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Not a very good title choice, considering Ukrain just sank a Russian tug boat. And me who thought these antiquated Harpoons were no match for Russian countermeasures…
Of course it’s just a small tugboat but it’s still 10 dead.
Dear Micron,
So the Ukrainians have just sunk a ‘small’ tugboat. How many such tugboats would be needed to be sunk to effect the outcome of the battle/war?
But then there is also the reactions of the sinking of this tugboat. I wonder what they would be? Incoming missiles perhaps?
Well I sure hope so. Before the tug boat there was the Moskva, which was a bigger fish ; suddenly the story about it being sunk by missiles gets a bit more credible. The point is that the vaunted countermeasures didn’t do much, which leaves Martyanov with two choices
– acknowledge that the tug boat did not have such measures, which does not strike me as particularly intelligent when transporting sensitive military devices like Tor
– or acknowledge that it did have such measures but that they were ineffective, in which case this should cause some serious headaches to the Black Sea Fleet.
Of course it’s still insignificant in military terms but let me tell you that commenters on Cassad’s telegram channel were way more agressive and caustic than me.
Maybe the simple answer is that the tug boat was not carrying sensitive equipment like Tor. ?
In fact what it does illustrate is the huge success of the Russian operation, when the sinking of a tugboat garners so much attention. Its what is known as “clutching at straws” !
Yes, it could be the turning point of the war.
Tugboat unarmed = civilian target
The NATO commanders who ordered this hit will likely be indicted for crimes of war.
Not so.
On the sea, any ship flying an “enemy” flag is a legitimate target. You are suppossed to assist it to avoid loss of life – if possible – but there is no “I am civilian” legal protection.
This is simple – there is a no way to distinguish a comandeered ship from a “civilian” one. Besides, attacking supplies is also normal.
Andrei sums it up in 4 words.
For the west, the Wealth of Nations is based on military power.
Sorry boys, game over.
Those, who want to hear live Plenary session at SPIEF on June 17, 2022 in English, https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/RTlivestream:8
Nice comrade.
Hearts & Minds.
Thank you. I don’t get RT on TV. I see their TV programming is better than their website coverage today. They are showing a soldier who emigrated to Donbass from France long ago (he speaks Russian fluently); he says that he found in Donbass what he couldn’t find in France and that he will stay in Donbass. He is a Donbass soldier now.
I think an unarmed tugboat is used to get things (like sunk ships and cranes) out of the way (like a blocked harbor) to do things that are inpossible (like getting grain out of 404 to feed people in Africa).
A lot of people in Africa are needy and all are good, so feeding them is good, so doing things to feed them is good, but preventing tugboats work is bad. ‘Necessary’ missiles spilled on unarmed, humanitarian object. Backfire in PR face.
This proxy war reminds me of the one I served in for a year when I was in the US Air Force; the Vietnam War. One big difference I see is the disparity in sheer volume of military hardware being supplied from outside to the proxies. The West seems to be supplying to Ukraine only a fraction of the sheer volume that Russia and China supplied to Vietnam. Our fighter-bombers in Vietnam faced tens of thousands of SA-2 SAMs and radar guided anti-aircraft artillery pieces, plus the Soviets were willing to provide at great risk onsite training and technical personnel for the operating crews of that equipment.
One of the F-4 pilots in my unit reported that the North Vietnamese apparently had been supplied with so many SA-2s, that on a chaff laying mission, the NVA could afford to fire dozens of SA-2s at his F-4 flight, even though the fire control radars could not get a guidance lock, apparently hoping the missile proximity fuses would still take out planes as they passed the formation.
And that’s not to mention the continuous shiploads worth of artillery and small arms that worked their way down the Ho Chi Minh trail for ground combat. Eventually the US had to pretend that the war was a draw, leave and let South Vietnam fall.
It appears that the West has so shrunk its military arms that it can’t approach the similar volume of armaments that would even have a chance to make a difference in Ukraine.
@RoselliM.
I think you Yanks are obsessed with gadgets. Long before Kennedy sent in his armed “advisors”, I warned our Yankee visitors not to invade Vietnam; because they were going to fight people who could endure hardship beyond the imagination of you cornfed boys. In those days every 10th U$ Division was an Ice Cream Division delivering cakes and letters from home, socks knitted by mom, and the latest assignment for your correspondence course in Management Studies.
But our Yankee visitors just stared at me politely in silence. Or mouthed a silent, “Huh??”. I got the impression they did not know much about East Asia. I get the impression their grandchildren don’t know much about East Europe either.
Go ahead, Uncle, pour in as heavy stuff as you can afford. Give your maxed-out credit card another stretch. It won’t make a difference to the Special Operation in Ukraine.
Comment about@roselliM,
I just taught he was listing some facts. Obviously Ukraine is different from the tropical jungles of Vietnam, where millions were prepared to die. In addition, Russia has probably the best military equipment and nothing sent was going to change the inevitable.
I am not a military man, but knew that Russia would do exactly what Putin stated prior to Feb24th. The Russians and Chinese never make idle threats.
US/UK/NATO/Kiev underestimated Russian Military logistics and technologies.
The same group overestimated using Proxies to fight a netcentric combined arms war against Russia.
The same group had eight years to prepare for this war.
Russia is not a nation you start wars with.
There is no comparison of Vietnam and the SMO.
Sorry you think maybe the US should have or could have won the war you went to fight.
It was never going to happen. It’s about culture and civilization.
Just as picking a fight with Russia is about culture and civilization
By the way, the US dropped more bombs on Vietnam than in both theatres of WWII.
And it still lost badly. And no revisionism will change that fact.
Could not win in Korea. Lost in Vietnam.
Beat the hell out of Grenada after the Cuban construction workers put down their AK’s, conquered Panama when its elite force abandoned the capital and sat out the invasion in Chiriqui, and trounced a third world Iraq.
Lost big in Afghanistan.
The US military CV is a D- overall.
The US military is not in the business of winning.
Its function is to destroy other countries who adopt socialism and will not bow to to US hegemony.
Suggested reading “War Made Easy” by Norman Solomon.
A few excerpts from the full document attached – besides advanced technology, this is the personal side of what the western mercs had no clue the were going up against.
More than a month before the scheduled launch, Gagarin and a team of 50 technicians
inspected the Soyuz 1 and—after finding over 200 serious structural deficiencies—
wrote a report strongly urging that the mission be postponed. But no one dared to
send the report up the chain of command to the one man with the authority to cancel the
mission: Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev.
Shortly afterward, Komarov reportedly met with a KGB agent, Venyamin Russayev,
telling him: “I’m not going to make it back from this flight.”
Burning up in the atmosphere, Soyuz 1 hit the ground traveling
at about 90 miles per hour, landing with the force of a three ton meteorite.
Komarov was honored with a state funeral in Moscow—open-casket, as he had insisted
upon in the event of his death, despite the gruesome nature of his charred remains.
https://zamizdat.info/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/The-Man-Who-Fell-to-Earth.pdf
Vasily Bykov? Vsevolod Bobrov? Moskva? Even Saratov was hit most likely by Tochka U. Denmark’s “Hovsa” were retired in 2003.
So, the first 2 claims were pure Nationalist/Western lies (one of far too many), the other is more and more likely an accident/carelessness/poor seamanship and the Tugboat, which was claimed to be “Transporting troops, missiles and supplies”.
The video shows 2 strikes, followed by a secondary explosion and,……surprise, surprise, a third strike. Anyone been on a tug boat lately? Just colour me skeptic.
What?
P(kill) is proportional to p(detection) x p(undetection)?
So if p(detection) = 1, then p(kill) = 1 x 0 = 0 ? :-)
Very interesting though, thanks.
Scott Ritter and Ray McGovern give their analysis on the future of the Ukraine conflict, and the USA partisan conflict. The danger of nuclear war is also analyzed and the great risk seems to be NATO ‘first use’, as Martyanov says.
Scott Ritter and Ray on Ukraine
June 18, 2022
Interviewed by Regis Tremblay, June 16, 2022
https://raymcgovern.com/2022/06/18/scott-ritter-and-ray-on-ukraine/
“It’s the economy, stupid!” James Carville
Ritter analyzes the political gestalt of the USA mindset and complement’s Ray’s analysis about the USA domestic politics.
James Hansen links to an “8 minute” YouTube that tells us that the USA has never officially been at war since World War Two. That’s a rare venture into the politics of war for Hansen and crew, as it influences the climate change movement.
The last war that the American Congress declared was against Bulgaria, Rumania and Hungary, in 1942, which were Axis Powers in World War Two.
But this war is also about corporate oil profits.
see
How Many Wars is America Fighting? (It’s More Than You Think) – YouTube
https://youtu.be/uD8N4JQy7cw
While Hansen is not a big softie on Russia and Ukraine like myself, he recognizes war as an impediment to saving the world from climate change.
If the USA hasn’t had a war since 1942, then how is that Russia’s Special Military Operation is a war or an invasion?
Climate change is real.
“About two-thirds of Earth’s surface is made of water, sometimes very deep water, which is slow to take up the excess carbon and heat. So far, over 91% of the heat added by human activities, and about a quarter of the excess carbon, have gone into the oceans. While land-dwellers may be grateful for this buffer, the extra heat contributes to sea level rise through thermal expansion and also marine heat waves, while the extra carbon makes the ocean more corrosive to many shelled organisms, which can disrupt the ocean food chain.”
From
Global Warming after Emissions End
Climate scientist Julien Emile-Geay discusses the implications of “committed warming.”
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/06/09/global-warming-after-emissions-end/
“Ocean temperatures warm more slowly
Earth’s surface temperature, driven by the imbalance of radiant energy at the top of the atmosphere, and modulated by the enormous thermal inertia of its oceans, is still playing catch up with its biggest control knob: carbon dioxide concentration.”
But it is all ‘committed warming’, which is the substantial point of the link. It is largely impossible to reverse committed warming because of the “ enormous thermal inertia” of the oceans.
The Ukraine war is for corporate profit risking possible climate extinction or nuclear extinction.
Study Finds Fossil Fuel Gold Rush After War in Ukraine
June 14, 2022
Researchers warn that if governments’ current plans materialize, they will either end up as massive stranded assets or will lock the world into irreversible warming.
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/06/14/study-finds-fossil-fuel-gold-rush-after-war-in-ukraine/
Climate change is real. Russia will feel it, and is feeling it with forest fires and heat waves. Putin is one of the few politicians that understand this but all the defamation of his character and the war forced upon him for their hoped for regime change leave him no play to not only protect the security of Russia, but also to protect the world from the severity of climate change and reducing the dangers of nuclear war.
Carbon Dioxide Is a Pollutant. Please Help Establish That Fact.
May 2022 Temperature Update
James Hansen, Makiko Sato and Reto Ruedy
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2022/MayTemperatureUpdate.17June2022.pdf
It’s warming. CO2 is the primary cause.
The effects we feel now, extremes becoming more extreme, more floods, more droughts, more forest fires, warming oceans, more atmospheric rivers, more heat domes, are not stopping, even if we quit emissions now. What’s in the atmosphere now will continue to make all these present effects worse, until we reach equilibrium, even if we could possibly stop ALL EMISSIONS NOW!
That’s why it’s so urgent to reduce emissions ASAP.
This war is petrodollar related and, in turn, climate related.
Adam Smith, once again proving, to be an “American Politician” one has to be a vile, blood-thirsty, war mongering, brain-dead socio-psychopath.
These psychos aren’t “neo-con” these anti-Human psychopaths are “neo-liberal”…
Always enjoy Mr Martyanov talks
While the battleground is currently in the land of Ukraine/LPR/DPR…This is not a WAR on Ukraine, this is a WAR on the ENTIRE WEST (Oceania).