by Andrew Korybko
Germany and Poland’s rejection of visa issuance for the Night Wolves patriotic bikers is politically motivated and speaks loudly about the West’s double standards towards NGOs. The group wanted to partake in a commemorative pilgrimage across Eastern Europe en route to Berlin in order to commemorate the 70th anniversary of Victory Day, and they were entirely transparent about their routes and itinerary. In the context of the New Cold War, it was obvious that if they would have been granted access to the EU, they’d have been watched over like a hawk and had every one of their moves monitored, thus ensuring that none of the ‘provocations’ that the Western mainstream media scared their citizens about would have had any chance of coming to pass even if the bikers wanted them to (which they didn’t).
So what in effect happened was that the EU fear mongered about and banned non-political private citizens who were planning to pay homage to the tens of millions of Europeans that perished in World War II. The Night Wolves are essentially a Russian NGO, in that they’re literally a non-governmental organization, meaning that the EU banned a foreign NGO at the last minute after embarrassingly exposing its members to hours-long interrogations and searches. The EU was so against the Russian NGO that they wouldn’t even allow them across the border under the Orwellian observation that they obviously would have been exposed to during their entire trip. Let that sink in for a moment, and then imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.
Russia has never treated a foreign NGO in this manner, not even those which are politically oriented and clearly engaged in regime change destabilizations. Rather, Moscow simply stipulates that NGOs receiving financing from abroad need to register as foreign agents in order to legally conduct their affairs in the country. It doesn’t force their members to undergo humiliating searches and interrogations at border crossings, and the harassment techniques practiced by the EU against the Night Wolves are noticeably absent in the case of their Polish counterparts’ yearly commemorative visit to Smolensk and Katyn. Russia doesn’t treat any foreign political, social, or historical NGO members in the same hostile manner as the EU treats Russians, nor does Moscow ban private individuals like the EU has de-facto done against the bikers. Despite this, Russia is constantly smeared in the Western press as being ‘authoritarian’, ‘xenophobic’, and ‘nationalistic’, but the irony is that these labels actually describe the West itself, as is clearly evidenced from their treatment of the Night Wolves.
In fact, the EU epitomizes all the socio-political negativities that it accuses Russia of, and actually behaves worse than it ever accused Moscow of acting when it comes to the Brussels’ own practice in this regard. It’s not the pot calling the kettle black, but more like a burned-out kettle having the audacity to level that label against a stainless steel pot. Such a comparison is delusion and devoid of reality, but the EU’s hypocritical criticism of Moscow’s NGO treatment testifies to the ideological rigor in which politics is practiced in the EU. The only reason that such a narrative is even espoused and surprisingly believed by many in Europe is because of the heavy information war that Brussels is waging against its own citizens.
People living in the EU are brought up in the belief of their own civilizational exceptionalism, not unlike the American indoctrination that has been ongoing for decades already (the proxy learns from its master, evidently). From the cradle to the grave, they’re led to believe that Europe is the proselytizing ‘force of good’ in the world, and that its people have an obligation to ‘civilize’ their Russian and Arab neighbors, including through the use of EuroMaidan and “Arab Spring” Color Revolutions. Solely through the narrow dialectic belief that one’s ideas represent the only ‘true good’ in the world can the hypocrisy of the EU’s treatment of Russian NGOs and private citizens (to say nothing of Syrians) appear ‘acceptable’ to the European populace, while the comparative lack of harassment by Russian and Syrian authorities can be used to fuel a ‘human rights’ crusade against those two countries that continues to this day.
Dear Mr Korybko,
Thank you for writing this.
I have been appalled by the utter disgusting and nasty behaviour in regard to the Night Wolves commemerative ride to Berlin. It is utterly disgraceful and dosn’t reflect the majority of decent Europeans who (if more aware) would condem this. Sadly, they have allowed their press to lie, dishonour and mislead them for years.
The whole desecration and treatment of the Victory Day celebrations is a very sad reflection on those countries and I would not balme Russia from turning its back on them in disgust. No lifting of sanctions on these countries would maybe send a clear message.
To think all the Russians/USSR who died for these ungrateful people……….
Rgds,
Veritas
Nobody died for “those ungrateful people” – they weren’t born at the time.
And none of their parents asked for the “Red Army” to come impose their totalitarian state on them. In fact they would have much preferred living under Hitler than Stalin. You should come to grip with the fact that nobody in their right mind admires Stalin – only p̶a̶t̶r̶i̶o̶t̶i̶c̶ idiotic Russians do.
To many, permitting these Russian bikers with Stalinist/Communist flags to ride through Europe would be like Russia permitting German Nazis with swastikas to motorbike through Russia celebrating the German advance against Communism and putting wreaths on German soldier graves. I don’t think Russia would permit it.
Red Army defending Russia from attack is one thing – though I would argue it is Stalin that brought WW II onto Russia by his plan to invade all of Europe and make it Communist, which Hitler pre-empted with Operation Barbarossa. But regardless whose fault the German/Russian war was, USSR had no justification to enslave Eastern Europe after Germany was defeated. They should have withdrawn and let the people rule themselves – but no, Stalin had to impose his totalitarian rule on East Europe. Nobody is thankful for that. Nobody is an ingrate for not welcoming totalitarian domination by a profoundly evil dictator.
Here an idiotic Spanish who admires comrade Koba.
As a counterargument to your “personal reading of history” I leave this analysis on Ribbentrop / Molotov Pact by Rodolfo Bueno in Spanish for Rebelión
http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=198101&titular=el-pacto-ribbentrop-m%F3lotov-
You’re right, he is an idiot.
As to personal readings of history, it seems to offend that I have my own opinions? Would it please you if I internalize those of Satan (or his spawn, Stalin)? As it stands I form my opinions based on evidence, not on what some mass-murdering dictator states.
The fact that Hitler was defending Europe against Stalin is actually quite indisputable. It is a fact that is often left out, as propaganda tends to leave out facts that are inconvenient to the narrative.
Anyone referring to that monster as “comrade Koba” makes the evil of the Empire seem quite benign in comparison.
You can think what the hell you want, and I do not care, I just wanted to bring another vision. You’re the one who seems annoyed with those who admire Stalin because you insult us shamelessly. I have not insulted you by what you think, think about it.
Well your vision is hardly qualified as “another one”, it is arguably the dominant vision on Russian sites. On the other hand, what I wrote, I have not seen written on this site before. Have you? I would be interested to see it myself, if you have a link.
As to insults, I don’t see how I have insulted you. I have expressed my opinion that Stalin was far more evil than the Empire is today. And you giving a cozy cute name to that monster is to me reprehensible as I consider him the most evil human, ever. Perhaps if someone showed their cute love for Hitler and his grace you would understand my perspective. I do not mean to insult you, yet I am abhorred by what you write. How may I express that without you being offended?
And you should understand that you/Russia will not create or mend any bridges with the rest of Europe if you/it continue to coddle and lionize this most despicable of tyrants.
The tyranny in this world has always originated in London, Madrid, Rome and Paris not in Moscow. The tyrants that attempted to subdue the Russian people with their crusades left their bones in the snows of Russia. You sir have sucked on the teat of Russophobia. Any Russians leader who defended his homeland was vilified and you sir have been bamboozled ever since Marx published his Das Kapital to ignore the facts. . The attack against Stalinist Russia and its Jewish political system, as Hitler saw it, was always part of Nazi foreign policy. The Moscow Pact of 1939 had served the German needs of avoiding complications of a two front war. At a secret meeting on November 5, 1937, Hitler outlined to his military leaders his plans for war and living space in the East. The choice to attack the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941 was one of necessity rather than planning. The failure of Operation Sealion and the American Lend-Lease program as well as the ability of the British navy to blockade delivery of raw materials for the German war effort forced them to look to the East for these strategic supplies.
Never mind, Elsi. Wait & see, but he’s probably a troll. Certainly not a balanced opinion w any evidence. YOUR opinion, Elsi, as always, is most welcome.
The fact that Hitler was defending Europe against Stalin is actually quite indisputable.
Pray-tell, what cave in Bariloche is this true?
Sorry bad formatting
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/1454352/Nazis-Argentine-village-hide-out-pulls-in-tourists.html
Are u a neo nazi? Your analysis on hitler’s motives is ridiculous to say the least. Soon you are going no to tell us, he massacred Jews to protect Europe.
YA MUST BE POLISH, MATE? AREN’T U? U guys are the craziest nutcases around Europe, with the Romanians. And no, no US soldier will die for either Ukrainiens nor Poland.
And right now, the evil empire is crazy US of a. Killing. Raping, torturing and killing all over.
Sweet mother Russia.
Huh? what planet was this on?
All the eastern countries got Communist governments in ELECTIONS over the 3 years following the war. THEN Stalin had some influence on them: they were joined by trade and security treaties, like the Warsaw Pact. They were not occupied or enslaved.( exception East Germany which was the “Soviet Zone” of occupation).
To suggest Stalin had intentions to invade and occupy other countries is ludicrous, surpassed only by your suggestion that Hitler invaded Russia to heroically put a stop this. You really have your history garbled beyond recognition.
In fact you sound like you’re probably from the USA. Do you even know the USSR was one of the Allies? in other words on the same side as France, Britain and the United States??? do you realise that?
Several million Poles, mostly civilians, got killed during the German occupation, so I very much doubt they’d prefer to be living under Hitler (or his heirs). The Red Army didn’t just defend Russia — they pushed the German Army out of every other country they were occupying between Russia and Germany… pretty much all of Europe.
Elections – LMAO. Yeah, sure. Stalin had “some influence”. Yeah, sure. Obviously you don’t care what the people of these “liberated” countries think but if you speak to them, despite them having been subjected to 50 years of Soviet propaganda, they will tell quite a different story.
“To suggest Stalin had intentions to invade and occupy other countries is ludicrous”. What’s ludicrous is your suggestion he didn’t. The facts are there – about his forces massed on the Western front; about the ideology of “international revolution” that was the center-piece of “Communism”; about Stalin’s support for Communist agent provocateurs throughout Europe; about his invasion of Poland, Finland, the Baltic States and Ukraine. You spread utter rubbish. You Stalinists cannot help but berate every hero who fought against the evil of Stalin and what Russia, then, stood for.
Your refusal to recognize the evils of Stalin and Communism is why Russia is on the outs with most of Europe. Europeans know quite well what Stalin / Russia / Communism was and did. But you just want to eulogize pure evil and condemn those who oppose that.
As to why Hitler invaded Russia, have you even read his speech? It is easily available. Here, let me help you: http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/hitler4.htm
“..The facts are there – about his forces massed on the Western front; … “
I see. Massing his troops inside his own country meant Stalin was attacking. Going clear across 4 other countries to get there Hitler was just being defensive. Yep, makes perfect sense. You are very obviously a USAian.
I come from one of those countries liberated by the USSR and later getting an ELECTED Communist government. You by the sound of you were not even born then. You want to lecture the people who were actually there?????
You have not answered my question do you realise the Soviet Union was on the SAME SIDE as Britain, France, USA etc? and if you do, how come, if they were so evil?
And do you realise both the Soviet Union and state Communism in Russia ceased to exist in 1991?
Have you ever heard of a leader making a fancy speech that is NOT his real reason for something? ever watch TV when Obama is on? ever watch TV when Bush was making speeches about weapons of mass destruction as “reason” for war? huh? “he made a speech so it must be true” is that how you were taught to think?
“Massing his troops inside his own country meant Stalin was attacking“. No, he wasn’t massing them there, even though that by itself could be threatening; he was massing them in the Baltic States, Poland and Ukraine.
“ Going clear across 4 other countries to get there” Funny, these “4 countries” (Poland and Ukraine, I count 2, or 1 if you consider Ukraine part of USSR, so where do you get 4?) were occupied by USSR, and, indeed, USSR did the same when they chased Germans back to Germany (but in that case crossing countries was OK, in your book, I take it? – maybe Hitler should have asked Stalin for permission to cross the Stalin-occupied Poland and Ukraine to get to the border?).
“ELECTED Communist government” Yes it’s a bit interesting how all those Warsaw Pact (and virtually all USSR) countries occupied by Stalin had an “elected Communist government” until the day USSR removed its troops (or dissolved), at which point they immediately had a non-Communist government. Really odd, eh?
Then you ask me some questions like I am a total idiot? Really?
You know there is no point discussing with you, as you live in some world to which I cannot relate at all. We’ll just agree to disagree :).
CalDre you say
“..You know there is no point discussing with you, as you live in some world to which I cannot relate at all…”
Yes. Perhaps you’d learn to relate better if you’d listen to the people who LIVED it, instead of trying to tell them what happened to them in their lives. Many of us here are from the countries we’re talking about. Our parents were there in the thick of it when these events were happening. We grew up in the aftermath. Who are you telling us who was evil or who to hate?
Ukraine, incidentally was not “invaded” by the USSR. Ukraine was put together after WW1 from the bits of 6 different countries, and became the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Together with Belarus and Russia they formed the UNION of Soviet Socialist Republics, (USSR) but were separate countries (with their own UN memberships). Your evil hateful Stalin and his successors are who BUILT UP UKRAINE into the highly industrialised and high-tech country that it was until very recently. Since independence in 1991 they’ve just gone downhill, while Russia today is vibrant and growing. But somehow some in Ukraine think the only way to grow themselves is by literally burning down their heritage.
This process is being supported and encouraged, for their own financial benefit, by the USA and EU, which have spread the kind of hatred of present-day Russia that you seem to have also fallen for. This is accompanied by the kind of rewriting of history you are also indulging in, which is why numerous national leaders are not going to Moscow this year for Victory Day, and why Poland refused entry to the Night Wolves. It has zero to do with hating Stalin. It is quite silly to going on about a man who’s been dead 61 years as if nothing’s happened since then.
“We grew up in the aftermath. Who are you telling us who was evil or who to hate?” Again, you cannot being to see the forest for the leaves. I am not telling anyone what to do – I am commenting on an article that is telling Poland what it should do or not do. I am simply explaining why Poland did what it did, take it or leave it. In terms of hatred, there is plenty coming from all sides, even in today’s world. You are just miffed that I hate someone you like – don’t pretend it’s about hated in general, because I presume you feel free to hate on Nazis or Empire or whatever you think is evil (even me :)).
Fact is all the former Warsaw Pact countries have a strong aversion to Russia, precisely because of attitude of people like you. I noticed that Abe apologized today in US Congress for its actions in WW II and the death of US soldiers. Obama too has apologized for some (though not all) of what US has done wrong. Germany has countless times for its. Maybe one day, in shallah, Russia will apologize for its crimes. But so far, Russians seem by and large to be proud of their crimes, even the ones going back 60 years.
As to Ukraine’s history, that is the Russian version, Ukrainians have quite a different one. As I lived there fora number of years, I am quite familiar with the situation. Your vision is one of the conquering empire, and I quite disagree with it. It is true Ukraine was occupied for millenia by foreign powers, and that is is run now by hopelessly corrupt oligarchs, but Ukraine is its own country with its own culture and language and they do not want to be Russia’s vassal.
“the kind of hatred of present-day Russia that you seem to have also fallen for” I don’t have much hatred for present-day Russia. But you seem to have a lot of hatred for present-day Ukraine, US and EU….?
“you feel free to hate on Nazis or Empire or whatever you think is evil (even me :)).”
To hate…(even me :))… Narcissistic little… sophomoric brain.
CalDre… California Dreaming? LOL!! Another Ukrainian scammer!!!
People here don’t hate Ukraine, boy, people here want the best in life foor the decent people of Ukraine, for the normal Human Beings in that country. And hope for a cure to that cancer that is rotting away the minds and hearts of those humans who admire Bandera, and the Nazi Regime that tolerated and even encouraged their evil deeds. You, boy, need a whole lot of education.
No fancy quoting nor convoluted speech, nor making false assumptions about entire nations and their thoughts or belief systems, gives legitimacy to your words.
From someone who has/is lived/living with decent Ukrainians for many years, and yes, even with Banderites.
One can completely cede the point that Stalin took over Eastern Europe completely against its will and this does nothing to change the fact that Hitler invaded first, and Stalin came after.
Your notion of pre-emptive warfare (again, even if one cedes the details entirely) is still no better than the United States’ rationale in pre-emptively striking Saddam. Stalin would have had a number of countries to cross before reaching Germany, just as the US is more than a stones throw from Iraq. Were troops massed after Poland and Czechoslovakia fell? Any competent general would have saw to that, regardless of political affiliation.
One does not have to think good, bad, ugly or anything about the USSR and still pay tribute to the millions upon millions of its citizens who died to defeat Nazism.
Yes, Hitler invaded first – but Stalin was far from blameless. If Hitler had not invaded, I have no doubt Stalin would have marched across Europe and conquered it all. This is a case of pre-emptive war I can wrap my head around – it would be more akin to Russia attacking millions of NATO troops massing in Belarus after NATO invaded and occupied Belarus. On the other hand Iraq posed no threat whatsoever to USA and Bush knew it. It’s even irksome to have to reply to such a flagrantly disingenuous comparison.
“Stalin would have had a number of countries to cross before reaching Germany“? What? USSR was all the way in Poland, a few hundred miles from Berlin. Maybe you should check a map again.
Hitler was very specific in his speech. He thought the element of surprise in attacking the Red Army would give the German Army a huge advantage vis-a-vis affording the USSR the time needed to complete all its preparations (including massive arming with attack planes, tanks, artillery, etc.). And undoubtedly he was right. I used to think the way you do, too, but have come to see these events from a new perspective over the years. Give mine a chance :). Look into it on your own. About “international revolution”, Communist adventurism in Europe, the Anglo-Bolshevik alliance, the massing of troops, etc.
“One does not have to think good, bad, ugly or anything about the USSR and still pay tribute to the millions upon millions of its citizens who died to defeat Nazism” Again, a very disingenuous argument. Because I can simply reverse it, as follows: One does not have to think good, bad, ugly or anything about Nazi Germany and still pay tribute to the millions upon millions of its citizens who died to defeat Stalinism. But, again, would Russia welcome Nazi bikers laying wreathes for the dead Wehrmacht?
It’s hilarious to see Russians time and again condemning the Empire for double standards, yet, when they have the chance, they have the same double standards. It shows that it is not a question of morality, but one of power. It’s actually sad for me to see, I was hoping to see in Russia the rise of a moral nation, but still you see worship of Stalin and his crimes.
” If Hitler had not invaded, I have no doubt Stalin would have marched across Europe and conquered it all” He could have he had some 3 million soldiers . Russians have NEVER get it NEVER broken a treaty that they signed with the West. We have broken many.
AS I understand it, the point of the Victory Day celebrations is not a celebration of Stalinism but a commemoration of the “last sacrifice” made by millions of Soviet soldiers and citizens in the darkest days of WW2.
To say that they asked for this because their leader was Stalin—to say that this commemoration of the sacrifices made is in fact a celebration of Stalin or a referendum on Stalin—is a pretty crazy category error. The very fact that Russia and Russians suffered appallingly under Stalin is DOUBLE the reason to celebrate and commemorate those who suffered terrible privations and fell in the defense of their country, because they suffered doubly. Many of those who fought heroically were freed from the Gulag so that they could go to the front and defend the country.
One could find a certain degree of analogy here with black Americans who performed heroically and selflessly in WW2 in the service of a racist country that had lynched and spat upon their ancestors and relatives and continued to deny their basic rights for another generation. Denigrating the soldiers and civilians who sacrificed themselves or were sacrificed in the course of the war by saying they were all fans of Stalin and their deaths are really about Stalin: That kind of trivialization and ax grinding, using these deaths as a piece in a silly Stalin game, is a huge desecration. Sacrilege. Be careful about throwing around that sort of talk that blasphemizes the dead. . . Something is watching and listening, and I don’t mean the commenters on this blog.
Katherine
Thank you Katherine. Quite right.
I don’t think the offense in Germany and Poland is caused by the desire to commemorate the defeat of Nazism, as it is the desire to cheer the victory of Stalinism.
While I also felt Poland was wrong to refuse entry to the NW, I did come to understand it when I saw the flags these NW were carrying on their bikes. They were not flags of friendship but flags of conquest and tyranny (even all of the RF flags would have been – unfortunately – provocative under current circumstances, but I am referring specifically to the slogan “For Stalin”, which I find downright offensive and which really did risk street violence).
Poland has suffered enough from Stalin and Communism. I understand why the NW were turned away. I think if there were a biker group that was respectful and did not celebrate the tyranny of Stalin, the reception would be different.
Who cares what he said that dark beast in one of his insane speeches?
Look, you, бесстыдная мальчик, stop insulting the little Spanish comrade, or I will go down and will apply you a needed corrective.
TO SAKER MODERATOR: [MOD: removed as requested. Have a second look at the name involved. It’s an “evilness” joke.]
:)
I’ll have to figure you are a nazi supporter (by your statements) or a Western revisionist Russophobe.I really don’t care which of the two.They are pretty much the same to me.But your twisting of history does rile me a bit.The nazis had a strict “racial” (today we would say ethnic) hierarchy for Europe in their ideology.So-called Aryan Germans were at the top of it.Other Germanic peoples just below.Latin peoples,below those.(others like the Celts,Finns,Albanians,Basque,Greeks,came,depending on the peoples under the “Germanic” or “Latin” categories) And near the bottom were Slavs,just above Jews and Gypsies.The nazi plan for the bottom two was to murder them all,yes all,men, women. and children.For the Slavs,they divided them into “usable” Slavs and the majority.They considered in their twisted minds,that Czechs,Slovaks,Slovenes.Croats,Bosniaks,Bulgars,and the tiny sub-Slavic groups like,Silesian and Kashub Poles,and German Sorbs.Were either not really Slavs or at least so mixed with “Germanic blood” or culture as to be assimilated (after “culling” ie murdering the least “desirable” among them.As for the Poles,Serbs (including Montenegrin Serbs),they were to be either killed,or driven out to Russia (unless they could prove having any Germanic ancestry,not an easy chore).The Rus peoples,baring a few “Germanic looking ones,or having “any” Germanic blood” or ones especially loyal to them (ie Bandera and some Cossacks) were considered too “Jewish” influenced,and a “mongrel race” and were marked for death,enslavement,or being driven beyond the Urals into Asia.And Europe “cleansed” of them all.That was the nazi “vision” for Europe.If you think that was something you find worthy of supporting then you would fit right into those days and among today’s Ukrainian Bandera.The communists for all their faults,were nothing like that in evil.There is a saying “the communists wanted your mind (to convert you to communist ideology),the nazis wanted your life”.
As to Eastern Europe.Besides the more than obvious fact that the Red Army saved the peoples mentioned above from the fate the nazis planned for them.They also eliminated the dictatorships that every country in Eastern Europe was ruled by at the time (minus Czechoslovakia,the one democracy in the region).Many “Westerners” seem to want to forget,if they are even studied enough to know.That those countries were dirt poor dictatorships,before the Soviets liberated them.And that Slovakia,Croatia,Hungary,Romania,and Bulgaria, among them were allied to nazi Germany.So they were enemy states in that war.But instead of exacting full retribution for that.The Soviets considered them as victims of the nazis. And saw them as being liberated not “conquered”.
Every one of those countries had a large “socialist” movement before the war.And some large communist movements as well (several of them underground).So when the Soviets liberated them there was quite a bit of local support for them,that varied by country.Those more pro-nazi or historically anti-Russian the least.Those more pro-Russian from history the most.Were they the majority in any country? Its doubtful,but difficult to say.Most people in any country are “non-political”.And there are many factors that come into play in gaining support.In those countries,(almost all with heavy peasant majorities) where “collectivization” came in.You saw a larger anti-communist bias.Those that divided the land among the peasants instead,less anti-communism.The anti-religious policy of those new governments also alienated many people.While it also attracted a few,especially from religious minorities.Those with socialist ideas became supporters of the new governments.Those loyal to the old regimes,or more Westernized,opposed the new governments.That is the way it works during all social revolutions.The propaganda we are fed in the West only reports on the one side.So we don’t ask ourselves how those governments stayed in power.Soviet troops were never enough to control a huge population.Especially if they revolted in mass against them.The obvious answer,that the West hides,is that those new communist governments had a lot of local support to stay in power.A Gallup poll a very few years ago asked people in the ex-USSR states if life was better during the USSR or today for their countries.Over 60% overall said during the USSR,including 56% in Ukraine,and 55% in Russia.That alone should be an eye opener to the truth.But most in the West don’t question their biases.And from your posts,I see some even here don’t either.
“I’ll have to figure you … a nazi supporter … or a Western revisionist Russophobe.” Wrong on both counts, but what need is there to place your simplistic labels on people? On the other hand you strike me like a Stalinist / Communist.
As to your comments about Nazis and their alleged awful treatment of “Untermenschen”, it is interesting to me that the Nazis treated them better than Stalin did. Indeed, you admit yourself that Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, etc. were allied with Germany and were deathly afraid of USSR. It’s so easy to miss the forest when you are so very busy looking at leaves, no? Sure life under Hitler would not have been wonderful for people, but the question is whether Stalin was better? And to that, the answer is “nyet”.
And ethnicity played a huge role in USSR as well. Just ask Tatars, and countless other groups that were “resetllted” or entirely eliminated. What you are doing is typical Stalinist propaganda: exaggerate the crimes of the “enemy” and whitewash the crimes of Communism / Bolshevism / Leninism / Stalinism.
Hitler’s biggest gripe against Slavs was that they were (as he saw it) slaves of the Jews (whom he held responsible for Communism). Nazi Germany had a supremacist streak but not so different from every other empire. You think the Romans, British or Ottomans all thought their conquered territories were equal to their own? Americans don’t think so today. Neither do Russians.
As to your extermination claims, they are just pure fabrication. Largely based on the propaganda of Stalin and, of course, the other Allie victors of the war. Indeed the Slavs found ways to exterminate far more Slavs than the Germans even dreamed of. Because they thought these Slavs were “worthless” or “inferior” or “untermenschen”.
“the Red Army saved the peoples mentioned above from the fate the nazis planned for them.They also eliminated the dictatorships that every country in Eastern Europe was ruled by at the time” That’s rich. The USSR enslaved them all under Stalin’s totalitarian dictatorship. There was no liberation whatsoever. Of course, liberation was possible – after defeating Germany, USSR could have pulled back, but when a dark monster like Stalin is in charge, it inevitably will not happen.
…
As to the Gallup poll, there are two caveats for that. First is, the breakup of the USSR was done in a most abysmal manner, bringing about the worst of capitalism. Second, by 1990, the situation was far better than it has been under Stalin. But if this poll is to be taken seriously, then I wonder: why is not Russia communist? It takes only one election to make it so. So let me take this poll with a grain of “nostalgia” and not signifying actual opinions about Communism. In this regard I would also note that state propaganda is typically still favorable to Communism – certainly in Russia it is. (And I doubt the numbers in Ukraine are the same as they were then.)
You can live in Communist misery all you want, I wish all you Communists would gather somewhere in live in your Communist utopia/dystopia and see what you can do with it. But even Israel has had to give up on the kibbutz, because as long as there is work to be done, Communism does not work. I am not a fan of unbridled capitalism but I’ll be damned if I’ll every worship the State or its rulers.
This is a graph of what the Gallup polls are showing.
Population pyramids for 3 former Soviet states. The numbers on the left of each graph as the ages of the people today. See the HUGE narrowing for ages at the 20 – 30 years ago mark on all of them. NO BABIES BEING BORN. People could afford them under Communism, suddenly could not afford them under the new western “democratic market economy”. They were not rich back then, but everybody had a job and there was free schooling and medical, land free childcare for working mothers.
There was totalitarianism” but it was the same for (nearly) everybody, and it was how they ordered things to look after everyone. Then came dog eat dog, profit before people. No wonder many are nostalgic..
http://populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2015/
http://populationpyramid.net/ukraine/2015/
http://populationpyramid.net/poland/2015/
Look also how the male side (at the top, the old people) is half the width of the female side…. that’s the 12 million killed in the war.
Another one living in an alternative universe — American, I suppose, who knows nothing about communism. Your post borders on simple trolling.
Which begs the question of why it is permitted?
When Germany fell a million Germans starved in the Western Zones because Eisenhower refused to provide aid. No one died in the Eastern zone because the Soviets fed the people.
The soviets conquered Eastern Europe, didn’t liberate it.
http://enc.tfode.com/Soviet_occupations
There is no such thing as Eastern Europe to conquer. It is an imaginary concept of the transaltntic Fourth Reich provenance.
@ Roobit
Maybe now there isn’t, but it was then.
CalDre has his own version of history.
I provided you an analysis as to why Hitler invaded USSR. As to Stalin being a internationalist is total rubbish just like the rest of your post. Trotsky was the internationalist while Stalin was a nationalist.. . Speaking of agents maybe a bit of education is needed here http://newcoldwar.org/seven-decades-of-nazi-collaboration-americas-dirty-little-ukraine-secret/
Maybe also you need to read Operation Gladio and you will then know what paid agents are all about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHXjO8wHsA
Stalin was not prepared for war with Germany as his weapons proved inadequate in the Spanish Civil War so he signed the “Russo German Non Aggression Pact and in the process USSR took back territories from Poland that were lost in the Civil War in the 1920’s. He took back the Baltic states which were taken from Russia in the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. In fact the Baltic states were more Nazi than the Nazis in Berlin so Stalin chose to neutralize them. Some of the worst atrocities of WWII were committed in the Baltic states against Jews and Russians alike.
When Germany invades in 1941 Russo German Non Aggression Pact was broken. Germany invaded with a European Army of 3 million, just like Napoleon, just that the number of invaders were different. Most westerners like you who get their history from Hollywood think that Private Ryan did all the bleeding when we know that it was private Ivan since 90% of German Effort was on the Russian Front. Over 22 Million Soviet soldiers died on their way to Berlin, and over 80% of European Russia infrastructure was lost. Its under the flag that Nochni Volkovi carry that Russian people died in their thousands to get rid of the vermin in Europe that now infests Kiev.
Stalin made a deal with the allies over the spheres of influence in the occupied territories after the fall of Nazi Germany. The Allies didn’t give Russia any say in their sphere in Western Europe so Russia refuses to give them a say in Eastern Europe. The truth about Stalin in the West was never the truth even though he did kill many people and for that he was used in the same way as Hussein, Kaddafi, and Milosevic to justify our actions in Asia, Africa and the Americas.
Now we come to Vladimir who was a KGB agent in his other life, a counterpart of George Bush Senior who was a CIA agent. Is a former KGB agent more evil than former CIA agent George Bush Sr.? The western Media says so, so it must be true for people like you even though we know that they seldom tell the truth. So what is so bad about good old Vlad? Well he replaced Yeltsin who replaced Gorbachev, one a drunk and the other one an American plant who most Russians saw as a windbag and a US yes man. Both Yeltsin and Gorbachev wanted to give Russia to the west but Vladimir (Ruler of the world) had other ideas which the NATO countries did not like.
Putin puts the brakes on the giveaway, and the West no longer has their boy in Moscow. Putin attempts to create a new union, a Customs Union to challenge this American expansion. Russia under Putin challenged the West militarily and economically which did not go well with the Empire. Putin told the Russian people that they must build their own industrial base and move away from resource dependency. Putin’s challenges the West in other ways as well as he encouraged the formation of the BRICK nations which would challenge the Petro Dollar domination of energy and stop the NATO participation in Regime Change which was America’s way of expanding her global domination. The Media uses God, Country and King to justify this regime change
In the West merely controlling the mainstream media is enough to define what is true, not true, what happened and didn’t happen? CalDre our Media forget to tell us that Ukraine has become a country where suicide is the favorite method the Kiev Nazis use against those opposing the crimes that are being done in their name in Kiev. The West writes the history, while the conformity is society’s most powerful control mechanism. Those who don’t go along to get along can pay a very heavy price. Just ask Malcolm X, JFK, RFK, MLK and many other like Allends, Mandela, Milosevic, Hussein, Kaddafi and so on knew this but they ignored it to fight another day. As the Serbian saying goes “није важно колико је бројнији непријатељ, важна је светиња која се брани” –It is not important how more numerous the enemy the important thing is the truth that is being defended. You sir or madam don’t know the truth.
Your twisted opinions are truly mind boggling. Auswitz would have been a fairer deal for the polish than the Soviet rule, according to you? Are you sick in the head or drowning in russophobia?
These “occupied” countries enjoyed a much higher standard of living that the citizens of the USSR. Read this – der spiegel is not exactly a pro-russian publication. Might knock some sense into you.
http://m.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-634122.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=https://www.google.it/
yes yes, we did get elections. and communists did win by a big margin. but when we wanted to soften the regime a little bit, all we got were tanks in pragues old square and foreign soldiers all over the place. . . seems legit
Im not saying, that i agree with caldre (def. not with hitler=liberator of europe against communists)
But i def. also do not agree with your view of the post war situation in, at least central europe since i lived and still live there myself and in fact do know what it was like from my parents and even grandparents.
“In fact they would have much preferred living under Hitler than Stalin.”
Yup, ’bout wraps it up in a nice little bow, right there. Not to even get into the preemptive invasion theory of yours (Dubbya would have been proud, eh?) but this is too rich. The ” untermensch” Poles, Slavs, Bulgars, etc would have frolicked with their Aryan overlords through fields of wheat and pansies, you say?
The dissidents, communists, Jews and handicapped would be prosperous under Herr Hitler, you say? Of course! What reason could possibly exist to doubt that?
All victorious powers in WWII have, up til now, kept V-E Day celebrations more or less off limits to political grandstanding. It is the West that is changing that. If you choose to deny that, well, your powers of delusion are stronger than most.
“Not to even get into the preemptive invasion theory of yours (Dubbya would have been proud, eh?) but this is too rich.”.
I hardly think Russia is one to complain about invasion on a moral basis. How do you think Russia got to be it’s size in the span of one century, if not by brute conquest? And to try to compare the threat posed to Germany by USSR (and its Communist agents inside Germany and Europe) to Iraq’s threat to US is beyond ludicrous – it’s not even genuine. Anyway whether or not you believe there was a proper role before WW II for preemptive war, my point was that Stalin brought the war onto Russia by his actions. That makes it triply stupid for Stalinists to support him – and the only reason you can is by denying history and his direct responsibility for the outbreak of the war. Only by so re-writing history can you portray him as some “savior”, even though even in that case it is a most twisted interpretation.
To Stalin, all humans were “Untermenschen” – none had any rights, any dignity, all were to be his slaves. Germans themselves did not fare that well under Hitler. But what I find striking about Poland is Hitler riding in his open-air car through downtown Warsaw in 1939. And I also find remarkable how Poles like Germans so much more than Russians. Isn’t that odd if your theory about Nazis being so evil to Poles is true? Isn’t it odd that basically all of Eastern Europe would rather be with Germany than with Russia? Maybe it is because your understanding is just so untrue? And the fact that you go on gushing over how great Stalin was continues to make enemies every time you repeat it? Does common sense mean anything to you?
And do you think the dissidents, handicapped, fascists and Jews prospered under Stalin? LMAO.
And to try to compare the threat posed to Germany by USSR (and its Communist agents inside Germany and Europe) to Iraq’s threat to US is beyond ludicrous – it’s not even genuine.
Seeing as your the one going against the grain here, I’d sure like some more details to back that up.
Germans themselves did not fare that well under Hitler.
But the untermenschen would have faired better? Or any of the Ayrans in Eastern Europe?
And the fact that you go on gushing over how great Stalin was continues to make enemies every time you repeat it? Does common sense mean anything to you?
Actually, I’m not a fan of Stalin. Please show me where I’ve said anything to the contrary.
And do you think the dissidents, handicapped, fascists and Jews prospered under Stalin? LMAO.
The dissidents and fascists? No. The Jews and handicapped? LMAO
what do your long and tiresome speeches have to do with a private motorcycle club traveling across Europe? These motorcyclists weren’t going to occupy or take over anything.
Did you notice the “lack” of any Poles in the streets when Hitler rode through Warsaw.There was a reason for that.
” … But what I find striking about Poland is Hitler riding in his open-air car through downtown Warsaw in 1939 …”
Yep it’s true, Hitler did ride through downtown Warsaw in 1939 … October 1939, that is, a month after Germany invaded Poland, and when Warsaw was in ruins … it certainly was “down town” all the way for Warsaw at the time.
Excerpt from Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, dated 6 October1939:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=19391006&id=wZBRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=z2kDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5488,4347081&hl=en
If Poles these days like Germans much more than they like Russians, that must be because being part of the EU, they (the Poles, that is) have visa-free travel through the Schengen zone so as to escape unemployment and poverty in their particular parts of Poland outside Warsaw and other main cities. If they had not this privilege, I doubt most Poles would like Germany very much. Ditto for the rest of eastern Europe that has joined the EU.
Did Stalin bring war on himself? – isn’t someone forgetting something called the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact that Germany and the USSR signed in 1939 in which both pledged not to go to war against each other?
“Hitler did ride through downtown Warsaw in 1939 … when Warsaw was in ruins”
It wasn’t that ruined – most of the damage was done later. Could you imagine Putin in an open-air car and walking around downtown Kiev, or Obama in Damascus, even with “bayonets” holding Ukrainians one block away?
“Excerpt from Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, dated 6 October1939:” Oooh, old war propaganda. If you look at actual photographs from the time you will see the claim about ruins is a lie (the newspaper did not publish any pictures). There were many more battles which ruined Warsaw, including the 1944 uprising and the Soviet invasion.
Your claim that Poles prefer Germans because they can go to Germany? Golly gee. They can also go to Russia. I’ve been to Poland many times. And you are just plain wrong – Poles hate Russians for the occupation (centuries of war between the empires also does not help). Even about the so-called “poverty outside Warsaw and other main cities” – I have driven though Poland and not seen this poverty. Indeed Poland countryside is quite nice! You are thinking about Ukraine and Russia? There the villages are very poor, indeed.
“Did Stalin bring war on himself? – isn’t someone forgetting something called the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact“. Good one. Stalin’s signature means nothing. And most Stalinists will proudly boast on that, for example, when they defend Stalin’s invasion of Manchuria. Or the countless other treaties he violated when it suited. You really think a piece of paper – an agreement with Nazi Hitler above all – would have prevented Stalin from rolling through Europe when he was good and ready? Because he was, what, such an honorable man?
Caldre, you are an Ukrainian. An Ukrainian nationalist and propagandist. So please don’t speak for the Poles. You either don’t know the history, or you lie. Or both.
Poles hate Russians? Why you don’t mention the numerous Polish bikers, who came to the border crossing in Terespol to welcome the Night Wolves, to help and escort them on their way? Just as Night Wolves helped and accompanied them earlier on their yearly rides to Russia, to commemorate the Katyn massacre?
Poles hate Russians? Yes, some certainly do. But more and more of them are now aware of the constant media manipulation, constant hateful propaganda against Russia and Russians in Polish (foreign owned) newspapers . And those, who hate, were recently suddenly silenced by the news, that these terrible Night Wolves went to pay their hommage to the Polish victims to Katyn and to Auschwitz.
I’ll tell you, whom the Polish people really hate: the OUN and UPA – murderers, who massacred Polish defenceless village population in southeastern Poland under German occupation. Whole Polish villages were razed to the ground, old people and women murdered in the cruellest possible way, dismembered, burned alive. babies nailed hanging on doors… The photos of victims may return in nightmares. All that because OUN and UPA hoped – by serving Hitler – to get their Lebensraum, free of other nationalities, where the population was mixed since centuries.
And yes, UPA took also part in destroying Warsaw in 1944. You lie about Russians conquering the city, hoping your readers don’t know the facts. When the Russians came, January 1945, there was no city to conquer. Warsaw was a dead sea of ruins. All inhabitants perished (200 000) or got expelled by Germans after the defeat of the uprising 1944. Hitler ordered then to erase the city form the surface of earth, house after house – if not bombed before – was destroyed with explosives and burned. The inhabitants had to leave their homes immediately, taking with them only the most necessary things. Some couldn’t take anything, since they had to carry small children or a bedridden mother.
And yes, just this unhappy, panicked crowd, was rushed on by the Ukrainians from the Dirlewanger Einheit. The Ukrainians were the worst, as all Poles remember – worse even than the German SS. They sadistically beat people, robbed them of their last belongings, raped women, put eyes out.
So please, speak for the Ukrainians. Don’t open your mouth on behalf of the Poles.
.
There was a discussion just yesterday about people who claim to be experts about countries they have never even visited.
Longwinded would be an understatement.
So many words, so little content.
Boorish !
By defeating others that attacked her ” Russia got to be it’s size in the span of one century, if not by brute conquest?” It took a 1000 years though not 100.
In the seige of Leningrad (the longest in history), the German army was ordered to refuse any white flag. There was no place for any Slavs in the future of the Third Reich.
Your choice was to be dead or “read”.
Stalin’s communists tried to justify their “dictatorship by the proletariat” by appealing to their political arguments before reaching for their guns, which meant you had a higher probability of living under Stalin than Hitler.
The aftermath of WWII or the “Great Patriotic War” was telling. Stalin resettled millions of people into the Ukraine (yes, Russian speakers) to work the arable land so that people would have something to eat. The Soviet military did an admirable job of feeding millions of people throughout Eastern Europe and occupied Germany. This is part of the controversy of the Ukraine’s civil war of today…
The Ukrainian nationalists saw this as a rather unwelcome act, despite the losses of millions of people during the aftermath of the revolution, the collectivization of farmlands, the invasion of the German Wehrmacht and the counter-offensive of the Soviets.
The Ukraine at one point represented 20% of world grain exports. That is a lot of people starving if the fields remained unworked. Ukrainian nationalists and other critical commentators have nothing to say on this.
Did Stalin move out populations and murder opponents? Certainly. They threatened the food supply.
Many farmers in the Ukraine protested by killing their draft animals as well as destroying food supplies so they would not fall into the hands of the collectivizing Soviet government in the early 1930s. You only need to google farm animal statistics for 1932 and onwards to see the size of the debacle…
CalDre, it seems obvious to me that you are getting some kicks out of this, so I think we should all stop responding to your obvious provocations. You contradict yourself several times throughout your comments and therefore I think that all of us should should just leave you to your own delusions.
You live in an alternative universe.
This comment is total BS a lie because you either don’t care about truth or you just don’t know the truth and you try to pass falsehood for the truth. BS artists do that since they do not really care about the truthfulness of their statements – they just make assertions to impress, while disguising their real agenda. Britain France and the United States did everything to get the Nazis to attack the Soviet Union. They ignored Russian attempts -Litvinov proposals to have a united front against the most vile political system that you seem to salute. The Nazi attack against the Soviet Union was a Western European crusade against the Russian people just like many others before . Hitler’s Army was a European army consisting of Dutch, French, Spanish, Austrian, Hungarian, Poles, Slovaks, Romanian , Croats , Balts just like Napoleon’s Army in 1812. As far as WWII is concerned your competent indicates total ignorance of the facts.
The Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact, signed in 1939, was part of German foreign policy calculated to avoid a two front war and serve the strategic, political and economic interest of the Third Reich. Hitler’s dislike of communism and the Slavic people made him believed that the Soviet society was rotten to the core and all that was needed was to “kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down” (Keegan, 8). To this end, on December 18th 1940, he issued a secret document #21 called ‘Operation Barbarossa’, a plan for the invasion of the Soviet Union, which was to start on May 15, 1941. However, military and political events of 1940 led to the postponement of this date and German invasion of the Soviet Union did not start until the summer of 1941.
In mid-August 1939, the German foreign minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop, succeeded in securing a 10-year treaty of non-aggression with the Soviet Union. This treaty provided the Nazis and the Soviets an opportunity to establish their spheres of influence in Central Europe. For the Soviets the treaty was more of an anti British and anti French action as they did not trust these two nations since they felt they were appeasing Hitler and preparing him for an attack against the Soviet Union. Hitler stated in 1925 in Mien Kampf that an alliance with Russia “would give Germany a chance to make quite calmly those preparations which, one way or another, must be undertaken within the bounds of such a coalition for a reckoning with France” (Hitler, 964). Furthermore, after the German attack on Poland, historian Allen Clark writes that Hitler during a debriefing of his generals stated that the Russo-German Non Aggressing Pact “was meant only to stall for time, and, gentlemen, to Russia will happen just what I have practicesed with Poland—we will crush the Soviet Union” (Alan Clark, 25). The treaty for the Germans, for the time being, neutralizes the threat from the East. Nevertheless, the treaty did not eliminate the mistrust between the Nazis and the Soviets. Both nations continued with their military and political objectives and the spirit of the treaty was ignored. Their actions in many cases were done without consultation and in some cases in contravention of the treaty. For example, the Anti Comintern Pact between Germany, Italy and Japan concerned the Soviets as they were now faced with an enemy in the East. On the other hand, the Soviet invasion of the Baltic States and Finland concerned the Germans. The treaty did not solve the history of mistrust between these two nations; it only forestalled the inevitable conflict.
More importantly, Germany was assured of no immediate danger form the East and no repetition of a two front war like in 1914. The Nazi-Soviet Pact allowed Hitler to completed plans to conquer Poland and then to capture the rest of Europe nation by nation. After the fall of Poland Germany turned her attention to Western Europe and by 1940 they successfully controlled Norway, Denmark, the Low Countries and France. Britain remained defiant and Germany feared that with America passing the Lend-Lease Act supplies of goods for Britain, would lead to strengthening of Britain’s ability to resist and even challenge Germany. The Nazis needed to counterbalance America’s economic contribution to Britain with resources from the Soviet Union.
Since the British navy was able to blockade and stop deliveries of strategic goods from reaching Germany the lands to the East were needed for the German war effort. According to historian Alexander Werth “the British blockade had deprived it of many of its customary sources of supply” that were needed for the Germany’s war industries ( Werth, 112). Therefore, Germany needed food from the Ukrainian wheat fields and oil from the Caucasus. Even as early as 1937 according to the Hossbach Document of November 5, 1937 Hitler stated that “from the Slavic lands to the East, Germany wanted to obtain Lebensraum or living space for the German people. If the Fuehrer is still living, then it will be his irrevo¬cable decision to solve the German space problem no later than 1943-45” (hossbach Document). Failure of Operation Sealion, the invasion of Britain in 1940, forced a re-evaluation of German Eastern policy. Hitler stated December 18th 1940 “the German armed forces must be prepared to crush Soviet Russia in a quick campaign before the end of the war with Britain” (Flower Reeves, 205). Furthermore, he stated in the same address that “for the Eastern campaign the air force will have to free such strong forces for the support of the army” however this was not possible in 1940 since Germany suffered heavy air losses in the Battle of Britain” (Flower Reeves, 205). Therefore, military as well as economic needs pushed the Nazis to deal with the ‘sub-human’ Slavs and their Jewish political system sooner than they planned.
Hitler wanted to destroy Communism, which he associated with a Jewish conspiracy for world domination. He states in Mein Kampf “Marxism itself plans to transmit the world systematically into the hands of Jewry” (Hitler, 579). The Nazi belief that the Slavic people were ‘unsermench” or ‘sub-human’, fit only to work for German industry and Empire. With the German male population fighting on three fronts laborers were needed to maintain production of food and war materials.
The German political thinking, with most of Europe and Russia under their control, Germany would be able to ignore Britain and the USA and would be able to launch attacks on Africa and the Middle East. Furthermore, the conquest of Russia would provide a link with his ally Japan. German strategy was to destroy Russia and enslave its people. Hitler’s orders to his commanders stated that the war in the East would “be a struggle of ideologies and racial differences and would have to be waged with unprecedented, unmerciful, and unrelenting harshness” (Chambers, 531).
Hitler’s order, “Barbarossa,” was ready, in December and the original invasion date was set for May 15th 1941, however, this date “was postponed, in part because of bad weather and in part in order that the Greek and Yugoslav complications might be settled” (Chambers, 529). Russian as well as British agents encouraged Yugoslav resistance to Germany. The Serbian students in Belgrade rebelled against Prince Paul and replaced him with King Peter who refused to let the German troops pass through Yugoslavia in order to assist Mussolini with his Greek campaign. A month passed while the Yugoslav and Greek situation was pacified. Chester Wilmot supports this view when he writes that Blumentritt the Chief of Staff of the Fourth Army in Poland stated, “the friction in the Balkans and the exceptional weather caused the loss of four precious weeks” and forced a postponement of operation Barbarossa until the end of June. (Wilmot, 77) Over two hundred thousand German troops remained in the Balkans and the battle plans for the Eastern campaign had to be modified and “Barbarossa” was postponed to June the 22nd. On June 22, 1941, the Nazi blitzkrieg overran the East Polish territory, the former Baltic provinces, and pushed deep into Russia.
Nazi desire for Lebensraum in the Slavic lands to the East were part of Hitler’s plans for world domination. In Mein Kampf Hitler expressed the German need for living space and his contempt for the sub-human Slavs. Therefore the attack against Stalinist Russia and its Jewish political system was always part of Nazi foreign policy. The Moscow Pact of 1939 had served the German needs of avoiding complications of a two front war. At a secret meeting on November 5, 1937, Hitler outlined to his military leaders his plans for war and living space in the East. The choice to attack the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941 was one of necessity rather than planning. The failure of Operation Sealion and the American Lend-Lease program as well as the ability of the British navy to blockade delivery of raw materials for the German war effort forced them to look to the East for these strategic supplies. Unforeseen events in the Balkans forced a month delay of the German invasion of the Soviet Union, which was originally planned for May 15, 1941. This delay, many historians suggest, was in part responsible for the failure of Operation Barbarossa.
Вопрос к модераторам: как вы вообще допустили этот мерзкий комментарий? Лживое перевирание истории и сравнение коммунистов и нацистов – это просто плевок во всех русских.
Мы позволяем остальные ответы, чтобы объяснить, почему комментарий неправильно, и мерзкое. Это учит тех, кто читает это в будущем.
Если мы просто удалить комментарий, гораздо больше людей будут продолжать верить, что это правда.
Я понял, спасибо за ответ.
Up to a point, and yet the repetition of a lie (‘the big lie’) often enough may confirm or reinforce it, to make it memorable and frame the discussion. Better perhaps to simple state that communism is anti-fascist, which is true, with the workers running the businesses, in control of the means of production, and of the disposition of goods and earnings. That’s what made the USSR fail in communism while becoming more just oligarchical state capitalism. They missed a central point of the communist paradigm.
http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/12401-george-lakoff-progressives-need-to-use-language-that-reflects-moral-values#
…
George Lakoff: They’ve been working at it for over three decades. They understand the importance of morally-based framing, the importance of language, the importance of repeating language, the importance of not using the opposition’s language, and the importance of an extensive communication system that operates daily everywhere, election or no election.
…
They used two moral frames: freedom and life, with the slogans “government takeover” and “death panels.” They repeated these slogans over and over, until their moral framing came to dominate the public discourse.
…
Define “totalitarian state”. Does the US/EU totalitarian state with their endless NSA/GCHQ etc. spying and persecution of dissidents not meet the definition? In fact the word “totalitarian” is a propaganda term invented by Zbigniew Brzezinski during the Cold War in order to equate communism with fascism. This was designed to fit the US official narrative that it was they who “defeated the Nazis” and now there was a new evil system which also needed to be defeated by America. This completely ignored that it was their communist allies under Stalin who had done 80% of the fighting to win “the Good War”. An honest evaluation of WW2 during the Cold War would have forced Americans to question why their Government had allied with the evil commies and helped Stalin to win if Stalin was actually just as bad as Hitler. In order to avoid this they wrote the Soviet involvement in WW2 out of history and invented the myth that it was the Americans and the British who won the war.
Is not every country that was occupied by the US not still under their control and their imposed capitalist political system today? (Not to mention the former Warsaw Pact countries who are all under NATO occupation today). In fact Germany, Italy and Japan (the 3 axis countries which they invaded in WW2) are all still under US occupation. Given that Germany and Italy never attacked America and that Germany, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria invaded Russia in WW2 and WW1 was it not more justified that they wanted to occupy these countries to prevent them from invading Russia again? Especially considering they had over 25 million of their people killed in the last attack? Certainly the Russian occupation of Europe was more justified than the American one. Yet the American one continues, 25 years after the Russians voluntarily pulled out.
Also, the Americans have now moved into all the former Warsaw Pact states, 3 former Soviet Republics and forced them under their totalitarian political system (the EU) and American military occupation through NATO. It’s also important to note that if it wasn’t for the sacrifice of those Soviet soldiers, Poland and many of the other Eastern European countries wouldn’t exist. David Irving’s excellent biography of Hitler admits that he intended to eliminate Poland as a country or, at best, give the Poles a small section of their country East of Warsaw. The rest would become part of Germany and Germans would be brought in to replace the Poles.
You seem to be under the illusion that Poland and other European countries have independence; – they do not (possibly with the exception of Switzerland). Virtually all of Europe including my own country, Ireland, is under the tyrannical control of the US through the EU. Virtually every other EU state is also a member of NATO. These countries are under just as much foreign control as the Warsaw Pact communist states were. The only difference is they swapped one foreign master for another. When “the Polish Government” does something, it does not do it because it’s responding to the will of the Polish people, it does it because it has been told to do it by the US Government. A good recent example was the announcement by the Czech President that he would attend the Victory Parade in Moscow (the US regime had instructed all European leaders to boycott the event). He immediately came under a wave of criticism and threats from US Government officials and media and quickly recanted. This is how conformity is enforced. Either you do what they tell you, or they’ll get rid of you and put someone in charge who will (Milosevic, Papadopoulos, Berlusconi, Yanukovych etc.) It’s not really any different than how the Warsaw Pact countries were controlled by the Soviet Government.
When Veritas refers to “ingrates”, he is pointing out the fact that Poland would not exist if it were not for the sacrifice of these Soviet soldiers. It has nothing to do with Stalin. I agree it would be offensive to Germans to drive through Berlin celebrating victory against them. But you have to remember: under US occupation the position of the German regime is that Germany deserved to be defeated and the Nazis were the most evil regime in history. WW2 was “the Good War”. I think it’s far more offensive that Germany is still under American and British military occupation decades after the Russians voluntarily pulled out. Any genuine German patriot should be far more concerned with this than a biker parade.
The strategy of the US regime is again to try and equate communism with fascism, and both with modern Russia. Thus we see US brainwashed idiots referring to President Putin as a “fascist KGB thug”! They say that Nazi collaborators in Eastern Europe were actually good people who were merely fighting against communism, whereas Nazi collaborators in Western Europe were the epitome of evil. They draw attention to Soviet war crimes and use them to draw comparisons to the Nazis, while ignoring their own massive crimes and continuing the myth that they fought “the Good War”. Recent articles in the British media on their mass murder in Dresden actually blamed the Germans for it and said they brought it on themselves. It completely whitewashed British responsibility for one of the greatest war crimes of WW2. Don’t expect any revisionism over America dropping nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki either. Instead you’ll hear about German expulsions from Eastern Europe, and the mass rapes of the Red Army. Of course back when all this was actually happening the Jewish-US media were the biggest supporters of Uncle Joe and his “Red Hordes”. The history will be changed to suit the current Zionist narrative. Welcome to the Zionist-occupied Western World…
Revisionism much?
Anyway, here’s a small reminder.
U should learn a thing or 2 about Hitler and Ww2. U sound totally out of it. Under hitler’s plan, Poland would have been eradicated and it’s people killed. Get it?
simply ask the german and polish government officially to apologize for disbehaviour with regard to them.
If they don´t, simply prohibit the german and polish airlines to fly over Russia for 30 days.Let´s see what Lufthansa has to say.
Actually an excellent idea.I doubt though Russia will do that to their “pardners and colleagues”.Though they should in a heartbeat.
There’s no reason to be upset with Polaks &Germs for not allowing Russian bikers entries. That’s what enemies do to those whom they regard as enemies.
It’s simple as that.
Anyone can expect only bad from an enemy. It cannot be otherwise.
So they do , what they suppose to do.
The Ruskis have to accept that and stop playing niceties with they “western partners”.
Face the musik and hit the table with a fist so all the options fall off.
They should remember also a Gypsy saying: “If are considered to be a thiev by others, even if you are not, so act like a thiev. ” That can be applyed to accusation of Russian troops being in Novorossiya. Don’t play cat and mice game with sharks.
So true. In a way this has been a boon to the EU plutocrats, to better hide what they’re doing to rob the Greeks, the Irish and anyone but a banker for some time now. The sooner the EU collapses the better.
The DNR authorities have expelled 8 foreign representatives from the International Rescue Committee associated with USAID.
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201504292112-xv8m.htm
By default, I would assumae anyone associated with USAID present in Novorossia would be up to no good.
The whole affair is having a boomerang effect, there is a video of the Polish biker processions, it is huge! They have taken up the gauntlet thrown down by the EU scaredy cats, the bureaucrats by denying the Russians through the border. Now it remains to the same the response of the Czech, Slovak and German bikers to this affront to liberty.
I would take you seriously if you were equally supportive of the right of German Nazi bikers to ride through Russia with Swatiska flags on their bikes to commemorate German war dead.
As it stands Russia gets extremely offended when WW II veterans who fought a/g Stalinism commemorate their own actions in their own countries. Thus Russia is hardly one to lecture others on tolerance. I wish I could believe in your fairy tale of Russian heroes defending Europe from evil Nazis but I would point out that it was evil Communism that led to rise of Nazism and that it was Communism’s call for “international revolution”, Communist agitation in all of Europe, and Stalin massing the Red Army on the Western frontier that led to the war. I.e., if truth be told, it was Stalin that was responsible for the war much more so than Hitler.
Hitler, in his mind (and you can read his speech to the Reichstag that commenced Operation Barbarrossa), was defending all of Europe from descending into the totalitarian atheist hell of Stalinism / Communism.
Sometimes “re-writing history” is “correcting falsified history”. It happened in the US, too. There was a famous book at the center of it – “A People’s History of the United States”. Russia desperately needs a book like that.
They are commemorating the VICTORY.
Had Germany defeated Russia, it would be totally acceptable for German bikers to go to Moscow to lay flowers on German war graves. However as this didn’t happen, we’ll never find out how Russia would react.
This statement
“As it stands Russia gets extremely offended when WW II veterans who fought a/g Stalinism commemorate their own actions in their own countries.”
It would be a good idea for you to bring some evidence of. To my knowledge Russia has never interfered in or objected to any other country commemorating their war dread.
Well I am nearing my 10-comment limit so while I am enjoying the discussion :) I expect to be blocked from continuing it soon.
The “Victory” you speak of was not a “victory” for Poland or Germany so of course they have no incentive to permit provocations like that. (By the way, I think they should have let the bikers through, my comments here relate more to the Russian “offense” at that, which I find profoundly hypocritical and misguided.) And since neither country is a vassal state of Russia – anymore – they can exercise their rights, just like Russia can exercise its right to block Nazi bikers.
As to your last comment, this objection / intolerance is so widespread that I do not need to link to it. Just think about all the animosity that Western Ukrainians celebrate UPA or when Baltic States have their “Nazi” veteran marches in their own countries which Stalin brutally invaded and occupied – it’s all been in the news even very recently. And not just by state-owned media but by the most senior politicians.
You seem to have this twisted revisionist belief (you,Yasenyuk and his Bandera pals) that somehow Ukraine was invaded by Russia.Ukraine (whatever you would call the area) was a part of “Rus-sia” from day one.Just as Bavaria is part of “Germany”.It was conquered by outsiders and then reunited several times throughout History.And had been reunited for something like 300 years before WW1.Those “evil” communists set up a “Ukrainian” state in that area as a part of the USSR after the Civil War period.But it was still united under one overall state.Many,many,”Ukrainians” (West Russians) were loyal communists all during that period.And the vast,vast,majority of the population considered themseles as a part of the Rus-sian people.No “Russians” invaded their own country.Anymore than would be true of French troops “invading” Provence,British troops “invading” Essex ,or German troops “invading” Saxony.You have been brainwashed by Western pro-fascist propaganda.
Oooh, the Imperialist Communist accusing others of being brainwashed. LMAO.
For what it’s worth, I really despise Yatsenyuk and Bandera. Your ability to make predictions about my views is hampered by the fact that you are a Communist and, from all appearances, not a particularly bright or perceptive one, rather prone to partisanship (i.e., total lack of independent analysis). So let me explain a few things to you.
Ukrainians do not consider themselves Russians. They consider Russians a debased form of Kiev-Rus – basically, Kiev-Rus that have been mixed with Mongols and (fondly) ruled over by Jews. This is why you hear things about “Muscovite-Jewish mafia”. Also Russia did conquer parts of Ukraine in the 17th century but even then it was part of an ethnically diverse Empire, and this does not make the conquered Ukrainian territories culturally Russian (any more than Chechnya was culturally Russian or Orthodox). Other parts of Ukraine were ruled by Poland/Lithuania/etc. But Ukrainians do not consider themselves Poles or Lithuanians either – they consider themselves Ukrainians, your impetuous arrogance notwithstanding.
Ukraine was not part of “Russia” because Russia is a nation, not an ethnic group. And in particular Russia is ruled by a certain oligarchy, which Ukrainians do not want to be ruled by (whether you agree with this decision or not is entirely irrelevant). You cannot force somebody into your country even if they are of the same ethnic group. Germany tried that in WW II (with Sudetenland and Danzig Corridor) and it was widely condemned. There are plenty of countries where people have a shared history but live in separate countries. Germany and France; France and England; Germany and Denmark; Hungary and Austria; etc. etc. etc. Yet only deranged folks claim that their country has the right to dominate the other and that the other is properly a subject.
Have a look where Ukraine is (and isn’t) over the centuries.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/22-maps-that-explain-the-centuries-long-conflict-in-the-ukraine
It’s made up of Novorossiya, Malorussia, Bessarabia, Zacarpathia and Galicia, and a few other little bits. There is no single “Ukrainian” –different people in different parts have different ethnic backgrounds (all mixed variously) and currently one lot is trying to force its version onto the others, to the point of openly wanting to exterminate one group. Sorry this is not titled in English but you can read the dates the various bits got added.
http://fortruss.blogspot.com.au/2015/04/the-russians-part-ii-ukraine-irony-of.html
I think you’ve gone over your “10 post limit” so perhaps you should give it a rest now.
Definite trolling.
Not worth reading or responding to, and no knowledge of communism.
You “Ukrainian” supporters make so many historical errors its as if you never studied history (oops,I forgot you don’t.Unless its revisionist,that is). You say you don’t like Yatsenyuk and the Bandera yet your thinking “mirrors” their ideas,ironic.You say I’m a communist,but I’m not.I actually don’t have a political label.In some matters I’d probably be socialistic,in others I’m a traditionalist,even maybe a monarchist.You say Ukrainians don’t “think” of themselves as “Russians”.That’s interesting,I think that would depend on which Ukrainians you’d ask.Many in Southeast Ukraine would dispute that with you.And even in other areas,the Rusins say they are “Russians”.And I recall Oles Buzina,the murdered anti-fascist Ukrainian Historian saying “I’m a Ukrainian,its a kind of Russian”.So yes,your Bandera,don’t think of themselves as “Russians”.But they are only a section of the people there.Almost half consider Russian as their preferred language.And more people speak Russian than the official West “Ukrainian” language.Including over half the population of Kiev.And since the area of “Ukraine” was at the beginning of their history a third of ancient Rus-sia I don’t think there is a question of them being a conquered people.Unless again as I said before you consider regions of a country of the same ethnicity as a conquered land.There never was a “Ukraine” separate from the motherland of Rus-sia,except when it was under foreign rule and then for 23 years after the breakup of the USSR.Comparing the countries you did “Germany-France” etc,is disingenuous.They are not the same peoples,and were not part of a thousand year old common culture together as one state.The different peoples of the Austro-Hungarian Empire had a Historical connection as well.But unlike the Rus peoples of Rus-sia,no one would consider the Ausrians,Hungarians,Czechs,Slovaks,etc,as the same people.Which is not true in the case of the Rus peoples.
@ Cal Dre
Prince Michel Sturdza says something like that about Stalin and Hitler in his memoirs “The Suicide of Europe”.
CADRE:
I am glad to infer with some confidence that you are a paid-up member of the ACLU.
The ACLU of course takes free speech seriously.
https://www.aclu.org/aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie
Support the ACLU!
Cf. also Voltaire.
This whole counterfactual skirmish as to who would do what and who is the bigger bogey is quite childish and also IMO irrelevant in the context of honoring war dead.
Katherine
Yes sure that speech was written by the “Churches, Bankers, Industrialists and the Landowners” Its obvious to me you have not read Howard Zinn’s book “Peoples History of the United States. You can find it here in full .http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html Zinn put it on the web recently just before he died . You know what every word that you have written here in your comments are false according to this book so read it before you send others to it. But thank you.
Yes, that’s really embarrassing. Ten (or twenty, I don’t remember) bikers are so terrifying, who knows if they meant to take over some strategic points, like american military bases? The whole situation would be funny if it weren’t so pitiful.
However, I’d like to express my opinion as to why did Polish government ban the Night Wolves – not only because they always take the opportunity to do something against Russians. The whole turmoil with the Russian bikers began weeks ago – oh right, we have no other serious problems to solve, let’s bash some Ruskies – and two days before the Wolves were to cross the border in Terespol, foreign minister decided to cancel their visas. What a victory! Almost like 1920.
But something went very wrong. Polish bikers from the Katyn Rally (I’m not sure if it’s correct in English) fiercely backed the Night Wolves. When the government was arguing over letting Night Wolves into Poland, Polish bikers offered to escort the Russians on their road. They said it’s a just thing to help Russian bikers when they visit our country because when the Katyn Rally goes to Russia to attend the graves of Polish officers, they always get free visas, the lane for VIPs and are well treated by other bikers they meet there. But it’s not only our bikers – when I read forums, I saw many nagative opinions about this useless row. Many people are just tired with it. A few bikers ride through Poland to Germany, so what (I don’t count the clinical Rusophobes in, that’s pointless)?
If not for these pathetic “politicians” most Poles wouldn’t even notice any Night Wolves. But thanks to them some Poles began to ask themselves: what’s the fuss about? Imagine what would it be if 20 NW’s went through Poland with the escort of 50-80 Polish bikers and some citizens even welcomed them. A total PR disaster for our rulling class. It would be quite hard to call them all “usefull idiots” or agents, though I’m sure they would do it. But it’s absolutely unacceptable to show any solidarity or positive attitude towards Russians. So they banned it.
But ten again, the leader of the Katyn Rally said they would go the road Night Wolves planned and light candles in places they had chosen. They did it, so I hope Russians will remember it and won’t ban the Katyn Rally next year. Maybe ban the politicians from visiting Smolensk?
Regards.
You guys are reallly losing it. Even many well meaning people in Germany will see this “victory invasion” as a provocation. Soon, Saker, you’ll be all alone with the boleks of this world.
Then what should we see a USA convoy of military vehicles as? what business do they have there in the first place?
Well, they aren’t parading through Moscow to celebrate their victory in the cold war, right. And they don’t hold commemorative services at the Gulag Archipelago to remember the “evil” they defeated.
Are you intending to say that Germans still empathise with Nazis? How can you blaspheme Germans like this today?! Germans themselves will kill you, considering their sensitivity about Hitler and Nazism today :P
Is this answer addressed to the voices in your head? It certainly hasn’t anything to do with what has been written here.
The Night Wolves bikers’ trip from Moscow to Berlin is not intended as provocation even if others see it as such. These bikers are unarmed and are only retracing the path the Soviet Army took to push back the Nazis to Berlin and to oust and arrest Hitler and his government.
Operation Dragoon Ride, conducted by units of the US Army and NATO from the Baltic nations, Poland and the Czech Republic to Germany in March 2015 was intended as a show of force.
Ridiculous. This whole action is deliberately designed as a provocation. There would have been a thousand ways to conduct this in a reconciliatory way that would have fostered friendship. But they carried their Russian flags and Stalin portraits when they set off and intended to hold a “victory parade”, uninvited and with the full intention to spite the citizens of the host country. Every country on earth would consider this an affront, Russia certainly would.
And while they obviously love to rub in todays Germans’ noses in how evil they were, they wouldn’t even lose a word about the less then splendid behaviour of the Bolshevik army at that time. Do you really believe any non-Russian buys your sanitised version of the Bolshevik advance in central Europe?
you’re a troll
Deciding to post under anonymous doesn’t mean we can’t recognize the trolling style CalDre.
Your post here confirming you are trolling.
Name calling (Uncle Joe), mockery of ‘hug box’, smearing ‘herd, resentment mongers’, disregard of facts, no content. . Typical trolling post. Just noise.
We often see this sort of thing when the imperialists and fascists clutch at straws. Again one may ask, ‘where are all the hypocritical Je suis Charlies’ who are offended and feel threatened at anti-imperialist speech?
The exegesis of such posts by trolls reveal the weakness and fears, as well as ideology and disconnect from reality. But it’s also a nuisance.
Enough, everybody. Stop arguing and getting personal. Keep to the thread topic or keep away.
The Soviets emptied their prisons and sent common criminals to fight for their country in the front lines. The propaganda was basically to kill and destroy, and that was what the front line soldiers did. The losses were horrendous, with some battles more than 250’000 men dead.
Yet amongst them were those that fought to take the Auschwitz concentration camp, when they had an objective to get to Berlin. Over 200 men lost their lives for that. The Soviets really had better things to do than be burdened by 7’500 starving, lice infected living skeletons to take care of but they did it anyway in the middle of winter, at minus 20 degrees Celsius in January 1945.
Those were Russian soldiers that every German can respect. They stood up for human decency.
The Stalin portraits may be considered a provocation by some. He was however the head of state that defeated Nazi Germany. That was quite the achievement, going against the strongest country by almost all counts, military and economic in the summer of 1941. Despite all the faults and criminal deeds attributed to him, Stalin saved Russia from sure annihilation.
The German military at the war end was trying to negotiate a war with the US and UK against Russia. They did their numbers and turned down the proposition as it was too risky for them. The military machine of Stalin was strong enough to intimidate the opening of another chapter of active warfare.
There is a lot more respect for someone even as “bad” as Stalin, than many will want to admit.
The following link allows you to choose podcast or transcript. It’s from the Corbett Report. It is entirely new material of which you are not aware. It gets off to a slow start, but keep going.
https://www.corbettreport.com/episode-297-china-and-the-new-world-order/
When one party accuses “the other” of the evil one is himself guilty of, it is called “projection”. Classic for Zionist accusations against Palestinians, and Europeans against Russians.
Too many trolls here…
Brilliant article, clearly a honeypot for trolls:P
Jade
Too many trolls here…
Agreed. The comment sections are looking more and more like this.
They’ve been coming out the woodwork lately — probably part of the new campaign and budgeting by the empire to try to stop losing the information war and spread it’s dysinformation.
haha, please dont do the same as everyone else in other msm threads and just assume, that someone has to be troll just because he or she has different opinions. but whatever, have a great one!
“haha” back at ya.
As Moynihan said, one is entitled to ones own opinion, but not one’s own facts. I was not assuming trolling, but observing it — for some days now. Just the structure of the comments alone are sufficient without even looking at the content.
This is not an MSM thread, BTW.
If the Night Wolves had been gay zionist Jews opposed to “Putin”, there would have been no problem…
As I see it, none of the countries through which the Red Army traveled in routing the nazis is currently occupied by Russian forces, whereas Germany, Italy, and Japan are militarily occupied by the U.S.
And the swastikas adorning the fictitious German bikes would have to be picked up in some other country, because they’re illegal in Germany.
Entire conversation was pre-empted by that CalDre troll. No point in even trying to have an informative dialog. It’s a pity, cuz there were some informative things going on– but pointless to even try to change the conversation away from responding to his nonsense.
now instead of charette, we’re all fighting caldre…hmmm….I wonder if its the same person. paid troll
oh, and by the way…Charette and CalDre have exactly the same behavior.
Not much point complaining about it, just do the same to German and Polish “counterparts” pointing out that it is a symmetrical response.
just to remind new readers of the nightwolves actions in Crimea
extracts…
In Sevastopol Mr Zaldostanov was greeted as a hero on Monday at the “Roads of the Russian Spring” rally. The Night Wolves helped patrol streets in the port as self-defence groups surrounded Ukrainian military bases and government offices, in Crimea.
On the square, locals rushed forward to ask for Mr Zaldostanov’s autograph or to take a picture with him. A grey-haired lady in a fluffy pink hat nestled under his arm.
“After Crimea, the life of all of Russia changed,” the biker said, to murmurs of approval from the crowd. “Even in the world there were tectonic shifts. For the first time we showed resistance to the global Satanism, the growing savagery of Western Europe, the rush to consumerism that denies all spirituality, the destruction of traditional values, all this homosexual talk, this American democracy.
“And it is this town that did it most of all, that stood up to that and changed so much – a Stalingrad of the 21st century.”
They are also featured in the documentary Crime the way home.
CalDre:
about [Stalin’s] invasion of Poland, Finland, the Baltic States and Ukraine
I’ve sat here for a day rereading this and am just dumbfounded.
These lands were severed from Russia in 1918 by the Imperial German Army High Command. When Russia reasserted some control in 1919-1920, there was a second invasion by Poland and the German Freikorps in Riga, and then an invasion by Russia’s own so-called victorious Allies of World War I including Britain and the US, and the wild annexation of western Ukraine and Belarus by Poland.
So Russia taking the first opportunity in 1939-1940 to restore a semblance of her pre-WWI borders minus the Duchy of Finland and and the Kingdom of Poland is a sign of evil?
Or maybe you refer to Russia’s “invasion” in 1944, when Stalin failed to overlook 4 years of war crimes and conclude an armistice and a peace treaty with Hitler upon reaching the border of the Greater German Reich, but instead insisted on total victory.
USSR had no justification to enslave Eastern Europe after Germany was defeated. They should have withdrawn and let the people rule themselves
Really? So in 1914, Russia was invaded by Germany, Austria, Hungary, and Bulgaria. The war aim is the severing of Russia west of the Don River and Lake Pepius and the annexation of this territory to Germany and Austria-Hungary. In 1917 Romania decided to join in and invaded Russian Bessarabia. We can’t speak of a Polish or Baltic invasion at that time because, of course, they were part of Russia, but once Germany recreated Poland and invented the new Baltic States, they quickly got in on the act and invaded Russia in 1919. Poland got all the way to Kiev before she was stopped. The only Eastern European countries that didn’t invade Russia then was Serbia and Albania. The aftermath of these wars was millions of dead Russians, the country lying in ruins, and the western part of Russia partitioned off first by Germany and then by her own Allies.
So lets fast-forward to World War II. Stalin first takes the opportunity to restore the Russian territory in the Baltics, Kresy Poland, and Bessarabia. Apparently, Germany, Poland, and Romania seizing these territories 20 years previously was okay, but Russia taking them back was not. Then, Russia is again invaded by Germany (united with Austria and the Czech lands), Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria, and this time also joined by Finland. Once again only Serbia, this time known as Yugoslavia, does not join in. This time the war aim is the total dismemberment and military occupation of Russia followed by the genocide of her people and the resettling of the land by foreigners. Once again, her “Allies” Britain and the US and have contingency plans to continue their part of the war by invading Russia after they all finish with Germany.
These two invasions by Germany and her Eastern European Allies cost Russia a mere 40+ million people. “Just” 20%+ of her population. Surely nothing to cause any alarm, right?
So after overcoming these threats and reaching Berlin and Vienna, you begrudge Stalin and his Communist successors for militarily occupying the invading countries to prevent a 3rd invasion which presumably would have involved the use of nuclear weapons against the Russian people? Note well that Stalin did not occupy Yugoslavia and Yugoslavia was allowed to follow its own path of development and alliance. For this loyalty to Russia, of course, Yugoslavia was punished in 1991-1999 by being dismembered.
I will grant you a single point in this discussion – the occupation of Czechoslovakia, annexing Transcarpathia, and turning the only democracy in Eastern Europe where the people actually did rule instead of being part of a Fascist dictatorship, was wrong. The Czechoslovaks had never done anything to the Russians and did not deserve this or any punishment or punitive regime. It was of course undertaken for military reasons, the same reason the US invaded and occupied Iceland in World War II, and the same geopolitical reason the US still militarily occupies western Europe. That doesn’t make it any less wrong.
Every other country in Eastern Europe got exactly what they deserved at the end of WWII – namely Russian military occupation – for their twice setting the world alight and invading Russia proper.
I will also grant you one other point – Galician Ukraine had never been part of Russia and should have been left with Poland. Annexing it to Soviet Ukraine was a terrible mistake. Not that the people there, who were fervent Nazis and Germany’s most faithful allies and servants (the Germans loved them so much that they annexed them to Germany and planned only the lightest reorientation of the population under Genernal Plan Ost) didn’t get what they deserved, but the move was a terrible one strategically for Russia that backfired horribly.
Time is yours. Don’t embarass yourself too much more here.
Just a funny picture
http://imgur.com/uAKnzBp
Dear The Saker,
Wow – I came back today to post some updates in regard to the ride and was rather shocked by the trolling attacks and utter tosh spewed by the troll/s. That one got paid rather well….
Let me make one thing very clear the commemeration to me is about the end of the Nazi nightmare in the EU and honouring the death of all the civilians and soldiers who died to liberate the EU and world from the Nazi’s – nothing more. (I am no Stalin sympathiser)
On May 9th I will go and honour the memory at an event hosted in my City to pay my respects to all the soldiers/civilians (those few remaiing soldiers who are still alive will be there) – I have family who fought in WW2, one died, fighting against the Nazi’s so I respect the sacrifice all the USSR countries made to free us from the evil and hatred of the Nazi regieme.
Updates:
They made it.
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150430/1021554697.html
Poland, Lithuania and Germany actually broke the law.
http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20150430/1021557833.html
Japanese despite being nuclear bombed by the US bow and scrape to them and PM decides too busy to attend celebrations.
http://tass.ru/en/russia/792611
VP on his family’s experience of WW2
http://tass.ru/en/russia/
Rgds,
Veritas
p.s. I had a Western education and my generation were taught about the war. It seems generations now are lacking in basic knowledge – probably too many Hollywood films ;) and dumbing down.
Another link – a more detailed version of the VP story which of course hasn’t been picked up in the MSM:
http://russia-insider.com/en/opinion/vladimir-putin-west-doesnt-care-know/6277
Rgds,
Veritas
From your second link (broke the law’):
“Many Western media sources have focused heavily on the fact that the bikers’ leader, Alexander Zaldostanov, is a friend of President Vladimir Putin, as if that somehow justifies the politicized decision not to allow the bikers, who possess valid Schengen visas, to enter Schengen area.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20150430/1021557833.html#ixzz3YnwmaUN8
”
Well, this is the crux of it: the demonization of Putin and Russia, necessary for the fascists to build justification for attacking Russia and expanding the empire. The target of this seems increasingly to be the ‘leaders’ of nations rather than the people, who too often see through the propaganda, and support the defeat of fascism and Russia. Hence the panic about losing the information war to ‘Putin’s troll army’, and the fascist’s attack on history and reason.
Yet, it is backfiring, as more and more that propaganda campaign necessarily swings towards supporting the well known fascists and tyranny of the past by Nazis and their ilk — which then turns even more people against them. What started as a mere tactic of putting Nazi terrorists in charge of Ukraine as puppets to control and destroy the nation has morphed out of control, their own destructive weapons turning back against them.
The empire lacks an understanding of karma, blowback, unintended consequences and overdetermination (Hegel’s dialecticism), and ‘what goes around comes around’ — however one wishes to phrase it. Not that different, really, from the banksters trying to gather all the wealth to themselves and destroying the economy and working class — the source of wealth — in the process. Yup! It’s old gold egg laying goose slaughter all over again.
Wow — this comment thread quickly turned into a truly stunning screamfest :-)
CalDre, I’m grateful that you submitted your blog barfs and I’m even more grateful to the moderators here who didn’t censor them. Whether you were trolling for money doesn’t matter that much because you accomplished a very significant feat:
You see, every little Westerner — political persuasions, gender, complexion etc. regardless — has a Holy Task to do for the benefit of the Western imperialist bourgeoisie: To forever hate Joseph Stalin. Predictably enough, this sort of ideological grovelling breeds almost nothing but boring, ahistorical, unimaginative utter hogwash. Sincere, hard-core fascists like yourself, by contrast, don’t have this mind control activated. Hence, whenever your ilk vents your much more genuine hatred of Stalin, it becomes glaringly obvious what Stalin was good for — Westerners are too bigoted and self-opinioned to accept as proof positive the Russians’ high approval of him — and, most notably, why the powers that be demands our perpetual condemnation of him.
CalDre, you’re giving the Western “anti-authoritarian” invertebrates a hard time. Please keep up the fighting spirit!
As long as you guys try to whitewash Stalin and the Bolsheviks, no one will buy the projection of yourselves as the enlightened counterweight to “Western Imperialism”. You just reveal yourselves as what you really are: Aggressive, expansionist nationalists and bigots and hypocrites to boot.
Turns out, the only thing that really angers you about the US is that Russia is simply not as powerful as them, because in your behaviour and motivations you are pretty much the same.
Sweetheart: In my very stong opinion, Joseph Stalin needs no buggered “white-washing”. The Russians rightfully hold him and the earth-shattering accomplishments of the USSR that he lead in high regard. Needless to say, it’s exactly the same thing with Vladimir Putin. What angers me about the US is that it is a peril to the entire species, forever thriving on death and destruction. Nazism is the spawn of Americanism: Western supremacist psychosis.
Who would have thought that this site, ostensibly run by an Orthodox Christian, is a den of Stalinists? But it does remind why NATO is an absolute necessity and why Ukraine is desperate to join NATO – indeed nothigng gives the Banderites and NATO lovers a bigger boost than reading the comments on this thread.
Fortunately Putin is nothing like these freaks but it’s good to remember what are the alternatives in Rusia.
“People living in the EU are brought up in the
belief of their own civilizational
exceptionalism, not unlike the American
indoctrination that has been ongoing for
decades already (the proxy learns from its
master, evidently). From the cradle to the
grave, they’re led to believe that Europe is
the proselytizing ‘force of good’ in the world,
and that its people have an obligation to
‘civilize’ their Russian and Arab neighbors,
including through the use of EuroMaidan
and “Arab Spring” Color Revolutions. ”
This is nonsense.
No political economy undergrad would get away with statements like this in my old university: they’d get an NG (no grade).
The EU elites are not remotely representative of the diverse range of views/political sympathies across the the full spectrum of European nation-states. Europe is not a homogeneous entity: anything but.
The so-called European Union is itself an illusion, riddled with internal dissensions. The head of the European Commission (all appointed, not elected) Malmstroem is a Swede, currently pushing TTIP hard against the overwhelming objections of most Europeans. She is all too typical of the total disconnect between EU institutions and general populations. More and more people want to see it dissolved for exactly those reasons and a return to sovereign decision-making.
Please don’t spoil otherwise cogent analysis with sweeping statements that are not remotely true. Specify and exemplify.
Well that is not the greatest error in the post. The author actually tries to compare the Night Wolves – who were admittedly active in Crimea’s secession and in the Donbass rebellion (rightly or wrongly), as an NGO. Under that definition, Blackwater is an NGO too. And I’m sure Putin would love Blackwater bikers with EU flags driving through Russia and commemorating WW II Axis war dead. Not!
I’ve learned the Russian side has no less hubris, double standards, or supremacist views than anyone else. They’re just bitter they lost the cold war – morally, they are not one iota better than the worst of the West. Many of them – virtually all of them here – would just love it if Stalin ruled the entire planet from Moscow. That makes them far more dangerous than the Empire. Better the Empire you know, than the Empire you don’t :).
“I’ve learned the Russian side has no less hubris, double standards, or supremacist views than anyone else. They’re just bitter they lost the cold war – morally, they are not one iota better than the worst of the West. Many of them – virtually all of them here – would just love it if Stalin ruled the entire planet from Moscow. That makes them far more dangerous than the Empire.”
Perhaps, you should tell that to the literal millions of Iraqis, Afghanis, Libyans, Syrians, Vietnamese, North Koreans, Nicaraguans, Guatemalans, Chileans, Congolese, Rwandans, and others who have been murdered by America, the vaunted Land of the Free, and its fellow war criminals of Europe.
European Americans are truly a sick and twisted people, who imagine themselves as the morally superior “Master Race” … sorry, Liberal Democracy–despite the fact that they been raping the planet for centuries since 1492, if not longer.
Just see how they worship slave-owners, ethnic cleansers, and genociders like George Washington, Winston Churchhill, Thomas Jefferson, or Christopher Columbus–all false idols who deserve to be treated with the SAME CONTEMPT as America’s former WW2 ally, Uncle Joe Stalin.
In many ways, Nazism is merely Westernism in more naked form.
After all, the Anglo Americans in particular aided and supported the rise of Nazism Germany.
That is why, despite their pro-forma denunciations of Nazisim, the Euro-Americans deep down have a peculiar fascination (and implicit admiration) for Nazism.
Euro-Americanism = Nazism in democratic drag.
In fact, when Ghandi was asked what he thought of Western Civiliziation, he cheekily replied, “it would be a good idea”–meaning Western “Civilization” would be a good idea, if it actually existed.
Conjuring Hitler: How Britain And America Made the Third Reich
http://druckversion.studien-von-zeitfragen.net/Conjuring%20Content%20and%20Preface.pdf
War Against the Weak: Eugenics and America’s Campaign to Create a Master Race
http://waragainsttheweak.com/
Why, may I ask, do you subscribe to Stalin-bashing? It’s been passed down to you from the very same Western elites who have been happily tormenting Humanity for centuries. They hate him for a reason, and it’s got nothing to do with philanthropy, mind you.
The tormenting, of which you accuse the West, is a nice life compared to life under Stalin.
And of course Communism is the product of the very same “Western” elites which you think you condemn. But really you are their eager and loyal slave.
“The tormenting, of which you accuse the West, is a nice life compared to life under Stalin”
Sounds promising. If true, the West’s “War On Terror” is rather a “War On Ingratitude” — the more so since the Russian people seem to have quite a different view of Stalin. Western supremacists never cease to amaze.
One more point on this – do you know why Communists celebrate May 1, and why Russia celebrates it today?
The founders of Communism are the Illumiinati. On May 1, 1776, Adam Weishaupt formed the first chapter of the Bavarian Illuminati.
The Illuminati were behind the French Revolution, including the Terror. They also used the slogans “liberty, equality and fraternity”. Sound familiar?
“The founders of Communism are the Illumiinati. On May 1, 1776, Adam Weishaupt formed the first chapter of the Bavarian Illuminati”
Please elaborate on the Illuminati staging the Haymarket Riot in 1886. Given your prodigious knowledge of their machinations, I feel disposed to believe you’re an Illuminari yourself. Are you not supposed to hold on to your secrets?
The Illuminati information about Adam Weishaupt is widely available, even on Wikipedia.
The Illluminati plot was fortuitously exposed by the Bavarian Government in 1787, after an Illuminati courier died making a delivery and the papers were discovered. But it did not prevent the Illuminati, who had been tipped off to their discovery, from leading the French Terror under the slogans “liberty, equality and fraternity”, or of leading the Red Terror under the very same slogan.
Incidentally Skull & Bones, the Yale University secret society that both John Kerry and George Bush belong to (and both steadfastly refuse to speak about), is an Illuminati chapter.
The Haymarket affair occurred on May 4, not May 1 – but it’s occurrence was related to May 1, for sure. Indeed, the Communists had planned a general strike for May 1. The Haymarket affari was a consequence of that general strike and some follow-up actions.
Yes, I know, it is sad for Communists to learn the entire “worker’s movement” has been orchestrated by the very elite which they loathe – an elite which sits above even the capitalist class which they loathe. This upper tier elite controls both capitalism and Communism. But ironically, the Communism imposes even more severe slavery, and grants even less (read: no) rights to workers or anybody.
Communism is the ultimate objective of this ultimate evil: a global tyranny where the rulers own everything and the “workers” are their slaves who own nothing and have absolutely no rights (no right to strike; no right to dissent; no right to organize; no right to speak; no right to create political parties; no rights whatsoever, the Stalinist nirvana you pathetic Communists all strive for on a global scale. And that is why I oppose you: you are the agents of the world’s greatest evil in their most evil plan of global tyranny.
California Dreaming, sadly you show the same twisted mind that Yatz and Turchinov, and alike ilk are acting out everyday in your U-kraina. The sad destiny of your self destructive ambitions, resentments, and jealousy against Russia are as clear as that of your third reich and your Bender idols. You have destroyed every positive asset that the entire Soviet Union deposited in your soil.
You continue to beg and steal from anyone who believes your victim complex.
You are envious of the progress and tenacity of your Older and Bigger brother, Russia.
You are Cain to Abel. No derogatory nor twisted thought or comment can erase this fact.
But, of course, you are not of real Slavic stock, of real Russian spirit.
Through the centuries you have learned to live bent over, learned to live to please a foreign master, and loved to eat from the crumbs off their table. Occasionally they will kick you in the ass, to correct a few of your misbehaviors, and you will love it, and continue to be obedient, subservient, and ready to do all the dirty work, in the most imaginative evil manner.
CalDre, I have pity on you, it is sad to see that man’s reasoning capacity can be twisted in such a manner that it becomes inhuman, that it loves to return to the most base instincts, and to love the life in a sewer that condones the burning of other humans, the dismemberment of someone who disagrees, by any means, the crucifixion and burning of someone who aspires to live his life as his heart and soul understands. No one here wishes you ill. I hope no one here wishes ill on anyone of your admired governments. We only want to come to an understanding and acceptance of our differences, and to respect those differences.
But, evil we will never accept.
We will fight it to the end, we will shine the light on it, it will not go unnoticed.
That is what you resent. That there are people who do not bend over with the pleasure that you do. That there are people who understand the world in a different manner, and that that manner of being has more merits than yours. You like to kick dead horses. I think we like to live and enjoy what life has given us, and to share it with anyone.
Probably it is futile to talk to someone like you, a sniper, an assassin of the word, someone with so many traumas that we have to feel pity.
You don’t need to understand, maybe you are Legion. But we are a few decent people, not just in Europe, Russia, all of Asia, Latin America, Africa, and even in the Five Eyes.
And we have hope for a decent life for all of us and our families, we want to honor our dead, we want to have a dignified and honorable life for our children, and that everyone on this planet has a right to a decent life.
And we respect our history, we don’t make a mockery of our ancestors, we don’t pretend to be superior, just normal. We are not salivating after green bills, nor green cards.
The lack of rational arguments sends you to accuse, no amount of copy and paste can make up for a lack of neurons. Yes, you have earned your pennys and kopecks.
“CalDre, I have pity on you, it is sad to see that man’s reasoning capacity can be twisted in such a manner“.
Every single sentence you wrote shows you to be a Russian chauvinist, ignorant and deluded (and, frankly, your mentality is why Banderites exist in the first place – they are simply a reaction to Russian imperialism – groomed by the CIA no doubt, but any question as to the genuine nature of their disgust for Russia is answered by reading your post and the others on this thread).
Your assumption that CalDre is Ukrainian or supports fascism reflects the sad emptiness of your being, your lack of the most basic understanding or compassion, your paranoid victim complex mixed with delusional chauvisnism / supremacism. Your entire Russian supremacist scribe that accompanies it demonstrates why Eastern Europeans have so much contempt for Russia – and by that, I mean Russians LIKE YOU – supremacist, deluded, misguided, ignorant, paranoid, unable to comprehend the most basic concepts or realities, and, while I don’t know this about you, willing to use violence to expand their rule based on these infirmities.
You claim some universality, that you care about things, but all of these claims are empty verbiage. The first part of your message reflects your soul – and an ugly sight it is.
Fortunately at the moment your kind is a small minority in Russia. We have the same sick deviants in the “West”, fortunately they are also a minority at this time.
@ Anonymous on May 01, 2015 · at 1:01
am UTC
”
That makes
them far more dangerous than the Empire.
Better the Empire you know, than the
Empire you don’t :).”
You have missed my point entirely. And your preceding perceptions most definitely are not mine.
Ps. How does a widely-publicized – and supported by actions – project towards a *multi-polar* world align with supremacist/imperial ambition?
That’s right, it doesn’t.
There is a yearly visit of Russian bikers from the Kaliningrad enclave to Branievo where there is a big World War II graveyard of Soviet soldiers.
http://sputniknews.com/voiceofrussia/2012_05_06/73953114/
This excellent article from RT shows exactly what’s really happening with the EU and why it should not be conflated with Europe itself, much less it’s multi-national, multi-linguistic peoples:
http://rt.com/op-edge/254601-europe-secret-super-power-fuller/
California Dreaming, Your ignorance shows through and through. Copy and Pasting must be a good occupation for the divan warrior, but it brings no knowledge and no wisdom. I am glad you are making a living here, it is good to help the handicapped make a living.
You have no clue about who the people here are, not even from the nicks nor from the names.
Yes, you are here only to inflame and deviate, but one thing is that this is a place for thinking people, not for deluded individuals. there is a thing called a conscience, and that is what differentiates You from Me and others here. We feel a responsibility for this life, for this world.
you are happy to serve your Master, and you are happy with your narrow mindedness.
Of course, you are so nearsighted that you don’t see thee great opportunity many people have given you to broaden your views and perspective. I am not Russian, I have respect for them, for their indomitable spirit. the one that used to be prevalent in my SW, with my many ancestors.
The empire of Ilusions which you so happily embrace gives its just rewards to all who serve it.
Be glad in it, rejoice in it, nobody here is saying otherwise.
You project your fatal flaws on those who have a different viewpoint, and that makes you happy, gives meaning to your sad efforts, through the smiles of your Masters you find your reward.
You don’t realize that it is not Russia you are fighting, you are fighting against humanity, and humankind. Tunnel vision is your great quality, live happpy in it.
Finland is not banning Night Wolves if their visa papers are OK.