by Stephen Karganovic
A process of revision of Serbia’s Criminal Code has been going on for quite a while. It recently emerged that a government Task Force was set up for the purpose. Nothing is publicly known about the composition of this committee or its brief.
One of the Task Force’s goals (or directives) apparently is to introduce a change in the Criminal Code that would make Srebrenica “genocide denial” a crime in Serbia. Accordingly, the existing article 387 of the Criminal Code was revised and supplemented with a new clause (5) that would make such denial prosecutable with a maximum punishment of five years in prison.
The proposed draft of article 387 (5), which will be up for a vote in Parliament sometime this week, reads:
“Whoever publicly approves, denies, or significantly diminishes the gravity of genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes committed against groups of persons or individual members of a group based on their race, skin color, religion, origin, or state, national, or ethnic affiliation, in a manner that could lead to violence or incitement to hate toward such a group or group-member, if such criminal acts have been adjudicated in a final judgment of a court in Serbia or the International Criminal Court, will be subject to imprisonment for a term from six months to five years.”
Information about the proposed revision of the Criminal Code became known to a limited segment of the Serbian public only on Wednesday of last week, when the text was circulated on the internet. The mass media had not reported a single word about this significant legal development up to that point.
On Wednesday, we called Miloš Jovanović, a professor of law and also vice-president of the Serbian Democratic Party, a small parliamentary group with three deputies in Parliament, to ask him what his party was planning to do about this. His response was that he had no idea of what we were talking about and had not even heard that such a thing was afoot at all. Once we informed him and sent him the text of the proposed new legislation, he called a press conference to express his party’s vehement opposition to this project.
The following day, something resembling a debate took place in parliament, with various parties taking positions in favor and against the “genocide denial” law. The ruling Serbian Progressive Party, which has a majority in parliament, was studiously silent, leaving advocacy for this obnoxious law to its junior coalition members.
However, probably taken aback by the ensuing uproar, the minister of justice, Nela Kuburović, finally made a public statement on this issue. She said that adoption of a “genocide denial law” was Serbia’s “European obligation.” She did not cite a specific source for her claim.
With a bit of internet research, however, we established the convoluted origin of this attempt to criminalize an important aspect of free speech in Serbia. It is the “Framework Decision on Racism and Xenophobia,” adopted by the Council of Europe on 28 November 2008 (see full text and further references in footnote).[1] It deals with genocide denial only in passing, mainly focusing instead on the topics indicated in its title. But more importantly, it clearly states that whatever the directive requires is applicable only to EU member-countries, which Serbia is not. Therefore, minister Kuburović’s assertion that the new law is a “European obligation” was patently false.
Additionally, the Framework Decision contains wording with reference to genocide denial which the Serbian Task Force obviously transcribed practically without revision or adaptation, i.e. simply translated and incorporated it as such into “their” proposed draft. A more striking example of slavishness is difficult to imagine.
According to the 2015 Council of Europe compliance report, of 28 EU member countries, thirteen did not follow the directive in the Framework Decision of 2008 and as of last year did not introduce the required legislation. No punishment for such countries was indicated or envisaged. That makes Serbia’s rush to comply with a non-binding directive all the more bizarre. Just as incomprehensibly, while as the draft currently stands it will be permissible in Serbia to deny the well-established account of the persecution of the Jewish people during World War II, critical questioning of the controversial Srebrenica “genocide narrative” would be subject to imprisonment for up to five years.
Also pertinent is a 2015 judgment of the European Court of Human Rights which held that a Turkish public figure could not be prosecuted in Switzerland for denying the Armenian genocide because the right to articulate such a position was a legitimate exercise in free speech.[2] That raises the question of whether the Serbian regime’s legal advisors are aware that their proposed genocide denial law may be subject to nullification once it is brought on appeal before the European court?
There is also a distinct possibility that the proposed Serbian law is not only contrary to the provisions of the European Convention of Human Rights, but is unconstitutional in Serbia as well. Articles 18 and 43 of the Serbian Constitution guarantee freedoms of conscience and public expression.
If you have concerns about this repressive legislation, please address them to the following institutions:
- Parliament of Serbia Department of Public Relations:
- Serbia’s Human Right Ombudsman:
Thank you for supporting the rule of law in Serbia.
“Srebrenica” was a provocation planned by Washington and Sarajevo. Like the other false flag massacres staged by the NATO-backed Islamic terrorists under the command of Izetbegovic before, it was a PSYOP to justify NATO bombing raids and sanctions against the Serb people.
“Srebrenica Planned in Washington and Sarajevo”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1a-_LzxDyE
“Canadian (UN) soldier testimonies from book : The Sharp End” by James D. Davis
…
Bosnians murdered their own people in well-staged attacks for PR reasons”
http://www.balkanpeace.org/index.php?index=/content/testimonies/wctu/wctu02.incl
“Self-Inflicted Atrocities”
http://web.archive.org/web/20040812211736/http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1997/iran.htm
“Labeling the Serbs as Nazis
The Role of Ruder Finn, a US-Public Relation Firm”
http://www.shofar.de/labeling-e.html
Serbia could learn a thing or two from Russia about outside (and unfriendly) control of their law making.
Russia’s Withdrawal From ICC to Support Country’s Sovereignty – Snowden’s Lawyer
https://sputniknews.com/russia/201611211047680635-russia-icc-snowden-lawyer/
“Russia’s decision to leave the International Criminal Court (ICC) was made in the national interests of the country, Anatoly Kucherena, best known as US whistleblower Edward Snowden’s lawyer, said Monday.
“I saw the practices of the Criminal Court, it is neither here nor there… [The Russian president] probably made the right decision that benefits the sovereignty of our country,” Kucherena said giving a lecture at an university in Moscow.
On November 16, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed an order on Russia’s refusal to take part in the Rome Statute of the ICC. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the decision had been motivated by the national interests, while Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said later that the ICC had lost its objectivity.”
Here are two videos about what happened in Srebrenica. From them you can see that things were not black and white and that truth can not be burried. But will we learn from past or will we just repeat the same mistakes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aAu1Su5Uq8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUuhSGnLvv8
Dragan, thank you very much for these video links. I have watched about half of both videos, and will continue watching to the end, and take notes in order to gain a better understanding of who the various factions and people are.
I searched YouTube for Naser Oric, but nothing in English came up. Have you any links to him in English, or with English subtitles?
Please continue to post on Saker with observations about current events in Serbia.
Stiv
Stiv, current events in Serbia are grim. Our government is comprised entirely of quislings. Our PM and president are colonial governors. But their grip on power is slipping away. We are not defeated, resistance is mounting up. Question is when will we oust them and will the blood be shed. I hope that no blood will be shed. Second question is will the struggle be usurped as before? Until that happens view with utmost scepticism anything that comes from current government
of Serbia.
About Oric in english i have found little, but try watching Hague trial where he was found not guilty for the killing of Serbs around Srebrenica. There you will find enough.
Here i will give you some food for thought.
This is the opening shot of Bosnian war
https://theremustbejustice.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/now-this-is-a-bomb-izetbegovic-and-muslim-leadership-had-ordered-celo-to-assassinate-bosnian-serb-wedding-guest-and-start-the-war-in-bosnia-says-key-witness-before-the-court/
Infamous Markale and other related incidents
https://theremustbejustice.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/hague-tribunal-the-grenade-at-the-sarajevo-markale-market-in-1994-was-shelled-by-the-army-of-bosnia-and-herzegovina-by-order-of-alija-izetbegovic/
Something that Bosnian muslims do not want to hear and wich was hinted at in videos
https://theremustbejustice.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/mustafic-naser-oric-liquidated-1000-bosniaks/
Hague justice
https://theremustbejustice.wordpress.com/2015/10/23/serbs-in-icty-hague-are-doomed-to-be-guilty-of-to-die/
Refugees and whining Europe
https://theremustbejustice.wordpress.com/2015/09/20/europe-forgets-that-serbia-alone-received-900000-refugees-in-the-nineties/
Perpetuation of Srebrenica myth
https://theremustbejustice.wordpress.com/2015/07/06/srebrenica-20-years-later-and-still-searching/
Ask yourself why these things went the way they did and why no honest investigation was conducted? Why the wounds were left to fester and those who have full mouths of peace are ignoring the danger of further poisoning? Instead of investigating what happened and punishing the guilty we are being choked with narrative that hides the truth. Serbs saw it happening after the WWI and creation of Kingdom of Yugoslavia (atrocities in Macva). We saw it happening after WWII. Ustase crimes are put under the rug and many were hastily accepted into partisans to save them from prosecution. Twice now we suffered for not clearing these things up. By clearing up i mean trials and publishing the truth, not vengeance and certainly not upon the descendants who had nothing to do with the crimes. We are now forced to see it happening again and if we raise our voice against it our colonial governors want to put us in jail up to five years.
To help you with research who the various faction were start here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Waffen-SS_divisions
Note the 7th,8th,13th,21st,23rd(Kama),24th and 31st SS divisions. All of them are fully or partially staffed with people living in Kingdom of Yugoslavia. We were third in numbers of units provided,just behind Germany and Hungary. Ukraine in comparison gave only one and yet Latvia and Estonia gave three. Astonishing numbers? And i have yet to hear that Serbs,being untermensch, were allowed to serve in them. So who participated,with what numbers and what happened to them? And how is it possible to see the repeat of exact same scenario less than 50 years after when those forces were defeated?
Hope this helps and if you have further questions be free to ask them.
Hi Dragan, I was wondering if you could write an article about this from the very beginning…sorry I’m completely ignorant, except for reading a couple of things about this on Saker’s.
I don’t get it.
Ann
There’s a good overall summary from the book “The CIA’s Greatest Hits” in the chapter on Yugoslavia. It was written in 1995, so before the Kosovo war, but in its last paragraph it mentions the CIA was already positioning and setting up its assets in Albania in 1994 – no doubt laying the ground work for the Kosovo war.
The bloodshed and chaos that have engulfed Yugoslavia since its breakup have been portrayed as the inevitable result of bottled-up ethnic tensions. But there’s considerable evidence that both the breakup and the warfare were encouraged by Western intelligence services-including Germany’s BND, the successor to the Gehlen Org.
Germany’s interests in the region date to World War II, when the Bosnians and Croats allied with the Nazis against the Serbs, who the Nazis regarded as untermenschen (subhumans). After Germany reunified in 1989, it began to take a more expansionist attitude toward Eastern Europe, and Yugoslavia in particular. In 1990, it urged the Bush administration to help it dismantle Yugoslavia.
Bush was happy to comply, since the US had longstanding plans to overthrow Yugoslavia’s government. Yugoslavia had recently renounced the market-oriented “shock treatment” prescribed for it, which had been causing social unrest, so it was a prime candidate for further destabilization.
The Germans encouraged Croatia to secede from Yugoslavia, and Bosnia soon followed. Germany immediately recognized the new nations, forcing the hand of the European Community, which had wanted to take a more cautious approach. The new Croatian state adopted the flag and anthem of its WWII Nazi puppet regime-and, in some cases, the same personnel.
Virulently fascist Croats had long been active in the World Anti-Communist League and other exile groups nurtured by the CIA. Many Eastern European Nazis had gone on to work with the CIA, either in the US or in covert operations abroad. With the collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe, many of these aging chickens came home to roost. Neofascist movements are active in Lithuania, Hungary and Romania, as well as in much of Western Europe (notably Italy).
Despite an official arms embargo against Croatia and Bosnia, Western powers immediately began covertly arming them, which would have been impossible without the knowledge and acquiescence of the CIA and the BND. Mercenaries from Britain, Germany and the US are said to be serving alongside the Croat militias-a sure sign of an ongoing covert operation. In fact, in 1994, the CIA opened a new base in Albania to monitor troop movements and “potential targets.”
Ann, i am sorry but i am unable to write such an article. Issue is complex and it goes back in time quite far. What i can do is to try and answer any of your questions regarding the subject.
However, i would like to bring to your attention those who used religion as a tool for conquest in history and are doing it right now. Military conquest,imposition of cultural values,forced religious conversions, forced acceptance of religion and retribution against those who oppose it,covert activities,disinformation,outright lying,distortion of facts,acceptance of slavery… How similar are they no matter what religion they profess? And how similar are those who do not consider aforementioned behaviour as virtues or necessities but instead as something to be reviled?
Wolfs hiding in sheeps skin and leading them to slaughter. Being my wolf does not make him less wolf and subsequent slaughter any better. There are some however that are blind to that fact.
Russian Servicemen Kidnapped in Crimea by Ukrainian Operatives
https://sputniknews.com/russia/201611211047686492-ukranian-operatives-abduct-russian-service-members/
Major zionazi provocation.
The current Serbian government by the Serbian Progressive Party, which split out of the Serbian Radical party in 2008 with the little help from their western friends, is the worst government Serbia has ever had! The Serbian Radical Party is akin to the Zhirinovsky’s LDP in Russia; extreme rhetoric with little substance; just what the Uncle Sam has ordered!
Serbian so-called premier, Alexandar Vuchich, is a mentally unstable individual, a perpetual lyre, and never worked a day in his life. Yet, never misses an opportunity to scold his own people for not being on par with his masters. If I tell you that, e.g., Tony Blare was one of his “advisers” until just recently, you should understand who we are dealing with. BTW, his election-campaigning friend, Juliani, just yesterday said that NATO was right to bomb Serbia (?!).
Serbia is definitely doomed with this stooge!
And this “law” is continuation of the war against Serbs via different means.
Mr. Karganovic is a wonderful individual that Serbia badly needs in these trying times.
The Srebrenica deaths are virtually all Bosnian Muslim military who died throughout the war (with most of the deaths they are claiming actually occurring BEFORE the fall) and they are including those who were never in Srebrenica.
It is Bosnian army military dead in eastern BiH. Serbs were defending themselves against this larger army within BiH and in the Srebrenica area.
Also, this army walked out of Srebrenica the day before the fall. That is a fact and even fully documented in the Dutch UN Srebrenica report.
The Dutch officers watched as, estimates of 15,000 Bosnian Muslim men, including thousands of their army, left Srebrenica the evening and overnight just before the fall.
The army was in fact ORDERED off their defense positions, which were strong and all around Srebrenica, the day before.
Along with them, the Dutch left their posts, except in the north.
The Dutch posts in the north were untouched by Serbs and were there throughout the fall and afterwards.
The Bosnian soldiers say it was their own brigade commanders AND the UN which ordered them off their defense positions all around Srebrenica.
This shows the fall was very arranged from the international community and Bosnian Muslim leadership.
The city was opened up for Serbs to come into a trap.
And the Serbs would be blamed for its fall even though it was fully abandoned by the large Bosnian Muslim brigade (28th Brigade) the day and night before.
The Bosnian Muslim left when there was no fighting the day before.
Meanwhile, the UN had ordered all the women and children to their Potocari base days before and warned them not to return to their homes.
When Serbs arrived in Srebrenica, in the late morning, the Bosnian Muslim army, along with thousands of men, had already cleared themselves out, and were going on foot towards Tuzla.
The UN then ordered the Serbs to take the Muslim women and children, which the UN had gathered, to Tuzla.
Serbs decided to send buses with civilian drivers and do what the UN ordered it to. The women and children were driven to Tuzla airport with UN escort.
The zionazi quislings in the uk join their fellow zionazi quislings in germany, the eu and america.
‘Witch hunt’: Report urges UK to ‘map,’ ‘challenge,’ and expose public figures with Russia links
https://www.rt.com/uk/367688-rt-sputnik-russia-report/
“An influential right-wing think-tank has proposed a radical clampdown on politicians and other prominent figures sympathetic to Russia by “challenging their credibility,” revealing their “insidious means of funding,” and forcing them to reveal if they receive money for appearing on RT.
The new report, published by the Henry Jackson Society comes as the EU parliament prepares to debate how to resist “disinformation and propaganda” from Russia on Tuesday.”
For the Jewish owned/run zio-gay media to work it’s magic on the population, that population has to be kept relatively isolated from other sources of information. The recent failures of the zio-media to control of the narrative have directly lead to failures of their policies dependent on people staying dumbed down. To fight this, the zionazis are working overtime to silence any non kosher source they can.
It was media propaganda that paved the way for zpc/nwo war against Yugoslavia. This guy has the right idea about how to deal with the zio-gay media and their disinfo.
Trump’s Election Victory Proves US Mainstream Media Worthless, Ex-Diplomat Says
https://sputniknews.com/us/201611221047691379-us-maistream-media-worthless/
“The extremely biased and hostile coverage of Trump, Russia and other subjects would continue while the media and its spokespersons would go on denying that such bias even existed, although it was now obvious to everyone, Armstrong predicted.
“The principal difference between [tiny local news outlets like] the Eatanswill Gazette and the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Economist and the rest of them is that the former freely admitted its bias,” he added.
Armstrong advised that the only way the American public could continue to retain its independence of mind in the face of such sustained efforts to politically brainwash it was to abandon the mainstream media entirely and opt for alternative and independent sources.
He also recommended that US colleges close down their schools of journalism that had completely failed to inculcate values and habits of independent thinking and critical analysis in almost all of their graduates.
“What to do? Turn off your TV, cancel your newspaper subscription and let them go bust faster. Oh, and shut down all the ‘journalism degree’ mills,” Armstrong said.
Until his retirement, Armstrong was a Canadian diplomat who was a specialist on the Soviet Union and Russia. He previously served as political counsellor in the Canadian Embassy in Moscow.”
Is the author Stephen Karganovic Russian?
What are his thoughts on Montenegro being turned into an anti-Russian entity after all the years/decades of investment, strong tourism and support by Russia and Russians?
The latest on that front is: Vice President of the Atlantic Council of the United States of Montenegro: Russia needs to learn that the “game is over”
NO, Mr. Karganovic is half American, half Serbian. His work in recent years mainly focuses on the Srebrenica hoax and the biasness of the Hague so-called Tribunal in general.
Apropos Monte Negro, it’s lead by a Mafioso, naturally, remotely controlled from Fashington. He would do everything in order to stay in power, just like his quisling-brother, Vuchich, in Belgrade.
The recipe is the same as everywhere else where the zionazi snakes strike: have your stooge impoverish the targeted population beyond their ability to resist, and then buy the most liable among them to serve you at the said population’s expense.
I am not sure that Russia takes Monte Negro for anything of particular value; it’s coast on the Adriatic Sea could keep the door open into the heart of Serbia, but the narrow entry into the sea itself is controlled by NATO.
Well the western propagandists claim Russia wanted access to Montenegro’s ports:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/11/serbia-deports-russians-suspected-of-plotting-montenegro-coup
Đjukanović has been instrumental in pulling his country to the verge of Nato membership – an accession protocol was signed in May – which has dashed Russian hopes of securing a naval foothold on the Adriatic. According to the Montenegrin press, Moscow lobbied hard in recent years for transit and maintenance facilities at the ports of Bar and Kotor.
The importance of such facilities was demonstrated late last month when the Russian carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov and its battle group was denied refuelling in European ports along their way to support the Russian military effort in Syria.
Surprise surprise serb goyim !
We going to shut it down !
Next its open borders for serb goyim !
These kebabs must live somewhere and you have to pay for your past crimes !
Not joined the alt Right serb brah ! Time is now !
Is vallhala rising cat motya?
Please make sure to take your meds before posting here, okay?
Cheers,
The Saker
I think he did take some meds before posting, of the recreational variety.
Darn good ones too.
Not a surprise. Most of young people in Serbia just adore the west. Government would do anything to please western interests.
Is this the same Karganovic who already in 1973. appointed himself (self-appointed) as an „honorary consul of the Kingdom of Tonga“ and admitted that he learned about the existence of Tonga from collecting post-stamps? The same „Count Karganovic“ who self promoted to the title of a „count“, explaining that it is „based on his royal serbian heritage“?
The same Karganovic who is being under the criminal investigation by the very authorities of „Republika Srpska“ for fraud?
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/bosnian-serb-police-investigates-us-lobbyist-for-embezzlement-04-08-2016
Come on, Saker, your site is worth much more then this…
Not sure what you are talking about, but for you information Mr Karganovic is about 50 years old. Which means that he would have been about 10 years old in 1973. The link you gave is a notorious Sorosite site which does what its paymaster demands. In this case its objective is to discredit someone who dares to shine a bright light on the murky events in and around Srebrenica in the Summer of 1995.
Good try, but it won’t work.
First, did you even look at the source?! Balkan Insight? LOL! Check out their other articles and you will see why I laugh
Second, this is not an article about a person, but by a person. Get the difference? Your point is a typical ad hominem which I have seen used against most of the folks who write for my blog, including Alexander Mercouris or Pepe Escobar. I have spent too many years inside the system not to know how it works and when it decides to smear a person. I myself have also been the object of smears and hate campaigns. Guess what? I don’t care for them or, for that matter, about them.
Last, but not least, your comment that “your site is worth much more then this” is correct, at least if the “this” you refer to is your own comment. Yes, indeed, my site is one which judges not by reputation, credentials, authority, prestige, position or anything else. I judge by one sole criteria: what the person actually writes, the substance of his/her arguments. Can you get that?
If tomorrow Oleg Liashko or Alan Dershowitz write a good article for me, I would post it without hesitation. And if some guy totally unknown to me writes a good article which I post here turns out to be a convicted pedophile, cannibal and mass murderer, I would not remove his article.
You and I live on two different intellectual planets. I want nothing to do with yours, with your pseudo-values and pseudo-reputations. Your kind of comments make me feel like puking with disgust for all the self-righteous hypocrisy they radiate. I thank you for posting it, however, it made it possible for me to express my disgust with the likes of you.
Most sincerely,
The Saker
Bob Baer, an ex-CIA, wrote a book recently about the planned destruction of Yugoslavia by the CIA. He said the CIA “knew” about Srebrenica a month before it happened. Thus, it was planned event for the US military intervention in Yugoslavia. Bob says the ethnic divisions were stirred by the US NGOs. He said he was sorry about what we did to Yugoslavia. This book should be widely published and promoted in Serbia.
Well there were discussions by Alija Izetbegovic, other Bosnian Muslim leaders and Serbs about swapping Srebrenica for Serb-held territory in and around Sarajevo back in 1993.
After Dayton, the very land that had been proposed to be swapped was drawn into the Muslim-Croat “Federation”. The western powers wanted to end the war and separate the factions at that point.
For Srebrenica, the UN did not want to keep protecting the Bosnian Muslim army in an area surrounded by Serbs. So they had a plan to get the army out and evacuate the town – had the women and children gathered at Potocari several days before, when there wasn’t even fighting. The army slipped out, and for some reason the Serbs came in.
The Serbs would not have stood a chance if that army was there – it was much larger, well supplied, dug in, experienced and in a defensive position.
I believe Serbs were informed that it left – that it was open.
There were also some baiting attacks against the Serbs in the preceding weeks, but in the days/week before the fall, there wasn’t really any fighting or battles around Srebrenica.
The question is why the Serbs went there the very day after the Bosnian Muslim army slipped out.
With their arrival they could be blamed for the fall.
Image if the Serbs decided not to go to Srebrenica that day.
You’d have a situation with the Bosnian army gone, who were walking towards Tuzla, and the women/children gathered and waiting at Potocari, but no Serbs to blame.
What would the press/international community say/do in that situation if not Serbs entered Srebrenica that day nor in the next several days or weeks?
That would have shows that the Muslims deserted their own city.
Allow me to say few words regarding yours.
1. “The western powers wanted to end the war and separate the factions at that point.”
Untrue. West wanted to intervene,we may argue their motives but not their intention.
2. “For Srebrenica, the UN did not want to keep protecting the Bosnian Muslim army in an area surrounded by Serbs.”
Funny that,because according to UN, Srebrenica was a demilitarized zone. Are we to believe that it was not demilitarized?
3. “The army slipped out, and for some reason the Serbs came in.”
Army that was not supposed to be there in the first place, Srebrenica being demilitarized. And for Serbs reason to come in, might it have anything to do with two years worth of slaughtering of civilians in and around Srebrenica from demilitarized zone under Naser Oric? To this i would add that point of those slaughtering was for soldiers to mutiny and descend into bloody vengeance,disobeying officers and commit real genocide. That is what we are seeing in Ukraine. Ukies shell civilians and soldiers are asking what are we waiting? Similar tactic? Barbaric in both cases.
4. “The Serbs would not have stood a chance if that army was there – it was much larger, well supplied, dug in, experienced and in a defensive position.”
That is the only thing that comes close to truth. Although that assertion is not tested in combat, the only judge to that statement. And again, let us not forget that Srebrenica was according to UN demilitarized zone and it somehow housed that same army. Heavy artillery in Ukraine monitored by international community?
5. “There were also some baiting attacks against the Serbs in the preceding weeks, but in the days/week before the fall, there wasn’t really any fighting or battles around Srebrenica.”
If you would call slaughter of civilians some baiting, be it on your soul.
6. “Image if the Serbs decided not to go to Srebrenica that day.”
If Serbs did not take Srebrenica that day there were two possible outcomes. First was status quo. Muslim army, that should not have been there in the first place, it is tiring repeating this again and again,would continue to commit attrocities in and around Srebrenica under protection of UN. Second one was that Serbs do not enter Srebrenica and that after years of “inaction” of high command, soldiers who lost someone, take matters in their hands. Then there would be real genocide which was prime objective of those war crimes in the first place. That should be viewed as a mutiny. If viewed like that then it would be devastating for moral and aided by media and NGO’s viewed as treason by the people. If covered up then it would be worse. It would fester and give enemy material for blackmail which could lead us all into even greater depths of hell.
You do not understand: the Muslim army, as well as thousands of Bosnian Muslim men, had already cleared out of Srebrenica BEFORE the Serbs even started going to Srebrenica.
If the Serbs did not enter, the Bosnian Muslim would still be on their way to Tuzla, then they started arriving a week later.
So you would have a Srebrenica deserted of its army and most of its men, but no Serbs would be there.
How could you have “status quo” when there was no longer an army in there?
And the U.S. did want the factions separated at that point. The U.S. Secretary of State did congratulate that they (the U.S./western powers) did get them separated. I will look for the quote.
Do look for the quote but actions speak louder than words. As for the army, they were to surrender their arms as soon as the demiilitarized zone under the protection of UN is established,which was two years before! In the light of those circumstances how can you trust a, now certified, oathbreaker? What would prevent them to return? UN, NATO, their word?
In neighboring Macedonia we have a breed of politician afflicted with the same madness as the above mentioned Serb pollies.The Balkans generally are enamoured with so-called western values, culture and attitude to their own detriment. Typically, political leaders cannot be seen to be over fond of their native identity, they believe they must continually express fealty to their unforgiving overlords. Hence, the schizoprenia in people like Vučić, they refuse to accept that one cannot serve two masters for any length of time.
However, Trump’s victory has opened a window of opportunity which many are grasping is a real wind of change. Will Balkan leaders grasp the potential of the moment? Macedonians are fed up with subserviant politicians although they do understand the delicacy of the situation they’re in. With upcoming elections on Dec. 11, ruling VMRO DPMNE supporters are turning out in force and its clear that they will deliver their party a massive victory. However, every effort will be made by the fifth column, Albanian separatists/terrorists all on the USAID/Soros payroll to undermine and/or outright refuse to recognise the result, thereby prolonging the 2 year old crisis ad infinitum. Gruevski and VMRO must grasp however, that these organisations are operating on inertia from the Obama/Clinton era which is slowly but surely, behind us. Indeed, Trump and Soros are enemies. What is now necessary – with a fresh mandate from the people behind them, is some severe handicapping of these organisations and their cancerous hold on the country.
The Balkans have been deeply impacted by the West in a profoundly negative manner, physically destroyed through being bombed with depleted uranium and countless other life destroying chemicals and psychologically enslaved through the most vicious propaganda. One can only go on being a hopeless slave for so long. Will the Balkan peoples – with or without their political leaders, rise up against their hateful overlord?
Glad to hear from you, Dimitar! I hope we both ride the winds of change to a better place.
Dobar den, Dragan, thank you, good to hear from you too. Yes, a break in the clouds. Who would have thought we’d see the back of Clinton, for example? A Clinton presidency would have been an unmitigated disaster for the Balkans. But, in truth, the battle is just beginning. Whereas before, we were just hanging on, now the men will be separated from the boys. I’ve always been a critic of our politicians – they seem to be paralysed with fear, incapable of any kind of real action. The assasination attempt on Presidents Gligorov in ’95 and Trajkovski’s murder in ’03 at US instigation, come to mind. But they need to realise that help from outside will never come, they’ve spent too many “moons” burying their heads in the sand and if they dont act, not only will they be ousted from government, but in Macedonia’s case, the country will be dissolved and divided between our neighbors. The people are sick and tired of this kind of “politikantsvo”, and want to see the nobodies that have pushed us to the brink be held to account! And personally, what gets me, about the fifth column and the “colored revolutionaries” is that they are such despicable f…ing nobodies!!! Total mediocraties, spineless creatures that have wrought such heartache and destruction. Who the hell are they, what gave them the right?
Pozdrav to the Serbian people, and to all freedom loving people everywhere!
I share your frustration.
But if there is silver lining then it could be found in the same reason for our frustration. Nobody’s are filling every system that is used against the people. That makes them vulnerable. Political appointees, cousins and buyers of places in the system,… Time of reckoning is coming closer and virtually every tool at their disposable is staffed with people who are incompetent. We should just think how to use that to our advantage. Present problems for them that require cooperation and flexibility. How can we do that? I admit that i do not know but in the long run it does not matter. Such problems will arise themselves and their own policies will be their undoing, although at a greater cost for us all.
There’s always a turnaround in the fortunes of every powermonger. Their own hubris does them in. We’re seeing this on a global scale. The time will come when the situation will even out in the Balkans. Serbia and Macedonia have a common enemy and should be working together against it, and from what I understand they are. Greater Albania – irreparably destructive to both countries, is the thrust of the US/Soros’ strategy. A strong Serbia and Macedonia is anathema to the west, hence the ongoing hybrid ops.
Our respective peoples need to do everything they can to keep our politicians in line. Gruevski, while maddening at times in his declarations of loyalty to the west, has always kept his people’s interests at heart, hence his disfavour in the eyes of the US/NATO/EU. The Albanians, as with the “Sorosoids” are nowhere near as strong without the US behind them. They’ve suffered a major setback in Trump’s victory and they know it. Things are markedly better than they were before the US elections. Whereas there was very little hope before, now there is not only hope, but a real sense of possibility. The first buds of spring are appearing after the long, bitter winter.
The problem with the Balkan populations is that they cannot let go of the past! The weight of history can be a real nuisance as it can prevent a way forward. One can still maintain one’s dignity as a people while “loving one’s neighbour”, you can’t however, move forward when you expect one set of rules to apply to yourself and not to your neighbour. This unfortunately is a condition of the human state of consciousness that is not easily remedied. Only life teaches us better, and that after a long cold hard “dark night of soul”.
At least Macedonia built a wall against the endless streams of migrants. Vucic keeps saying he won’t build a wall. Meanwhile, they are now coming in through Bulgaria and Serbia is stuck with thousands of them. Hungary built a wall, Croatian police guard their border and won’t allow them through, Bulgaria does have its own wall on its border with Turkish, but stupid Vucic is trying to look like a good dog for the EU.
Meanwhile, Serbs report that Subotica is not safe – the migrants break in and rob people; they attempted to rape a teen girl recently, in Belgrade a big brawl between the migrants, a day or two ago, left one dead in the streets. What do Serbs do with the body – send it back to Afghanistan or bury it in Serbia’s graveyards? These migrants are perfectly free to return home, but they still think they can eventually get to western Europe, and Serbia allows them to stay for months and months, even more than a year in some cases.
Macedonia is much stronger internally than it appears outwardly, there is a strong patriotic/security apparatus and its precisely this that the “Chador” or “Umbrella”, ie; all the forces on the USAID/Soros payroll, is trying to dismantle. Earlier this year when the country was under co-ordinated attack from the so-called NGOs directing the migrant hordes the security forces successfully defended the border repelling a number of attempts the worst and most tragic being when during one such attempt, Western European NGO cadre enabled illegal crossing of refugees who, attempting to navigate a breach in a swollen river ( floods had resulted from heavy rain ), resulted in death of a pregnant woman, her brother ( or cousin, I cant recall ), and another woman ( nor can I recall nationality atm. ) There was footage of the young NGO’s ( German, Czech, Greek etc. ) assisting the hapless refugees, faces were clear but promises of legal action were stymied, that was that!
In another incident, during another wave of bearded middle eastern males rushing the fence, footage circulated of a calm Macedonian policeman, who metres from the taunting middle eastern men demanding to be let in, stayed calm until finally responding, “This is my country and I’m willing to die for it!” This video made waves in Greece, as the Greeks felt bereft of such attitude, and the patriotism of the Macedonian defence did not sit well.
At the height of the crisis at the border, in a brilliant riposte to criticism from the EU and western media anti-Macedonian reporting re: the situation at Macedonia’s border, President Ivanov revealed that Macedonia, a candidate for so-called EU membership, in response to repeated calls for assistance from the EU received precisely…nothing!! Not one euro cent! All of the costs incurred in Macedonia’s defence of “Europe’s southern flank”, had come from Macedonian tax-payers! This caused an indignant response with some German or other bandying about sums in the 10s or 100s of thousands of Euroes as having been donated to Macedonia!! Ivanov was adamant however, Macedonia had not received one Euro cent! As it turned out, money had been sent to Macedonia, however, it had been funnelled to internal ( in Macedonia ) so-called humanitarian organisations/NGOs under direction and control of “Chadorot” and had, in fact been used against the country in Uncle Sam’s, along with his trusty whore, Europa’s ceaseless efforts to destabilise the country, ie; as part of the ongoing hybrid war.
Some support for Macedonia did eventually come, from individual EU countries who were aware of what awaited them should Macedonia be overun by illegal immigrants. I believe it was Orban’s
Hungary and Austria’s Sebastien Kurtz specifically who supported Macedonia, with contingents of police/army personel from a number of EU countries sent to assist Macedonian security as well.
My limited understanding of this issue comes from a website that used to be called “the emperors new clothes” (tenc.net). I was looking into the psychology of willful blindness and stumbled over the site around 2000 or 2001.
Do any of the other commenters here have any knowledge of this site, or of Jared Israel, the fellow who runs it. I don’t speak any other languages than English so my ability to fact check or verify is very limited.
I was always concerned that the site could be clever propaganda with 95% truth and some serious disinfo thrown in to muddy the waters. That said he did seem a trailblazer on NATO intrigues and the “hidden hand”.
Yes, I do. At the time (1990’s), I lived in Boston area and was a member of SAANE (Serbian American Association of New England), a truly independent humanitarian organization organizing and sending help for Serbian refugees, publishing true information about history of the region, informing various MSM about their fraudulent statements and informing Boston politicians about true situation. Essentially countering propaganda. I remember that Jared Israel was in touch with some members about where to find reliable historic material and witness accounts from WWII, specially Jasenovac camp.
Reading his material on that web site tenc.net I can testify that his published material fully reflect historical truth about Yugoslavia, as far as we knew it at the time. I don’t know him personally so can’t say anything else about him.
He appears to be quite moved and motivated in his publications by the destruction of Bosnian and Krajina Serbs, Roma and Jews by the ustashi clero-fascistic regime(1941-1945), as well as by the largest antifascist resistance movement (Tito’s partizans) in Europe at that time.
One more interesting bit of information. SAANE doesn’t exist any longer. It was destroyed from within by a strange group of people who joined it later (after 1997). My hunch is that in view of upcoming 1999 war and plans to completely destroy 3-rd Yugoslavia (consisting of Serbia and Montenegro) such an organization with high degree of credibility (its own newspaper, dozens of professors at all Boston universities and colleges) should be made disfunctional. And that is what happened.
Regards, Spiral
Thanks guys it always had the ring of truth to me. it’s nice to see some confirmation
“One more interesting bit of information. SAANE doesn’t exist any longer. It was destroyed from within by a strange group of people who joined it later (after 1997).”
Did you ever get or remember the names of those people and do some digging/research on them?
Also hasn’t the Serbian Unity Congress (SUC) also disappeared or dissolved into almost nothing?
They once did have some good pieces on Serbian culture, but then they started supporting Otpor (CIA) and the puppet government, and their pieces and work seemed to connect with U.S. policies.
Unfortunately not. I am sure it is possible to find out, but what is the point? They have done some ugly things, e.g. character assassination, voting their people to position where non-decisions are made, breaking unity and spirit of the association, etc, but nothing illegal.
It looks like they have been instructed to demolish operation of SAANE. And it does not matter who sent them. In other words, we didn’t have sufficient immunity to such, I would say, “mild infection”. Most of us, not being professional revolutionaries, were unprepared for saboteurs, and being disgusted , we turned back to our jobs and families.
Regards, Spiral
To find out their names in order to keep track of them and see what they are up to these days, and to warn people about them – if you see then getting into other groups or hanging around good/patriotic Serbs or others. Like, for instance, if they were involved or started some kind of “charity”/project then you’d know that it probably wasn’t legit or would be sending money or diverting money to those who harm or work against good causes and folk.
Simon, i just looked the site (part about Yugoslavia) and in my opinion it looks ok. Of Jared Israel i have not heard anything, sorry there. Some of the articles there are quite hard to believe if you are an outsider to the region or its history so i understand your scepticism.
Jared Israel is a Jewish American who genuinely wanted to find the truth of the situation. His father once said a few nice things about Serbs when he was a kid, and I guess that is why he didn’t automatically buy the propaganda and decided to dig deeper. Kind of the opposite all the liberal/neo-con Jews were pushing the anti-Serb policies and propaganda.
He had interviews with people from the area, including those who still lived there. I remember he had interviews with some ethnically cleansed people from Pristina in Kosovo. These included Jews and Roma and mixed families. Their names were fully listed and they detailed what happened right after the Serb forces left and the KLA and NATO came in. They were in the part of Kosovo which was designated the “British sector” and saw that the KLA terrorists came in with the British soldiers. They said the KLA was using tear gas to systematically force the people out of the apartments in the nicer areas. These apartments, I believe were later used or rented out by Albanians to the international community.
His articles were the go-to source for those following the situation back in 1999 until about 2001. But then he essentially stopped – perhaps he gave up on the Serbs once the puppet government was installed, perhaps he was diverted by the bombings and occupations on Iraq and Afghanistan. He might have burnt out.
The hypocrisy and lying has to have an end, cannot go on forever and ever. My hope is that what happened in the late 80′ with the final result of the fall the Soviet Union and the entire Eastern Block, including the disintegration by force of Yugoslavia, will have a boomerang effect which now could be seen by the defeat of Hillary Clinton and Co. If the rules of history are the same, the same effect of cards fall will be allover the Establishment political structures. It will come a day when the people of Serbia and Montenegro will realize that the time for change is here and will act accordingly. History is teaching lessons and those lessons must be learned. The same goes with the individual.
Eh Ioan,
You think ‘The hypocrisy and lying has to have an end, cannot go on forever and ever’. When you catch proverbial golden fish call me and I will email you few of my wishes :-)
I do not know of a single society where some sort of H&L does not appear in one form or another. Like a cold or allergy. The best medication appears to be biting joke, aphorism, or a poem a talent I seriously lack in spite of taking nutritional supplements my spiritual doctor recommends.
Best regards, Spiral
Thanks, Spiral, I’ll keep your advise.
The narrative in Serbia must really be unravelling for this law to be trotted out. Its almost like an admission of defeat of the official narrative.
Usually governments try and bluff their way out or sponsor groups to support the narrative without showing an official hand.
Another attempt by the “Powers that be” to legislate truth.. if you have to make it illegal to say something than that alone makes it stink like a lie
The ‘Srebrenica genozide’ has all hallmarks of a classic Zionist hoax. The sum total of all these millions of faked events is known to us as the ‘history of Western civilization’
1) Hoax a shocking event
2) Propagandize it to the tilt
3) Stage a fake-trial
4) Create new legislation based on the elaborate hoax
5) Entrain the fake event in the collective mind of humanity through through novels, stage plays, movies, school books, exhibitions & museums, articles in scientific journals.
This book is very interesting
http://resistir.info/livros/srebrenica_massacre_rev_3.pdf
I also want to mention one fact little talked about when it comes to the Srebrenica hoax.
Namely, it’s the sheer number of “men and boys” victims of 8,000+ that is meant to aid in qualifying this as “genocide”. And look what they came up with: bring bodies from Indonesia and Tyland for “DNA identification” all the way to Tuzla, the main US base at the former Yugoslav Army airport in Bosnia. Of course, nobody has control over how many bodies were brought, what happened to them after “identification”, etc. Add to that the number of Bosniaks who were buried in Srebrenica long after the war was over according to their desires.
I’ll quote few titles of articles from the ICMP (“International” :-) Commission of Missing Persons), and game should become clear:
Identification of Srebrenica Victims Passes 2,000
ICMP to Identify Tsunami Victims
US Ambassador Douglas McElhaney Tours ICMP Facilities in Tuzla
ICMP to Help Identify Tsunami Victims as a Humanitarian Measure
James Kimsey and HM Queen Noor (of Jordan) Visit Bosnia and Herzegovina
… etc.
Note that it’s as “neutral” as it can get – something like the White Helmets in Syria today :-).
http://www.icmp.int/category/press-releases/page/39/
River Drina is crossing the land here is spoken about. Three empires started its collapse here: Rome, Otoman and Habsburgs Germany. The war in Bosnia and Kosovo was the first time the Wall Street empire was forced to use the force. By using the military power and fabricating these kind of spinning lies american culture have lost its attractiveness and made people all around the world looking on them with disgusting feeling. And, of course, it is beginning of the end of empire.