At about the 14 minute mark, after both capitalism and communism had been revealed as flawed systems, Orlov answered the question, What is the solution? And he replied, “Compassion.” This is the way in which a true economy can work in this world.
Even more stunning, Max Keiser – who has one hell of a thinker’s mind but also one hell of an annoying tendency to rant every time he opens his mouth – didn’t even question this but started to riff creatively on this proposition.
One could say, in Orlov’s terms, that when compassion is the guiding force, then for the first time ever, this world can have an economic system that works.
I will offer this: that when the Buddha was enlightened, he perceived clearly without delusion that the true nature of all living beings is compassion. All living beings – including the ones we hate because they’re so evil. All beings who are less than compassionate are less than their true nature.
One day – so the aspiration goes – we will all be living according to our true nature. Then we’ll find that we have an economy that works.
One could choose whichever part of that equation that resonates, and make it one’s ambition.
It’s interesting to see the disciplines coming together. The one time “hard” scientist Gregg Braden reported in one of his interviews available on YouTube that he had spoken about science with a long time 80 yr old monk in some remote Eastern Monastery and asked “what is the greatest force in the Universe?” to which the answer was “Compassion”.
I think however Dmitry is wrong in one respect with his suggestions for “how to” fix the problems. That is that he provides a “solution”.
The system we have no longer works. It was a system that did work well for people when we were [a] few in number and [b] tended to cluster in the small groups of around 150 people to which Orlov refers. Now, we have metropolised – all over the world – to be massive clusters of millions. And this doesn’t work, it’s true. The majority of the people vaguely sense that the system no longer works, and is thus breaking down, but they have not mourned it’s loss nor moved on to make another one that does work.
What Dmitry is proposing however, if you have “rules” and a “design”, is no different at base to what we have had in the past few thousand years. And that is a system with someone(s) in charge, enforcing a design. And while it might work for a while it will always break down, because you are ignoring one of the fundamental laws of the Universe.
This is obtainable by studying a little Chaos / Complexity Theory and adding Advanced Systems Theory to it.
And Complexity Theory – which has been incorporated into a number of fields – tells us something observable 100% of the time; that complex systems exist ,[ made up of simpler systems ] and that they always [a] self organise and [b] do so by aggregating their parts around the attraction of like/similar to like/similar and the free unimpeded flow of feedback loops.
The trouble with any “system” we endeavour to “design” and force onto people is that they invariably try and fight those two basic laws of all natural organisation in the Universe.
We can see these laws being broken around us every day – and the inevitable consequences.
All we can do is what, to a large extent I believe President Putin sees and is trying to do; structure a “roof” of safety which provides for the most basic needs of survival, and then let people do whatever they want [subject only to the laws of Malum in Se], within that structure. Let them aggregate according to what and whom they are attracted; let the natural feed back loops flow. Let them “do what comes naturally” and LEARN, because people have to learn, even to be compassionate with and towards each other.
Only when we do this can we make a society that actually does work – because it will be following universal unvarying laws.
Love your comment, Isabella. The way I see it is that “universal unvarying laws” are being followed at all times by all societies–that’s just tautological. But with increased compassion, and the Taoist “wu-wei” (actionless action), and less resistance, the laws won’t prove so onerous for so many of us.
Thanks G-man. I dont’ think those laws are being followed though, if you have the ideology of Communism or Capitalism, nor of any religions, being imposed by force. And telling people “you have to like and welcome these new people, who neither look like you, speak as you do, believe or eat and or live as you do, ie. are totally “non-like and alien” is a clear cut recipe for disaster. Telling the resisters “you are something evil, called racist” isn’t’ going to do a damn thing but make matters worse.
But yes, I agree with you that what we need, more than anything and right now, is lots and lots of compassion and kindness.
That’s a lot of fancy words, Isabella, but first things first; the world is run/ravaged by an organized crime syndicate of psychotic savages, cranks, at its core talmudism.
That’s the out of control machine since the 16th/17th c., when they grabbed power with sugar! (trans-Atlantic slave trade/exploitation, starting in Madeira)
So this barbaric tyranny absurdly masquerading as democracy (there never was democracy, nor freedom of speech, just slavery) is rather the real problem . . . I definitely like Dmitry Orlov though.
I have been thinking almost similar. The problem of the world is ideology concocted in a man’s brain about creating/engineering a system such as the -isms. This is what is wrong, what you create in your mind and reality are two different things, especially when you are trying to engineer nature in unconventional way, you are going against the law of nature/god and it comes to bite you in the end. However, no matter how much destruction man does to nature, the universe will still be there, it is man who will perish. So technically if we destroy nature, we destroy ourselves, the universe still exists recreating new nature. All these -isms do nothing to benefit any society even though it might seem to work for a while. Nothing is permanent. So my point is to go back to nature, let things, societies be where they are and evolve without social engineering which what -ism is all about. Let there be natural competition and mini wars among without any outside interference.
Isabella, what a truly enlightening comment and insight. The rub comes when trying to figure out the transition strategy, to get away from the existing destructive system and into alignment with the laws of natural organization. Even so, thank you so much for writing this.
It should be known that Compassion is not natural empathy but a commandment given by God, the commandment for the man to imitate the love that God has for man. It is a high call:
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:34)
“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3: 15-18).
It is a Christian virtue and was exercised in the Church. ” Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (i.e. baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit). In Greek it is ‘agape’ which was also the term for the communal meal when Christians gather to bring the Sacrifice of thanking (Eucharistia) and praising God for His grace, mercy, His love for Mankind. “Let us love one another, that with one mind we may confess the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Trinity One in essence and undivided”.
Great interview. Compassion is the answer. Anyone who loves another be it family members or friends knows that this is true. The US empire’s insanity has to be stopped before it is too late for humanity. Orlov and Saker’s letter reminds the psychopaths of the west that Russia will not be beaten by them. They will be destroyed if they try. Thanks Orlov and Saker.
The Western economic and monetary system of usury, debt and printing paper money out of thin air has infected the entire planet since the Europeans setup their central banks and accelerated immensely especially since the 19th and 20th centuries.
How can you conduct trade with something that has no intrinsic value ?
Not only does this money have no value but it is used to make even more money out of no effort.
They print worthless paper money, then they lend it out with an interest (usury) to make more money out of the sweat of the masses who they have forced upon them to use their worthless money which they have created with no effort in the first place.
The people of the world have accepted this form of disgrace and they will pay a very heavy price for such a deceit and treachery to occur on a global scale.
God all mighty says in the Quran:
(Those who eat Riba (usury) will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except like the standing of a person beaten by Shaitan (Satan) leading him to insanity. That is because they say: “Trading is only like Riba (usury),” whereas Allah has permitted trading and forbidden Riba (usury). So whosoever receives an admonition from his Lord and stops eating Riba (usury) shall not be punished for the past; his case is for Allah (to judge); but whoever returns [to Riba (usury)], such are the dwellers of the Fire – they will abide therein)
[Surat al Baqara, ayah 275]
Corruption occurs when money is owned by few and this is why all religions have banned and outlawed usury, the process of profiting or making money of out of the need of others.
So they not only create the money out of no effort, but they continuously keep people working and sweating to receive this worthless money and they continue to lend this money to increase their money……in the process they use people, take their goods, products, precious metals and anything with an intrinsic value.
Usury was one of the last if not the last thing mentioned by the Prophet of Islam (Mohammed) before his death, and have are part of the scholarly authenticated sayings (Hadiths):
Those who consume interest cannot stand except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity.” (2:275), Source: Tafsīr al-Ṭabarī 2:279
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Adultery and usury do not become widespread among a people except that there will descend upon them the punishment of Allah the Exalted.” Source: Sahih Ibn Hibban 4502
The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Allah has cursed the one who consumes usury, its client, its witness, and its recorder.” Source: Musnad Ahmad 3799
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “A time will come upon people when they will consume usury.” They said to him, “Is that all of the people?” The Prophet said, “Whoever does not take from it will be afflicted by its dust.” …..Indicating that it will be almost if not impossible to escape it.
Source: Musnad Ahmad 10191
Abu Huraira reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “There will come a time upon the people in which a person will not care from where he receives his wealth, either lawfully or unlawfully.” Source: Sahih Bukhari 1977
We as God fearing people (Muslim or others) who are aware of what is occurring, are therefore given patience, glad tidings and reassurances by the mercy of the all Mighty that this corruption, oppression and injustice created by the Judeo-Western powers will come to an end……
Whether this end comes within 2 to 5 years or will take another 100 years is not in our hands, but is known only by the All Mighty……and ironically this end will come at the hands of the corrupt and oppressive elite (which is by the way not only found in the West, but obviously lead by the West)
…..and this is the result of their corruption, oppression, arrogance and injustice (these words are not even used in the Western vocabulary)……it blinds the leaders from their own destruction…
Compassion WOULD work. Even children enjoy the importance that comes from being helpful to one they love. This might be a mostly voluntary basis, as i imagine it. Rather like Old Europe , villages of roughly 200, with well worn trading paths and no walls. Matriarchal? I think this is an old idea that can be used now.
The actual commune system that Dmitry is calling for would only work if you had an isolated economy of 150 people growing their own crops, building their own houses and selling their crops in exchange for certain needs like electricity, appliances, farming equipment, etc. I would like to see such communes set up in the US as an experiment to combat corporate farming that is wiping out family farms. Yes, I still miss those nice communities I took part in. No state support required, just work together. New ones will sprout up. The Facebook generation does not know what they are missing.
Another “summer solutions” show from Max Kaiser about the finances of going into exile from the USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfffNaKoSU8
Astonishing.
At about the 14 minute mark, after both capitalism and communism had been revealed as flawed systems, Orlov answered the question, What is the solution? And he replied, “Compassion.” This is the way in which a true economy can work in this world.
Even more stunning, Max Keiser – who has one hell of a thinker’s mind but also one hell of an annoying tendency to rant every time he opens his mouth – didn’t even question this but started to riff creatively on this proposition.
One could say, in Orlov’s terms, that when compassion is the guiding force, then for the first time ever, this world can have an economic system that works.
I will offer this: that when the Buddha was enlightened, he perceived clearly without delusion that the true nature of all living beings is compassion. All living beings – including the ones we hate because they’re so evil. All beings who are less than compassionate are less than their true nature.
One day – so the aspiration goes – we will all be living according to our true nature. Then we’ll find that we have an economy that works.
One could choose whichever part of that equation that resonates, and make it one’s ambition.
Compassion, ie. Love. Turns out the answer to was given 2000 years ago when it was stated “Love your neighbor as yourself”
Compassion? Whatever. This answer is just a platitude.
Might as well have said the answer is unicorns, rainbows, and cute little kittens!
Compassion is exhausting, as Ivan Ilyich (and many a non-fictional person) discovered.
It’s interesting to see the disciplines coming together. The one time “hard” scientist Gregg Braden reported in one of his interviews available on YouTube that he had spoken about science with a long time 80 yr old monk in some remote Eastern Monastery and asked “what is the greatest force in the Universe?” to which the answer was “Compassion”.
I think however Dmitry is wrong in one respect with his suggestions for “how to” fix the problems. That is that he provides a “solution”.
The system we have no longer works. It was a system that did work well for people when we were [a] few in number and [b] tended to cluster in the small groups of around 150 people to which Orlov refers. Now, we have metropolised – all over the world – to be massive clusters of millions. And this doesn’t work, it’s true. The majority of the people vaguely sense that the system no longer works, and is thus breaking down, but they have not mourned it’s loss nor moved on to make another one that does work.
What Dmitry is proposing however, if you have “rules” and a “design”, is no different at base to what we have had in the past few thousand years. And that is a system with someone(s) in charge, enforcing a design. And while it might work for a while it will always break down, because you are ignoring one of the fundamental laws of the Universe.
This is obtainable by studying a little Chaos / Complexity Theory and adding Advanced Systems Theory to it.
And Complexity Theory – which has been incorporated into a number of fields – tells us something observable 100% of the time; that complex systems exist ,[ made up of simpler systems ] and that they always [a] self organise and [b] do so by aggregating their parts around the attraction of like/similar to like/similar and the free unimpeded flow of feedback loops.
The trouble with any “system” we endeavour to “design” and force onto people is that they invariably try and fight those two basic laws of all natural organisation in the Universe.
We can see these laws being broken around us every day – and the inevitable consequences.
All we can do is what, to a large extent I believe President Putin sees and is trying to do; structure a “roof” of safety which provides for the most basic needs of survival, and then let people do whatever they want [subject only to the laws of Malum in Se], within that structure. Let them aggregate according to what and whom they are attracted; let the natural feed back loops flow. Let them “do what comes naturally” and LEARN, because people have to learn, even to be compassionate with and towards each other.
Only when we do this can we make a society that actually does work – because it will be following universal unvarying laws.
Love your comment, Isabella. The way I see it is that “universal unvarying laws” are being followed at all times by all societies–that’s just tautological. But with increased compassion, and the Taoist “wu-wei” (actionless action), and less resistance, the laws won’t prove so onerous for so many of us.
Thanks G-man. I dont’ think those laws are being followed though, if you have the ideology of Communism or Capitalism, nor of any religions, being imposed by force. And telling people “you have to like and welcome these new people, who neither look like you, speak as you do, believe or eat and or live as you do, ie. are totally “non-like and alien” is a clear cut recipe for disaster. Telling the resisters “you are something evil, called racist” isn’t’ going to do a damn thing but make matters worse.
But yes, I agree with you that what we need, more than anything and right now, is lots and lots of compassion and kindness.
That’s a lot of fancy words, Isabella, but first things first; the world is run/ravaged by an organized crime syndicate of psychotic savages, cranks, at its core talmudism.
That’s the out of control machine since the 16th/17th c., when they grabbed power with sugar! (trans-Atlantic slave trade/exploitation, starting in Madeira)
So this barbaric tyranny absurdly masquerading as democracy (there never was democracy, nor freedom of speech, just slavery) is rather the real problem . . . I definitely like Dmitry Orlov though.
Isabella
That is a very thoughtful solution you are positing. I think you are effeminately onto something here.
I’ll have to think about it some and see where the idea leads.
Siotu
Dear Isabella,
I have been thinking almost similar. The problem of the world is ideology concocted in a man’s brain about creating/engineering a system such as the -isms. This is what is wrong, what you create in your mind and reality are two different things, especially when you are trying to engineer nature in unconventional way, you are going against the law of nature/god and it comes to bite you in the end. However, no matter how much destruction man does to nature, the universe will still be there, it is man who will perish. So technically if we destroy nature, we destroy ourselves, the universe still exists recreating new nature. All these -isms do nothing to benefit any society even though it might seem to work for a while. Nothing is permanent. So my point is to go back to nature, let things, societies be where they are and evolve without social engineering which what -ism is all about. Let there be natural competition and mini wars among without any outside interference.
Isabella, what a truly enlightening comment and insight. The rub comes when trying to figure out the transition strategy, to get away from the existing destructive system and into alignment with the laws of natural organization. Even so, thank you so much for writing this.
It should be known that Compassion is not natural empathy but a commandment given by God, the commandment for the man to imitate the love that God has for man. It is a high call:
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:34)
“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3: 15-18).
It is a Christian virtue and was exercised in the Church. ” Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (i.e. baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit). In Greek it is ‘agape’ which was also the term for the communal meal when Christians gather to bring the Sacrifice of thanking (Eucharistia) and praising God for His grace, mercy, His love for Mankind. “Let us love one another, that with one mind we may confess the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Trinity One in essence and undivided”.
Saker youre doing a heck of a job at it. Thanks
Great interview. Compassion is the answer. Anyone who loves another be it family members or friends knows that this is true. The US empire’s insanity has to be stopped before it is too late for humanity. Orlov and Saker’s letter reminds the psychopaths of the west that Russia will not be beaten by them. They will be destroyed if they try. Thanks Orlov and Saker.
The Western economic and monetary system of usury, debt and printing paper money out of thin air has infected the entire planet since the Europeans setup their central banks and accelerated immensely especially since the 19th and 20th centuries.
How can you conduct trade with something that has no intrinsic value ?
Not only does this money have no value but it is used to make even more money out of no effort.
They print worthless paper money, then they lend it out with an interest (usury) to make more money out of the sweat of the masses who they have forced upon them to use their worthless money which they have created with no effort in the first place.
The people of the world have accepted this form of disgrace and they will pay a very heavy price for such a deceit and treachery to occur on a global scale.
God all mighty says in the Quran:
(Those who eat Riba (usury) will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except like the standing of a person beaten by Shaitan (Satan) leading him to insanity. That is because they say: “Trading is only like Riba (usury),” whereas Allah has permitted trading and forbidden Riba (usury). So whosoever receives an admonition from his Lord and stops eating Riba (usury) shall not be punished for the past; his case is for Allah (to judge); but whoever returns [to Riba (usury)], such are the dwellers of the Fire – they will abide therein)
[Surat al Baqara, ayah 275]
Corruption occurs when money is owned by few and this is why all religions have banned and outlawed usury, the process of profiting or making money of out of the need of others.
So they not only create the money out of no effort, but they continuously keep people working and sweating to receive this worthless money and they continue to lend this money to increase their money……in the process they use people, take their goods, products, precious metals and anything with an intrinsic value.
Usury was one of the last if not the last thing mentioned by the Prophet of Islam (Mohammed) before his death, and have are part of the scholarly authenticated sayings (Hadiths):
Those who consume interest cannot stand except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity.” (2:275), Source: Tafsīr al-Ṭabarī 2:279
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Adultery and usury do not become widespread among a people except that there will descend upon them the punishment of Allah the Exalted.” Source: Sahih Ibn Hibban 4502
The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Allah has cursed the one who consumes usury, its client, its witness, and its recorder.” Source: Musnad Ahmad 3799
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “A time will come upon people when they will consume usury.” They said to him, “Is that all of the people?” The Prophet said, “Whoever does not take from it will be afflicted by its dust.” …..Indicating that it will be almost if not impossible to escape it.
Source: Musnad Ahmad 10191
Abu Huraira reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “There will come a time upon the people in which a person will not care from where he receives his wealth, either lawfully or unlawfully.” Source: Sahih Bukhari 1977
We as God fearing people (Muslim or others) who are aware of what is occurring, are therefore given patience, glad tidings and reassurances by the mercy of the all Mighty that this corruption, oppression and injustice created by the Judeo-Western powers will come to an end……
Whether this end comes within 2 to 5 years or will take another 100 years is not in our hands, but is known only by the All Mighty……and ironically this end will come at the hands of the corrupt and oppressive elite (which is by the way not only found in the West, but obviously lead by the West)
…..and this is the result of their corruption, oppression, arrogance and injustice (these words are not even used in the Western vocabulary)……it blinds the leaders from their own destruction…
This is interesting as well: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot
Compassion WOULD work. Even children enjoy the importance that comes from being helpful to one they love. This might be a mostly voluntary basis, as i imagine it. Rather like Old Europe , villages of roughly 200, with well worn trading paths and no walls. Matriarchal? I think this is an old idea that can be used now.
The actual commune system that Dmitry is calling for would only work if you had an isolated economy of 150 people growing their own crops, building their own houses and selling their crops in exchange for certain needs like electricity, appliances, farming equipment, etc. I would like to see such communes set up in the US as an experiment to combat corporate farming that is wiping out family farms. Yes, I still miss those nice communities I took part in. No state support required, just work together. New ones will sprout up. The Facebook generation does not know what they are missing.