Trolls have been the bane of this blog pretty much since the Euromaidan, and I have had to do all sorts of things to try to limit their toxic effects and I did call them out quite often. Today, I want to do a nice thing for aspiring trolls, which is to give them a short vademecum on how to be the best troll you can be!
I will make that short, bullet point style, for practical use. So here we go:
- Rule number one: always make sure your comment is either the very first one (best!) or, at least, one of the top ones. This way you can best derail the discussion away from the actual article and make it all about your talking points. This was almost always the case when I was still writing for the Unz Review, and it is still very often the case on the Saker blog today. I would call this rule “the golden rule of trolling”.
- Do not, ever, refer to the actual contents of article you comment upon. Doing so might lead the readers to familiarize themselves with the author’s arguments or, worse, the factual and logical substantiation of these arguments. You want emotion, not analysis.
- Make sure to psychoanalyze both the author and the blog itself. Use sentences such as “you only write this because” or “in spite of the horrific censorship on this blog…” etc. This is basically the good old ad hominem disguised as some kind of insight into things the troll cannot – by definition – have any information about.
- In your comment, make sure to align as many Neocon talking points as possible, you can join them together into (apparent) sentences and (apparent) paragraphs. This way you give the external appearance of making an cogent argument while doing no such thing.
- Ignore the author’s arguments. If the author write “A”, do not directly dispute it, don’t even refer to it. Instead, write “non-A”. In fact, the ideal troll comment is one which never gives the reader a reason to look up the author’s actual arguments.
- Make sure that your comment is formally polite. Thus not only do you sound respectful and sincere (“all I want is an honest discussion!“), but it reduces the chances that the moderators will send it to trash. You can be snarky, of course, but that opens up your comment to being sent to trash on formal reasons.
- Claim the coveted “victim of censorship” status. Yes, even when you ignore (deliberately or not) the commenting rules! This technique is especially useful if your comment is illogical, off-topic or plain stupid. After all, in our times of “positivity” and “acceptance” it would be most politically incorrect to call any comment “nonsensical” or “stupid”!
- Misuse terms, especially those which are often misunderstood by non-specialists. The perfect example would be the difference between “air superiority” and “air supremacy”, or use “contested airspace”. The goal here is not to make a fact based and logical argument, the goal is to repeat Neocon talking points as often as possible. With some luck, other commentators will pick up this misuse of terms and you will achieve a synergistic effect.
- Go fishing. By that I mean this: post a number of statements and see if anybody else will “bite”, possibly a fellow troll (paid or not). Example, “it appears that a single Ukrainian MiG-29A shot 3 Su-35S in one mission“. With any luck, somebody will bite and, there we go, the synergistic effect will be achieved.
- Ignore points made in the original article. This is a crucial one. If an author writes “A” and then goes into some details explaining the factual and logical basis for this argument, don’t engage, but ignore it! Pretend as if it did not exist. With some luck, those who just skimmed over and article won’t realize what you are doing.
- “Bounce” external arguments. By this I mean simply write “I read fill in the blank” and ask for a rebuttal. The function and purpose of this technique is double: derail the conversation and (try to) force the author to waste his/her time debunking as many idiotic arguments as possible.
- When all else fails, use emphasis, hyperbole and gravitas. For example, “the shelling of Donetsk is a disgrace for Russia, the Russian military and Putin himself!“. If something is a “disgrace for Russia, the Russian military and Putin himself” then it must be pretty awful indeed! And the fact that this entire line of (pretend) “thought” is based on exactly *nothing* becomes obfuscated by the emotional content of the troll’s statement. That is not very effective, but when all else fails, it still can sometimes work. This is simply a recycling of an old lawyer’s trick: “When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither is on your side, pound the table.“
These are just a few basic, but crucial, rules. Aspiring trolls, take heed!
And everybody else – simply recognize these techniques when you see them :-)
Cheers
Andrei
Rule number one: always make sure your comment is either the very first one (best!) or, at least, one of the top ones.
As this is a moderated site.
Why allow a troll comment to be posted first?
Why allow a troll comment to be posted at all?
Are you volunteering to moderate?
@S: Are you volunteering to moderate?
When periodically you’ve called for moderation assistance. I have considered it. It would actually be a privilege to assist.
But a realistic appraisal… my internet connection is…. shyte.
My time availability is not in consistent “blocks”.
And I think we’d clash…. I’d be far too ruthless in culling “contributions” that others allow.
So nope…. carry on.
But the way I see it. Your blog, your rules. You’ve been battling the trolls and idiots since…. Well I think I first beached here 2015/16…. So, awhile.
Stop torturing yourself… just cull….
(That does not, of course, apply to *me*) (smiles ingratiating).
Trolls school, South Africa style:
I think many here would enjoy seeing SoS Blinken trolled.
Think the Chinese in Alaska were sassy?
Well. Watch in awe as South Africa speaks:
Scene: Press conference.
Blinken blinking, with nowhere to hide from this:
“We are a sovereign nation. We won’t be bullied. We won’t accept being told how we are to behave with threats of “or else”…. Not that Sec Blinken has said that….but others have.
https://twitter.com/EbrahimHashem/status/1557453554243207168
These African Russian stooge apologists are cutting their nose; this treachery will see them cut off from F-35 deliveries and other expensive flawed US military tech.
Been meaning to get around to investigating the number of non western students choosing Russia and China as their preferred choice of learning. Africa has a long history of sending their (I shouldn’t say best and brightest ) students, many I expect are still the off-spring of the elite. Still, I foresee the current numbers increasing many fold as European college education is practically useless and ridiculously expensive. Students will realise where future growth/jobs are available and choose accordingly. I’m still flabbergasted that western students/parents will go deep into debt for essentially a dubious degree that’s highly unlikely to get you headhunted.
Hi,
As a South African, I think my current goverment has gotten a few things correct and losts of stuff horribly wrong. The one area where I think they got it right – but my fellow SAffer liberals will disagree with me, is on our foreign policy. We make no friends nor enemies and we speak the truth as best we can and stay neutral most of the time. The only time my government speaks out is on Israeli acts of violence and thats about it. They dont interfere anywhere else.
I give five academy awards of trolling from this one from today MOA comments, pure gold.
Enjoy:
Well it appears that the attack on the airbase in Crimea literally wiped out ALL of the aircraft they had stationed there. Satellite images show a large crater and the burned out wrecks of numerous Su-24s and Su-30s. Here are the satellite images taken in a 24-hour interval from a Russian Telegram channel I follow for updates
And since this is Crimea, and naval aviation, these are some of the most modern airframes that Russia had. Irreplaceable.
The incompetence, the corruption, the archaic command structure, ALL of it is being manifested in how poorly this war is being prosecuted.
If the United States decided to enter the war, they would literally wipe the floor with Russia’s armed forces in 7 days.
Posted by: Peter in TO | Aug 10 2022 21:11 utc | 118
Yo, pete, do you mean like the US of A did this with peasants in Afghanistan?! Or when their Ss were handed to them by guerilla and IEDs in Iraq? Or maybe you mean the astounding success the army demonstrated back in Vietnam? Did I miss some turning point in us army becoming this amazing war-winning machine?! Please, enlighten everyone here with the source of your utmost faith.
Thanks, Andrei. One of the best descriptions of the methods that I have seen.
China has been refining its troll game of late.
Imagine if they were to make these comments about the government in Taiwan:
“This government will *not* be tolerated.
“They will be held accountable by us”.
Then say.
Aw.so-sorry. That’s the US talking about Columbia, (and governments across South America).
https://twitter.com/KawsachunNews/status/1557233915655585792
^ When Ted Cruz said the quiet part, not only “out loud”, but in full-throated outrage on the Senate floor.
{Also. Thanks Saker. “vademecum”. Had to dictionary that one.}
Tom Cruz in the U. S. Senate: “Any leftist leader who choses socialism will be held accountable by the United States”. He openly says that the US rules Latin-America and by extension the world and that the US defines what is socialism, a “leftist leader” and terrorism as it pleases. The US is the tyrant of the world supported by troll armies and fleets of bombers.
Most decent people should know today that everything coming from US is a mirror. If Tom Cruz says socialism as ideology is bs he is right, but the problem is Tom Cruz in his attitude of being superior at the same time is promoting other bs ideology he claim to be against.
A must read article about ideology which I wish for you all to read as it is at the heart of our future reality the next coming years and add to the understanding of confusing troll language popping up everywhere:
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2022/08/08/the-masque-of-pandora/
My comment to Mr. Saker’s list and Mr. Crook’s conclusion: New masks will appear from the Beast as the Beast will not go away, but the solution is off course the only true and universal platform the Elite and the Sheeple will refuse to adapt: Jesus Christ’s advise that we are here to contemplate and serve each other.
I believe you are referring to Ted Cruz. Tom=actor, Ted = imperialist senator.
Both actors, one better looking.
I hope these trolls are not paid by the number of stiffs they can turn as they’d be better off working the Amazon nightshift.
Still almost every profession in the EU has falling standards, intelligence services and journalists (partners-in-law), politicians, teachers, most trades and glaringly of late, from personal experience, cab drivers. It’s a rare sight to see one of these bozos ever get off their arse to ring your doorbell, that’s if they’re even parked outside the address you’ve given them.
Let’s not be too hard then on the trolls & shills; occasionally you get a good chuckle from, err, at them, being so pathetically obvious. I wonder if they receive more than the 2 weeks training UAF reservists get!
One more troll tip: Always quote the New York Times.
First comment is highly likely to be a troll. It would be nice if there was a way to delay a comment that was borderline.
You spend a lot of time talking about trolls. But trolls do what they do for the attention or specifically to derail the comments. Better to have a commentariat that can recognize trolls for who/what they are….and ignore them.
Don’t respond to trolls; or if you MUST engage, stick to basic facts and argument. That way the comments section isn’t flooded with irrelevant nonsense, and we all spend less time worrying about how to control them. If they can’t impact the discussion then they are under control.
There is only so much that any one can do to reduce trolling behaviour, but we can control our own reaction to the trolls. Far better that we limit their impact by simply practicing the virtues of self control and rational thinking.
Wittiest thing I’ve read all day, and I read all day. I’ll have to reread it as a matter of fact in order to memorize as well as possible … now that I am in my dotage it’s a little harder than it used to be.
Many good laughs and lots of things I’ve never considered. I used to think I’d like to be a mod on your site but now? No way. I don’t envy them. I’m not fit to even carry the kit bag necessary to deal with the likes of us much less the trolls. Thanks for an edifying article and the laughter.
👍 I enjoyed this. Although, I suspect that nowadays many (if not most) online trolls operating on the “critically influential” sites, are AI powered chat bots. Run by the 77th Brigade. And I wonder if there is a way to use the slight advantage that we, as humans, still have over them .. That said, there are, of course, many human operators, especially from Ukraine. Eg. your example about superiority vs supremacy, might serve as an indicator as afaik there is no separate terms in Russian (and presumably Ukrainian) military lingo between the two.
Trolling has literally been weaponized – the British 77th Brigade already well known.
Imagine Trolls in uniform – that needs a better image caption here, I’ll say.
Remember Musk’s stubborn demand to see Twitter’s real account numbers? If 20% are real, then Twitter is full Artificial Intelligence, all threads automatically ‘nudged’. First comment automated.
So Troll robots in uniform – the new Model Army!
“your example about superiority vs supremacy, might serve as an indicator as a faik there is no separate terms in Russian”
In Russian you can have plenty of separate terms regarding the mentioned example:
“superiority vs supremacy” = “превосходство vs преобладание” and also: господство, преимущество, превозмогание, владычество, перевес etc. And I haven’t taken any words with Latin origin yet.
Genuine Russian language is much more rich then Genuine English.
Imho …
You could just bin whatever looks like trolling to you.
I read The Saker for the articles, not the comments. Don’t let ’em get to you Andrei
That’s what they used to say about Playboy magazine. “I only buy them for the articles, not the pictures.” How many believed them? Therefore, do you think you will be believed?
What a confused and incoherent reply. For your sake I hope you are a bot
I have suffered the trolls and paid propagandists since the 1990s. I have printed the vademecum for reference and repeated consultation. Thank-you.
Can Mr.Andrei a respected professional military guru honestly tell us what happened in Crimea if he knows because the scenes are horrible on all TV screens around the world.
I myself was once tagged as likely troll for pointing out things I perceived as shortcomings in Russian military capability/tactics. I was also reminded I was not an expert.
However, blogs are equivalent of a pub where non experts relatively freely talk, banter and express opinions on important events. If comment section is opened, non experts will frequent it.
Saker, you can have as wide and all encompassing definition of a “troll” as you wish. But it can quickly lead to “culling” of all voices but for greatest syncofants. It would be a shame.
My comments tagged as “trollish” referred to thoughts I picked from Russian on site military journalists and channels like Sasha Kots, Rybar and Kotenok. These guys are patriotic and sometimes quite critical toward Russian military effort, although none doubt final victory.
@Saker,
Trolls, and DDOS attacks are one thing, but this is entirely different, and deadly, very worrying :
Kiev published a list of 70+ names , added Amnesty International recently :
https://cpd.gov.ua/reports/%d1%81%d0%bf%d1%96%d0%ba%d0%b5%d1%80%d0%b8-%d1%8f%d0%ba%d1%96-%d0%bf%d1%80%d0%be%d1%81%d1%83%d0%b2%d0%b0%d1%8e%d1%82%d1%8c-%d1%81%d0%bf%d1%96%d0%b2%d0%b7%d0%b2%d1%83%d1%87%d0%bd%d1%96-%d1%80%d0%be/
Speakers promoting narratives consonant with Russian propaganda
From Ukraine’s Center for Countering Disinformation (CCD).
Acting head of CCD, Shapovalov, charged that people who deliberately spread disinformation are “information terrorists,” subject to be tried as “war criminals.”
Scott Ritter, included there, called this a kill list considering Kiev’s track record . This Center is funded by Sen. Schumer with US tax$ to circumvent the 1st Amendment by a foreign power!
I think everyone here should be aware of where this is going – tyranny, using Kiev.
Major victory for free-speech – Kiev has removed the kill list due to surgical action from many sides!
404 Not Found .
Andrey, my brother Andrey is a level 10 troll, and you are spot on with your analysis. You are right that a good troll should at least make themselves believable, and so should sound as genuine as possible whilst trying to sink that knife into your kidney. I would say, the Foreign Ministry of Russia, and Maria Zakharova especially, are excellent examples of level 10 trolls. But it is easier to troll from the top of the hill rather than from an abyss.
I wouldn’t call Zakharova a troll. She usually strikes straight at the heart of the matter. She can be a tad sarcastic and can slice and dice with the best but not a troll as I see them.
Maybe. I’d define a troll as someone who argues in a way to make the other party drop their attack line for something they weren’t planning to do.
Hence trolls here try and stay away from the conversation, but trolls on the right side of the debate tend to be sarcastic and comical in a way that makes their opponent incapable of not addressing the point they were ignoring on purpose.
Mind you, at this point I think we should be talking about setting up a university course in some provincial town in England called ‘Trolology’!
Thanks. Educational.
Andrei: Thanks for that. {big smile}
It expands quite nicely my troll-ology reference data base.
Yes, I’ve noticed quite often how frequently first comments are merely “red herrings”. Some of them are so lightening-fast you’d think they were generated by an RSS bot!
Gosh…He completely sees through me!
Andrei, You should have some kind of marking possibilities to Reward the Trollness of the Comments,
something like Stars (or little Troll Heads, that would be more appropriate) something like the 👍 – 👎 buttons on YouTube …
Then the readers can add them (just once) when commenting or answering…
Imagine we can have a contest every week or month, “best Troll commentators of the Week, Month… even the Year!”
We can send them, the winners I mean, some kind of Certificate or Diploma that would surely help them in their sorry careers.
If the funds help, a ceremony Oscar-like would also help… but I think it that would be too much.
This is highly reminiscent of blogger DC Dave’s “Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression”, presciently posted back in 1999. Likewise a handy manual for aspiring trolls.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialEngineering/comments/b5ncr0/seventeen_techniques_for_truth_suppression_by/
Concerning the “Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression, 1999”: This is also very useful for recognizing trolls and propagandists. But why are there armies of trolls employed by a bloated burocracy and “think tanks” in the first place? The elites in a liberal democracy are very frightened of democracy. It is a threat to oligarchs, rent-seekers, monopolists and their instruments in the Congress and government. So historically they resort to manipulation and deception and they have become very adept at it. It is related to marketing, public relations and lobbying.
The US military uses sock puppet software with multiple (fake) identities, possibly with AI-assisted text generation, to influence social networks.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
This article is obviously directed to the kind of trolls Andrei gets in his blog.
I normally troll western mass media, mostly to irritate the readers that make idiot comments, sometimes also the journalist that wrote the article. Therefor, I use different technics, as friends that know me for years know.
I am sarcastic most of the time: I start to agree with the idiots and by the end of the comment, I do a pirouette to show the absurdity of their assumptions.
When this is well done , the trolled himself even likes my comment until he is warned by someone he has fallen into a trap of logical speech. And then they get angry, they insult me, they foam by their mouth and I, in response, keep in a good mood which irritates them even more.
Other times trolled people gets confused about how to interpret the way I twisted the opening part of the comment to reach opposite conclusions. And those ask for clarification. In these cases I say something like: ”I would gladly explain but if you didn’t understand the previous comment you won’t understand my explanation either.”
This, of course, is a fancy way of calling them stupid.
I avoid direct insults because I am mostly in hostile territory and I know I will easily be banned. There were times when I had this competition with myself: how many trolling comments could I make before getting banned?
Usually I could do it several dozen times before it happened. Today, however, it is difficult to reach these numbers because firstly I am already known by many trolls and moderators, secondly because I lost some of the patience I had.
Trolled people tend to repeat themselves in their reactions (they use all the same clichés and insults), which makes me roll my eyes and ask myself: do I really have to keep doing this? if only they were able to call me new ugly names…
Heavens, I hate all kinds of routines. 😎
I was going to post a list of the logical fallacies. However I eventually came to the realization that those who seek rational debate or are critical thinkers will already be familiar with them. For those who don’t it would be a pointless exercise. For those who would like to learn to fish go and discover what a logical fallacy is and how to best see through the bullshit some insist on shoveling. This doesn’t just apply to trolls. Politicians, ‘experts’, commentators and journalists all use logical fallacies because critical thinking in natiral language is no longer part of our general education. A degree in Philosophy is one of the few places it can be found in education and then the job opportunities for a philosopher are few and far between. Think tank ethicist perhaps…
Thank you Andrei. Your analysis was helpful for me and hopefully others who really enjoy reading your site’s content and were never sure why some of the comments seemed so peculiar.
I see now that I can’t be first or best. To do so would make me a troll. On the other hand, to be worst would make me appear to be an idiot. Or, to be last would mean that my post would likely be unread. Question: Can a system be developed that marks the particular message that falls right in the middle? That way, I can identify it and then only try to make mine a wee bit better, or a wee bit worse, but no more so!
Yes, you described a blog filtered by latest update.
Its an interesting social structure. Consumers of information come to the blog for value. Trolls are like bullies. They bully the blog to weaken it. Trolls demonstrates the very high impact of the information exchange. Hence, that is why it is called an information war.
What does ‘Russians’ mean? All Russians, such hat of oneRussian does something then another Russian cannot do something else? There are huge numbers of Russians, with different skills, doing different things, so pursuing a path in the UN does not detract from all other activities: Russians can walk, chew gum, and do a virutally limitless number of different things at the same time, on many different fronts.
Of course the UN and many other international organizations are dominated by the US empire, and that is well known, but Russia still has hopes the UN and such can be rehabilitated or reformed, and that they can play a vital role in improving the world, as well as enlightening people.
I think PCR is rather limited in his thinking and world view and does not consider all the possiblities and views — a common trait among ideologues. It’s similar to what Saker said about ‘planning’ military actions (or chess games) without considering all practically possible moves or positions — or, for that matter, thinking that war must be fought in only only one set manner, as if surrounding Kiev must have only the purpose of siezing and can’t serve just to tie up the other side and shape the theater of operations (which was one of the techniques taught in the chess strategies taught in KGB classes — ‘attack at a distance to divert attention and forces from the real intended target’).
But then, these attempts to limit attention and frame arguments runs through trolling too, as explained in in Saker’s post. Should one assume that Paul Craig Roberts and other politicians cannot engage in trolling?
“… Russia still has hopes the UN and such can be rehabilitated or reformed,…”
Nope! In legalese this is called: “Leaving a paper trail.”
So the UN will do what the UN is allowed to do, which is not much, but it will record Russia’s efforts to avert disaster and the refusal of other actors to cooperate in good faith.
IMHO Russia is doing much more than just complaining to the UN. They are not stupid to think that whining alone can stop the attacks.
Besides, Russians are notorious for not advertising their plans in detail.
Andrei, you are a funny man!
On a serious note, We Saker community should consider expanding the scope of comments by adding options to mark Like, Dislike, Agree, Disagree, Troll etc. like unz.
When I apply your primer ‘ lesson?’ rule , to problematic people I deal with , a perfect picture of their action to me appears. So Trools they. You nailed it. They are not just bloggers. And they to come to same path,in the same period , as something organic with totally unique odd behavior but happening at the same day. And then stopped the same day. How does this happen? Trolls, that’s what they do!
Couldn´t agree more with this diatribe vs the under-bridge-living trolls!
One wonders if these creatures are paid(77th Brigade, NSA or some other US State Polizei or even Unit 8200) or if they really are this “exceptional” for free, the first case is just the standard evil of the Anglozio mafia while the latter would be really sad… I mean, come on, if not the last 3 years showed them what´s going on then nothing will until their fluoridated brains get that clot..
“
There is only one way to defeat trolls.
Ignore them 100%
If you act like they don’t exist they become immaterial.
US Air Force psychological Operations is the primary generator of argument destruction trolling “sock puppets”. Also you’ll frequently find numerals in their names.
If you don’t respond at all they literally go away and return after formulating another approach.
If over time a board Increasingly ignores them – the board will collectively begin to fastidiously adopt the rejection behavior overall. We need to encourage everyone to do this. Using this approach it doesn’t take long until the farcical posts stand out like Purple Cows and their ability to trigger us dissipates. Just don’t respond. It might be better to leave them up but highlighted in a purple field. That’s how we can train ourselves to recognize and resist the bait. (Ai could be trained to highlight a post and leave a code as to type of troll attempt.)
Would you argue with a homeless person about the demons tormenting him knowing it will do no good?
It’s possible to defeat them this way. A questionable post? Like the first to respond in this queue? You can alert the board: “This is a troll do not respond” then say nothing more. You can laugh as the troll’s pants burn – watch him waste his time trying to rehabilitate himself – what else is a troll going to do but say “I am not a troll”.
Ignore them you’ll see their approach change. They literally will have high level meetings to devise new Trolling strategies. Imagine you tax dollars at work in the hands of these imbeciles diluting and suppressing your right to free speech.
I have trained boards in the past to do this to good effect. It works.
Disagree. Paid trolls don’t leave. No matter how many times they’re proved wrong, or humiliated. Because they’re paid.
If shown any type of negative response, they group together. Then they’ve become “organized.”
Assume what you’re saying is true, and that there are 10 trolls “trolling” a site. Then someone new comes to this site and sees nobody answering or “ignoring them” despite their stupid or outrageous comments.
So the newcomer leaves… because they read those comments and see that no one refutes them. Because they haven’t replaced their perceptions with yours yet. Now, the site has zero credibility.
Safest just to kick trolls out, without prejudice. They can find their “free speech fix” at any msm.
In my experience, trolls defend other trolls.
At first I found that article amusing, but as I read through, it got sadder.
An excellent article, a touch of satire with the truth to be found reading between the lines. Yet trolls or simply products of western indoctrination? It’s why many are abandoning an Orwell type mainstream newspeak and seeking an alternative reality based news source.
I have to admit, I’ve trolled in the past. But not against truth telling blogs like this one. I prefer turning the tables on real trolls. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is infested with them. I simply take apart their comments with facts. If they persist in their lies, I like to then publicly humiliate them. As the troll attempts more trollish insults against me, I counter with more true facts. Which then causes emotional outbursts and childish name calling. Winning!
I too have noticed the CBC is pretty bad regarding Russia and Ukraine-related material. It definitely twists facts for the sake of demonizing Russia, and to whitewash (and even idealize) the Ukraine and Ukrainians. I always assumed CBC assumes this posture because many Canadians are of West Ukrainian descent.
Did the CBC ever call out Chrystia Freeland about her conflict-of-interest in shaping Canada’s foreign policy? I don’t think they did, although I might be wrong.
Based on what you say, though, it appears CBC’s moderators at least permit you to argue the truth in their forums. Not all major English-language MSM permits posters to interfere with their anti-Russian propaganda message to the public. See my remarks on this page about my experience with WaPo.
Those of us who are unv——-ted are familiar with these disgusting troll tactics. The quickest way to be wrong is to support the official government narrative in any way shape or form. Why do some people believe that Western governments will be trustworthy regarding public health but untrustworthy regarding Ukraine or Taiwan? Extremely naive. And do we’re censored from blogs and comment sections.
Speaking of trolling, today the Washington Post banned me for seven days. I had just returned to their comments board following my last seven day banning, and only managed to post two comments before being suspended again.
Here’s my first comment that WaPo’s moderators found objectionable. it concerns Crimea’s history. My post was made in rebuttal to another poster’s claim that “the Crimean people are mostly Ukrainian,” and that “Crimean Ukrainians are waging a partisan war against Russian occupiers,” and that “Crimea has belonged to Ukraine for centuries.”
I replied by writing this:
”There are barely any Ukrainians living in the Crimea. Even between 1954 and 2014, less than 20% of Crimea’s population was Ukrainian.
”Russians have been the majority in Crimea since the late 1800s. By WW2, they formed the vast majority of its population.
”Russia also fought two huge, epic wars in the Crimea. The first was the Crimean War of 1854-46, against the British and French. The other was WW2, against the German Nazis and their allies.
”Ukraine has no historical connection to Crimea.”
Note that WaPo’s moderators deleted my Crimea comment twice. But they allowed the other person’s foolish comment (about Crimea being Ukrainian) to remain on the board.
The second comment I posted was a response to a WaPo article about “Big Tech” allegedly “quashing Russian propaganda.” The article claimed that “Russian propaganda” is oriented toward “spreading anti-Ukrainian hatred” in the West.
WaPo’s article stated:
”The tweet, and the tech platforms’ response, illustrate how Russian propaganda and anti-Ukrainian hate continues to spread on global social media platforms nearly six months into the war,,,”
I replied by saying this:
”That’s a very ironic statement from WaPo given the nature of the posts on its comments board. If anything, this media outlet appears to be whipping up lots of anti-Russian hatred.”
Needless to say, WaPo’s comments sections are flooded daily with hundreds of remarks spewing the most virulent, scathing, hateful sentiments about Russians. It’s unbelievable. I’m sure the folks on Saker’s blog are already aware of this WaPo problem. And yes, WaPo is deliberating encouraging this kind of primitive Russophobia.
Good luck on fighting trolls. You have the professionals in the pay of the UK or Ukraine governments and the individuals who are Zionist or pro LGBT and want to destroy your website because they disagree with your ideology. Wading thru the troll’s comments is irksome.
There is another very effective technique i call it “sliding”. With this technique:
1. You make a false statement that is the trolling theme.
2. Some honest dude tries to prove you wrong, sometimes doing good work giving links, facts etc
3. You DON”T answer to this topic but you change a little the theme but with the same subject. So it seems LIKE answering but actually you don’t. However, reader gets that sense that this is an ongoing debate with arguments
4. The honest dude does his homework and gets again facts against your new argument
5. You slide again changing the content, not answering again your honest opponent (and of course debate the facts)
6 You go on forever and many people bite that this is a real debate with arguments on both sides etc etc and maybe YOU are the right one
Yes, I have seen many of the trolling methods you have cataloged, especially the F!!rst P!!st derailment technique. These usually contain deliberately provocative statements; the intent was obviously to lure so many furious replies that the article’s arguments are completely drowned out.
Perhaps this site should display only the first few replies to a comment; a “show more replies” button would reveal the remaining replies if a reader wanted to see them. (Yes, this is what YouTube does; I hate to say something good of YouBeCensoredTube, but in this case what it does really works.)
Another feature I have asked for years ago. New comments should be displayed in a different color: if there are many comments, I won’t have to read them all again just to find the new ones.
Good info on the trolls Andrei. Their place is in the msm dark hole of lies and bullshit. Real people seek sources of true information here at the Saker. Many may base important decisions on it.
And there is no cover under the guise of “free speech” that allows deliberate disinformation to be a part of their childish mass hypnotism schemes. Yet not everyone recognizes who the trolls are, or their intentions. Or their not-so-subtle tradecraft of mass manipulation with word games.
Trolls don’t take themselves serious enough. And think their trolling efforts are worthy of a big laugh, while other people die. This type of psychotic behavior “is what it is,” and not wanted anywhere.
From reading the comments Re. trolling. It seems that no one can fully grasp how overwhelmingly fake comments generally are and the tools ((they)) have at their disposal to derail dissent.
Do a search for “sock puppets propaganda”
Companies like Recorded Future read all publications Worldwide in real time in nearly every language to identify targeted agendas in need of suppression or redirection. Secondary companies then manage the “noted” information crisis.
Eg. A caterpillar dozer brake fails and dozer drives through a nursery school in China.
First the event is noted in Chinese press.
Secondary actors front run this and devise press releases and troll comments redirecting the blame.
Massive Caterpillar related posts are dumped pushing an inquiry about this events Down below the 3rd page.
When they’re done the story will be the “dozer operator had a heart attack” and in consolation Caterpillar will build 3 nursery school in China.
This whole process can take 1.5 hrs and when it’s done Caterpillar smells better than ever.
You can apply the same process to malignant governmental actions. If an article on Saker gets hot is shared a bunch – the same type of activities will be used here and elsewhere to suppress its sharing. The goal is to nip things in the bud – that’s why it’s important to ignore trolls 100%.
If a comment does not move cognition forward but retards or regresses momentum you’re 100% dealing with a troll.
The goal is break the synergy of like mindedness and disrupt the train of thought.
Front running as in the example above is the best way to achieve derailment. That’s why the first post is almost 100% fake. If the first post is brilliant and provocative it’s sets the tenor for the whole thread. They know this and that’s why it’s a priority for them.
It would be smart to give your best commenters the opportunity to make eloquent insightful Initial posts prior to posting the article. This will inflame those who seek to destroy our right of free speech.
Ultimately? The only way to win is to train the board to ignore them.
Hey, doesn’t that face look like Pepe Escobar? Love the smile.
lol …………… Thank you!!!
Yep, trolls area blast. I mostly ignore them now. No sense in discussing with them, that is not why they appear.
Thank you Andrei.
Nice summary.
Take a stroll with a troll.
Isn’t Western mainstream media the 24 / 7 troll farm of whatever is deemed not to their liking or interests?
Mainstream media personalities delivering the pre-prepared scripts with well practiced sincerity?
Then there’s Philip Cross, WikiPedia Editor Extraordinaire.
And the gold standard question. Why does Wiki management not reverse out Philip Cross’s edits?
Rarely have I seen such an improved description of trolling. Congratulations!
> Rule number one: always make sure
This rule execution is somewhat hard to do on flat forum like Unz – you posted too slow, you lost the slot – but is easier in tree forums like here.
Watch whoever scores the first/topmost comment – then reply to him. Make jis topmost comment anchor for your one.
Simple and practical.
Here, here. Certainly a worthy life-aspiration to have. Glad y’all got a handle on that https attack. Onward in solidarity.
It appears that Zelensky himself lead the cover raid on the Saki airbase, making Putin rage so hard he accidentally killed one of his handmaidens.
Brilliant! Thank you!
This is important very much for the honest person who replies! It actually helps in more relevant replies as I look at informed replies for information as well!
You almost wrote a complete updated list of Arthur Schopenhauer’s list of rules on how to win a discussion having no reason at all. So I recomend the aspiring trolls to read the small Schopenhauer book to become more educated on how to be a troll. And everybody else to eeconuze these techniques that are sadly very used in face to face discussions
I read this with some amusement.
I use some of these troll tricks in my efforts to get my message across. However I do not consider myself a troll. I am an antitroll.
I also run my own blog and sometimes have to remove real trolls from it.