прямая трансляция с пресс-конференции Стрелкова.”
“Bezler and Mozgovoi of course, but also Givi, Motorola, Zakharchenko, Kononov and the others are all strong figures capable of both fighting and talking. Strelkov”
Mozgovoi, Motorola, Zak and Sterlkov are amazing and honest men. I do not know the others as well. They have said repeatedly that they do not want to fight or kill their Ukrainian brothers especially the conscripts, who are being lied to. The evil is in Kiev with the dual citizen oligarchs and their TV stations bakced by ZATO.
Zakharchenko should be the president of the Ukraine but I am sure he would not want the job.
The Ukrainian military has been filmed moving S-300 air defense missiles near Odessa. There are no associated radar units. What is going on? The NAF has no air-force so they are clearly not the target. Are they moving them to prevent the Russian air force attacking Odessa? Or defending Transnistria?
Here is the link to the interview with Alexei Mozgovoi where he speaks about the various units and also about this internet conference which he was part of.
http://youtu.be/yBExdX_fcK0
It is from 23 October with English subtitles.
Real integrity in this man, who is clearly shouldering very heavy burdens.
This is excellent news. I would love to see the videos with translations.
Meanwile in Moscow,there is a proposal before Putin to require, amongst other things, EU countries to prepay 100% for their gas. German business people seem to want an end to sanctions.
In the 2nd video-conference of Mozgovoi, beautiful song with guitar, and reactions at about 1;02:50
and another at 1:45:30 – which was perhaps more controversial.
It seemed to me in his interview video, Bez was reciting a poem at 59:05 His “Yes,” followed by the poem at 59:45 (if only because he there reminds me of myself reciting a French fable I was forced to burn into memory in about the 8th grade some 50 years ago–almost the sum total of my French now.)
Anyway, I hope these efforts to communicate bear good fruit. I had only read a brief bit somewhere defending the effort before this most interesting report.
Thank you, Saker!
Not confirmed, but this is what people are talking:
ПЕРЕПОЛОХ В МВД
По проверенной информации от розыскников с Богомольца 10 – в МВД реальный переполох. Поступила оперативная информация о том, что некие территориальные батальоны планируют объединение и ведут переговоры с силами, так называемых ДНР-ЛНР, для совместного “вооруженного похода на Киев”.
Представители боевых батальонов считают, что власть захватили олигархи, которые грабят народ и страну, прикрываясь проведением АТО, создав вооруженное противостояние внутри страны.
Министр понятно в ярости, подчиненные в панике. Подняли на ноги всю разведку, со всеми возможностями. Оперативные отряды двинулись выявлять и обезглавливать “протестное движение”. Настроение самое серьезное, вплоть до ликвидации. Непонятно только, кто исполнять будет…
Так что практика Авакова, как с Музычко – может продолжиться.
Теперь у Арсена Авакова и у его заместителя Сергея Ярового появилась новая тема для беспокойства, переговоров и совещаний, как сегодня.
P.S. Надо отметить, что в МВД вместе с паникой есть и настроения “ну наконец то…”
Panic in the Ministry of Internal Affairs According to reliable information from Bogomoletz 10 – Ministry of Internal Affairs is in panic mode. Received operational information that some battalions planning to unite with DNR/LNR forces and have an “armed march on Kiev.” Battalion representatives believe that the government is seized by oligarchs, who robs people and the country under the guise of conducting ATO, creating an armed confrontation in the country. The Minister clearly furious, everyone is in a panic. Secret service working in full gear. Operational units send to identify and decapitate “the protest movement.” The mood is very serious (liquidate if have to). It is not clear who will perform … So practice Avakova same as with Muzychko – may continue. Now Arsen Avakov and his deputy Sergei Jarovogo have a new concern, and reason for negotiations and meetings, as it is today. P.S. It should be noted that alon with the panic there is a mood “Well, finally …”
Hello everyone,
Here’s Strelkov’s latest interview:
Must view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A_fxiuJLn4
“War is awaiting Russia”.
Tasmania sports club proposes judo fight between Putin, Australian PM Abbot
The senator said that if a fight was held, the club would stake on Putin, a judo black belt.
She said she admires Putin’s work as he is serving the interests of Russian people.
On October 13, Abbott vowed to “shirtfront” Putin over the MH17 crash in Ukraine if the Russian president arrives at the G20 Leader’s summit in Brisbane scheduled for November 15-16.
http://en.itar-tass.com/sports/757096
Nothing important happened. The Ukrainians are totally unrepentant. Not even once do they seem to agree or understand that it is Ukraine that is the aggressor. Novorussia has two options 1. fight and survive or 2. give up and die.
All these foolish discussions can only weaken the resolve of the opressed to fight back.
Quite a dramatic clip of rocket attack outside a press conference in Donetsk. No injuries but a lot of shaken people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROgNuigJi7o
There can be NO negotiation with the nazi-fascists, absolutely none. Likewise if they are caught on the battlefield…no hesitation. And any mercenaries in Eastern Ukraine know that they should not be there, so…
Any who have deliberately targetted residential areas with disregard to the civilians there with imprecise GRADS etc get NO mercy either.
The conscripts and regular – decent army – soldiers should be treated ito of the Geneva convention. Many don’t want to fight, and to show them mercy is right.
Whoever took the initiative, these are profoundly important attempts to break down the barriers that the forces behind the ATO construct and aim to perpetuate. A certain courage has to have been taken by all the participants, journalists and military men, and plaudits are owed to them all. Even if they don’t lead to immediate weakening of us-and-them mentalities, they help to sow seeds of doubt about the certainties people are presented with through state propaganda.
>>> CanSpeccy “…This is reminiscent of the 1914 Christmas Day “Truce” when, to the outrage of the upper ranks, British front-line troops joined German troops in singing Christmas carols, followed by open fraternization and a soccer match in no-man’s land…”
It wasn’t only a British-German thing, of course, for similar inter-enemy fraternising took place between all the adversaries. Mozgovoi in these very videos, in fact, reminds his interlocutors of Russian-German get-togethers for song and vodka, in the pauses during their trench battles in 1914-17.
This El-Murid guy… Is he a Jew? He looks very suspicous to me, like you couldn’t trust him. Nothing against Jews in General, but still it remains a fact that the 90’2 sellout of Russia was pretty much close to 100% Jewish Oligarchs funded by Jewish Western Banks.
The essay “Putin’s Head”, by Vasily Koltashov and Boris Kagarlitsky, is easily one of the most depressing texts I’ve read in a long time. It foresees a grim future in which not just Novorossiya, but also Russia itself, is sold out by a cadre of “Yeltsins”.
I’d love to dismiss the essay as a whole lot of alarmist, sensationalist nonsense, but it seems too well researched and too well composed to be dismissed as such. It even delves into the economic vulnerabilities that have forced Putin’s hand in his approach to sanctions, Kiev and Novorossiya.
Read it here on ICH:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40090.htm.
Strelkov’s proximity to El Murid is explained quite simply – they are old acquaintances and Strelkov used to share El Murid’s views. Recently Strelkov has publicly changed his position on Putin, but some still suspect he is not being sincere and doing it because he cannot afford to antagonise Putin. Strelkov likely still agrees with El Murid on many issues, if not on the question of Putin. But I agree that this association is not very fortunate, because Strelkov’s proximity to El Murid repels Putin’s supporters, and his public support of Putin does not go down well with El Murid’s target audience. This leaves Strelkov stuck in a kind of no man’s land.
Another investigation like MH-17 that will go absolutely nowhere?
The Russian Investigative Committee launches a criminal investigation into the attempted murder of Russian nationals during the massacre in a Odessa Trade Union building in Ukraine in May 2014.
http://nsnbc.me/2014/10/29/russia-opens-criminal-probe-into-odessa-massacre-on-may-2-2014/
I wonder how much of the slack in the Ukie army will be taken up by the Polish one in any forthcoming fighting.
As an aside, I don’t understand, after the crusades, conquistadors, the inquisition, witch burnings, support for fascism, treatment of colonized peoples, pederasty scandals etc etc etc etc, how can anyone be Catholic?
looks like some had this ottawa incident last week deciphered a day after it happened, it was so badly done.
far more amateurish & hokier than sandy hoax.
http://nodisinfo.com/hard-proof-staging-use-fake-blood-canadian-shooting-hoax/
Off topic, but also interesting news…….
Rabbi Marvin Hier Calls on President Obama – “Name, Apologize for and Repudiate” Anonymous Official
October 29, 2014
Dear Friends,
Please read about the worldwide activities of the Simon Wiesenthal Center below and forward to your friends and family.
Thank you
Top Jewish Leader Hier Urges Obama to ‘Name, Apologize for and Repudiate’ Anonymous Official Who Called Israeli PM Netanyahu ‘Chickenshit’
Rabbi Marvin Hier, the founder and Dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, has called on President Barack Obama to “name, apologize for, and repudiate” the anonymous official who was quoted, in an Atlantic Magazine article by Jeffrey Goldberg, describing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as a “chickenshit.” Continue reading>>
Cursing Israel’s prime minister
Rabbi Marvin Hier of the Simon Wiesenthal Center told Right Turn: “We are talking about one of America’s great friends. Who can we trust in the Middle East long-term but the democratic, dynamic and free state of Israel? Yet someone hiding behind a desk is taking pot shots at Israel’s prime minister.” Comparing the language used toward Iran, he says, “Who do we manage to curse? Our friend. And who do we laud that we should be cursing?” Read full article>>
White House tries to ease flare-up over Netanyahu insults
In the wake of the article, Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center… said, “It is rather ironic that a senior American official is prepared to curse his friends, yet when it comes to the mortal enemies of the United States — as the Iranians discovered during the recent nuclear negotiation — praise is heaped on them,” Hier said. Read full article>>
SEE RELATED OP-ED
Netanyahu is a ‘chickensh*t’? Here’s what’s next for America and Israel
By Rabbi Abraham Cooper, FOX News
Canada shooting part1:
Canada: Decoding Harper’s Terror Game. Beneath the Masks and Diversions
By Prof. John McMurtry
Global Research, October 28, 2014
Url of this article:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/decoding-harpers-terror-game-beneath-the-masks-and-diversions/5410373
Stephen Harper is the most deeply reviled Prime Minister in Canada’s history. On the world stage, he is the servant of Big Oil boiling oil out of tar-sands to destroy major river systems and pollute the planet with dirty oil, while his attack dog John Baird leads the warmongering and bullying of nations like Iran and Syria, targeted by the US-Israeli axis.
He is the most despotic and toxic first minister in the life of our country.
His administration defunds every social program and life protective system it can.
It strips the country of its public information infrastructures at every level – including now the gagging of non-profit NGO’s by eliminating their charitable status if they question any policy of his regime.
Just as his friend George Bush Jr., Harper holds government by big-money backing, continual lies, attack ads, and life-blind policies to enrich the already rich. Canada’s neo-con political class may have its head on backwards, but Harper is very cunning in skirting, subverting and perverting the law to abuse power at every level. He is the poster boy of the global corporate agenda of wrecking society and its common life support systems.
Harper also owes his political life to the RCMP. After a after non-confidence vote triggered the 2006 election, RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli instructed his staff to include former Liberal finance minister Ralph Goodale’s name in a news release announcing a criminal investigation. This reversed the stench of the Harper regime’s continuous scandals and corruption onto the Liberals by a false RCMP smear. As a former top insider of the Tory party advised me, “the RCMP won the election for Harper”. The re-elected Harper regime then surrounded the RCMP with blocks to silence all facts – the signature operation – so the truly deepest scandal of the era proceeded with impunity to the present day. So it is not surprising that CSIS, the RCMP and Harper are collaborating to get more secret powers for the police and spooks in return for serving Harper’s underlying agenda
Canada shooting part2:
How “Acts of Terrorism” Fit the Known M.O.
Harper certainly needs an accepted domestic enemy to save him from the rising revulsion of the thinking public against his rule. His regime’s record of destroying the life substance of Canada piece by piece cannot be denied. One already knew what was coming when Harper immediately called the crazed run-over of soldiers in Quebec on October 20 “a terrorist act” about which he was “deeply worried”. In fact, it was the act of a criminally insane loner run amok in a small Quebec town without any evident objective as required under the law’s definition of terrorism. But with the foreknowledge of his addled Islam by the RCMP and CSIS, he seems to have been an ideal patsy for Harper’s home “terrorism” claim. He had already been arrested and his passport cancelled in June. We can imagine how an effective undercover agent might have whipped him into a Jihad frenzy knowing he would soon be full of holes and unable to report what happened.
One can more clearly see such a scenario in the case of the clinically insane, drug-addicted petty criminal living in a homeless shelter in Ottawa who had warned a judge in front of the police back in 2011: “If you can’t keep me in, I’m going to do something”. Who could have been a better tool for the events to come? On October 22 after the first “As a “radicalized terrorist” attack, a double-barrelled shotgun impossible to hide, that no-one saw, before ended up in the hands of Micheal Zebaf-Bibeau. The rest is history. He went on a killing spree with no known blood testing afterwards for the drugs he was evidently driven by in the video record of his frenzied and super-charged behaviour, just as there was no known test of the body of crazed drive-over killer, Martin Couture-Rouleau. How extraordinary. How unspoken in the lavish profusion of other details and official false connection to ISIS.
“Terrorist” stops the mind, and “jihadist” locks it in. Harper’s first invocation of the mind-stopper was, as always, strategic. Although blood tests for a substance-abuse driving offense are automatic, none was reported although the videos show every sign of chemical possession. Bibeau too went crazy and was dead with countless bullets through him before any questions could be asked. All such strange coincidences are part of the now familiar covert-state MO.
Canada shooting part 3:
Joining the Dots
Since Harper publicly claimed an “act of terrorism” two days before the sensational Ottawa murder and crashing of Parliament and as soon as the Quebec killing occurred, questions arise. The normally zipper-lip Harper did so, long before any forensic facts were in, and before the idea even occurred to anyone else. Why? Revealingly the federal security state had been running war games exercises depicting just such attacks weeks before the crazed murders (Canadian Authorities Ran War Game Drills Depicting ISIS Attack Scenarios Brandon Martinez, Global Research, October 24, 2014). Lone-wolf nut cases, killings out of nowhere, unknown motivators and arming, and the state leader most profiting from mutation of the demented murders into “terrorist acts” before anyone else – – who joins the dots? It is taboo to think through such situations, and this too is known beforehand. Sure enough within the day, the RCMP and CSIS get the new extraordinary powers they sought, and for the first time in office the robotic Harper is behaving with a warmth not even extended to his young son with whom he shakes hands in farewell. He is hugging opposition leaders in Parliament to show a new human side to complete the image makeover in motion.
Harper is happy because he thinks his next election is saved. But the first forensic question in acts of murderous crimes is again never asked. The hypnotic trance of “terrorism” in sedate Ottawa holds the narrative unchallenged. Cui bono? Who benefits from these unbelievable closed-case murders in two days which have the media headlining “terrorism” and “anti-terrorist legislation” everywhere Canadians look, and Harper now as the strong hand in charge. The top banner headline of the weekend Globe screamed “How far should we go?”
Canada shooting part 4:
Home-Grown Terror for Harper’s Re-Election
The first function of the terrorist claim is the standard one – diversion from the ailing economy and the majority’s growing revulsion of the leader and his party. Harper has made enemies of every thinking Canadian in the country by his stripping of the country’s public life and knowledge bases, and reversing the country’s global reputation as an agent of peace, social conscience and reverence for nature. Diversion to a constructed Enemy is the oldest strategy in the book of despised heads of state, and Harper is in unprecedented need for distraction to another target to uplift him at the same time. Bush Jr. ran on this formula for eight years.
If the stratagem is not seen through, the second big boost to Harper will be to justify the despotic rule and quasi-police state he has built with ever more prisons amidst declining crime,
ever more ant-terrorist rhetoric and legislation,
ever more cuts to life support systems and protections (the very ones which would have prevented these murderous rampages),
and ever more war-mongering and war-criminal behaviours abroad.
The evil regime of despotic control and life oppression he has instituted surpasses any ill rule in the nation’s history. As the US prototype of the life-blind right wing has taught him, the greatest justification of one’s rule is knee-jerk hatred of a safe Enemy. But in Canada, that does not work over time. So the domestic “acts of terrorism” in Quebec and Ottawa itself provide the needed Enemy within Canada to justify anything with ever new pomp, mandatory agreement of others, and ruling power at centre stage.
Canada shooting part 5:
Diagnosing the Drive to Total Control
The rest follows. The “New Terrorist Laws” in execution were already the feature news headline on Oct 25, allowing for any new surveillance and control of citizens. Keep in mind our already-installed totalitarian airport regime that deprives people of water and hygiene products, dehumanizes all, and undresses millions with no questions allowed any step of the way. It is a synecdoche of the larger total rule advancing with the Harper gang in charge further than ever before. “Nothing can be the same again” cheer the corporate media in choral support.
More favours to the Harper regime from the RCMP and CSIS may be in store – for example, false allegations and naming of even the most honest opponents like Ralph Goodale, who spent “the worst year of my life” recovering from the RCMP smear that kept Harper in power. It is a bit like the War Measures Act – new capacity to lock down any city at any time with armed-force control pervading the streets and police-army powers in the glory of mass-controlling armed command and kill license. It has already happened in Ottawa with a lone crazy, and the lock-down was infinitely more heavy-handed than in 1970 Montreal, which I observed first hand. Keep in mind the trumped-up cause for it – one likely-drugged and managed murderous homeless mental case, dead before any questions could be asked.
Observe too how the language changes to fit the agenda of total control. The keys are “terrorists” for lone individuals driven crazy with no more social supports for them, and “radicalization” with no modifier as the ultimate problem of thought behind the terror. What deprived group or oppositional rethinking cannot be so labelled? These psych-ops are already in full motion now. They have been minted into ruling group-mind by the mocked-up “terrorists attacks” at home, and Harper rule can only go further by such trances of normalized stupefaction now reinforced with Canadian blood.
Behind all the public psych-ops is the operation of reverse projection long perfected by the US war-machine. Blame the opposition for what you are doing as the reason for attacking them. At the Canada level, the reverse projections define the Harper regime.
He is punitively and vindictively despotic, rigidly and vengefully doctrinaire, intolerant of deviation, shames and slanders at will, and overrides every democratic constraint to his insatiable drive to total control. Narrow and life-blind absolutism, indifference to others’ suffering, and certitude of virtue while destroying people and common life support systems complete the unseen rule of terror at work. A coterie of mediocre and corrupt subordinates surround and serve him to allow no shard of light in on the ruling mission of society destruction.
With most people not yet suspecting it, Harper rule is an Americanada mirror image of the jihad-fascism he uses to multiply his and his corporate allies’ rights and powers. Behind him lies the transnational money-sequence cancer he embodies in every policy line.
Prof. John McMurtry is the author of The Cancer Stage of Capitalism/ From Crisis to Cure
Copyright © 2014 Global Research
Readers may recall The Saker’s comments on talking with the enemy.
Neither of the sides seems to have done the “political work” necessary for their success, but went directly to war. That means the military of both sides hold the key to a solution and have an opportunity to take the initiative make a revolution together, rather than a civil war.
It seems obvious that Ukrainians population would rather the whole problem vanish, which is impossible. There are at least some odds that a combined military revolution would have public support.
That would be truely awesome. How many of us actually expect anything good to happen anymore anywhere?
Maybe the obscure meaning of Mozgovoi’s video message to Putin on his birthday, is now clear?
Check out this video with a clip from a cartoon claimed to date to 2005.
The song from 2005 is by a Russian singer Glukoza. I can’t work out where and when the cartoon originated, but it has been updated to include guest appearances from porkoshenko, rats, yarosh and huilo tymoshenko.
quote “Today, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon called for cancellation of planned elections in southeastern Ukraine. — Citing another lie, elections undermine Minsk Protocol.”
true to form this moneky moon spears exactly at the time when anglos conspiracy is unravelling.
this mkokey ban msut not only be kicked out of UNo but must be publicly hanged for his war crimes and abettign anglos war crimes.
healsways interferes when anglos side is down and keepsquiet when anglosidfe is waging terror and war crimes.
Stes2011 21:53 re “Putin’s Head”
Saker has already commented on this. I think you can guess what he said!
The Anglo-Zionists are getting desperate. Putin now has pancreatic cancer – allegedly.
It wd be wonderful if they could get rid of the oligarchs, but the results of the IMF loans are foreign oligarchs and ownership. I think even the pipeline infrastructure has been specified as collateral for repayment of the loans. And there are all those contracts for fracking which dispossess any property-owner in the way. I’m afraid Ukraine’s collission w Western culture has left it w knots almost impossible to undo. —–Penelope
“…let the children and their grandchildren see that they were mistaken, let them again make friends with their enemies, and let the land of the Slavs, covered with wheat and rye as with gold, remain undivided from sea to sea forever!”
(from the preface of the Haydamaks insurrection)
Taras Shevchenko 1841
quote “Stes2011 21:53 re “Putin’s Head”
so the enbemis of world donto hide their plan then what is russia doing sitting on her backside?
why does russia not prepare a foirce of 100000 hard battle ready commandos to go behind the enemy lines andint heose enemis countries and get headsz cut of thos enemis like war criminals murdoch and msot of british media and tonyblair, and american media editors -whynot/
if they can openly talk of attackign a democratically elected presidentg of a country then that president has every right to send commandos to take out those enemis living in england, sua or middle east or even in east asia.
ANON MONGOOSE: Thank you for your comment. I quite agree that there is no reason for vast optimism. (my words).
I did not know about Ban ki Moon calling for bypassing Donbass elections as a violation of the Minsk agreement. I’m getting used to the constant lies.
—Penelope
Anonymous said…
quote “Today, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon called for cancellation of planned elections in southeastern Ukraine. — Citing another lie, elections undermine Minsk Protocol.” —– I found it ironic. The Secretary General of the United Nations, who has absolutely no knowledge with regards the history of the United Nations. It was built on self determination, funnily the talks between Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill go back to Yalta, Crimea, 1945 and it was Yalta, Crimea, 2013 where the corporate vultures, including the Blairs and Clintons had another conference, where they cut up and sold off Ukraine, Crimea included.
Finally, I get to write a “compare and contrast” on the wars in Chechnya and Ukraine, the Ukrainians’ favourite topic. Let’s begin:
Part 1
1) Armed people in Chechnya seized government buildings and declared independence in 1991. The first Chechen war did not start until December 1994. Before that there were attempts to resolve the conflict by other means. Calculate the time from the beginning of protests in the Donbass (peaceful ones at first) and to the time Kiev moved its troops in. What other ways of resolving the conflict had been tried first?
2) The things Donbass asked for – federalisation, self-governance, their own language – Chechens had to begin with. Ukrainians decided that an all-out war was preferable to giving even this much to the people of Donetsk and Lugansk.
3) In the period from 1991 to 1994 Chechnya became a source of all kinds of criminal activity (due to the law enforcement structure collapsing after Dudaev’s revolution and never being rebuilt). There were murders, kidnappings from neighbouring territories for ransom, trains robberies, and, most famously, fraudulent bank advice notes that cost Russia over four trillion rubles at the time it could least afford it. What horrible crimes did the people of the Donbass manage to commit in the few weeks before the war began?
4) Even before 1991 (starting in the late 1980s) Chechens began cleansing their republic of all non-Chechens, primarily Russians as they were the majority of “aliens”, but other non-Chechens suffered as well. People were threatened, driven out of their apartments at gun point with a few hours or less to gather their things (some had to flee in their slippers), the less fortunate were actually raped and murdered. Simply looking at the change in the ethnic composition of Chechnya over those years tells you all you need to know. What ethnic cleansings did the people of the Donbass carry out? Which ethnicities were threatened and driven out?
5) As Russia insisted that Chechnya was part of Russia and Chechens its citizens, it quite logically continued the payment of pensions and other social support to the people in Chechnya as long as it was physically possible. Ukraine cut off Slavyansk pensioners (and then others in DPR and LPR) in spite of the fact that Slavyansk residents were actually paying all their taxes to Kiev in full even when Strelkov was there (specifically in order not to deprive people of their pensions).
6) As mentioned before, Chechens had a good number of years to show exactly what kind of a state they were building. However, after Yeltsin finally ordered troops in, the war received very little popular support. Both television and the press where full of stories about the plight of Chechens. What is the public attitude towards the war in Ukraine and what is the position of the mass media?
7) Grozny was destroyed in the first war, not the second one. The reason it was left in ruins was that there was heavy street fighting; it became a kind of Stalingrad. Nothing of the sort happened in Donetsk, Lugansk, or Slavyansk. The Ukrainian army simply surrounded it with artillery and shelled it indiscriminately, killing civilians and achieving no military result whatsoever.
8) It is important to note that the first Chechen war ended badly for Russia. It culminated in the treaty of Hasavyurt, under which Chechnya gained de facto independence. This was in spite of Chechnya being tiny in comparison to the rest of Russia. Ukrainians love pointing the finger at Chechnya but somehow always skip over that particular part.
Part 2
9) Between the two wars Chechnya descended further into chaos. It was ruled by warlord clans who were always in conflict with each other. A person who lived in Grozny at that time describes constant fighting which at one point culminated in a public execution in the central square. Kidnappings, robbery, export of organised crime continued on an even larger scale. The real problem, however, was that after a few years the warlords decided that Chechnya was too small for their appetites. First there was an invasion of the neighbouring Daghestan, where they seized a hospital in a village. Then several building were blown up in Moscow. This finally led to a decision to start a second war. That war, unlike the first, had popular support, because, well, everyone was really sick of the Chechen thugs by that point. The war began in 1999, once again, count the years from the time Chechnya declared independence – this was how long it took for the Russians to finally lose patience. The second war, unlike the mess the first one was, was carried out as an actual counter-terrorism operation rather that an all-out military campaign, and it was far more successful. But even then many leaders were won over with money not weapons. And once Chechnya was pacified, huge amount of financing started pouring in. Chechnya was completely rebuilt, they have wide autonomy, their own language, basically anything they want as long as there is order and peace. Where is all the money Ukraine is planning to invest in the Donbass once the fighting is finished?
10) Another point just to tack onto the end – Chechen fighters were not referred to as “terrorists” except for the people who committed actual terrorist acts.
People more familiar with the subject could probably think of more, but this at least gives you some idea.
Terrorists from chechnia were nurtured, supported and financed by the british with active spy collaboration of british evil lying media.
Dear Saker, this post is the most hopeful story I’ve seen come out of the Ukraine in weeks. I have a feeling it may be worthwhile watching some of the video even if I can’t understand the conversations.
You asked, de-oligarchise (is that English?). I was going to say, “It is now”. The usage makes perfect sense and would be a valid coinage except that another political analyst already used the word.
This from a 2004 commentary by Peter Lavelle:
While the Forbes list is a wonderful PR boon for those in the Kremlin who desire to de-oligarchize the Russian economy, it is important to remember that the Kremlin’s interest in minimizing the stranglehold a very small number of individuals have over the Russian economy has been very nuanced and even eclectic since Putin’s assumption of power in 2000, and never without reason.
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2004/05/17/Commentary-Russias-modest-billionaires/UPI-54551084796608
Brian
I’m happy to see the two commanders (who I admire very much) attempt to talk with the Ukie army.I think they should,if they aren’t already,talk privately with them.The best and easiest answer to this crisis is the joining forces of the NAF and any decent Ukie Army units that will defect.
But in the meantime.We can’t count on that in the short run.The Ukie army will follow orders to attack when given.So the NAF needs to be prepared.
To Anonymous, who dubbed the Ukraine conflict the “dumbest war of the 21st century,” it is important to remember that Putin was not president during the Chechen War. That was Boris Yeltsin who could have been a CIA-operative. In other words, let’s not blame Putin for something he didn’t do.
Polish Mercenaries and Arms Flood into Ukraine as Media Looks the Other Way
Polish military involvement in Ukraine is considerable – why is it being ignored? Read more: Russia Insider
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics_ukraine/2014/10/29/12-03-25pm/polish_mercenaries_and_arms_flood_ukraine_media_looks_other AM
@CanSpeccy made a great comment about how this remarkable meeting of the minds is reminiscent of the Christmas Truce from WWI with combatants from both sides singing Christmas carols together.
But if some of these well-meaning Ukrainian soldiers are still hung up on “territorial integrity” then they are a little out of touch with the tragedy of the Donbass. Ukraine will never go back to the status quo. Things will never be the same again and there’s no going back. Eric Krause is right when he says you can’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
The slaughter of innocent children is a watershed moment. I can’t look at the unforgettable haunting before-and-after images of baby Kira and her young mother (from Gorlovka, who were killed by indiscriminate shelling while they were walking in the park) without thinking of the sad and tragic Coventry Carol, which laments Herod’s ‘slaughter of the innocents’ in the town of Bethlehem, in his futile attempt to preserve his own power and the status quo because he felt threatened by the birth of the Christ child. But while all the other male infants were killed, the Christ child lived to change the world forever.
There is no more heartbreaking image from this useless pointless war than the contrast between the picture of a happy smiling baby Kira and the picture of her lifeless body with her face covered with dirt in the park where she died; the park she loved; the park where her mother was teaching her how to walk.
British composer, Victor Hely-Hutchinson, best captured the bittersweet, sorrowful, and tragic contrast between the brutal deaths of innocents, and the hopeful, joyeous, and glorious birth of our Savior in the ‘Coventry Carol Movement’ of his famous ‘Carol Symphony.’
Nobody knows yet what will become of Ukraine and Novorossiya, but the birth of a nation is often born of tragedy, and anybody who thinks the people of Novorrosiya will forgive the deaths of their children just to preserve some abstract notion of “territorial integrity” must be high.
A clever and morally correct move. The reality is that it is only the Real Evil Atlanticist Empire that wishes to see ‘Ukrainians’ at war with Russians. The aim in the end must be to reverse the evil Yeltsin’s destruction of Russia. The Central Asian and Caucasus states might prefer independence, but ought to live in peace with their neighbour. But the Russian heartland must not remain broken up. In any case the age of contending power blocs and rampant nationalism is over. Facing the crisis of crises of ecological and economic collapse requires global co-operation free of the arrogant bullying of the ‘Exceptionalists’.
Ban Ki-moon, known to South Korean journalists as the ‘slippery eel’, is a US stooge, as are all senior UN functionaries.
Anonymous, McMurtrie is, in my opinion, a genius, although his books are rather too dense with jargon. Once you get the hang of it, however, his insights are tremendous. Harper, as one could confidently expect of a total stooge of the Zionazis, is, in my opinion, a very dangerous, evil imbecile. A sort of Doppelganger of our own psychopathic ruler, Tony Abbott, although I seem to see the features of incipient dementia in Abbott’s recent behaviour. Unfortunately a frankly demented ruler might be the next stage in the descent into The Pit.
And across the ocean in Aotearoa (new Zealand) is John Key of the same ilk as Harper and Abbott, also in the pay of the AZ.
‘Rabbi’ Marvin Hier and Jeffrey Goldberg are, in my opinion, two of the most odious Zionazi stand-over men in the captured US state. There seem to be more and more signs that Jewish control of US politics, MSM, business, particularly finance, and entertainment, may have begun to breed resentment. The sheer arrogance and intolerance of the Zionazis was certain to provoke a reaction at some stage, as so often in history. And it looks like it is here.
Ingrian, it is mostly due to ruthless brainwashing from birth. Take that away, and acquaint people with Roman Catholic dogma at, say, early adult-hood, and see how long it would persist. I imagine that most convinced deists would simply worship their God in their own manner, rather than allow a cult of ‘celibate’ kiddie-fiddlers to dictate their personal morality and spirituality.
The army units will follow whoever they feel will emerge the winners. Say some high commander orders them to stop shooting in the east. They may do so, if it means not getting shot back at etc. They will retreat, as long as they’re confident they won’t be charged with desertion as a result,which has happened to some already.
They will not turn and march on Kiev unless they’re 100% sure of success – because failure means Kiev will gets its revenge. If people disappear for speaking with separatists, what might become of solders who march on the capital and lose?
But if a large group of armed Right Sektor types march on Kiev (as they have threatened to do) then a UAF army group could safely go against them. But not let go, ie liberate Kiev from Red Sektor but then remain in occupation, an occupation that stops the war in Donbass.
Don’t mind me, I’m just writing a movie script here.
Someone needs to freeze all the oligarch assets, including in foreign banks. How does that get done? who is able to do it?
The Ukie leaders want to start war again, it is in the air; the party of war won! France is postponing in a “disgusting” way the Mistral delivery, EU is “surprised” Russia would recognize Donbass election, as if no one had read the Minsk agreement. UN is really made up by idiots paid by US.
Harper in Canada uses the ‘terrorist act” to cut more civil liberties, and in spite of Canadian business asking him to keep his meeting with China, he has not “yet’ decided about it. Every one seems to be waiting for “something” to happen!
One can imagine that a large number of soldiers in many wars have agreed that the war was stupid and would end up weakening both countries involved. Did the Irish immigrants fighting for the North in the US war against the South hate the Southern soldiers who didn’t care about slavery and were more concerned with being bossed around by the North? Did the Southern soldiers hate the Northern soldiers?
At the end of the day, soldiers follow orders. If you want to change the orders, you need to change the leadership. The US and EU did that in Kiev, and now Novorossiya or the Kremlin can make their moves to achieve the same thing.
Olivegreen – thanks for your commentary on Chechnya.
Great stuff !!!
Reply to “Olivegreen” on 10-29-2014:—
Here are selections from the Wikipedia source about the Chechen War and Russian weapons and tactics usages there,—unless someone will claim that the Wikipedia source is mere “Western propaganda” when it comes to Russia, Ukraine and any related topics.
Otherwise note, the so-called “junta” in Kyiv has done nothing close to the destruction and killings perpetrated by the then Putin government in Moscow.
Thus we have:—
The Chechen conflict entered a new phase on 1 October 1999, when Russia’s new Prime Minister Vladimir Putin declared the authority of Chechen President Aslan Maskhadov and his parliament illegitimate.[citation needed]
The Russian army moved with ease in the wide open spaces of northern Chechnya and on 5 October 1999, reached the Terek River. On this day, a bus filled with refugees was reportedly hit by a Russian tank shell, killing at least 11 civilians;[63] two days later, Russian Su-24 fighter bombers dropped cluster bombs on the village of Elistanzhi, killing some 35 people.[64] On 10 October 1999, Maskhadov outlined a peace plan offering a crackdown on renegade warlords;[64] the offer was rejected by the Russian side. He also appealed to NATO to help end fighting between his forces and Russian troops, without effect.[65]
Many thousands of civilians fled the Russian advance, leaving Chechnya for neighbouring Russian republics. Their numbers were later estimated to reach 200,000 to 350,000, out of the approximately 800,000 residents of the Chechen Republic. The Russians appeared to be taking no chances with the Chechen population in its rear areas, setting up “filtration camps” in October in northern Chechnya for detaining suspected members of bandformirovaniya militant formations, literally: “bandit formations”.
On 21 October 1999, a Russian short-range ballistic missile strike on the central Grozny killed more than 140 people, including many women and children, and left hundreds more wounded. A Russian spokesman said the busy market place was targeted because it was used by separatists as an arms bazaar.[68] Eight days later Russian aircraft carried out a rocket attack on a large convoy of refugees heading into Ingushetia, killing at least 25 civilians including Red Cross workers and journalists.[69]
On 17 November 1999, Russian soldiers dislodged separatists in Bamut, the symbolic separatist stronghold in the first war; dozens of Chechen fighters and many civilians were reported killed, and the village was levelled in the FAE [fuel air explosive] bombing.
Meanwhile, the assault on Grozny started in early December. The battle accompanied by the struggle for the neighbouring settlements ended when the Russian army seized the city on 2 February 2000.
The siege and fighting left the capital devastated like no other European city since World War II; in 2003 the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on Earth.[75]
On 9 February 2000 a Russian tactical missile hit a crowd of people who had come to the local administration building in Shali, a town previously declared as one of the “safe areas”, to collect their pensions. The attack was a response to a report that a group of fighters had entered the town. The missile is estimated to have killed some 150 civilians, and was followed by an attack by combat helicopters causing further casualties.[78] Human Rights Watch has called on the Russian military to stop using FAE, known in Russia as “vacuum bombs”, in Chechnya, concerned about the large number of civilian casualties caused by what it calls “the widespread and often indiscriminate bombing and shelling by Russian forces”.[79] On 18 February 2000, a Russian army transport helicopter was shot down in the south, killing 15 men aboard, Russian Interior Minister Vladimir Rushailo said in a rare admission by Moscow of losses in the war.[80]
I never got around to posting a video by a Ukrainian commentator and political activist with English subtitles. This is Margarita Montyan. “Dalpe” posted this link in a thread here before the elections, saying that she is sharp as a whip, and that’s for sure. She also ran in the elections.
There are two videos on this page, the top one I found fascinating for its inside view of the oligarchs, the Kiev scene and the overall political power structure. It’s a 15 minute interview. I could use a lot more of her. She is very smart.
Margarita Montyan – The Oligarchs should have killed Yanukovich, and they destroyed Ukraine
What’s key is her view that the utterly criminal oligarchs took the directives and resources from the West as a way to send their nation’s most idealistic young men to die in war – because who needs honest people around? – and to steal all the money that was earmarked for the ATO. It never has been about anything else, from the local oligarch point of view.
When you’re honest yourself, you don’t much think about such simple motivations as a cause for action. But this very closely matches what comments here have alluded to in these discussions between NAF and Ukraine commanders.
I hope others can make more of this. And thank you Dalpe for the original link – I was too short of time to say it earlier.
Follow up to the Montyan videos I linked to earlier – I found the original comment from Dalpe: 26 October, 2014 01:15
Dalpe said then she was actually part of the teleconference Mozgovoi was having with the Ukraine commanders. I guess I’ll have to watch them to see if she appears anywhere. If what she talks about in her videos that I linked to earlier is actually resonant with what many smart people and professional soldiers think – and she talked also about leading troops deliberately into the cauldrons – it would reveal a large potential force for change. If she lives, she could herself be some kind of political leader perhaps.
Saker, I always hate to ask you things because you’re so busy, but I would truly appreciate your views on Margarita Montyan and her two video interviews if possible. It might illuminate some things perhaps. They were translated by Anti-Maidan by the way. Also anyone else here of course if you can shed clarity anywhere on all this. I’m out of my depth on internal Ukraine society. The videos are hugely entertaining by the way, she is a forceful speaker and pulls no punches. Actually here’s the link to her videos again:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fc9_1413680500
The concept of NAF providing the cleansing force, and the regular Ukraine army stepping aside to let it happen, as Mozgovoi has suggested, may actually be a possibility. Ukraine is obviously a thoroughly corrupted country that simply hasn’t stood a chance for honest governance since USSR. NAF could give it a chance. Exciting thought.